Plug a tire or replace it?

July 1, 2008

After checking my tire's air pressure yesterday I noticed my rear tire was low, so I aired it back up to 40 psi, checked for nails, but didn't find anything wrong with it. After riding home from work today and letting it sit for an hour, I checked it again and it was down two pounds. So I looked it over real good and noticed a little nail in the groove of a tread. Since my tires are Metzler Sportec M1's with only 2,000 miles on them, I'm wondering what you guys would do. I was thinking about taking it to the dealer for a plug or a patch, but my wife thinks I should just replace it. If I remember right the rear tire was over $200 with mounting and balancing, so this tiny nail could be costly. Am I just a cheapskate, or is my wife right, as usual?

July 1, 2008

Your dealer may refuse to patch it for liability reasons (read: wants to sell you a new tire) but otherwise if it's done properly then it should be perfectly OK for the life of the tire.

Man, a lot of contentious threads lately. Finally a topic where there won't be a lot of controversy...

July 1, 2008

What concerns me is that I have been known to ride above 80 mph and wonder how safe a plug/patch would be at those speeds and above? I have also taken my RT to racing school at Infinion Raceway and realize the abuse a tire gets on the track might be more than a plug/patch could endure. You might be right about the dealer wanting to sell me a new tire, at least that would make my wife happy.

July 1, 2008

Finally a topic where there won't be a lot of controversy...

I disagree. I think there will be much controversy! :dopeslap:

To the OP:

It all depends on your comfort level and where you choose to take risks. Many will say plugging is fine. More will say a combination plug/patch applied from the inside of the tire is better.

I personally replace mine as soon as practical after a flat. I'm comfortable with my choice.

July 1, 2008

1 up,,Plug It,,2 up,,Replace It,,,,,I have pluged tires for over 40 years,,Never had a problem,,,

July 1, 2008

I would plug it, patch it, and ride it till it wears out. I have done this with at least 2 or 3 tires over the years and never had a problem but that is just me. Side wall damage: forgetaboutit.

July 1, 2008

Smiller has it right ... no plugs ... a patch alone done from the inside will last the life of the tire if used within its normal operating range - i.e. unless you're on an "M" speed rated tire 80+ ain't going to be a problem. I patched a Z6 rear at 500 miles and I'm pretty sure I managed more than 80 mph during its lifetime of over 6000 miles. :grin:

July 1, 2008

I'm not from Earth.....I wouldn't ride around the block with Mrs. Whip on the back of a bike with a patched tire unless I had to.

Again....I ain't normal.

Mrs. Whip's biggest fan and guardian.

July 1, 2008

I'm not from Earth.....I wouldn't ride around the block with Mrs. Whip on the back of a bike with a patched tire unless I had to.

Mrs. Whip's biggest fan and guardian.

++++++111111!!!!!!

Let's see. Ten's of thousands dollars in hospital bills, or a two hundered dollar tire. :dopeslap:

No matter how you look at it, it ain't worth the risk.

July 1, 2008

I feel safe with plugged tires but I always specify the type of plug in the picture (3rd one down) on this page. http://www.i-car.com/html_pages/technical_information/advantage/advantage_online_archives/2003/040703.shtml

I repaireda front 880 that only had 200 miles on it and it lasted over 9000 more with no abnormal air loss.

Rich

July 1, 2008

In all honesty, I'll say this.

A year & a half ago, The Wife & I were in Helen, Ga. The morning we were to leave for home, I found the rear tire to be flat, caused by a nail embedded in the tire.

I utilized my recently acquired Dyna Plug kit, along with my Wal_Mart pump, & we were on our way.

Four hundred miles later, & after numerous stops to check it, we were home safe & sound.

The next morning I geared up for the commute to work only to find...you guessed it...a flat rear tire.

The moral of this story is, if you're in a pinch, do what you have to do. Otherwise, replace the tire.

July 1, 2008

Hi,

Actually there is a repair that's called a plug/patch,combines both into one application.That's the best way to do it.

I have also had great success using the gooey rope type plugs available at any auto parts store.

JR356

July 1, 2008

If you have to ask, replace it.

July 1, 2008

It hurts but... replace the tyre.

I think a lot of us have faced this decision. We know that a plugged or patched tyre will probably last the life of the tyre but it's the "what if" that bothers most of us.

July 1, 2008

In the UK a dealer would not repair a Z-rated tyre because the British Standards Institute has declared that there is no way to repair the tyre to its original specification (speed/load rating). Lower rated tyres all have approved repair techniques.

That does not mean that a repair would not be airtight for the rest of the life of the tyre. I have no problems plugging/patching a tyre as a get-you-home measure but, given the above information, I always replace the tyre.

I have had many rear-tyre punctures and the deflation has always been slow and controlled, with no real danger to the rider under normal traffic speeds. What concerns me is what if there is hidden damage which later results in sudden defalation.

In the end it is up to your level of comfort with the admittedly small increase in risk, vs a relatively small fiscal outlay.

Andy

July 1, 2008

I'm not from Earth.....I wouldn't ride around the block with Mrs. Whip on the back of a bike with a patched tire unless I had to.

+1 :thumbsup: Kinda puts it in perspective...

Last week,several of us "locals" went out for a day ride. Brad (tobyzusa) told us how he had to replace a brand new rear tire because it had taken a nail. I don't remember him even mentioning not replacing it right away; he just did it.

I do remember thinking I was lucky; I'd never had a flat on a "newer" tire.

You guessed it; turning down my street on the way home that same day I had a (rear tire) flat. It was the first day on that tire.

Hemmed & hawed, talked to several of you & pretty much decided to "plug & patch".

Had the tire off the rim when Joyce, my best friend & partner since age 17 came out to the garage with a cold drink & mentioned she sure hoped her neck would get better soon so we could take a few days on the bike.

Guess what my first thought was?

Went out this past weekend & "scrubbed" in another new tire.

July 1, 2008

I've plugged tires without problems. Will continue to do so...yup I'm also a skin-flint.

July 1, 2008

One can base this decision on logic or on emotion. Nothing wrong with either but it is worth noting the difference.

I certainly wouldn't try to convince anyone to do anything that they're not comfortable with, but in terms of hard facts... countless tires are repaired every day so where is the carnage? In fact I don't know of a single first-hand case of a properly-repaired motorcycle tire causing an injury, much less some hidden cord damage causing the tire to explode in later life. In fact all real-world evidence would point to the likelihood of a properly-repaired (not a hack job) tire failing and causing an accident to be vanishingly small.

And as to the 'any chance is still too high' argument, there is indeed a one in a zillion chance of something like that occurring because there is a one in a zillion chance of just about anything happening, but one has to factor the magnitude of a risk in there as well as the consequences. Otherwise I wonder why someone with that mindset would put themselves (or their wife) on a motorcycle at all. The very act of riding is nothing but an exercise in calculated risk management (and the odds of an accident from a properly repaired tire are probably a lot less than accidents from any number of other sources.)

Again, just one way of looking at it but do whatever you're comfortable with...

July 1, 2008

Seth, I think you're probably right about the risks of plugging and the probable outcome. Nice job with the logical justification for plugging. But in the end, it's still an emotional question: do you trust the plugged tire?

In my experience, people who are of one mind about this don't ask. They just go plug the tire and ride on happily. It's the people who have doubts that ask and I think they will always have doubts even if they're convinced that the objective risk is acceptably small.

It's not that a plugged tire is an accident waiting to happen, but that a plugged tire, for some, is a worry where there should not be one. Sometimes replacing the tire is the only way to get peace of mind.

July 1, 2008

It's not that a plugged tire is an accident waiting to happen, but that a plugged tire, for some, is a worry where there should not be one. Sometimes replacing the tire is the only way to get peace of mind.

I agree completely. Human perception of risk is always interesting though, and can lead one to consider the (easily demonstrated and rather high) risk of riding a motorcycle to be acceptable where another comparatively minute risk becomes of great concern. Such an act seems to be pretty clearly emotionally driven, but yes, if that's what it takes to make a ride enjoyable then so be it...

July 1, 2008

It's sorta like ATGATT. How much risk is one willing to add on top of the risk of riding a motorcycle in the first place.

July 1, 2008

It's sorta like ATGATT.

The difference in how the two affect the magnitude of risk is not even remotely the same. One is demonstrably significant, the other the reverse.

July 1, 2008

It's sorta like ATGATT.

The difference in how the two affect the magnitude of risk is not even remotely the same. One is demonstrably significant, the other the reverse.

The point isn't the magnitude. Its the fact that in both cases, whatever additional risk is assumed is added on top of the risk already assumed.

In my experience, I have seen both plugs and patches fail. I have also seen radial belts fail after having slice type punctures patched.

July 1, 2008

The point isn't the magnitude.

The point is that (in a purely rational examination) it should be.

Anyway, to each his own.

July 1, 2008

The point isn't the magnitude.

The point is that (in a purely rational examination) it should be.

Anyway, to each his own.

when one has a board that will snap with 20.01 pounds on it and there are currently 20 pounds on it, it makes no difference to the board whether an additional 0.02 pound snaps it or an additional 100 pounds snaps it.

As you say, it comes down to what one is comfortable with.

July 1, 2008

when one has a board that will snap with 20.01 pounds on it and there are currently 20 pounds on it, it makes no difference to the board whether an additional 0.02 pound snaps it or an additional 100 pounds snaps it.

Aw c'mon, you have got to know how flawed that analogy is...

July 1, 2008

I'd plug/patch a car tire, but not a bike tire. I'm much more comfortable with a new tire on a bike and to me the cost is not an issue in that circumstance.

July 1, 2008

I've got an idea: You get a new tire, then send the old one to me. I'll pay for shipping. I'll put a plug in it and run it another 7000 miles or so....

July 1, 2008

when one has a board that will snap with 20.01 pounds on it and there are currently 20 pounds on it, it makes no difference to the board whether an additional 0.02 pound snaps it or an additional 100 pounds snaps it.

Aw c'mon, you have got to know how flawed that analogy is...

You may believe the analogy to be flawed, but isn't that how many people determine the risk they are comfortable with. Pile it on to a certain level, then no more???

July 1, 2008

Pile it on to a certain level, then no more???

Michael, I'm only responding to your posts and trying to explain the difference between objective reality and subjective feeling. If that exercise troubles you I apologize. With regard to others, I've said several times already that everyone should do whatever they are comfortable with.

July 1, 2008

You've been doing this long enough to know that there is no place for objective reality in motorcycling.

July 1, 2008

As a charter member of the more money than brains club, I decided to get all new tires. I dropped it off at my local BMW dealership and had them put on a new set of Michelin Pilot Power tires. After the work was completed, I took my bike up Mount Tamalpais along the old Fairfax-Bolinas stagecoach road, and they felt real good. Has anyone here rode up there?

Now let's hear how bad my tire choice was............

July 2, 2008

As a charter member of the more money than brains club, I decided to get all new tires. I dropped it off at my local BMW dealership and had them put on a new set of Michelin Pilot Power tires. After the work was completed, I took my bike up Mount Tamalpais along the old Fairfax-Bolinas stagecoach road, and they felt real good. Has anyone here rode up there?
Now let's hear how bad my tire choice was............

Your tire choice is horrible...... Now give 'em to me :grin:

My plug vs non-plug boils down to my wife. If she pillions, then we go with the new tire, not the plug.

My life isn't as valuable to me as hers is to me.

July 2, 2008

I'm not from Earth.....I wouldn't ride around the block with Mrs. Whip on the back of a bike with a patched tire unless I had to.

Mrs. Whip's biggest fan and guardian.

++++++111111!!!!!!

Let's see. Ten's of thousands dollars in hospital bills, or a two hundered dollar tire.

No matter how you look at it, it ain't worth the risk.

That argument is only valid if the plugged tire is more likely to fail.

July 2, 2008

That argument is only valid if the plugged tire is more likely to fail.

But Russell, don't you love your wife..? Surely that must have something to do with the likelihood of a failure...

July 2, 2008

I'd like for someone to tell me the process by which a patched tire is gonna fail? What happens to that patch? That has 40 PSI of air pressing it against that tiny little nail hole, plus the adhesive? With nothing scraping against it? No gremlins prying it loose with little chisels? I'd really like to know whats causing this mass carnage of motorcycle riders. I know we've all lost a riding buddy or 2 to the "failed patch syndrome". Now, it's time to say, "enough" !....WHY is this happening??? :cry:

July 2, 2008

Dumb question: Where does one go (in NorCal) to get an inside-the-tire patch? I don't know how to do it, and the nearest BMW dealer says that their insurance won't let 'em. TIA.

July 2, 2008

Try other bike shops or try a regular(auto)tire dealer.

I'd still recommend the plug/patch repair.

Maybe a forum member is close that has tire equipment.

JR356

July 2, 2008

what JR356 said.

July 2, 2008

That argument is only valid if the plugged tire is more likely to fail.

But Russell, don't you love your wife..? Surely that must have something to do with the likelihood of a failure...

:grin:

Any logic or data aside...if it makes you uncomfortable, don't do it. If you feel better about throwing away a tire rather than riding on a patched tire, then go for it...it's your life, your money, and your mental health.

This whole "tires are cheap, hospital bills are expensive" argument is either a rationalization of people's own personal fears/preferences, or it's the old standard "if it is more expensive, it MUST be better."

July 2, 2008

I tried the local tire shop in my area where my friend works and he told me they can't repair motorcycle tires. Since the tire had less than a thousand miles left and BMW charges $60 in labor to remove, balance, and replace a tire, I figured it made more sense to have them put on new tires. And people are right, I do feel better charging the back roads on new tires rather than riding on worn out tires with a patch/plug in one.................

July 2, 2008

Since the tire had less than a thousand miles left

Even I wouldn't bother with a tire with less than 1,000 miles left, I think the issue is more about tires with 12,000 miles left. But I'd agree that if you're going to pay a dealer full shop rate to demount, repair, and mount then the effort may not be cost effective under those circumstances even outside of any risk considerations.

Anyway, I think there's a good solution to the dilemma. I kind of like the idea proposed by some wherein those who get a simple puncture in a new tire should send it to others who will use it. Saves the environment, neither will have an accident, and one gets free tires forever. It's all good... :grin:

July 2, 2008

Anyway, I think there's a good solution to the dilemma. I kind of like the idea proposed by some wherein those who get a simple puncture in a new tire should send it to others who will use it. Saves the environment, neither will have an accident, and one gets free tires forever. It's all good...

I'll be happy to sell you any of mine that I remove due to punctures at a price prorated on the life expectancy of the tire. In addition, if I have plugged or patched the tire, I will add a small surcharge for the value added! :grin:

Oh, and don't forget that shipping and handling fees will be applied....

July 2, 2008

I'll be happy to sell you any of mine that I remove due to punctures at a price prorated on the life expectancy of the tire.

Sell? But I thought that there was no safe life expectancy remaining in a punctured tire. You would actually collect money for an unsafe product? Cold, cold... :grin:

July 2, 2008

Value is in the eye of the buyer.... :grin:

Oh, and I'm sure I could sell your next of kin a life insurance policy in your name just in case.... :dopeslap:

July 2, 2008

I sure miss Gleno on this one....

You guys could spend all day analyzing a hair cut....

I'll send all my plugged tires to Torrey, ya'll can have em....

I bet the people that need tires take the more worn out unplugged ones.

Whip

July 2, 2008

As a charter member of the more money than brains club, I decided to get all new tires. I dropped it off at my local BMW dealership and had them put on a new set of Michelin Pilot Power tires. After the work was completed, I took my bike up Mount Tamalpais along the old Fairfax-Bolinas stagecoach road, and they felt real good. Has anyone here rode up there?
Now let's hear how bad my tire choice was............

Yes, I love that road. Not to get off topic, but how do you like those PPs compared to the OEM tires? I run them on my gsxr, and love them. Do you have the standard road, or the C2C's?

July 2, 2008

As a charter member of the more money than brains club, I decided to get all new tires. I dropped it off at my local BMW dealership and had them put on a new set of Michelin Pilot Power tires. After the work was completed, I took my bike up Mount Tamalpais along the old Fairfax-Bolinas stagecoach road, and they felt real good. Has anyone here rode up there?
Now let's hear how bad my tire choice was............

Yes, I love that road. Not to get off topic, but how do you like those PPs compared to the OEM tires? I run them on my gsxr, and love them. Do you have the standard road, or the C2C's?

I replaced my stock Metzler Z6's with Metzler Sportec M1's for a racing lesson at Infinion Raceway and thought those handled pretty good. The tires I was advised to buy this time were the Michelin Pilot Power, which are a step below the Pilot Power 2CT, that doesn't come in my rear tire size anyway. I checked online at the Michelin website and they are very similar with the Pilot Power scoring one star better for commuting and the 2CT scoring one star better for the track. I feel they are a step up from my Metzler Sprotec M1's though, and ripping up Mount Tam and out to the beach felt really good. Have you ever rode the Sunday Morning Ride from Tam Junction? Now that can be a handful sometimes with too many hot dog riders.

July 3, 2008

WHAT? Nobody here saw the study done by Motorcycle Consumer News a few years back on plugging m/c tires? I'm shocked :grin:

The major factor that sealed the deal for me: the photo they showed of a plugged tire that delaminated. They found that once compromised the steelbelt just falls apart. Not something I want to think about at speed.

Of course I picked up a drywall screw in a new Metzler shortly after I saw the photo. This must only happen in new tires- a Murphy thing. Seems everybody is comfortable with their choices but I wanted to put that out there.

July 3, 2008

Have you ever seen a photo of a plane crash?

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Plug a tire or replace it?

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