Braking

[Threader]

Love this website. Have been enjoying reading it on and off for about a year and decided to join. My husband has an RT and got me to reading stories/experiences you all have posted.

 

So now I have a question that maybe someone can help me with. I have just upgraded from a BMW 650 CS to the R1150R....not the RT (Sorry). Have had the 1150 about 2 months and put 2,000 miles on it. I ride it daily working on slow manuevering as well as turns, corners. The only thing that is absolutely driving me crazy is BRAKING! I have now gone down three times on this bike and it is breaking my heart as well as getting me really frustrated!!! My problem seems to be having to go down a slight incline (or large incline) to a stop sign or just have to stop. I don't know if I overcompensate, panic or what, but every now and again I stop suddenly, too far back from where I should stop, lose my balance and go down. I would welcome any suggestions. Any suggestions. Have attended MSF, practice continually and am in my second year of riding and ride daily without fail. I know the braking is different on the 1150R than what I was used to on the 650 CS, but I also know the braking is similar on my bike to the RT.

 

I am not that tall -- 5'5 -- am not flat footed when I am on my bike so compensated with lower Wunderlich seat and great motorcycle boots. Still not flat footed, but get a good half of my foot down.

 

So maybe somebody else had to work their way through similar frustrations with the braking that could give me some pointers? Thanks.

 

Extremely frustrated

[Corkus]

Where do you live? Lots of great riders here can show you intead of just talking about it. And we don't bite or ask for your phone number either . (I'm joking.)

 

You've come to the right place. I'll let others discuss technique. Good luck with figuring this out. I bet you will soon.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Threader,

We will be more than happy to help. It is what separates this chunk of cyberspace from all the rest.

 

First off, come in, sit down and introduce yourself around. We are all friends here and most of us prefer to use first names rather than handles.

 

Now, lets look at your problem and see what we can do to help.

 

Your bugbear seems to be downhill or unplanned stops which is exacerbated by you feeling a bit uncertain yet on your footing.

 

Lets see if we can't come up with some practice drills for you to make your life a little easier and keep the shiny stuff on that nice roadster where it belongs.

 

The key to getting stopped and not dropping the bike is to get stopped with the bike straight up and down and have the last few feet of the stop have the bike moving in a straight line. The most likely reason you are dropping the bike is that you are not following those simple rules. Now, you can walk and come to a stop where you want without looking at your feet can't you? Sure you can. Well, you are probably looking at the ground when you try to come to a stop either cause you are fixed on trying to stop at a specific place or you are watching whatever caused you to stop in the first place. Its all too common a mistake.

 

Head to your favorite practice area and work on nice gentle stops, keeping your head and eyes up and concentrating on the horizon for a good visual reference. Don't, for now, worry about coming to a complete stop but rather getting most of the speed off the bike without having to steer. Keep your arms and grip on the bars as light as possible controlling your body position with your knees gripping the tank. As the bike slows, gently ease off on the brake pressure so that your rate of slowing remains the same. Repeat this until you are able to slow the bike from say 20 mph or so down to a walking pace without having to steer. This might take a while as its gonna feel strange at first to not be looking at the ground.

 

When you have mastered that aspect of your brake control you are ready to go to complete stops. This is merely an extension of what your have been doing. Just keep the braking going a bit longer, still easing off the brakes until the bike comes to a gentle stop. As the bike gets below walking speed you can remove one foot from its peg and kind of step forward with that foot. if you do it all right, the last little bit of movement will coincide with that foot being out by your side, with the leg almost straight down and as the bike stops, it will lean just a bit over and you can lightly use the extended foot to balance the bike. See, when its straight up and down, it needs almost no force to keep the bike balanced. Again, don't worry too much about where you come to a stop, just come to a nice gentle stop, transition from speed to slow to almost stopped to stop with the bike straight up and down and little, if any, steering input.

 

OK, that wasn't too hard was it? Took a bit longer than you expected but, now you can come to a nice gentle stop without having to weave all over your lane. Got your slow speed skills a bit better too didn't it? Now you just have to work on stopping where you want. A nice empty mall parking lot is perfect for the next drills as there are lots of white lines to use as targets. Our goal this time is to come to a stop with the front wheel resting on the line without looking at the line other than the merest glance at the beginning of the stop. How? Speed sense and peripheral vision. You want to work on keeping your head and eyes up and on the horizon but be aware, using that peripheral vision of how quickly you are approaching your target. You now modulate your brakes so that you have most of your speed gone a few feet before the target and, as before, ease off the brakes and let the bike almost roll to the target point. As you gain skill, you will be able to shorten the almost coasting zone.

 

Look at that, you are becoming an expert.

 

Good luck and have fun. Building skills is not work, or it shouldn't be. Have yourself a little rodeo with your SO. Don't tell him you've been practicing and see if you can't beat him up a bit in the ego department.

 

Ed

[David]

Welcome to the board! I'll start by giving you three tips. If you want me to go into a long explanation of each, I'll be glad to do so. On the other hand, you might just try them first and then come back to figure out the "why" part.

 

1) Use more rear brake than you are, and use it until the last moment when your second foot comes down. At that point, lock the front. The rear will "extend" the steering geometry. Enough said on that point.

 

2) Make sure your bars are squared and not turned in either direction when you do that final brake squeeze.

 

3) Look straight ahead at the horizon, not down where you are afraid of footing or whatever, especially since you've already gone down.

 

Doing these, practice with a strong intention. Put an "X" on the downhill slope and stop right there, within a inch or two. "Clear the area" first by making sure it'll provide grip for your foot. Then don't look down again. Look out.

[David]

Oops. I see Ed beat me to it!

 

One last tip: disengage the clutch long before you stop (for now, anyway). Not only will this be one less thing to think about, but you'll get practice feeling what the brakes will do on their own, without engine braking.

[Wooster]

Hi Threader,

Sorry to hear of your "drops". It isn't much consolation but at least you're not breaking any costly RT tupperware.

On a more helpful note, try using the handlebar lever only. I'm assuming your current bike has integrated brakes so foot pedal and handlebar lever have same effect. Regardless of same effect, most of us (humans, that is) have more incremental control via hands; foot controls are not condusive to small increments. Your message about stopping before you intended leads me to this hand brake suggestion.

Good luck with you bike and sincere wishes for no more drops.

Wooster

[Threader]

Wow! Thanks for the encouragement and the great advice. I will work on all of your suggestions when I go out tomorrow.

 

My name is Donna and am in my forties (good grief) blah....waiting 25 years to get a bike....always wanted one, but we waited until our kids were grown and they are now grown and married, one girl and one boy. Have been married 25 years nearly 26 (jeez) and my husband and I have a blast riding....or we did until I started hitting pavement out of the blue..... I used to ride two-up with my husband when we dated, but we got away from riding and got into raising kids....sigh......

 

More personal info than you ever wanted to know, I am sure.

 

My husband and I started riding two years ago after taking the safety course here in Florida and when I got onto my bike, I felt like I was born to it. Since we ride so much locally and long distance, we decided I was ready to upgrade so I could keep up better with my husband on the expressways. Thus, the 1150R.

 

I think your analysis is right. I am looking down. I think at this point I am getting nervous about falling when I stop and probably am putting my eyes on the ground instead of the horizon. So you guys are all right about that. I have NO problem practicing and practicing. The extra weight took me a while to get used to until I started going into parking lots and doing figure eights, u-turns and stops in a straight line. I am sure I am stopping it upright, but then will lean it a little to the left to get more of my left foot on the ground.

 

Anyway, thanks to everyone for such good advice and encouragement. The encouragement is the best! Losing confidence positively sucks.

 

Donna

[David]

Donna, sounds like you are going to figure this one out pretty soon. Keep at it.

 

After you've nailed these exercises, here's another one: tape a paper cup to your gas tank and fill it halfway with water. Try do to your stopping without spilling any. It'll help your concentration and thus your smoothness. Then just keep adding water.

 

Eventually substitute with some good wine and celebrate after every successful braking run!

[leikam]

Sorry to hear about your drops.

 

What are you doing differently when you drop it v.s. when you don't? Is it consistently one side v.s. the other? It sounds like sometimes you are able to stop successfully on those downhills and sometimes not. If that's right, you just need to work on your consistency.

 

You've gotten some good advice so far on technique and I'm sure you'll sort it out with a little more focus and practise.

[Rich_O]

Hi and welcome.

 

First off, the R1150R is a sweet bike, no need for apologies.

Secondly, you'll soon find out that everyone around here has dropped their bikes...uh, more than once.

Thirdly, you're one of the young'uns here.

 

Ed and David give solid advice. I might add to do some slow speed practice as well.

 

My footing on my bike seems about the same as yours on your bike. I can get the ball of both feed on the ground but not flat feet. What I find myself doing (and it took several months experience to do this fairly consistently) is I come to a final stop using the rear brake. Then I roll slightly in the saddle to put my left foot down flat. Then when stopped, I switch to the front brake and put both feet down. This seems too complex when I think about it, and it's too much to think about when coming to a stop. It just seemed to come naturally after a bit of practice. Once I stopped sideways on a steep driveway. I was too crossed up to put the up-hill foot down, so I put my down-hill down, and It was natural to roll in the saddle to be able to reach. It's a good skill to have.

 

There's a saying that applies: Look down go down, look up stay up.

 

The key, as mentioned earlier is to look forward, using the horizon as a reference.

[Threader]

What a great introduction. I repeat: this website is the best I've ever seen and now I'm sure I'll be hooked for life.

 

I'm going to start working on these suggestions tomorrow and will let you guys know how it works out. Horizon, horizon, horizon. Yes, I think I can still walk without looking at my feet.

 

Consistency is key and I think my consistency will improve as confidence gets restored. The wine suggestion was particularly appealing, but I think I'm a ways from being able to do the water without a bath, never mind the wine.

 

Again, you guys, thanks for the encouragement. My day brightened up after all.

Donna

[Ken H.]

Gee Ed, you don't 'talk' that nice when it's a guy asking the questions!

[Ken H.]

Donna,

 

I want to chime in with just one echo of what the others have said for reinforcement - Keep the handlebars straight forward in the stop. Canted to one side or the other will encourage the bike to pivot and go over.

 

OK, a second echo - Ease off the braking right at the very end of the stop to avoid a jerking motion as the stop completes. Some people never even learn to do that in a cage. In a cage it is just uncomfortable. But on a bike it is important.

 

Keep practicing!

[bmwscoot]

Gee Ed, you don't 'talk' that nice when it's a guy asking the questions!

 

Yeah, the Kinder, Gentler, Ed!

 

Don't know that I like that dynamic.

 

Donna, listen to the guy, BTW. He KNOWS of what he speaks!

 

Oh yeah, welcome aboard!

[Stan Walker]

Wait until she meets Wurty......

 

Stan

[Wooster]

Hi Donna,

In Dante's Inferno, falsifiers are at absolute bottom of eighth circle and that can't be good. So correcting myself, I rise above that sorry lot. R1150R does not have fully integrated brakes. It's either the completely seperate (with each control only affecting its own brake) evo-powered system w/o ABS or partially integrated (with lever working all brakes, pedal operates rear brake only) evo-powered w/ABS.

Sorry to muddle your straight forward question.

Jonathan (one step above falsifiers is sowers of discord, I gotta long way to get out!)

Oh Yes, There's still merit in hand's fine motor skills vs. those in boot-encased foot.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Ken, et al.

 

I noticed I was getting a bit testy of late and decided to try a little tenderness. No promises on how long its gonna last.

 

 

Oh Yes, There's still merit in hand's fine motor skills vs. those in boot-encased foot.

 

Except when applied to the posterior of a recalcitrant child.

[KMG_365]

Hi Donna! Welcome to the board!

 

Another thing that occurred to me was footing. Leslie bought a pair of Chippewa "Logger" style boots the same as the ones I have for wildland Firefighting. They are a 8"-10"high, leather, insulated boot with a lugged sole, supremely comfortable, and with a very thick sole and heel for keping your feet out of the burning duff on the fire line. The sole is almost a full 1" thick and the heel is 2,1/4" high. Leslie really likes them since her RT is a bit high for her and now she can flat-foot the bike easily. It gives her the bit of extra reach that makes up for uneven or sloping surfaces and increases her confidence greatly. A lot of other folks here have tried them and really like them--for cold and heat as well. In fact even though I don't need the height, I wear them too as they are just so comfortable both on and off the bike and I've always got my hiking boots with me on a trip!

 

In the interest of full disclosure, the only criticisms I've heard of the boot was from really sporting riders who prefer a smoother sole (over a lugged sole), and folks who are concerned about the "speed laces" being ground down and possibly failing in a prolonged sliding-type event.

 

You might be able to find the Chippewa, Logger style #73045 (also used for a Firefighter's Wildland boot) at a local place that sells Fire/EMS/Police uniforms and equipment. I'd check the yellow pages and make a few calls with that description and you should find some locally to try on.

[Haynes]

G'day from Oz.

You can't go wrong if you follow Ed and David's advice on the braking procedure and practice. In time, you'll be able to low speed ride and brake as good as anyone else.

 

I'm only 5'8" and sometimes the ground is not close enough for me either and I really understand the stress related to bringing a relatively big bike to a balanced stop. Take on your low speed riding and braking practice as a challenge and you'll beam with excitement at every little increment in your improvement.

[Miriam]

Welcome!

 

Donna, I can relate a lot as I’m 5.5 as well and female, am in my forties and ride a RT! I’m pretty okay with handling the bike until it comes to slow or no speed. The weight of the bike can really buckle me. Translated to the street this creates situations like this one:

 

On my way home I ride through a narrow street that’s next to a canal. When a car wants to pass me, I have to move over towards the water and wait until the he’s passed. Because there’s grass there (slippery when wet) and no rail and I slipped my foot there once, almost falling over, I can now no longer stop normally in this spot. It’s always jerky and like almost slipping, just like the first time.

 

What to do? Main thing is to practice and learn to get full control of your bike, as suggested here. But then there’s also a mental factor. I think you may have created a bit of a vicious circle (like I did with stopping near that canal) by having fallen once, and then for fear of repetition respond in the very way that makes you fall over again. This must be devastating to your confidence, I know it is to mine. If I’m afraid when riding nothing works, it’s awful.

 

What I do in this situation is that first off all I give myself a brake and stay away from the ‘danger spot’ for a while, until my confidence has come back a bit. In the mean time I practice my slow maneuvers more than usual. And I train the scary situation mentally. Seeing myself in my mind’s eye stopping my bike (on the grass or in your case the incline) perfectly. Having all the right responses and using the right methods. If you do this, do it in detail, complete with line of sight and everything. As stated by others, one of the most important things is to not look down, because that’s where you’ll go if you do. Golden rule of motorcycling.

 

Go for it and you’ll get it sooner rather than later. I know!

 

[Threader]

Great advice, Miriam. You're right. I think once you go down in a sticky situation, you start thinking too hard about it and then fearing it and then before you know it, you're making the same mistakes again. I do like to imagine doing it right and will take myself mentally through exercises as well as physically when I am having issues. What's so strange about the whole thing is on the 650, I never thought at all about inclines or anything. I just rode. I guess that extra weight on the R in the front tests my confidence as well as skill a bit more.

 

How great to hear from someone so like me in height as well as age and gender even. Great job on going for the RT. Right now I can't imagine a hundred pounds more that I would have to handle on the RT as opposed to the R. So hats off to you! How is your footing on the ground with the RT?

 

Thanks for the welcome!

[Threader]

It's the second. I have partially integrated with ABS. I have full braking power in the front, which when you slam them on in emergency situations, wants to throw you over the handle bars , and the pedal brake operates the rear brake only.

[Miriam]

Donna, I bought my 1150RT with an 1100RT seat, which is narrower. This seat I had slightly lowered by an upholsterer. I can flat foot the bike now, without special boots, although mine have a good profile. For me this is necessary because of the weight of the bike, otherwise I could never get out of those gravel parking lots!

 

You can see some photo’s of me and my bike (click on my name above my avatar) and find a link to my photo website in my profile. If you like you can PM me with any questions if I could be of any help. You know, us girls sometimes do things differently...

 

Keep us posted on your progress!

 

[Ken H.]

Leslie bought a pair of Chippewa "Logger" style boots <snip> and the heel is 2,1/4" high. <snip>A lot of other folks here have tried them and really like them

And they flatter my thighs so too.

[Threader]

I was wondering.........with such a big heel, does it ever get caught on your pedal?

 

I have the Red Wing women's motorcycle boot that is really comfortable and great, especially the way they grip the road and still move good with my foot, but the heel is only about 1 to 1 1/4 inches.

[Les is more]

Hi Donna,

 

I'm the one who wears the boots Jamie told you about. I really like them. They're supremely comfortable and I've never had any issues with the heels catching.

 

Thanks so much for posting as I'm sure this conversation is of benefit to all of the "vertically challenged" riders out there who haven't considered the possibility of riding a tall bike. As you practice and incorporate the various suggestions given, your confidence will increase and your instincts about braking and the lay of the land will kick back in. Eventually, you'll lose the need to look down at low speed and stops and the insecurity and stiff arms that go along with that will go away. Then, all will be "upright" with the world.

 

I know that the great responses you've gotten will subtract from your "down time" but should you ever have another drop, have you mastered the art of picking up your own bike? If not, that ability also adds to your confidence because it removes some of that helpless feeling. Here is a link to a great method for picking up your bike. I really works. I've used it on the RT and on a KZ 1000 Police bike that weighed in at about 750 pounds.

 

BTW, you (we) are part of a fast growing demographic. I'm 55 and started riding at age 52.

 

We Rock!!

[Threader]

Oh, please, please, I never want to have to see my baby on the ground again , but if I do, I surely appreciate the link. I will study how she does it. I would really like to know that I could pick it up should it ever go down again. I have tried to do it, but could not even budge it. Thankfully, there has always been a kind individual (or my husband) to stop and help me get it back on its treads.

 

I took it out for a couple hours today working on many of the suggestions. The back only braking was the only thing that started me being a bit unsure, but my husband has agreed that in a panic situation, it would be the better one to hit than the front. Otherwise, Ed's and everyone else's suggestions were great and it will be great to have the old confidence and instincts back fully intact! The secret really is keeping your eyes on the horizon. It never failed. That and not being afraid after stopping at a tight corner to let your legs stay dangling for a few seconds as you start out in your turn. I had forgotten that one. Sigh.....

[BWS]

I don't know if these can be classified as "pointers",but they're a cpl. things that alot of M/Cists never seem to get quite right.First is moving around a bike in,say a garage or maybe a parking lot.This is with the bike NOT running.You(and most riders)need to become very intimat with how to move your ride around.It goes a long way in teaching where the CG and balance points are.For instance:instead of doing a 20 point turn around,can you lever your knee into the side of the bike,skidding it over and save three or four fwd./bkwd. moves.Or better yet,grab the a$$ end of bike and simply drag it around.Can you maintain the bikes balance with one finger?Can you walk around it while doing so?Should be able to.Can you put the bike on its cnt. stand and do a spin move?It isn't about muscle,its about knowing where the bikes center is.

 

Second is more of a practice thing.Slow speed manuevers can be greatly inhanced by practicing on your lawn,or any grassy area.Traction is nill.....footing is the same,everything is a slow motion affair.But it quickly shows you what is and isn't possible.It gets you thinking ahead of your desired result and through practice,builds confidence.Best of luck,BW.

 

PS.......Welcome

[Rich_O]

in a panic situation, it would be the better one to hit than the front

 

Keep in mind that most of your braking capability is in the front brake due to weight transfer towards the front during braking. So if you really have to stop quickly (i.e. a panic stop) you should use BOTH front and rear brakes.

 

I was only referring to the last few feet when coming to an easy stop. It just seems that there is more stability when using the rear brake in this situation. Mostly we're just avoiding the fork compression and bounce-back by preferring the rear brake here.

 

But of course, you can do this differntly. If you prefer extending both legs evenly when you come to a stop, then you're going to be using the front brake. You'll just want to employ a controlled touch for stability.

[Laney]

BTW, you (we) are part of a fast growing demographic..

 

We Rock!!

 

You can say that again!

 

I second the suggestion for boots that add height. When I first got an RT, I wondered if I'd EVER be able to master a graceful stop. Part of what helped get past my focus on my clumsy braking was getting a pair of boots with the thickest soles and heels I could find. Losing the insecurity about whether my feet were both firmly flat on the ground made a big mental difference, which led to improving over time, and wondering why I ever worried in the first place. Eventually I went back to "normal" height boots, and never noticed the loss of height.

 

Or maybe my leg bones stretched...

 

Either way, increasing my height temporarily was a big help, along with all the suggestions made above.

[Miriam]

The back only braking was the only thing that started me being a bit unsure, but my husband has agreed that in a panic situation, it would be the better one to hit than the front.

 

Donna, I very much disagree!

 

Rear braking in a panic stop will almost always cost you a lot of precious stopping distance because it will often result in a rear wheel slipping away, to which you respond by letting go of BOTH brakes. I’ve taken a fair bit of advanced rider classes over here, and ALL say to use front brake only in a panic stop for this reason. Of course for the RT the brakes are linked, but in exchange I do have the ABS. (I think your R is setup the same way?)

 

We’ve had us a few discussions on this topic here, not everyone agrees, but I think most will agree that using rear brake only in a panic stop is not a good response to teach yourself. In fact, many here (me too) NEVER use their rear brakes, unless they need to scrub off only a tad of speed, or hit a patch of sand/gravel. Please read up on it before getting into this habit.

 

[Threader]

Miriam,

 

It doesn't really work too well anyway and doesn't give you enough grip on the road, which I knew from before. The brakes on the R are good ones, being partially linked and ABS, so it's no great shakes for me to not work on back only. I did like it though when I was going down a steep hill on a gravel and dirt trail on my CS so clearly back only does have advantages in certain instances and helps you descend with a bit more control when you need it.

 

But I do think that putting on both brakes is a good habit to stay in and not get too lazy with the ABS. You never know...

[Threader]

BTW --- my husband was talking about panicking when descending and needing to eventually stop --- my nemesis on this bike it appears

[philbytx]

Welcome....

FYI - My missus learned to ride at the tender age of 48 and has a Honda CB750 Nighthawk with a single disk front and drum rear without ABS and linked brakes....

 

One drill/practice you might find useful is to go out and take a ride trying to use only your rear brake. During the ride, go into a parking lot and do slow speed turns and slow almost to a stop (with the bike turning and you simultaneously braking) using JUST the rear brake. You will notice that the bike will not "hinge" around the steering head and you will slow quite nicely with no drama. You can then practice slow speed turns to a stop (using just your rear brake) but you will then need to straighten out the bike just before you come to a FULL stop. Again, no drama....

 

You will get a good feel for just what it can (and cannot!) do, especially when you introduce the front brake into the equation as you will notice that you need LESS front brake at lower speeds! One word of caution, if you happen to lock up the rear at speed and the bike steps out on you (rear goes sideways more than a "little"), keep it locked until either the bike slows/straightens out or you have come to a complete stop.

 

Use them both! The combined power of the brakes is greater than the sum of JUST the front brake....

 

Safe and happy riding

[Wooster]

Philby,

In regards to your "if rear steps out more than a little, keep rear brake locked until stopped or slowed down" idea, well, I very much disagree [polite way of saying NO WAY].

While our ABS systems keep this a nonissue, for any one riding w/o ABS, locked brake should be released asap, front and/or rear. While there is tendancy for rear to swing back in line when locked rear brake is released, this phenomenon (mostly a good thing) is easily handled: continuing to move forward (waiting for bike to stop or slow down appreciably) with locked brakes will create crashes more often than not.

I may be missing something here yet recall my airhead panic stop experiences where rear wheel steps out: release of rear brake (or at least lightening up of same) is necessary to avoid road rash & worse.

Wooster

[Shaun]

I read the caution “rear goes sideways more than a “little”” due to rear wheel lockup as intended to reduce the risk of a potential highside. Small step-outs can be handled through brake release or modulation. It’s a somewhat different matter for the little-bit-more situations. If the rear tire regains traction off axis to the direction of travel the bike will seriously attempt to pivot forward about the contact patches. To release (risking a highside) or not to release (risking a lowside)? Similar hazard with power slides also.

 

A locked rear brake is not good but under some circumstances it is the lesser of evils. Practicing on the edge of the precipice can help to determine when stepping out a little is really a little, and when it is too much.

[philbytx]

Wooster....please see Shaun's reply.

Shaun...Thank you I couldn't have explained it any better.

 

I really didn't know how to explain the difference (hence the "more than a little") between a small "step out" when the rear wheel is a few degrees off the axis and you can modulate/release without a problem or when it is "more than a little" off and you can risk a highside. So I erred on the side of caution....

 

It would be easier for me to demonstrate it rather than explain it

[Wooster]

Philby,

"It would be easier to demonstrate it rather than explain it"; please, don't. Having an imagination, mental image of bike becoming perpendicular to direction of travel is sufficiently spooky.

Perhaps we three disagree on which is "lesser of two evils": in my judgement, bringing bike back in line & control is preferable to continued sideways motion but if that works for you, OK.

Wooster

[philbytx]

Actually Wooster, I do agree with you...it's just that I should have added that it is only experience that tells you just how far "more than a little" is,is

 

If you know what I mean......

[Wooster]

Hi Phil,

Isn't it great (seriously) that ABS keeps us from swinging rear end when braking. On my oilhead, I expect straight line stops (assuming I'm straight when brakes applied).

Getting back to Threader, steep declines (going down morphs inclines into declines) benefit from front brake; what with weight shifting to front wheel, rear wheel/brake hasn't much effect.

I know we all wish her success (and increased confidence) with down hill braking. Trying something previously messed-up requires courage and reveals importance of self-confidence: here's hoping I'm as brave when my turn (to mess-up) comes.

Jon

[philbytx]

I love the the ABS....it really doesn't phase me one bit really, power assistance and all. If I want to take a 'step backwards' (at least in some respects ) I hoon around on Deb's CB750 with its single disk front and drum rear. However, I did put EBC pads and shoes on it and they really help with the feel, modulation and bite on the bike. I can tell you that being weaned on 50's and 60's Brit bike SLS and TLS brakes certainly polishes your braking technique and makes you appreciate even more the fine brakes we have on our BMW's!!