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Sargent seat owners, R1200RT only


markgoodrich

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markgoodrich

I like my Sargent, but have been having a hassle with it, which Sargent says they've seen one other time. I'd like to hear from other Sargent owners ONLY if they've experienced the same problem. Please, if your Sargent is perfect, or you have a Russell, no offense, but please move along, there's nothing to see here.

 

On the high position the seat, after a short while in the saddle will "drop" from the high stop to the low...step down, if you will, creating an uncomfortable seating position. The front edge of the seat moves way up at the same time. I weigh about 195, did not have this problem with the OEM seat or the previous custom seat. Given that the seat pans are all made at the same plant, to the same specs, this is a curious issue, if in fact only two riders have experienced it. Sargent's being pretty good about it, although I balked at sending them my seat. Their "field solution" is to stick some dual lock in the front cups which fit around the rubber bumpers that adjust up and down for the high/low setting. I'm trying that, but am a little dubious about the permanence of the solution, if in fact it is one.

 

So please, if you've had your seat step down at the rear, when in the high position, please reply.

 

Here you can see how high the front is pushed up when the stops "step" down, distorting the entire seat pan.

 

th_IMG_1584.jpg

 

And here's the Sargent in the high postion, properly seated on the high "step" in the back. I also wonder if other owners' seats sit so high in the front...note the front edge is at least an inch higher than the edge of the gas tank.

 

th_IMG_1583.jpg

 

 

Thanks in advance for your replies. Sargent will be very interested to know if others are experiencing this issue. They were unable to replicate it at their shop with a borrowed bike.

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My Sargent does not sit that high in the front in the high position. It is almost as if the front seat bracket is not fully engaged in the high position.

My problem is getting the seat to fit into rear support saddles. on either low or high position, factory or Sargent seat.

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  • 3 months later...

I had a custom seat built using the stock pan, and now it's doing the same thing. After hitting a large bump in the road, the back drops down to the lower adjustment level.

 

When the seat is mounted, there seems to be about 1/4" play back and forth.

 

Did the dual lock solution fix your issue?

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Yes, it did solve it. It's been quite a while and lots of miles now, and one side of the dual lock has come off, once, but I stuck it back on before it got lost. Reminds me that I need to "design" a permanent solution, something as thick and flexible, that I can use some epoxy on.

 

Also reminds me that I should harass Sargent a little bit, to get THEM to come up with a better solution; the Dual lock gaa-luuuuue can't take the pressure from on/off of the seat forever.

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Can you take a moment and tell us what "Dual Lock" is in this case?

 

It's like velcro, only orders of magnitude stronger. I use it for semi-permenent installation of a variety of things. Sargent suggested using it in the curved part of the seat pan which fits onto the rubber seat-height adjuster, to act as a spacer. I simply peeled the back off one "side" and stuck it up in that curved area, and left the backing on the other "side" which I attached (think the two sides of velcro) to the stuck-on piece, effective creating a spacer that was just enough to push the seat back where it belongs. I really need to find a more permanent solution, something that thick, and that flexible, I can use some expoxy on, but it's out of sight, out of mind. I've only had to replace the stuff on one side, once, after months and thousands of miles; the frequent removal of the seat to get at fiddly electronics or tools caused one side of the stuff to slip off...the glue didn't hold.

 

I used it to attach a little Lexan shelf I made for my XM/Ipod/what-have-you, a year and a half ago. The Dual Lock has held up through more than 20,000 miles and torrential rains. I'll attach a link HERE which shows the Dual Lock and the velcro...the velcro is for attaching the XM or ipod...much easier to separate.

 

Lemmeknow if this doesn't make sense....

 

EDIT: Dual Lock is available at Target or Aerostich and lots of other places. Aerostich's price is astronomical. Do NOT ask at Target or anywhere for that matter, where the Dual Lock is; ask for the Velcro; they'll recognize that, and the Dual Lock is right next to it.

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Mark,

 

I got my seat on 8/29 this past Friday and upon getting the Sargent on the RT, it does exactly what you have described. The seat, in highest position, eventually drops down into the lower slot at the rear, exactly as pictured in your photos. I am not happy at all with this situation and will be calling Sargent tomorrow after the Labor Day holiday to see what they say. I purchased the seat from RL Motorcycles in Georgia, an authorized Sargent dealer, so my warranty is in effect.

 

 

If you could take a picture of your Velcro solution, that would be helpful if I need to go that route. Thanks!

 

Chris

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Well, like usual I didnt listen when you said Sargeant owners only, but I'm glad I didnt!

 

My seat was rebuilt by Bill Mayer just prior to my departure for my annual roadtrip. After about 1500 miles, I noticed that either my windscreen was getting taller or my seat was getting lower. I also noticed the seat setting as in your picture above. I just deat with it till I got home and figured I would take it up with Rocky mayer when I got back.

 

I applied the dual lock as you described and that, at least temperarily, solved the problem. I will still talk to Rocky and try to have him fix it permanantly.

 

Thanks for posting the solution!!

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What you're looking at is the "back" side of an unpeeled piece of Dual Lock...the peel-off lining is left in place to keep the sticky surface from adhering to the rubber bumper on the seat height adjuster.

 

Very interesting that the same problem is occurring with OEM pans.

 

I dealt with Rudy at Sargent; the more people who contact him, the more likely it will be that they come up with a permanent solution. It's my opinion that the pans flex, allowing just enough movement to have the rear "feet" jump down to the low position.

 

IMG_1704-1.jpg

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I'm thinking that the pan was somehow reshaped during the reupolstery process. I noticed on the first day after recieving it from Bill mayer's that when in the low position it was extreemely loose and in the high position no sloppyness was apparent. Somehow the distance from the front mounting points and the rear was reduced. I can only immagine that the pan must have more curve to it, therefore causing the problem. How that happenend, I dont know...

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I went to my local hardware store and bought two "extra thick" 1/8" rubber fender washers and stuck one in each of the curve thingies of the seat pan with 3M heavy duty industrial double stick adhesive tape. So far, so good. The fore and aft play that was apparent before is now gone. Only time will tell if it's a permanent solution.

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I went to my local hardware store and bought two "extra thick" 1/8" rubber fender washers and stuck one in each of the curve thingies of the seat pan with 3M heavy duty industrial double stick adhesive tape. So far, so good. The fore and aft play that was apparent before is now gone. Only time will tell if it's a permanent solution.

 

Ah, good idea, I was going to go to the hardware store tomorrow and try to find something. The rubber is a great solution.

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Update on my situation:

 

I called Sargent this morning and got a gentleman by the name of Mark in R and D and described to him my problem. He said that they were aware of the problem with some bikes. They have replicated the problem on some RTs, but not others. Their solution is this: They are sending out a spacer that supposedly eliminates the shifting of the pan against the rubber risers in the front, thus keeping the back rubber pads from dropping into the lower slot. He said I should receive the part in about a day or so. Will update with the results when I get it installed.

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Mark (and other Sargent R1200RT seat owners...

 

Got the spacer kit from Sargent today and installed it... works great and all seems to be good. Rode the bike from work to lunch and back and it seems to be doing the trick. Anyone interested in pics I can take a few to show what they send and how it is working out. Thanks!

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Mark,

 

Did not post a photo as I wanted to see if the solution from Sargent actually stuck... well it did not. Seat compressed the foam spacers to the point that they were rendered totally useless. So, I tried your approach and used the Dual Lock tape from 3M and that seems to really be working.

 

What bothers me is that for the rep at Sargent to say that they have only had a handful of these reports from RT owners they sure have put together a nice one sheet diagram to work out their "solution", lends me to think they have a real issue with their pan design. Shame it doesn't work. I actually think that they may have scaled down the seat pan for the RT just enough that the looseness is built in, appearing on more RTs than they would care to admit... I think that more people are just using the low setting and not noticing the drop from the upper notch to the lower notch. I will still call them on Monday and report my findings after their kit did not work and that your solution seems to be working out so far. It is good to the point that I had a time getting the seat to even fit in the upper bracket because of the Dual Lock tape really grabbing the front brackets (I put a good portion of strip up there).

 

Their 30 Day return policy is in effect so that will give me ample enough time to see if I have any more issues with the fitment of the seat (I hope).

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Mark,

 

Did not post a photo as I wanted to see if the solution from Sargent actually stuck... well it did not. Seat compressed the foam spacers to the point that they were rendered totally useless. So, I tried your approach and used the Dual Lock tape from 3M and that seems to really be working.

 

What bothers me is that for the rep at Sargent to say that they have only had a handful of these reports from RT owners they sure have put together a nice one sheet diagram to work out their "solution", lends me to think they have a real issue with their pan design. Shame it doesn't work. I actually think that they may have scaled down the seat pan for the RT just enough that the looseness is built in, appearing on more RTs than they would care to admit... I think that more people are just using the low setting and not noticing the drop from the upper notch to the lower notch. I will still call them on Monday and report my findings after their kit did not work and that your solution seems to be working out so far. It is good to the point that I had a time getting the seat to even fit in the upper bracket because of the Dual Lock tape really grabbing the front brackets (I put a good portion of strip up there).

 

Their 30 Day return policy is in effect so that will give me ample enough time to see if I have any more issues with the fitment of the seat (I hope).

 

Chris, "my" solution came from Sargent. I'd like something a little more permanent, and I'm confident I'll come up with something if Sargent doesn't. I'd like to clarify that I think the company has been responsive to my issue, and the seat is very comfortable. I routinely recommend the company's seats to lots of different bike riders...this is my second Sargent seat on two very different bikes.

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Lone_RT_rider

This is an interesting thread to me. Both Huzband and myself are experiencing the same issue with the stock factory seat pans with the stock seats (not reworked by Sargent) in the high position. I suspect that there is a combination of two factors causing this issue.

 

1. There is too much flex in the seat pan, maybe the situation is event worse for "larger" riders like me?

 

2. I believe that seat pan isn't long enough to account for the extra flex in the seat. I have both a low and a regular seat and this condition is especially exaggerated in the low seat. When you put the seat on the bike there is quite literally between 1/4" and 1/2" of gap between the rubber mount on the seat and the plastic mount point on the bike.

 

I really think this is a design flaw by the factory seat manufacturer. My guess is something like the dual lock solution is going to be the best way to deal with it. I have tried 1" single sided sticky foam window insulation and that just breaks down over time.

 

Shawn

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I went to my local hardware store and bought two "extra thick" 1/8" rubber fender washers and stuck one in each of the curve thingies of the seat pan with 3M heavy duty industrial double stick adhesive tape. So far, so good. The fore and aft play that was apparent before is now gone. Only time will tell if it's a permanent solution.

 

I've put about 200 miles on the bike since I added the rubber washers, and so far it's working. I'm @250lbs w/gear, and I've gone over some serious bumps and railroad crossings to give it a good test. At $.92 each, give them a try! The rubber is really pretty dense, so they're not likely to compress over time.

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Shawn,

 

Now that is the first time I have heard that... wow. I never had any problem with the stock seat on my 06. I had the regular height seat and I weigh 225 lbs, and the seat was always in the higher position. I am beginning to think that it may not be just the seat pan, but maybe the mounting points on the chassis... somehow a variation in the front bracket location to the back slot location... just enough for it make the difference? That actually may reinforce the statement from Mark at Sargent when he told me that they have had two RTs in and put the same seat on one bike, it fits tight and on the other it will drop down after a short ride on it. Any thoughts on that? Or could it be a different supplier for the seat pan from Berlin (in your case) from model year to year?

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Folks I sent a link to this thread to Sargent over the weekend, and got an immediate reply from Mark Todd, the president of the company, which I'll paste below. It's refreshing to have the head guy at a company respond to a query, especially in such a positive manner.

 

His email address is mark"at"sargentcycle.com.

 

Jason forwarded your email – thanks!

 

 

 

We need all the input we can get on this because we are still trying to solve this baffling issue.

 

 

 

As a point of fact, after many hundreds of R12RT seat sales, we have only had handful customers (perhaps five or six) that have approach us with this issue since the release of seat. This makes us believe that it is somehow very isolated, affecting only certain bikes – perhaps some sort of frame tolerance/manufacturing issue.

 

 

 

During our last hands on investigation, we noted that the same seat (modified with a rubber spacer) fits beautify (with no play), on one RT, but cannot even be installed on another – the added spacer preventing it from going on. In addition, as noted on the forum, it appears that some OEM seat/bike combinations are experiencing the same issue.

 

 

 

Re: History and test solutions-

 

For the first few incidents we simply sent out 3M Dual Lock “heavy duty double stick Velcro” with a verbal description of where to apply. While Dual Lock is not intended to be used as a spacer, as far as we can tell this approach was successful. For the last two gentlemen with the problem, we decided to create a “more professional kit” using rubber pad with pressure sensitive tape with instructions, including instructions to serve as a future solution as this issues arises.

 

 

 

From the posting I read, it sounds like the new rubber w/PSA solution, being not as dense as the Dual Lock, while thicker, is experiencing too much “compression set” over time, therefore not a good answer. If this is the case, we need to re-assess this material, but at this point we believe that this solution “in concept” is the best answer to the problem.

 

 

 

As an alternative, a universal base pan mold modification, while possible, would only result in more seats not fitting the unaffected bikes. We toyed with sending the “spacer kit” our to all future R12RT customers, with a “use if needed statement”, but because this seems to be so isolated, and we are still perfecting it, have not yet decided to do so.

 

 

 

This is a very baffling and frustrating issue for us, and we appreciate any customer feedback in this regard. I would encourage customers to report there findings and experiences directly to us so that we can make proper adjustments and work toward a solution.

 

 

 

Please feel free to post these comments to any message board as we are not always allowed to participate (or feel comfortable) as a vendor. Customers should direct inquiries or comments regarding this issue to Mary Pestalitz (R&D) at 1-800-749-7328. Also she is copied above.

 

 

 

Thanks for all of your valuable input on this issue. With everyone’s help, I’m confident we will find a solution!

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

 

 

Mark Todd

 

President

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

My stock seat pan feels like its bending when more weight is applied. If enough weight is applied,my seat will allow the rear rubber bumpers to pull foreward enough to allow them to drop into the low position. It seems to me that the seat is suspended between the front and rear mounting points and when weight is applied, the pan flexes/bends causiing the two support points to draw closer together. Maybe installing a support midway between the span would be a solution. For instance, two rubber/poly bumpers screwed to the seat pan midpoint, contacting the frame and therefore eliminating this flex. My .02

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3Putt, when you said the "new" fix-it kit, do you mean they told you they've come up with a new, second attempt to solve the problem? The first attempt, which I think roadwolf tried, was foam which was to compressible. They sent me that kit, but I haven't put it on the bike. If they've got a better solution, I want to call them.

 

Thanks.

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Mary said they just came up the "solution" today. She said I'd have to drill a small hole in the seat pan (where you put the duel lock) and install a rubber bumper.

 

She said they've been trying lots of things and they think this is the one that works. We'll see.

 

Try duct tape on the bumpers like I did. I put so much on there that it takes some force to push the seat cups onto the bumpers, but like I said, it feels like it's bolted on.

 

I'm thinking the duct tape adhesive won't last very long in the heat here in Texas, especially right above the engine. My dual lock works, but eventually the galoooooo will also give way. I'll contact Sargent.

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  • 3 weeks later...
markgoodrich
Update: I got the new "fix-it" kit last week and tried it. I was instructed to drill a small hole in the pan and then insert a supplied bumper. Even after drilling a larger hole than they said, I couldn't install the bumper and ended up ruining it. It was the equivalent of trying to put 10# of **** in a 5# bag, as the saying goes. I got frustrated and gave up.

 

I sent the seat back and was refunded 100% of the purchase price. The restocking fee was waived. They were very easy to deal with.

 

Yikes. Well, I guess I'll just leave the dual lock in place. it's worked okay for thousands of miles.

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I'm sure the more mechanically inclined could have done it. They even offered to do it for me, but I'd had enough. I was on the fence about the seat anyway. I'm going to order a Russell that will end up costing less, but I hate having to "surrender" my seat pans. When I sell the bike the seats will have to go with it.

 

And the problem with that is???

 

I hope you are breaking my bike in very well. :wave:

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