ATGATT

[tallman]

Dave,

At the risk of stepping on toes, and that is not my intention, I'll put .02 out there.

"Scuffing" is old school, but doesn't hurt.

Modern tires need to go through heat cycles.

At least a couple of warm them up and cool down periods.

MCN did an extensive report and comparison a while back. (Someone else can search).

That was their general conclusion.

This in no way is a reflection on anyone involved in this incident, merely my memeory of what they said from their results.

The composition of modern tires is such that the cycles actually help the compound be all that it can be.

Richard, hope you heal well and quickly.

Flame suit on.

[tonyla]

Excuse me for being an idiot but how did the new tires cause this mishap? I see black tire marks on your diagram photo is that spinning tire marks? I ask because again I'm an idiot and just had two tires installed and with less then 1 mile on them I was practicing u turns,

 

Sorry but I'm just confused

[Huzband]

Jeez Richard, that stinks.

 

But thank heaven the roundel wasn't scratched.

 

[leikam]

Glad it wasn't worse Richard

[Bud]

I came down on my right knee and slid about 10 feet on my right hip in my Olympia Airglides last fall. The mesh looks worse in the photo than it is because of some dirt ground in. I'm still wearing them:

 

They look fine to me.

 

 

It was a low side going around a corner at 10-15 mph.

[BeniciaRT_GT]

Excuse me for being an idiot but how did the new tires cause this mishap? I see black tire marks on your diagram photo is that spinning tire marks? I ask because again I'm an idiot and just had two tires installed and with less then 1 mile on them I was practicing u turns,

 

Sorry but I'm just confused

 

I don't see that as an "idiot" type remark at all Tony. Heck, that's why I posted this in the first place.

 

A lot of times the tires come with the mold release still on them, and they are very slick. Not the kind of new tire "not sticky enough" as Tim mentions with having a heat cycle or two, but "wax on rubber" kind of slick. I learned this the hard way about 25 years ago with an old GPz550, and have always taken it easy and slowly scrubbed in the tires if I couldn't get them cleaned my way as they were installed. I've never had them do much more than be a little slippery since that incident 25 years ago, but I've always been careful. This time I just slap forgot and these were incredibly slick.

 

I can't explain just how slippery these things were! I wasn't doing some slow speed "crank it over maneuver," it was barely even a turn at all. I also was just cracking the throttle enough to get rolling, not really to even accelerate yet.

 

My point was that many times a new tire may still have the mold release on it and will be slippery. However, after reading some of these posts, I'm starting to wonder if I'm not just full of BS and new tires are just fine. On the other hand, the dealer reminded me again to be careful on the new tires. I've heard that many times from several different installers over the years.

[DaveTheAffable]

My point was that many times a new tire may still have the mold release on it and will be slippery. However, after reading some of these posts, I'm starting to wonder if I'm not just full of BS and new tires are just fine. On the other hand, the dealer reminded me again to be careful on the new tires. I've heard that many times from several different installers over the years.

#1... So glad you're ok, and good for you wearing protection of your choice, and deciding to go on with your trip!

 

Here's a thought. Wiping down the tire and scuffing a little even if it doesn't NEED it, certainly doesn't hurt it. I may be misreading some of the earlier posts, but it sounds almost like people who clean their tire and scrub it a little are being looked at as silly. A little over caution should never be discouraged.

 

About 6 months ago I recieved two tires (Conti-Road Attacks) and the front had SOMETHING on it that was slicker than soap on a tile shower floor. The rear was clean, bone-dry, and had an almost matt appearance to it.

 

I cleaned them BOTH prior to riding. YMMV

[Keith S]

Glad to hear you are ok!

Just to further the slick new tire concern.

 

Guy here in Calgary did somewhat the same thing on his first ride. But he planted his foot which blew out his hip. Guy was 35 and ended up in a wheelchair for months. He sued the dealership but the lawyers ate up the settlement.

 

Bottom line, new tires = danger

 

Keith

[Francois_Dumas]

Our dealers and tire companies state that you MUST go easy for the first 100 miles at least. Reason they quote is that there is some sort of liquid used to keep the tires 'fresh' until used and this 'liquid' needs to dissolve first before the tires get their optimum grip.

 

I have read many mishaps on the various motor forums here caused by not (or not enough) sticking to that warning..... must be some truth in it I figure..... I want my stick-out cylinders to remain clean and cylinder guards unscratched, so I'll stick to the low-and-slow when I put on new ones...

[Ben_Ricci]

 

I probably don't have any business commenting on this because Lord knows I'm not an expert on riding or tires, but it certainly looks like both tires were clearly involved in losing traction. If you look closely at the photo the front tire skid begins at the bottom of the photo (at least) and then the rear skid mark comes around over it as the bike is nearly on the ground. It doesn't seem too hard for me to see how this could have happened as Richard described. He couldn't have been going too fast because the bike didn't slide that far on the rubber. Looks to me like it went down and spun a couple of times using plastic as its pivots. Pure speculation on my part, but a good reminder about the perils of newly mounted rubber. Sorry to see your GT looking a little ragged , but glad you're okay Richard--and you didn't let this ruin your trip.

 

Upon seeing the earlier posted picture, it looked like a simple tip over.

[BeniciaRT_GT]

If you look closely at the photo the front tire skid begins at the bottom of the photo (at least) and then the rear skid mark comes around over it as the bike is nearly on the ground.

 

Ben,

 

There are several skid marks on the street there, but the picture doesn't really do justice to the one you refer to. It starts much earlier and runs straight down the street, a ways from where I started. I disregarded that mark...

 

 

Of course there could be other factors involved too:

 

 

 

As my buddy AzKaisr says, "I'm just sayin'"

 

Seems kind of odd really...

 

(for those of you that are watching this thread in a serious way, sorry for the slight hijack )

[Francois_Dumas]

I see you moved to a neighborhood with much sturdier cable boxes.... wise !

 

 

 

 

 

[tallman]

IDCWYA,TRTIF

Richard,

you are a very bad man .

I like it.

Cable repair Crew on stand-by.

[azkaisr]

When are you going to mention the "I was doing a wheelie" part?

 

Glad you are ok my friend

 

Kaisr

[Jacqueline]

Yes... and Richard (not me) might have been able to take that box out had he had a little more speed or spin on that bike. His bike didn't even jump that little curb .

 

Have to laugh about it... it was scary when it happened. I was ahead of Richard to the right and I watched as his bike spun pass me. Not a good feeling!

[Francois_Dumas]

I was ahead of Richard to the right and I watched as his bike spun pass me. Not a good feeling!

 

I can imagine..... would've made my heart skip a few beats too !

[upflying]

When I had new tires installed on my police Harley, the tech did a brief burnout before giving the bike to me. Green tires are dangerous.

[BFish]

has it been posted on youtube yet? glad you're ok, sorry about the bike and gear. you taking this very well i might add.

[onedae]

"Here's a thought. Wiping down the tire and scuffing a little even if it doesn't NEED it, certainly doesn't hurt it. "

 

As long as you don't wipe them down with Armorall!!!

[russell_bynum]

Our dealers and tire companies state that you MUST go easy for the first 100 miles at least. Reason they quote is that there is some sort of liquid used to keep the tires 'fresh' until used and this 'liquid' needs to dissolve first before the tires get their optimum grip.

 

They're full of it.

 

At track days, I'm on my knee 5-7 miles after the new tires first touch pavement. I put dozens of tires on my RT and never gave them more than a few miles to wear in before I'd have the bike cranked over and going for it. Basically...however long I usually wait for the tires to warm up is how long I wait before going for it on new tires.

 

I'm not saying there wasn't something slippery on Richard's tires that caused this, but normal new tires are not an issue.

[Jacqueline]

They're full of it.

 

At track days, I'm on my knee 5-7 miles after the new tires first touch pavement. I put dozens of tires on my RT and never gave them more than a few miles to wear in before I'd have the bike cranked over and going for it. Basically...however long I usually wait for the tires to warm up is how long I wait before going for it on new tires.

 

I'm not saying there wasn't something slippery on Richard's tires that caused this, but normal new tires are not an issue.

 

I am SO glad that we have such an expert on this topic!!! I'm sure your experience alone should carry more weigh then what the dealers say and what others have experienced.

[g_frey]

Amazing "didn't actually break anything" Rode to work the next day? Double amazing, perhaps just a wee bit crazy? Remind me never to get you ticked off. Thank you for not saying you were wearing a neon yellow jacket. The self myth is still active.

[Francois_Dumas]

Our dealers and tire companies state that you MUST go easy for the first 100 miles at least. Reason they quote is that there is some sort of liquid used to keep the tires 'fresh' until used and this 'liquid' needs to dissolve first before the tires get their optimum grip.

 

They're full of it.

 

 

 

I'll tell 'em next time I have new tires mounted...

 

I am no expert, being a newbie biker, just relaying what the general consensus on the various boards and between the various dealers seems to be here.

 

Perhaps they are being overly cautious, but I am not going to try and prove them wrong

[flyingreg]

Since there was no story about blood, guts, or alien abduction, I know you are alright.

 

Now, about that tip-over, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ-I-NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!

[russell_bynum]

They're full of it.

 

At track days, I'm on my knee 5-7 miles after the new tires first touch pavement. I put dozens of tires on my RT and never gave them more than a few miles to wear in before I'd have the bike cranked over and going for it. Basically...however long I usually wait for the tires to warm up is how long I wait before going for it on new tires.

 

I'm not saying there wasn't something slippery on Richard's tires that caused this, but normal new tires are not an issue.

 

I am SO glad that we have such an expert on this topic!!! I'm sure your experience alone should carry more weigh then what the dealers say and what others have experienced.

 

You have to look at this in context. Dealers say to be careful: That's just them covering their ass. If someone goes out on new tires and does something stupid, then they sue the dealership for not warning them. (Remember...this is a place where people get sued for selling hot coffee.)

 

 

And why should my experience be any less valuable than anyone else's? I'm mounted dozens of tires...different brands, different bikes, etc and never had to take it easy. I know a whole bunch of people with similar experience.

 

Should we just toss that experience out the window?

 

I think it's a good idea to check out your new tires as you're mounting them (or before you ride away if you had someone else do it). It is certainly possible that something slippery got on there in shipping/storage/etc that you need to deal with. But just normal new tires.....not a problem.

[flyingreg]

This in no way is meant to be critical of your mishap, I am just glad things turned as well as they did. I also have never prepped a new tire for the road. As Russell stated, smooth operation of the controls and the one controlling them will prevent a wheel spin, new tire or not. I was not there so can't say how much throttle you fed into the engine. However, looks like quite a bit. You did say the bike was only on the rear wheel when you left it, right? STUFF happens!

 

Did I say, glad you are OK. I see some mesh kevlar riding gear in your future.

 

EDIT: For the record, I'm not saying scrubbing new tire before riding on it is nonsense or absolutely a waste of time. the process has merits. What I am saying is that with judicial use of the throttle, the tire(s) will scrub in while riding in short order. IS this method for everyone? YMMV prevails here. Whew, glad I cleared that up.

[tallman]

They're full of it.

 

At track days, I'm on my knee 5-7 miles after the new tires first touch pavement. I put dozens of tires on my RT and never gave them more than a few miles to wear in before I'd have the bike cranked over and going for it. Basically...however long I usually wait for the tires to warm up is how long I wait before going for it on new tires.

 

I'm not saying there wasn't something slippery on Richard's tires that caused this, but normal new tires are not an issue.

 

I am SO glad that we have such an expert on this topic!!! I'm sure your experience alone should carry more weigh then what the dealers say and what others have experienced.

 

I could quote numerous tire sites and others that advocate easy does it on new tires.

But, why bother.

 

As long as we're being anecdotal, I've seen more than a few mishaps related IMO to new tires.

I even remember a very accomplished rider taking delivery at Chicago BMW who barely made it out of the parking lot.

Russell,

Do you warm the tires at the track before riding?

Or just mount 'em and ride?

If I remember correctly, you don't bother balancing tires either, right?

From your videos it is obvious you are a very skilled rider.

I'm glad you've had no negative feedback from any tire related uses.

Best wishes.

[Francois_Dumas]

 

You have to look at this in context. Dealers say to be careful: That's just them covering their ass. If someone goes out on new tires and does something stupid, then they sue the dealership for not warning them. (Remember...this is a place where people get sued for selling hot coffee.)

 

 

Russell,

 

I appreciate that such would be the motivation from a US dealer's perspective.

 

But you'll have to see my remark without the tinted glasses. I am talking about European (in this case Dutch, Belgian and German) dealers and tire specialists, and we do NOT have this 'sue-anyone' culture here. So possible lawsuits are definitely NOT the reason they tell this to their customers...... AND act upon it themselves as well. All dealers I know are riders too.

 

There must be another reason.

[Jacqueline]

They're full of it.

 

At track days, I'm on my knee 5-7 miles after the new tires first touch pavement. I put dozens of tires on my RT and never gave them more than a few miles to wear in before I'd have the bike cranked over and going for it. Basically...however long I usually wait for the tires to warm up is how long I wait before going for it on new tires.

 

I'm not saying there wasn't something slippery on Richard's tires that caused this, but normal new tires are not an issue.

 

I am SO glad that we have such an expert on this topic!!! I'm sure your experience alone should carry more weigh then what the dealers say and what others have experienced.

 

And why should my experience be any less valuable than anyone else's? I'm mounted dozens of tires...different brands, different bikes, etc and never had to take it easy. I know a whole bunch of people with similar experience.

 

Should we just toss that experience out the window?

 

No, not at all. Your experience has value, but not enough to say anyone else with a different opinion is "FULL OF IT". I’m just saying!

[russell_bynum]

Russell,

Do you warm the tires at the track before riding?

Or just mount 'em and ride?

 

Mount and ride. My routine doesn't change for new tires....I start out a little slow (maybe 70%) as I make sure my brain is working, I remember where the track goes (or learn it if it is a new track), and while the tires warm up. If it is a track I'm familiar with and everything feels right, I'll be pretty close to 100% by the end of the second lap.

 

So...I don't go out there first thing in the morning and try to break a land speed record into turn 1, but I just don't do anything different with new tires than I do with ones that have already been scuffed all the way to the edges.

 

 

If I remember correctly, you don't bother balancing tires either, right?

 

Nope. Although...I may have found a set that needs it. I need to take the wheels off the bike and see if that's it, but the current set of Pilot Powers have a VERY slight harmonic vibration around 90mph that I've never felt before. This is very very minor and I only notice it when the road is very smooth and I'm really focusing on the feel I'm getting from the bars/seat, but I haven't felt it before and it seems like something that you'd get with an out-of-balance tire, so we'll see.

 

As long as we're being anecdotal, I've seen more than a few mishaps related IMO to new tires.

 

I'd be much more inclined to say those mishaps were related to cold tires than new tires. Again...from my experience. I've had plenty of cold tire slides.

 

Obviously, if there's something slippery on the tire, that's bad and you need to deal with that. But that's not how tires normally come.

 

Hey, if you guys want to spend time in the garage sandpapering your tires, have at it. You're not likely to hurt anything and if it makes you feel better, do it.

 

I've got better things to do with my time.

[stubble!]

I missed this thread till today. Dang Richard, glad you're ok. You need to keep the front wheel on the ground at times like these. Sorry about the bike.... This is just the excuse you need to custom paint it, perhaps some purple flames or an island-beach-scene airbrushed on the flanks?

 

Anyway, on the subject of the scrubbing discussion, not long after I started riding I watched a gentleman on a freshly shod V-Strom go down leaving the dealer's lot. He was slow and smooth as can be, clean blacktop, very little lean and the front just slid out as he pulled out, as though the road were icy. Scary. Guess I've had good luck WRT excess release agent. Just put a new PP 2CT on the front, and it was sticky from the start, as was the PR2 it joined on the rear. Regardless, in my somewhat limited experience, 100 miles is probably excessive, but I do take it very easy at first, gradually working up the traction requirements until the tires are scrubbed edge to edge. Depending on the road, this could be over two miles or twenty.

[tonyla]

Richard

Thanks for the reply and for being such a good sport to some of your friends.

 

Plastic is replaceable

Tony

[g_frey]

I like to run down a coarse gravel road with new tires. It seems to scrub them off pretty good. Never had any new tire slips but I am a "chicken" rider in some ways.

[Matts_12GS]

Since there was no story about blood, guts, or alien abduction, I know you are alright.

 

Now, about that tip-over, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ-I-NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG!

 

Alien Abductions?

 

 

[/HiJack]

[norah]

Dang Richard!! Glad to know that your okay and the tires are now treaten you right. Another story to tell over a few beers ....

[roadscholar]

Richard, I have been analyzing this mishap and am deducting a different theory altogether. From the diagrams it's obvious you were fixating on two objects in your peripheral vision. On the right was Jacqueline and on the left, the dreaded cable box...Jacqueline, cable box, cable box, Jacqueline, Oh No!!!...Sccrrreeeeech!!!! !@#$%!@#$%.

 

 

Glad you're ok, ATTGATT indeed. No, it won't buff out but a little paintwork and she's good as new.

 

If it'll make you feel any better, I dropped my GT in a mud hole a couple weeks ago on the way to bike week, it took two hours to get everything cleaned back up. The ironic part is, the night before I had a premonition I might do that very thing, talk about fixating.

[BeniciaRT_GT]

Richard, I have been analyzing this mishap and am deducting a different theory altogether. From the diagrams it's obvious you were fixating on two objects in your peripheral vision. On the right was Jacqueline and on the left, the dreaded cable box...Jacqueline, cable box, cable box, Jacqueline,

 

That has not gone unnoticed. Odd indeed how the bike started straight down the hill but then immediately made a left turn (just as it passed by Jacqueline hmmmmmmmm) and headed straight for the cable box.

 

Odd I tell ya', just plain stranger than fiction

 

"I'm just sayin'"

 

However "odd" that part is, I'm still sticking to my "new tires are slippery so Y'all be careful" reason. It's my story and I get to tell it like I want. That was the point of the thread anyway.

[roadscholar]

I'm stickin' with the force field theory.

 

[BeniciaRT_GT]

I'm stickin' with the force field theory.

 

 

 

You mean form the "She Devil's" field?

 

[Francois_Dumas]

Uh oh.... more slippery ground......

[tallman]

Easy now, remember she's got friends in high places.

[Jacqueline]

Cable boxes are unsightly and take away from the natural beauty of the landscape... besides what useful purpose do they service?

[Jacqueline]

Easy now, remember she's got friends in high places.

 

[SCed]

Dave,

At the risk of stepping on toes, and that is not my intention, I'll put .02 out there.

"Scuffing" is old school, but doesn't hurt.

Modern tires need to go through heat cycles.

At least a couple of warm them up and cool down periods.

MCN did an extensive report and comparison a while back. (Someone else can search).

That was their general conclusion.

This in no way is a reflection on anyone involved in this incident, merely my memeory of what they said from their results.

The composition of modern tires is such that the cycles actually help the compound be all that it can be.

Richard, hope you heal well and quickly.

Flame suit on.

I Agree 100%. Heat from riding on the new tire is the only way to finish the curing process. 30 years experience working in the engineering group of a major tire manufacturer.

[tonyla]

OK YOU ALL GOT ME SPOOKED NOW. New tires nice weather and I'm riding like a freaking old man. I even put my camera in my bag so when I crashed I could show you guys. COME ON I NEED HELP,

 

Tony

[Paul Mihalka]

OK YOU ALL GOT ME SPOOKED NOW. New tires nice weather and I'm riding like a freaking old man. I even put my camera in my bag so when I crashed I could show you guys. COME ON I NEED HELP,

 

Tony

Easy. Go riding. After a hundred miles you KNOW they are OK

[russell_bynum]

A year or so ago, there was a thread on one of the sportbike boards about this exact situation.

 

Except, the guy who crashed said instead of using sandpaper to scuff his tires, he usually just does a burnout. When someone pointed out that this wouldn't do anything for the sides of the tires, he said "I rock the bike back and forth while doing the burnout"

 

I just about wet myself laughing at that one.

 

[flyingreg]

OK YOU ALL GOT ME SPOOKED NOW. New tires nice weather and I'm riding like a freaking old man. I even put my camera in my bag so when I crashed I could show you guys. COME ON I NEED HELP,

 

Tony

Come on now, you aren't really skeeert are ya? You been riding awhile, right? You ain't dead yet. So, go riding and enjoy yerself. There are two avenues of thought on breaking in new tires, both work. Pick one and go forward. You are stressing for nothing.

 

Funny how this thread began as ATGATT.

[Francois_Dumas]

Yeah, should have been called ATRATT !

[flyingreg]

Yeah, should have been called ATRATT !