When to speak up vs. when to keep quiet about riding gear

[GaryIF]

In the spirit of full disclosure, I'm overly conservative about wearing safety gear. I won't ride without it -- full-faced helmet, jacket, gloves, pants, boots. I'll take whatever additional edge I can get beyond riding skills to protect myself from injury.

 

Yesterday, I saw my neighbor motor down the road with his son in the back. Both were wearing helmets (3/4, visor down). No other safety gear to speak of -- 10-year old son in a short-sleeve shirt, pants, and shoes/sneakers; he wearing a long-sleeve shirt, long pants, shoes, and, I think, gardening-style gloves.

 

I've never seen him wear safety gear, apart from the helmet and token gloves. In the summer, he rides in shorts and short-sleeved shirt.

 

Say something or keep my mouth shut? So far, I've done the latter. Adults make an informed choice about their safety. I'm not sure I could say the same for a 10-year old.

 

Thanks.

[Pilgrim]

Keep your mouth shut; it's none of your business.

 

Pilgrim

[CMWingfield]

Tough question. I'm like you in that I don't ride without all the gear. My best advise is; make sure the Dad and son see you riding with all your gear. On one of the hottest days, ride up with the gear on and ask them if they'd like to go riding with you sometime. As is most often the case, someone will notice all the gear and ask, "aren't you burning up in all that gear?" That gives you the opening you seek to explain why you do it, statistics as to what your hide will look like in a get off without it, and all the yada yada we know that makes riding with gear a necessity. With that, you will have offered the information without seeming pushy and you can at least feel like you've given your best shot at helping someone out.

 

Frankly, If I tried to intervene with all the people I see riding without gear, I'd never get to ride at all. I just wear the gear and hopefully they'll catch the drift.

 

It's nice of you that you care!

 

Good luck.

Mike

[ShovelStrokeEd]

What Pilgrim said, in spades.

[leikam]

So you're concerned about the kid's wellbeing? Ride with them and be the role model you wish the dad was. Maybe they'll change, maybe not.

 

Nine times out of ten, directly telling a parent that he's endangering his kid is going to get you a knee-jerk defensive reaction and not a change in behavior.

[Bob Palin]

Keep your mouth shut; it's none of your business.

 

Pilgrim

100% agreement.

[David]

"When should I speak up?"

 

When he shows an interest in caring what you think. When that happens, he'll be grateful to hear your perspective.

[Geraldh]

On one of the hottest days, ride up with the gear on and ask them if they'd like to go riding with you sometime. As is most often the case, someone will notice all the gear and ask, "aren't you burning up in all that gear?" That gives you the opening you seek to explain why you do it,

 

ditto. I like that

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

A remarkable thread so far: everyone has given different answers, none of which are mutually exclusive.

 

I think Leikam has summed it up best with his suggestion to be a role model: simply be seen consistently doing it your way, without volunteering an unsolicited word about it. If the guy gets curious, he may ask you about your ATGATT philosophy (especially if you break the ice to talk bikes with him), but until he expresses such curiosity, it's pretty much guaranteed that anything you have to say about his choices regarding personal protective equipment for him and his son will be ill-received.

[GaryIF]

Thanks, all. Wise advice -- lead by example not intrusion. I'll keep my mouth shut and gear on. Hopefully, for the son's sake, he'll notice.

[leikam]

Hopefully neither one of them will need it.

[Voodoo]

"When should I speak up?"

 

When he shows an interest in caring what you think. When that happens, he'll be grateful to hear your perspective.

 

Exactly. Otherwise...what Pilgrim said!

[bigmak]

Since getting back on a bike, I've asked LittleMak if she wants a ride, and she hasn't been ready. I was heading out Sat. and asked if she wanted a quick ride, she having flipflops on. Since the farm has gone to subdivision, we have a paved loop in the back pasture (bought her a gocart for Christmas) and just wanted to go around once in 1st gear. I said I'd prefer she put better shoes on, which she did, but I didn't have her put a jacket or helmet on. When we do hit the main streets, helmet, boots and coat will be mandatory, but if someone had told me she should of suited up on our loop, I would of given them a SEG (Mods, please add that to acronyms list (S*it Eatin Grin )

[SageRider]

Keep your mouth shut; it's none of your business.

 

Pilgrim

Yep...

If he wants your opinion, he will ask you for it.

[tallman]

If you break the ice with a conversation about bikes, try to have a catalog or two in your bags, or in your garage. If the opportunity arises, put them in a visible place.

If they show interest you can tell them to keep the catalogs as long as they want, you've already ordered a "jacket", or whatever, from them. Maybe even throw in an anecdote about the fast/efficient service you had from that vendor.

Otherwise, lead by example.

[Mike]

I'm pretty much with the rest of the crew on this one. You'll get less than nowhere by suggesting to the dad that he's being irresponsible and endangering his kid. If, on the other hand, he solicits your opinion, feel free to gently push him toward more protection for the kid.

 

It's actually not easy to find street riding gear for kids. When I started taking my son for rides (early 90s), I had to cobble together an ensemble that gave some degree of protection, using motocross gear, cowboy boots, etc. Things are a little better now, but it's still a challenge.

[Boffin]

For those of you looking for childrens bike gear try Baby Biker

They are a UK company but ship worldwide.

No connection except as a former customer - my kids have now grown up.

 

Cya, Andy

[Lawman]

Most "normal" people feel the same way about motorcycle riding period as you do about riding one without what you consider adequate safety apparel. This is a relative question. The safety difference between traveling by car versus motorcycle is much greater than riding a motorcycle with full safety apparel versus partial safety apparel. Having said that, follow your conscience. It can eat you alive.

I once stopped a person I suspected of driving while intoxicated and let him go after passing the field soberiety tests. He killed a pedestrian hours later.

[Dennis Andress]

Do not correct a fool less he despise you...

[BobFV1]

Thanks, all. Wise advice -- lead by example not intrusion. I'll keep my mouth shut and gear on. Hopefully, for the son's sake, he'll notice.

 

I think that's a good strategy. I hope your neighbors come around. Here's a thought - offer the kid a ride and if he accepts, make him wear all the gear and explain why...

[Bill J]

The fact that he put a helmet on his kid shows that he's more conscientious than the "protective bandana" crowd, or the helmetless, shirtless, wearing flip-flops crowd.

 

The ATGATT people are at the extreme of the riding gear spectrum, even though it might not seem so on this DG. Most people think wearing a helmet, leather jacket and jeans is demonstrating safety consciousness.

 

This is a long way of saying that you should probably stay mum on this one.

[TracerBullet]

I have to go with pilgrim on this one.

As much as I would love to say something better to mind my own business

[rrrich]

One tip for that conversation you're going to precipitate...use "I" statements...as in "I like wearing this nifty jacket 'cause it'll protect the elbows I broke horribly in my last accident"...instead of "You outta wear this or that..."

 

Just a suggestion. He'll proly hear better.

[Jim VonBaden]

The fact that he put a helmet on his kid shows that he's more conscientious than the "protective bandana" crowd, or the helmetless, shirtless, wearing flip-flops crowd. ....

 

Or, because the law in every state forces anyone under 18 to wear a helmet.

 

Personally I think his neighbor is a fool for endangering his kid like that, but I would also keep quiet. No point, and a pissed off neighbor is no fun.

 

Jim {My daughter always wears gear when she rides!}

[rdfrantz]

I kind of agree with Pilgrim, "Shut up; It's none of your business", but by kind and degree.

 

Ultimately, it is that adult person's choice, and also what he wishes to pass on to the child.

 

I'm certain that your own "sensibilities", your concern, could be met within the purview I offer by focusing on that "choice" factor. An effective choice is an Informed one. You have the opportunity, in polite converation, abstract in place and time from when the adult is, or is about to be, Riding, to express what you know, not Think, or Feel, about Riding Gear.

 

Having done that, Provide Information, I'd think you had properly discharged your "duty".

 

I'd be less happy if one were to pass on Emotionalism.

 

Best wishes.

[AdventurePoser]

Gary,

 

I think I'd take every effort to "model" the proper behavior for the father-son riders in question. When they see you riding in the proper gear, it will register. Maybe not enough to change minds, but it will still register...

 

Other than that, MYOB.

 

Cheers,

Steve in So Cal

[R-1150-RS]

I think it IS POSSIBLE to have a discussion with your neighbour about riding gear without coming across as trying to inflict your views and values on him.

 

Invite him over for a beer, start talking bikes, and simply bring the issue up.

 

Seek out his views, express your's, citing the reasons why you conclude you are safer with gear, and perhaps he might be enough of an open-minded person to give some consideration to your perspective without thinking you're trying to put him down.

 

The message is often more in how its said, than what is said. No lecture, just an exchange of ideas and rationale.

 

Offer him another beer, invite him to join you on one of your rides with some of your ATGATT buds, and before you know it the message might sink in - Or not.

 

But to just let it go will guarantee you will have had no influence on him.

 

- And that he will likely continue to see no problem with his kid riding with little or no protection.

 

Gary

[270]

Why not put some graphic post wreck pictures of road rash and busted skulls in his mailbox?

 

Just kidding. Sounds like something I would do. You shouldn't as a decent human being.

[GaryIF]

All the responses to my original post are most cool, and wise as I noted previously. I get it and got it.

 

Maybe I'll have him over, offer to hang up his jacket, and comment on my struggle to find a spare hanger because of all my riding gear in the closet -- one for every season and weather condition (yeah, I'm a real nut case. Haven't met a jacket and pants I didn't like).

 

I ride by the neighbor's house all the time on my way home from a ride. He sees me and waves. He rides by my house whenever he goes out for a ride. This little kabuki dance has been going on for more than a year. So far, my example hasn't rubbed off.

 

A colleague at work picked up the riding jacket I wore one day and commented, "Gosh, this is heavy. Isn't it kind of hot and uncomfortable?" "Nah, not really," I said. "A heck of a lot more comfortable than skin grafts." "Hmmm. Never thought of that," she said. "Guess that makes a lot of sense. But don't you hate having to wear a helmet in the summer?" Argghhhh.

 

Thanks again, everyone. Lots of great wisdom and experience in this community.

Gary

[bigmak]

Gary, I've been self-employed since I was 21, so there is a "bit" of MYOB in my makeup at many levels. I'll be posting in a few days regarding some critical help I received from fellow riders, and their admonishments regarding my health, but just wanted to say that I finally took action after months of "encouragement" only when a fellow rider "lent" me some equipment and another rider eased the paperwork hurdle. Months of footdragging changed to: I got to do something, because the "value" was demonstrated to me beyond theory.

I think a neighborly jesture might be to ask his email and send him the link to this post. With all of us chiming in as we did, I think your heart will come through to him in a positive way

If he gets snooty, we'll call child services

[scatterbrain]

"When should I speak up?"

 

When he shows an interest in caring what you think. When that happens, he'll be grateful to hear your perspective.

 

Exactly. Plus they always see you wearing your gear. I'd leave it at that.

[Jacob Mayer]

I think all you can do in these situations is MYOB and as many have suggested, lead by example hoping for a chance to discuss your views without being pushy. I see lots of parents in what I'll call cruiser attire (jeans, boots, t-shirt, protective bandana) with their kids similarly attired but wearing a 1/2 or 3/4 helmet. What example is the parent setting?

 

But, I have been known to ask the unhelmeted, NTGNTT solo HD rider or squid if they have their organ donor cards with them.

[Mike Baum]

Do not correct a fool less he despise you...

 

You mean "lest" he despise you, right?

[Jacob Mayer]

Do not correct a fool less he despise you...

 

You mean "lest" he despise you, right?

 

Everybody's an English teacher...

[David]

Do not correct a fool less he despise you...

 

You mean "lest" he despise you, right?

 

[my best larry the cable guy imitation]

 

"I don't care who you are--that there's funny! Lord, bless the pygmies in Africa."

 

[/end of impersonation]

[Jim VonBaden]

Do not correct a fool less he despise you...

 

You mean "lest" he despise you, right?

 

Everybody's an English teacher...

If you knew Mike, you would realize how truly funny that is!

 

Jim

[beemerman2k]

Here's a thought - offer the kid a ride and if he accepts, make him wear all the gear and explain why...

 

I understand the point you are trying to make, but I absolutely would not do this. If a grown man offered MY underaged child a ride on HIS motorcycle without consulting ME first, bullets would FLY!!! Guaranteed.

 

Unless you're Michael Jackson, and can afford lots of body guards and court costs, this is NOT a good idea.

 

In my opinion, when people "meddle" in matters between a parent and his/her child, they are treading in dangerous territory. NEVER deal directly with the child, *at best* you are subverting the parents will and that alone is enough to get you in serious trouble with that parent.

 

ALWAYS deal with the parent ONLY!!!

[Homerr]

I agree with the role-model approach. Darwin will sort out the rest.

[MWS]

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ALWAYS deal with the parent ONLY!!!

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Can you talk to my wife's mom? My wife just bought a 1/2 helmet.

I've followed this thread with interest, but how do you deal with a loved one? She is a big girl now, and can make her own choices.... right? This move of hers is got me going! Aside from showing her Signal 30 movies, I can't convince her of the saftey aspect. Besides, when I taught her to golf, she didn't listen, and when she taught me to ski, I didn't listen. Must be a spouse thing. Sorry, DMTHTT (Didn't Mean To Hyjack The Thread.)

 

 

Is half better than nuttin'?

[bigmak]

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ALWAYS deal with the parent ONLY!!!

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Can you talk to my wife's mom? My wife just bought a 1/2 helmet.

 

Is half better than nuttin'?

 

Mark, Mark, Mark, I've got it

Ya live in the Village of Orange, right? Tell your wife lots of villages have oranges. Then proceed to produce an orange in one hand and a plastic bowl in the other. Tell her: this orange is her head. Put the bowl on it, and say: this is your head in a half shell. Pull a Gallagher and smash the sucker with a mallet.

If her eyes bulge with veins, grab another orange and just add vodka

Good luck

[MWS]

Sorta like the fried egg and your brains on drugs, good visual!!!!

[bigmak]

Sorta like the fried egg and your brains on drugs, good visual!!!!

Yup, or it could be said the village called and the orange is missing

[MWS]

---------------------------------------------------

Pull a Gallagher and smash the sucker with a mallet

---------------------------------------------------

 

Then she'd yell at me for getting orange guts all over the living room wall!

[bigmak]

Mark, my dirty little secret is I tried to buy a half shell a few years ago, your post made me want to look for one again.

I stopped at a garage/shop selling "beanies", and they were too small. Everytime I stopped, he hadn't gotten in the XL's. These were so underground, he had a sheet of DOT stickers to put on the lid after you bought it I just wanted one to ride the logging roads at slow speed, and enjoy the sights and sounds.

[MWS]

I guess I'm ok with it now. We have talked about it, and since she has three fused disc in her neck from an old skiing incident, helmet or no, when she goes down it will not be pretty. Doc told her even in a rear ender in a cage she has a good chance of being a quad. God bless her!! Half helmet is less stress on her neck from less buffeting and easier for an over the shoulder check! That's her story and she's sticking to it!!!!

 

 

Should we ban 3/4 and half helmets since I don't agree with it?

 

------------------------------

Those who can't laugh at life, have no imagination.

[Rider1200RT]

I agree that leading by example is the best route. Inviting them for a ride with you is a good idea, provided that you don't mention their attire unless they question you about yours. You can explain the benefits of ATGATT without insulting them or insinuating they should get gear. He does put a lid on his kids head so he's already thinking about gear. A couple of rides with you may result in a jacket or more. Planting a positive seed will have more results than ridiculing your neighbour. Who knows, your neighbour may turn out to become a good riding buddy.

[Paul De]

Gary, Mike and Gary

 

Unless you have an established relationship with this guy finding contrived way to express your view on safe riding practices may be received like beer flatulence in a small room. I would be careful about this tactic because if finds your effort to discuss this topic as a transparent attempt he will not only feel you are preaching to him, but are doing so in a condescending way.

 

No matter what your feelings on this issue are, doing anything beyond riding by example and responding to unsolicited interest on his part is going over the line.

 

If you do go for the contrived approach keep your gear & helmet on…..that way when he tries to punch you in the head wrestle you to ground you can demonstrate the effectiveness of the gear and helmet against abrasions and contusions

[RonStewart]

Keep your mouth shut; it's none of your business.

 

Pilgrim

Thanks Pilgrim,

 

There are a couple of kids who ride on dirt bikes around my subdivision. I have longed to call the cops on them - underaged rider, unlicenced rider, illegal bike, unlicensed bike, no helmet. Yesterday I happened to walk past their home (I don't know who they are and didn't know where they live) and Mom was telling the younger one that if he went out again, he had to wear a helmet.

 

Thanks Pilgrim. I will do as you say. Those parents don't give a rat's butt about the law or the safety of their kids, but it is none of my business.

[scargoes]

Don't even wave. This guy needs both hands on the grips!

[Flint]

I would agree with Pilgrim. The only other thing I might suggest is to have a group of safety clothes clad riding friends make it a habit to stop by yer pad and have a little BarBQ or something? Invite the dude and the boy over but tell every one that they are not to say a word about anyone else's choice of riding gear. Have them do a little of the hey man check out the new whatever I just got. Again saying nothing to the neighbor and the kid about the gear. If that boy is anything like the two I raised he will eyeball some of that stuff even if he says nothing about it. In a couple three sessions of your friends gearing up and down to come and go and having their new friends from next door around I would almost bet you will see the change. It may be in just a few questions and it may be more. If one of yer buds has a son or better yet a daughter that rides with Dad and has the full compliment of riding attire then ask them to pop in a time or two. That young man will be asking Dad for some cool stuff and you never had to stick your nose in their business at all?

 

Just a thought about how you may be able to aid and abet a change and not draw fire.

Denny