SHIMHEAD Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Hi all, Tried to buy some of this elusive Castrol SAF-XO 75W-90 synthetic gear oil from my dealer, and was told I would have to buy a case quantity. Didn't bother asking how they do service work without stocking the recommended lubricant for the R12RT final drive, but instead went searching the internet. Found out that SAF-XO is a required lubricant for several Land Rover vehicle differentials. Since I work at a multi-line car dealer including Land Rover, I asked my Rover parts guy (my nephew by the way), and sure enough Land Rover part # LRN 7591 is in stock and is CASTROL SAF-XO 75W-90 synthetic gear oil. Go see your local Land Rover dealer and get your own. There is a technical information bulletin that lists this oil, the bulletin number is SB121, and the parts are listed at the top. I won't post the bulletin, but rest assured, this is a reliable source......FINALLY!! Change your diff oil!! SHIMHEAD Link to comment
RoadJunkie Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Great news. Turns out in my area the Land Rover dealer is right next door to the BMW shop. I'll give your numbers a try. Link to comment
marcopolo Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Just out of curiosity, how much is it? My local tech here in Canada gets it easily enough, but it seemed to be very elusive south of the border, for whatever reason. Link to comment
SHIMHEAD Posted April 5, 2008 Author Share Posted April 5, 2008 Cashed in one of my many favors, so I got a bottle free (quart), but had a quote invoice printed to keep for my records and it showed an "internal" price of $6.97. I suppose it is probably under $20 over the counter.... just checked with my parts manager ....$13.93 plus tax! SHIMHEAD Link to comment
RoSPA_man Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Cashed in one of my many favors, so I got a bottle free (quart), but had a quote invoice printed to keep for my records and it showed an "internal" price of $6.97. I suppose it is probably under $20 over the counter.... just checked with my parts manager ....$13.93 plus tax! SHIMHEAD Is this the best stuff to use in the R1200RT gearbox? Link to comment
99Roadster Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 No. Final drive only. The wrong stuff (75w140) is the best stuff to use in the gear box. Link to comment
Dave_in_TX Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 No. Final drive only. The wrong stuff (75w140) is the best stuff to use in the gear box. What do you base that statement on? Link to comment
ShovelStrokeEd Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 He is basing the statement on BMW's recommendations and the experience of many of us on the board. The higher viscosity oil is bad for the rear end and very good in the gearbox (smoother shifting being the best reason). Link to comment
smiller Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Looking at the specs for Castrol SAF-XO 75W-90 I'm left wondering what magic properties it has that makes it suitable where Mobil 1 75W-90 is not? Link to comment
HairyCannonball Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Looking at the specs for Castrol SAF-XO 75W-90 I'm left wondering what magic properties it has that makes it suitable where Mobil 1 75W-90 is not? In my opinion, nothing makes it more suitable than Mobil 1 75W-90 or Amsoil 75W-90 or the BMW branded 75W-90 synthetic all of which are readily available. Tim Tim Link to comment
Dave_in_TX Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 He is basing the statement on BMW's recommendations and the experience of many of us on the board. The higher viscosity oil is bad for the rear end and very good in the gearbox (smoother shifting being the best reason). IIRC, BMW recommends 75W90 for the 1200RT's tranny. Link to comment
Don_Eilenberger Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Looking at the specs for Castrol SAF-XO 75W-90 I'm left wondering what magic properties it has that makes it suitable where Mobil 1 75W-90 is not? BMW's blessings? (I'm a Valvoline fan myself..) Link to comment
SHIMHEAD Posted April 11, 2008 Author Share Posted April 11, 2008 Here is part of the bulletin I referenced. See attachment. SHIMHEAD OOPS, file is too big, will keep trying! Let's try this! Link to comment
HairyCannonball Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Yes I believe it is widely known that Castrol SAF XO is what the service bulletin says, and thanks for finding a source for it. I do not believe that there is anything magical about SAF XO however, it is just a synthetic 75W-90 gear oil that meets API GL5 and Milspec MIL-L-2105D. Amsoil Severe Gear 75W-90 also meets these specs, and in fact meets the newest Milspec MIL-PRF-2105E. There are many 75W-90 synthetic gear oils that meet API GL5 and either the older or newer Milspec, for example Red Line, Lucas, Royal Purple Max Gear, and Valvoline Synpower to name a few. I really think any of these would perform well in the final drive. I don't think the choice of oil is as critical as getting the break in swarf out so it doesn't foul the bearings. The magnet plug helps also IMO in keeping wear particles out of solution. Link to comment
marcopolo Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 He is basing the statement on BMW's recommendations and the experience of many of us on the board. The higher viscosity oil is bad for the rear end and very good in the gearbox (smoother shifting being the best reason). IIRC, BMW recommends 75W90 for the 1200RT's tranny. If the gearbox oil recommended by BMW for the R12RT is the same as they recommend for the R12GS, then it's: "hypoid gear lubricant SAE 90 API GL 5". That comes from the BMW repair DVD for the GS (someone posted the applicable page over at ADVRider.com). Link to comment
Jim VonBaden Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 Looking at the specs for Castrol SAF-XO 75W-90 I'm left wondering what magic properties it has that makes it suitable where Mobil 1 75W-90 is not? BMW's blessings? (I'm a Valvoline fan myself..) Same here. I always use Valvoline 75W90 full synthetic. However, if you prefer 75W140 Full synthetic is just fine and I know many who use it. Jim Link to comment
Tominator Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Why does the gear oil that comes out of the drive look like there is Moly inside it? Ive checked a couple and all of them have a grey appearance? Tomas Link to comment
HairyCannonball Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Why does the gear oil that comes out of the drive look like there is Moly inside it? Ive checked a couple and all of them have a grey appearance? Tomas Because there are wear particles in suspension. Put a strong magnet in what you drained and leave it overnight. I bet you will be surprised by two things: 1. How clear the oil looks after the magnet pulls out the swarf 2. How little swarf the magnet collects. It doesn't take much in suspension to look awful. Link to comment
Tourbike Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Is there any data that using 75w140 in a FD shortens the life or alters the performance of the FD? Link to comment
Tominator Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 It almost looked like Moly, wow thats a lot of particulite! Dont know why so many want to run the 75W140...its way to thin.... Tomas Tomas Link to comment
Tourbike Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Doesn't it actually thicken up more with heat? I notice that Mobil 1 sells both 75w90 and 75w140 as does BMW. There is not much info on where each is formulation is to be used. This is a good question for a lubrication engineer. Link to comment
marcopolo Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Doesn't it actually thicken up more with heat? I notice that Mobil 1 sells both 75w90 and 75w140 as does BMW. There is not much info on where each is formulation is to be used. This is a good question for a lubrication engineer. The info on what to use (FD and gearbox) is provided by BMW. The problem is that they don't put it in the owner's manual for the bike. Instead, you have to find it in the repair DVD or, in the case of the FD fluid, also in the parts fiche. Getting the right info from dealers has proven to be a bit of a hit and miss affair. In the end, put in what you feel like, but I'd at least like to do that after knowing what the bike manufacturer recommends, not some guy on the internet who says I put in xyz and it hasn't blown up yet, so it must be good. Link to comment
ShovelStrokeEd Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 No, it doesn't thicken with heat. All the designation means is that it will be at at the same viscosity as 75 weight oil at or near room temperature and the same viscosity as 90 weight oil at elevated temperature. I think the temperature range is somewhat different for gear oils as opposed to motor oils but the principle remains the same. The final drive produces hardly any heat anyway. Even after a vigorous ride, you should be able to hold your hand on it. Link to comment
Dave_zoom_zoom Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Thanks for the tip!!!! I bought 1Ltr. of Castrol SAF-XO SAE75W-90 BMW part #33 11 7 695 240 from my dealer. All for the small fee of a little over $40.00 plus taxs. YIPPIE Link to comment
marcopolo Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Thanks for the tip!!!! I bought 1Ltr. of Castrol SAF-XO SAE75W-90 BMW part #33 11 7 695 240 from my dealer. All for the small fee of a little over $40.00 plus taxs. YIPPIE Yes, it's expensive stuff, especially when buying it from a BMW dealer. Wonder what a Land Rover dealer would charge? My FD oil is changed by my independent tech; he charges $5/100ml (or part thereof) for the stuff, or $15 for a FD fluid change. Link to comment
Jim VonBaden Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Why does the gear oil that comes out of the drive look like there is Moly inside it? Ive checked a couple and all of them have a grey appearance? Tomas My original FD oil was dark as well. My understanding is that some Moly was included in the assembly, and at the first oil change it may come out dark. Here is what mine looked like on the first oil change at 18K miles: After that it was always clear. Jim Link to comment
Tominator Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 I would say you are correct Jim, I too suspect Moly added to the Gear oil when the dealer iniotialy puts the bike in service. It did NOT look like metal when I drained it. Thats exactly how my oil looked! Thanks Tomas Link to comment
HairyCannonball Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 That's exactly the way mine looked. I put a neodymium pellet magnet in mine overnight and by morning the oil looked clean and there was a small amount of fine ferrous swarf on the magnet. The swarf is not shiny metallic looking, it is a very fine particle that looks black when stuck to the magnet and gray/brownish in suspension. I don't believe Molybdenum disulfide is attracted to a magnet. The next fluid change comes out clean because everyone is replacing the drain plug with a magnetized replacement which attracts the wear particles, plus after the first few hundred miles isn't that much anyway. Tominator, your statement "Dont know why so many want to run the 75W-140...its way to thin...." indicates you have a misconception somewhere. The recommended viscosity per the service bulletin is 75W-90 as is well documented in this forum. 75W-90 has a thinner hot viscosity than 75W-140, so BMW is actually recommending a thinner fluid than 75W-140. If you really feel the 75W-140 is still too thin you could try Redline Shock Proof Heavy. Me? I'm going to stick with good synthetic 75W-90. Amsoil severe gear in there now FWIW. Link to comment
Twisties Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Excerpt of some email correspondence with our local independent BMW shop: ...All changed sometime between early March and early April 2008. BMW issued a part number for the Spectro produced oil in the USA – 07510334082. An in a departure for BMW, when they released the part number the oil was actually available. We now have this fine new BMW oil in stock. They also indicated that they had alerted several dealers to the issue and had been informed those dealers will now use and stock the right stuff. Jan Link to comment
marcopolo Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Excerpt of some email correspondence with our local independent BMW shop: ...All changed sometime between early March and early April 2008. BMW issued a part number for the Spectro produced oil in the USA – 07510334082. An in a departure for BMW, when they released the part number the oil was actually available. We now have this fine new BMW oil in stock. They also indicated that they had alerted several dealers to the issue and had been informed those dealers will now use and stock the right stuff. Jan I've got a copy of a February 2005 BMW USA Tech Service Bulletin on the R1200GS final drive. Let me quote the last sentence dealing with the final drive fluid: "We highly recommend using BMW Super Synthetic Gear oil. 75W90, P/N 07 51 0 394 082." That was over three years ago! Who just woke up? (BTW, I'm assuming there's a typo somewhere, as there's one digit that doesn't match in the p/ns quoted). Link to comment
Twisties Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Excerpt of some email correspondence with our local independent BMW shop: ...All changed sometime between early March and early April 2008. BMW issued a part number for the Spectro produced oil in the USA – 07510334082. An in a departure for BMW, when they released the part number the oil was actually available. We now have this fine new BMW oil in stock. They also indicated that they had alerted several dealers to the issue and had been informed those dealers will now use and stock the right stuff. Jan I've got a copy of a February 2005 BMW USA Tech Service Bulletin on the R1200GS final drive. Let me quote the last sentence dealing with the final drive fluid: "We highly recommend using BMW Super Synthetic Gear oil. 75W90, P/N 07 51 0 394 082." That was over three years ago! Who just woke up? (BTW, I'm assuming there's a typo somewhere, as there's one digit that doesn't match in the p/ns quoted). At least it's now available! We are putting it in tomorrow. Incidently, you are responsible. We sent them your post from earlier in this thread when they gave us 75w140 for the FD. I guess it woke them and some other dealers up, but I posted back mainly because this thread is on where to get it. I thought it should be known that it is now available. How'd you get a copy of a service bulletin? They won't even show me one. Jan Link to comment
marcopolo Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 How'd you get a copy of a service bulletin? They won't even show me one. Jan My final drive failed while in Wyoming last summer. A friend of mine contacted the dealer where I bought the bike (in Canada), described the symptoms, and the dealer gave my friend an electronic copy of the bulletin and suggested he e-mail it to me as they (my home dealer) thought it might be useful to have it in hand when I arrived at the dealer where I was taking the bike to be repaired (Salt Lake City of all places; I see that's where you're from). It was useful to have. Link to comment
Don_Eilenberger Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 At least it's now available! We are putting it in tomorrow. Incidently, you are responsible. We sent them your post from earlier in this thread when they gave us 75w140 for the FD. I guess it woke them and some other dealers up, but I posted back mainly because this thread is on where to get it. I thought it should be known that it is now available.Jan, It's been available for quite some time. My bike got it when it received it's 600 mile service over a year ago.. PN is right on the invoice. Link to comment
Semper_Fi Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 [quote"We highly recommend using BMW Super Synthetic Gear oil. 75W90, P/N 07 51 0 394 082." (BTW, I'm assuming there's a typo somewhere, as there's one digit that doesn't match in the p/ns quoted). I just checked my repair order for my 600 mile service just done in April and they used 75W90 SYN GEAR with part number 07 51 0 394 082.1 And they (Max BMW) have it readily available. Link to comment
longjohn Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Thanks for the tip!!!! I bought 1Ltr. of Castrol SAF-XO SAE75W-90 BMW part #33 11 7 695 240 from my dealer. All for the small fee of a little over $40.00 plus taxs. YIPPIE Looks like the price has come down some. I paid about $30 before taxes at LB BMW. I will get five changes out of it though Link to comment
I812 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Next FD and trans change will be out of warranty. Red Line it is. Used it in many past BMW's. Link to comment
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