rg500g Posted February 9, 2008 Posted February 9, 2008 I replaced the intake tubes on my '99 R1100 RT with GS tubes to see if what I read on the Internet about the mod was true. I doubt that seat of the pants can discern 4 ft lbs torque difference, but the intake honk was muted quite nicely. I originally installed the GS catcode plug, and noted what appeared to be more difficult cold starting (trouble holding idle and significant stuttering and stalling sub 3K RPM while cold) and knocking under high load/low RPM conditions that I don't believe I experienced before. Has any other R1100 RT rider installed GS intake tubes and a GS catcode plug, and if so did you also experience any difficulties similar to what I described above? I acquired an RT catcode plug also, and will be swapping them back and forth tomorrow to see if anything changes.
Paul Mihalka Posted February 9, 2008 Posted February 9, 2008 If I remember well, most comments with the GS catcode plug were not good. Most comments for best results were without any catcode plug. If you leave it without a CCP, the engine control ignores the oxygen sensor and falls back to a backup program in the engine control. The non-USA R1100RT came without a CCP but had installed a manual CO mixture adjuster, which is best set with a exhaust gas analyzer. The CO adjuster is (was?) available and is a plug-in.
T__ Posted February 9, 2008 Posted February 9, 2008 I replaced the intake tubes on my '99 R1100 RT with GS tubes to see if what I read on the Internet about the mod was true. I doubt that seat of the pants can discern 4 ft lbs torque difference, but the intake honk was muted quite nicely. I originally installed the GS catcode plug, and noted what appeared to be more difficult cold starting (trouble holding idle and significant stuttering and stalling sub 3K RPM while cold) and knocking under high load/low RPM conditions that I don't believe I experienced before. Has any other R1100 RT rider installed GS intake tubes and a GS catcode plug, and if so did you also experience any difficulties similar to what I described above? I acquired an RT catcode plug also, and will be swapping them back and forth tomorrow to see if anything changes. Scott, back when I had an 1100 I made up a cat code plug with a 3 position switch so I could A-B-C the different cat code plugs (all they really are is a set of jumpers in a relay box).. What I found on my 1100 was the pink cat code plug actually ran the best as far as power & higher RPM performance went.. The Green seemed to pull too much low RPM spark out so the lower RPM performance was softer but less responsive ) it did kill the low RPM surge a little though.. It also hurt cold start fast idle slightly (probably due to less spark advance at light throttle).. With the switch set to the NO CCP position it ran pretty good across the board but still a little less power at mid to high RPM’s.. A good trade off in my opinion though.. Keep in mind that when you switch CCP’s you need to pull the Motronic (fueling computer) fuse for a few seconds to re-set the computer’s keep alive memory.. You really don’t need to buy any CCP’s as you can duplicate any of the CCP’s with a simple set of jumper wires with spade terminals on the wires.. Here are the CCP pins that get jumpered together for the Pink & Green CCP.. Just look at the bottom of your CCP to find what number terminal goes into what cavity slot in the socket then make a simple jumper wire up push into those cavity slots.. Pink will require a 3 way jumper.. Pink CCP ____P/N = 61368366-625 (30-87-87a ) Olive Green CCP____ P/N = 61368366-621 (30-86) Twisty
DavidEBSmith Posted February 9, 2008 Posted February 9, 2008 The stock cat code plug for the RT is yellow, 30-87. The green plug, 30-86, I'm not sure where or if that was used on the 1100. It's not one listed in Lentini's article here. I found that I got significantly better gas mileage on my RT with GS tubes with one of the cat code plugs. Unfortunately, I don't remember which one it was, and right now it's cold and dark and raining so I'm not going out to the garage to check. I don't remember that there was a significant performance difference.
rg500g Posted February 9, 2008 Author Posted February 9, 2008 Definitely the pink GS catcode plug does not play well with a cold RT engine. This was mentioned in other posts on the Internet, and today's experience bore that out. It would idle reasonably on fast idle, but pulling away and holding 3500-3000 RPM in first cruising down my alley to the street had the bike spitting and wanting to stall. It was bad enough that I immediately stopped in the alley and replaced the GS plug with the RT unit, pulling the fuses 5&6. Shuddering and stall went away. Warmed the bike up and the GS plug was just fine in the first gear crawl test. Whacking open throttle at 2500 RPM in 4th yielded a lot of rattle like spark knock. Again, I pulled over and put in the yellow RT plug, pulling fuses again. No audible rattle under same road same RPM and throttle opening. I dropped by the BMW shop I frequent and chatted a while about this, handed over the RT plug I borrowed, and made a jumper wire. By this time the bike cooled off and the GS plug went back in. Same sputter and lurch/stall pulling away and holding low RPM first. Shop guys tried it also and confirmed. Installed the jumper ala RT plug and issue went away. Looks like the GS plug has more advance at low RPMs which does not like a cold engine or poor throttle control.
T__ Posted February 9, 2008 Posted February 9, 2008 Definitely the pink GS catcode plug does not play well with a cold RT engine. This was mentioned in other posts on the Internet, and today's experience bore that out. It would idle reasonably on fast idle, but pulling away and holding 3500-3000 RPM in first cruising down my alley to the street had the bike spitting and wanting to stall. It was bad enough that I immediately stopped in the alley and replaced the GS plug with the RT unit, pulling the fuses 5&6. Shuddering and stall went away. Warmed the bike up and the GS plug was just fine in the first gear crawl test. Whacking open throttle at 2500 RPM in 4th yielded a lot of rattle like spark knock. Again, I pulled over and put in the yellow RT plug, pulling fuses again. No audible rattle under same road same RPM and throttle opening. I dropped by the BMW shop I frequent and chatted a while about this, handed over the RT plug I borrowed, and made a jumper wire. By this time the bike cooled off and the GS plug went back in. Same sputter and lurch/stall pulling away and holding low RPM first. Shop guys tried it also and confirmed. Installed the jumper ala RT plug and issue went away. Looks like the GS plug has more advance at low RPMs which does not like a cold engine or poor throttle control. Scott, how does it run with NO CCP? They usually run pretty good in that configuration.. Twisty
DavidEBSmith Posted February 9, 2008 Posted February 9, 2008 Scott, how does it run with NO CCP? They usually run pretty good in that configuration.. An 1100? With no CCP the 1100 expects the CO pot to be installed and if it isn't, sets a Motronic fault.
T__ Posted February 9, 2008 Posted February 9, 2008 Scott, how does it run with NO CCP? They usually run pretty good in that configuration.. An 1100? With no CCP the 1100 expects the CO pot to be installed and if it isn't, sets a Motronic fault. David, not true as far as my 1100 went.. It never set a (1111) code & even if it did so what,, it’s not like it goes into a limp home enable or turns a light on,, or anything like that.. Twisty
rg500g Posted February 10, 2008 Author Posted February 10, 2008 I bought the bike w/o CCP not knowing different at the time. Bike runs just fine w/o plug. I want absolutely the best gas mileage I can get and will put up with a fair amount of surge/whatever to get measurably better mileage. I'm logging each tank and what I do to the bike from tank to tank. W/o CCP the bike did 36 MPG, which has me wondering why I bought the damned thing. I've got to run 3 tanks to re-baseline with RT CCP jumper. If mileage is no better I'll yank the jumper and check out car ads for a Prius.
T__ Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 I bought the bike w/o CCP not knowing different at the time. Bike runs just fine w/o plug. I want absolutely the best gas mileage I can get and will put up with a fair amount of surge/whatever to get measurably better mileage. I'm logging each tank and what I do to the bike from tank to tank. W/o CCP the bike did 36 MPG, which has me wondering why I bought the damned thing. I've got to run 3 tanks to re-baseline with RT CCP jumper. If mileage is no better I'll yank the jumper and check out car ads for a Prius. Scott, running without a CCP does lower fuel mileage s-l-i-g-h-t-l-y but shouldn’t lower it to 36 mpg.. It sounds like you have other problems like maybe a plugged air cleaner,, or a misadjusted TPS,, or a problem with the AIT (air temp sensor),, with the way it ran with the pink CCP that even more so points to a runability problem.. The pink CCP should run good & probably give the best fuel economy but is prone to surging.. If you can’t find anything obvious pull the 02 sensor & install a pressure gauge in the 02 hole (inches of h2o better than inches of mercury).. I suppose it’s possible you have a plugging catalytic converter.. Unless you cruise at high 80 mph or thrash the bike hard it should be at least in the low to mid 40 mpg range.. How about dragging brakes? Twisty
Paul Mihalka Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 I bought the bike w/o CCP not knowing different at the time. Bike runs just fine w/o plug. I want absolutely the best gas mileage I can get and will put up with a fair amount of surge/whatever to get measurably better mileage. I'm logging each tank and what I do to the bike from tank to tank. W/o CCP the bike did 36 MPG, which has me wondering why I bought the damned thing. I've got to run 3 tanks to re-baseline with RT CCP jumper. If mileage is no better I'll yank the jumper and check out car ads for a Prius. Buying a big bike for maximum mpg is a folly. For that buy a F650 or something like a Suzuki Burgman for comfort + mpg. Or, as you said, buy a Prius.
Jake Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 More folly: right now it's cold and dark and raining so I'm not going out to the garage to check. Just who are you and what did you do with the REAL EB?!?!?! As if you ever noticed cold, dark, and rain ever in your life, let alone permit it to stop you...
Paul Mihalka Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 One more comment: "I want absolutely the best gas mileage I can get and will put up with a fair amount of surge/whatever to get measurably better mileage." If you find a combination of very good mileage, but with a lot of surge and engine running like sh$t, you are running it too lean and will damage your engine.
rg500g Posted February 10, 2008 Author Posted February 10, 2008 Unfortunately, my commute (and this is >90% of how I use the bike) is a predominately an 80 mph cruise along urban beltways to get to my office. I try to get into 5th ASAP and not whack open the throttle or do anything stupid. The nature of rush hour traffic on these roads though, puts a premium on strong acceleration to get out of the way of cell phone users, cow brained cagers, etc., and there is no shortage of them every day. I often end up downshifting and whacking open the throttle to dodge someone getting in my lane and such. Braking is not an option, as rear enders are the predominant form of collision on these roads. I've already got a Stebel mini nautilus installed on the bike, and sometimes holding the button down does no good they're so oblivious. On two other occasions the person freaked out so bad when I hit the horn they almost lost control of their car and I did have to brake strongly to avoid getting swiped. TPS checked, timing checked, fresh plugs, no Motronic codes, cat may be hosed since the prior owner ran w/o CCP, but I have no way of telling. O2 sensor may be bunged also, but I have no knowledge of diagnostics. I'd love to get a repeatable 42-43 mpg, as I have a lot of trouble justifying the BMW when it's mileage gets hammered by a Prius that can operate year round.
rg500g Posted February 10, 2008 Author Posted February 10, 2008 Buying a big bike for maximum mpg is a folly. For that buy a F650 or something like a Suzuki Burgman for comfort + mpg. Or, as you said, buy a Prius. Yes, that does appear to be folly indeed. I rode the F650 and could not find hard luggage that would carry a laptop. I did not consult aftermarket (Givi), and the available F650 was wheezing on the highways at 80 MPH. Burgmann, maybe - but I never test rode it. I think in hindsight I should have spent my money on a Prius.
Stan Walker Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 I think in hindsight I should have spent my money on a Prius. It's not too late......... Frankly, I ride a large bike because I want to, not for saving money. To save money, you should consider taking a bus, ride pooling, or just plain walking. Stan
T__ Posted February 10, 2008 Posted February 10, 2008 Unfortunately, my commute (and this is >90% of how I use the bike) is a predominately an 80 mph cruise along urban beltways to get to my office. I try to get into 5th ASAP and not whack open the throttle or do anything stupid. The nature of rush hour traffic on these roads though, puts a premium on strong acceleration to get out of the way of cell phone users, cow brained cagers, etc., and there is no shortage of them every day. I often end up downshifting and whacking open the throttle to dodge someone getting in my lane and such. Braking is not an option, as rear enders are the predominant form of collision on these roads. I've already got a Stebel mini nautilus installed on the bike, and sometimes holding the button down does no good they're so oblivious. On two other occasions the person freaked out so bad when I hit the horn they almost lost control of their car and I did have to brake strongly to avoid getting swiped. TPS checked, timing checked, fresh plugs, no Motronic codes, cat may be hosed since the prior owner ran w/o CCP, but I have no way of telling. O2 sensor may be bunged also, but I have no knowledge of diagnostics. I'd love to get a repeatable 42-43 mpg, as I have a lot of trouble justifying the BMW when it's mileage gets hammered by a Prius that can operate year round. Scott, I would think that on the 5 speed bike you would be well above the RPM/engine load for 02 sensor control at 80 mph.. Without the CCP you definitely didn’t have 02 control at 80 mph.. A good test for a plugged cat. is to run it out to top speed.. A plugged cat. Will hold top speed down.. With a verified TPS be sure to also check the AIT sensor as that really effects non 02 control fueling.. Another place to look is at fuel pressure.. Make darn sure the fuel return hose is plugged in (if you have quick disconnects) as that will drive the fuel pressure to max.. With the way you say your bike runs with the pink CCP I firmly believe you have a slight problem somewhere.. Also remember a 5 speed bike at 80 mph will have lower fuel mileage.. Still a lot better than a car as nothing will get close to 36 mpg at those speeds.. At sustained high speeds the Hybrids won’t even come close as that is their worst case for hybrid help.. What kind of fuel mileage do you return at 65-70 mph? Twisty
rg500g Posted February 11, 2008 Author Posted February 11, 2008 I think in hindsight I should have spent my money on a Prius. It's not too late......... Frankly, I ride a large bike because I want to, not for saving money. To save money, you should consider taking a bus, ride pooling, or just plain walking. Stan Walking indeed... Try to read my posts rather than make trite comments of no value. My one way is >20 miles. I checked out bus routes, and the while public transportation is feasible, the one way transit time is 2 hrs vs 30 min on bike or in car. No one in my office lives near me so that's out.
rg500g Posted February 11, 2008 Author Posted February 11, 2008 Also remember a 5 speed bike at 80 mph will have lower fuel mileage.. Still a lot better than a car as nothing will get close to 36 mpg at those speeds.. At sustained high speeds the Hybrids won’t even come close as that is their worst case for hybrid help.. I ran around the Internet looking for Prius mileage references, and the things can hold 42-44 MPG at 80 MPH. I'd be happy just to match that. It does make one wonder how cars got so much more efficient. Twisty
Jim Moore Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 In my experience, 70mph was kind of the cut off point for good gas mileage on the RT. At 70, you could get over 40 mpg no problem. Once you got above 70mph, the gas mileage dropped off rapidly. 36 mpg sounds a tad low, but not too bad for an 80 mph commute. Mileage is also going to be worse in winter than in summer. BTW, bikes are cool. Prius's are not.
T__ Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 [quote I ran around the Internet looking for Prius mileage references, and the things can hold 42-44 MPG at 80 MPH. I'd be happy just to match that. It does make one wonder how cars got so much more efficient. Scott, don’t for a minute believe the mileage people claim to get on the Prius.. For one thing most that buy that vehicle are more than a little tainted in their expectation of the vehicle & look to justify their expenditure.. The onboard fuel mileage computer is also very generous in the data it spits out.. Plus I can’t ever say that I have seen a Prius traveling at 80 mph,, more like 65 mph.. Remember it still takes X amount of horsepower to go 80 mph regardless where it comes from.. In all the real world tests I have seen on the Prius the ACTUAL mileage is considerably lower than predicted.. I the testing we have run on the Prius it is much lower than the EPA posted numbers & more in line with conventional compact vehicles at comparable freeway speed testing.. It does do better in stop & go city travel but so do most Hybrids.. Twisty
Bud Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Once you got above 70mph, the gas mileage dropped off rapidly. No wonder my mileage is so bad.
smiller Posted February 11, 2008 Posted February 11, 2008 Scott, don’t for a minute believe the mileage people claim to get on the Prius.. Or an RT...
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