Finally bit the bullet, but oh what a difference

[PapaJ]

Well I finally did it. I picked up a power commander and installed it last weekend on my R1150RT. Can you say no surge? I can now ride down the road in second gear at 2000 rpm and not feel like I'm riding a bucking bronco. Great upgrade and for $393 definitely worth the price.

[flat_twin]

Nice eh? It's been 40k miles of smooth throttle since I installed the Techlusion but I remember that bucking bullsh*t. Enjoy your "new" bike.

[PapaJ]

Thank you, I do.

[Silver Surfer/AKAButters]

I installed the PC on mine right after the marginal results of new A3923 plugs, TBS, valve adjust etc., and have never given another thought to the obvious surge mine had when I bought it. A little pricey, but worth the money in my book.

Rich

[PapaJ]

Yes, so far I love it. I've used them before but the thing I like about the PC for the BMW is the O2 sensor. It allows me to play with the fuel/air ratio with the touch of a few keys and get it exactly right. It's great.

[PapaJ]

Took the bike to the gas station for the first time since my install. I was prepared for a modest drop in my mileage since I am running the air/fuel ratio at 13.8 vice the factory setting of 14.7, but was pleasantly surprised to find that my mileage has increased by about 1.5 mpg. After thinking about it I decided that it's probably because I am shifting sooner, spending less time above 4000 rpm, while before I had to be above 4000 to keep it from surging. Kind of a nice surprise.

[philnz]

Well I finally did it. I picked up a power commander and installed it last weekend on my R1150RT. Can you say no surge? I can now ride down the road in second gear at 2000 rpm and not feel like I'm riding a bucking bronco. Great upgrade and for $393 definitely worth the

price.

Please what is a Power Commander? can you fit one to a R1100s Thanks Phil

[smiller]

Please what is a Power Commander? can you fit one to a R1100s Thanks Phil

A Power Commander is an electronic device that piggybacks onto the stock ECU (engine control unit) and allows the user to alter the air/fuel ratio in both open and closed-loop modes. The most common use is to richen up the fuel mixture a bit to eliminate the lean surge that is common on the oilhead bikes. There is another popular device called the Techlusion that has fewer capabilities but performs a similar function. Search on both of these terms and you will get quite a bit of information. These devices are normally used only on the 1100 and 1150 models as the later hexhead bikes have a more sophisticated engine control system that is much less susceptible to the problem.

 

If you are experiencing surge issues the first step should always be to perform a precise tuneup (particularly with respect to throttle body sync) as this will often eliminate the problem, or at least reduce it to a manageable level. For those who have tried all other options without success however one of the fueling box devices are usually very effective.

[T__]

Took the bike to the gas station for the first time since my install. I was prepared for a modest drop in my mileage since I am running the air/fuel ratio at 13.8 vice the factory setting of 14.7, but was pleasantly surprised to find that my mileage has increased by about 1.5 mpg. After thinking about it I decided that it's probably because I am shifting sooner, spending less time above 4000 rpm, while before I had to be above 4000 to keep it from surging. Kind of a nice surprise.

 

Greg, probably 13.8-14:1 is about the ideal ratio for fuel economy on older design engines.. Some of the newer auto engines designed from the ground up to run stokeometirc would do better in the high 14’s but your BMW will probably be happiest in the low 14’s or high 13’s..

 

Problem is your catalytic converter won’t.. If you still have the factory cat. installed you are operating too rich for proper operation.. The rare earth components inside the converter can’t react at that rich of a mixture..

 

Is that a big deal?. Maybe/maybe not but under certain conditions it could become one..

 

Over time (how much I can’t tell you) you will poison the catalytic converter.. OR possibly plug it,, or possibly overheat it (& maybe your trans just above it)..

 

13.8 will definitely over-work or over-heat the converter IF it can get an oxygen supply.. The good news here is 13.8 is usually too rich for it to light off with available oxygen in the exhaust so overheating on non altered pump gas unlikely.. Oxygenated fuels could maybe put you close.. Dropped throttle at high RPM might get you close as the injectors shut down on dropped throttle over-run,, but BMW adds a little fuel back for after-burn reasons so that is good news.. A leak in the front exhaust (pre converter probably would be enough though) ..

 

One thing 13.8 can do over time is plug the converter if it gets poisoned & can’t react.. 13.8 is just rich enough to leave a light layer of soot & soot buildup on the exhaust internals.. Not a big deal on large diameter pipes or muffler internals but the cat has a honeycomb of small diameter passages that will probably become restricted or even plugged over time if not burnt out..

 

I know that people pull the CCP on their bikes with no problems but keep in mind on the 2.4 system that still allows closed loop at cruising speeds & still gives the closed loop/open loop WOT delay at high cruise speeds (my guess is that BMW designed it that way to allow the cat to light off at cruise speeds to clean itself out).. Even the open loop mapping on the 2.4 & 2.2 systems is pretty lean at cruising speeds..

 

OK you are probably thinking Techlusion fuel controller that adds fuel.. That also shuts down at mid RPM & up steady state cruise to allow closed loop & converter protection.. The Techlusion engineers either saw that potential problem during testing (Personally I doubt they did much testing) ! Or were smart enough to think of it & add that converter protection algorithm (this is more likely).. Either way the 02 interface TFI models do have a converter protection closed loop mode at steady state hi-way cruising speeds..

 

If you are still running a non gutted cat is it something to worry about?.. In my opinion not gut wrenching worry but enough doubt to worry some..

 

You might try changing your PC fueling to allow 14.7:1 at 4200-6000 RPM steady state throttle hi-way cruising.. They run pretty good there anyway so I doubt you would even tell the operating difference at hi-way cruise. That would allow the converter to hopefully light off & self clean during hi-way-cruising..

 

You could gut your cat (I have mine gutted & did it all through a 7/8” hole in the L/H side that I then plugged with a stainless steel 2 piece interlocking plug.. (not easy to gut through a small hole as it took me all of 4 hours to do but you really can’t tell by looking that it is gutted).. Far better than cutting the bottom off the cat off & re-welding afterwards as that leaves a less than professional appearance..

 

At the very least keep an eye on the L/H side of your cat converter where it changes from cat to muffler.. If you start getting a lot of purple there (especially if it travels up the muffler a ways) be concerned you are seeing an overheating cat.. On the other side_ If it plugs that will probably happen slowly over time so about all you will see there is slight degradation of WOT performance especially the very top speed..

 

As you get that thing (PC) dialed in keep us posted on how it is working out for you long term..

 

Twisty

[smiller]

If you are still running a non gutted cat is it something to worry about?.. In my opinion not gut wrenching worry but enough doubt to worry some..

It worried me (after years of running a 2.2 Motronic without the CCP and after some time at 13.8:1 with a Power Commander.) Upon examinung the cat element afterwards I couldn't see the slightest evidence of damage or plugging. Just one data point, FWIW.

 

but your BMW will probably be happiest in the low 14’s or high 13’s..

Good guesstimate, at least from my experience. In testing I've found somewhere in the low 14's (running 14.2:1 now) to be optimal in terms of driveability improvement vs. mileage. There seems to be a fairly sharp knee in the curve in that a leaner figure will hurt driveability (dramatically) but going richer won't help much. Perhaps a slight improvement (with a slight mileage hit) as you move towards 13.8, but not much. Richer than 13.8 seems to do nothing but burn more fuel. In any event if the stock objective is really 14.7:1 I can see why that doesn't seem to work very well... just too lean for this engine.

[PapaJ]

I appreciate all the info, and will definitely watch for signs that's I'm overheating the catalytic converter. I do plan to increase the F/A ratio though just a step at a time, I'll give 14.2/1 a try since it seems to be working smooth on your bike, I just don't want to go back to the surging. That's the nice thing about the PCIII it only takes about 3 minutes to change the F/A ratio.

[SinNH]

 

Greg, probably 13.8-14:1 is about the ideal ratio for fuel economy on older design engines.. Some of the newer auto engines designed from the ground up to run stokeometirc would do better in the high 14’s but your BMW will probably be happiest in the low 14’s or high 13’s..

 

Problem is your catalytic converter won’t.. If you still have the factory cat. installed you are operating too rich for proper operation.. The rare earth components inside the converter can’t react at that rich of a mixture..

 

Is that a big deal?. Maybe/maybe not but under certain conditions it could become one..

 

Over time (how much I can’t tell you) you will poison the catalytic converter.. OR possibly plug it,, or possibly overheat it (& maybe your trans just above it)..

 

13.8 will definitely over-work or over-heat the converter IF it can get an oxygen supply.. The good news here is 13.8 is usually too rich for it to light off with available oxygen in the exhaust so overheating on non altered pump gas unlikely.. Oxygenated fuels could maybe put you close.. Dropped throttle at high RPM might get you close as the injectors shut down on dropped throttle over-run,, but BMW adds a little fuel back for after-burn reasons so that is good news.. A leak in the front exhaust (pre converter probably would be enough though) ..

 

One thing 13.8 can do over time is plug the converter if it gets poisoned & can’t react.. 13.8 is just rich enough to leave a light layer of soot & soot buildup on the exhaust internals.. Not a big deal on large diameter pipes or muffler internals but the cat has a honeycomb of small diameter passages that will probably become restricted or even plugged over time if not burnt out..

 

I know that people pull the CCP on their bikes with no problems but keep in mind on the 2.4 system that still allows closed loop at cruising speeds & still gives the closed loop/open loop WOT delay at high cruise speeds (my guess is that BMW designed it that way to allow the cat to light off at cruise speeds to clean itself out).. Even the open loop mapping on the 2.4 & 2.2 systems is pretty lean at cruising speeds..

 

OK you are probably thinking Techlusion fuel controller that adds fuel.. That also shuts down at mid RPM & up steady state cruise to allow closed loop & converter protection.. The Techlusion engineers either saw that potential problem during testing (Personally I doubt they did much testing) ! Or were smart enough to think of it & add that converter protection algorithm (this is more likely).. Either way the 02 interface TFI models do have a converter protection closed loop mode at steady state hi-way cruising speeds..

 

If you are still running a non gutted cat is it something to worry about?.. In my opinion not gut wrenching worry but enough doubt to worry some..

 

You might try changing your PC fueling to allow 14.7:1 at 4200-6000 RPM steady state throttle hi-way cruising.. They run pretty good there anyway so I doubt you would even tell the operating difference at hi-way cruise. That would allow the converter to hopefully light off & self clean during hi-way-cruising..

 

You could gut your cat (I have mine gutted & did it all through a 7/8” hole in the L/H side that I then plugged with a stainless steel 2 piece interlocking plug.. (not easy to gut through a small hole as it took me all of 4 hours to do but you really can’t tell by looking that it is gutted).. Far better than cutting the bottom off the cat off & re-welding afterwards as that leaves a less than professional appearance..

 

At the very least keep an eye on the L/H side of your cat converter where it changes from cat to muffler.. If you start getting a lot of purple there (especially if it travels up the muffler a ways) be concerned you are seeing an overheating cat.. On the other side_ If it plugs that will probably happen slowly over time so about all you will see there is slight degradation of WOT performance especially the very top speed..

 

As you get that thing (PC) dialed in keep us posted on how it is working out for you long term..

 

Twisty

 

I've been reading most of the threads on the Fuel controllers and it seems like if I want to keep and "protect " my cat the Techlusion R259 ( FI 1033ST ) is the way to go.

I have got the surging down to a min with a few valve adjusts , 0=0, and TB sync, but it is still annoying, but a ton better than when I bought it.

Always loved to putter with twin carbed twins to zero them in to run just perfect , so a controller sounds interesting to me, except the price.

 

What's everybody think,, Techlusion 1033ST , yes ?

No laptop, so a Power Commander is not an option.

 

Thanks,

Steve

[T__]

 

I've been reading most of the threads on the Fuel controllers and it seems like if I want to keep and "protect " my cat the Techlusion R259 ( FI 1033ST ) is the way to go.

I have got the surging down to a min with a few valve adjusts , 0=0, and TB sync, but it is still annoying, but a ton better than when I bought it.

Always loved to putter with twin carbed twins to zero them in to run just perfect , so a controller sounds interesting to me, except the price.

 

What's everybody think,, Techlusion 1033ST , yes ?

No laptop, so a Power Commander is not an option.

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

 

Steve, it seems everybody has their own favorite usually based on what they paid good money for..

 

I use the Power Commander on my Harley’s as they seem to need some specific programming to run at their best power & smoothness.. They also respond well to spark mapping improvement..

 

It’s not so cut & dried on the BMW as they seem to only need fuel ADD not fuel removal & the PC for the BMW R bike can’t alter the spark tables..

 

Personally I have had good luck with the Techlusion on the BMW R bikes.. Basically if set up correctly it can be a multi range improver or if minimal functions are used only be active in the surging zone & allow stock emission & fuel control in the non surging hiway cruising zones..

 

Either will work as far as I can tell (I haven’t used the PC on a BMW R bike myself but other very competent & capable people on this board have & they say good results so I believe that) ..

 

I guess it comes down to price & what you expect to do with it..

 

Twisty

[SinNH]

I guess it comes down to price & what you expect to do with it..

 

Twisty

 

Thanks, Twisty. I guess what I want to accomplish is to have next to zero surging at slow speeds , I really don't think I have a problem when really riding or at WOT. The inevitable times of crawling through towns is when my bike needs some help.

I wouldn't mind hearing a little more detail on how you gutted your cat, I have patience and can weld, sort of.

 

Steve

[T__]

I guess it comes down to price & what you expect to do with it..

 

Twisty

 

Thanks, Twisty. I guess what I want to accomplish is to have next to zero surging at slow speeds , I really don't think I have a problem when really riding or at WOT. The inevitable times of crawling through towns is when my bike needs some help.

I wouldn't mind hearing a little more detail on how you gutted your cat, I have patience and can weld, sort of.

 

Steve

 

Steve, I thought I had a good close up of it but can’t seem to find it & the bike is covered for the winter.. You can just see the plug in the attached pix.. (red arrow)

 

What I basically did was remove the cat & rear ex pipe as an assembly,, then drilled a precision hole in the converter L/H side just above the center seam using a roto-broach (fancy hole saw)..

 

Then I used an array of bent 3/8” dia flat pointed rods,, long screw drivers,, short stout screw drivers,, & the must have here was a 3/4” old wood auger bit (the old screw type hand brace bits) welded to a 10” long 3/8” rod & placed in my air drill.. Working through that 7/8” hole in the side I methodically chipped,, hammered on,, ground away with that drill auger until it ALL fell out the cat converter inlet pipe.. It came out in large pieces,, small pieces,, little grindings,, pieces of honey comb, etc.. That internal honeycomb bed is one tough piece of material but with persistence (I mean real persistent) & a lot of work I broke it all up & out it came through the front inlet pipe..

 

To keep track of what was going on inside the cat conv I used a small dash light bulb soldered to a couple of 3” wires & taped up to not short out.. With that hooked to a 12v battery it lit the inside of the cat up nicely when inserted through the 7/8” hole..

 

For the plug I machined up a stainless steel cap to go over the hole inside with a little recess in it & a 7/16” threaded hole in the center,, for the outside I made a male mirror image of the inner with a 7/16” hole through it.. The two pieces fit together with the inner cap locking over the spigot from the outer cap inserted through the 7/8” hole then a 7/16” stainless cap head bolt to hold them together (I was going to mig weld the outer to the outside of the cat case but it fit so good & so tight no need to..

 

I did all the cat work on a thick old blanket so I didn’t scratch or mar the pipe or cat..

 

You can hardly see the plug with the bike on the ground & even if you do it looks production as the SS matches nicely..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Twisty

[SinNH]

Neat, your dedicated. I may try it , the plugging could be an issue . Your bike looks brand new.

Thanks for the info, any difference in exhaust sound ?

 

Steve

[T__]

Neat, your dedicated. I may try it , the plugging could be an issue . Your bike looks brand new.

Thanks for the info, any difference in exhaust sound ?

 

Steve

 

Steve, very slight sound difference at base idle but nothing that I can hear above engine noise once underway.. The BMW R bike exhaust isn’t a very pleasing sound even at it’s best.. Maybe a little more put-puttier at idle but some of that could be due to richer idle fuel mixture & I keep the idle speed about 50 RPM’s above high spec anyhow..

 

Here is a crude drawing of that plug I machined up,forgive the poor drawing as all I have is paint on my laptop here at the moment..

 

Twisty