Synth oil at 700 miles okay?

[Rob F.]

I am changing my transmission oil at 700 miles. Is it okay to replace it with synthetic oil at this point? I've heard that you should wait a little longer.

[dslbrnr]

No problem for the gears. Bmw says to wait until 6,000 Mi for synthetic engine oil though.

[keithb]

Synthetic is fine for the tranny. Most people I know and have spoken with do not change to synthetic engine oil till the 15K-20K mile mark. They want the engine to get completely broken in before switching to synthetic.

[krussell]

I am changing my transmission oil at 700 miles. Is it okay to replace it with synthetic oil at this point? I've heard that you should wait a little longer.

 

What's the motivation for changing it so early? The maintenance schedule calls for every two years or 25k mi. The specified replacement is Castrol SAF-XO. The torque for the filler screw and drain plug are 30nm.

[dslbrnr]

I was told to change engine oil, trans and final drive at 600 Mi. Also head retorque, valve adjustment and throttle body sync.

[Rob F.]

Which type of NON synthetic oil then should be used in the tranny?

[BigAdv]

Which type of NON synthetic oil then should be used in the tranny?

 

Do your self a favor, and get the repair manual on dvd from bmw. It does not leave any thing to opinion.

 

Earl

 

ps attached a pic from the dvd

[JR356]

I gather you have not heard of the famous FD failures.

One of the reasons BMW recommends an initial change at the 600 mile service.

If this has not been done,it's highly recommended,otherwise spring for the extended warranty and hope you don't get stranded somewhere.

 

JR356

[JR356]

Even better,get the Jim VonBaden maintainence DVD.

 

http://www.jimvonbaden.com/page1.aspx

 

JR356

[Rob F.]

Cycle Gear sells 80W90 GL 5 Hypoid Gear Oil. Is this the right stuff?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

It is more than close enough. You can, if you wish, use a 70w140 synthetic in the transmission and you might even find that it makes shifting a bit smoother. I wouldn't go there on the final drive though. Given the issues with final drives, few though they are, I would stick strictly to the lubricant recommended by BMW. As to the myth that you need to wait 10-20K before putting synthetic in the engine, it is just that, a myth. It won't interfere with ring seating, if anything, it will have a positive impact on oil consumption and it may well do a better job at heat dissipation. The primary advantage to switching to synthetic, IMHO, is a longer drain/change interval, it doesn't wear out as quickly. If you are the type who follows the factory recommended change interval, there is probably little need and you can save yourself the price of a couple of tanks of gas by staying with dino.

[marcopolo]

I was told to change engine oil, trans and final drive at 600 Mi. Also head retorque, valve adjustment and throttle body sync.

 

Don't know who told you that, but as far as fluid changes are concerned, BMW's maintenance schedule (for the "Running-in Check" at 1000 kms) calls for changing the engine oil. I believe it was a subsequent technical service bulletin that added the requirement to change the Final Drive fluid at the running-in check. There's nothing about changing the transmission fluid (as someone pointed out, that's called for every two years, or 40,000 kms).

[rideaway]

The Newer DVD says to change oil in rear-wheel drive.

 

 

BMW Motorrad

 

Maintenance schedule

 

0368 - R 1200 RT

 

00 00 119 BMW Running-in Check (see Maintenance Schedule) (once only at 1,000 km)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Customer

 

Registration No.

 

Odometer reading

 

 

 

 

 

 

Order No.

 

Date

 

Mechanic’s + Manager’s signature

 

 

Status:

 

07.2006

 

 

 

 

 

Reading fault memory with BMW Motorrad diagnostic system

 

 

Engine-oil change, with filter

 

 

Changing oil in rear-wheel drive

 

 

Tightening cylinder head fasteners

 

 

Adjusting valve clearance

 

 

Checking brake-fluid level, front brakes

 

 

Checking brake-fluid level, rear brakes

 

 

Checking freedom of movement of throttle cable and checking for kinks and chafing

 

 

Check tyre pressures and tread depth

 

 

Checking lights and signalling equipment

 

 

Function test, engine start suppression

 

 

Checking synchronisation

 

 

Test ride as final inspection and function check

 

 

Reading fault memory with BMW Motorrad diagnostic system

 

 

Confirming BMW Service in on-board documentation

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BMW Motorrad, UX-VA-4

13.09.06

BMW recommends

[johnlt]

Unlike the FD, the tranny is "run in" at the factory so the need for an early oil change is significantly less than the FD. I changed my FD and Tranny at 10K and the FD was black but the tranny oil looked new.

[krussell]

My BMW DVD is dated 9/2007. On a US RT with the 08/07 status date it calls for the Engine and FD oil change at 600 mil. It does not call for the gearbox until 25k mi. It calls for synthetic at that time. It won't help you answer the 'which oil' question though because it thinks you should leave it until 25k.

 

I've spoke up before about the value of having the proper service performed to insure warranty coverage. I define proper as exactly the service that BMW wants performed. With regards to your transmission change, if you leave it 'til 25k and put in the specified fluid and use new seals etc. your warranty will be intact assuming everything else is properly done. On the other hand if you change your tranny fluid, put in the wrong stuff, don't follow the right process, etc. there is the *potential* that you could have a problem if there is an issue down the road. If you do exactly what BMW says to do, they are legally obligated to stand behind you for the warranty. If you do what popular opinion says and that isn't what BMW says you put yourself at risk.

 

For some the value of the warranty isn't worth the expense of BMW defined service, performed by a dealer or otherwise. I can see that view, but I don't share it. I can't however see potentially creating a warranty issue by performing service that is not required.

 

This is all complicated by the FD oil change interval change. One could make the argument that BMW doesn't know how often to change fluids, and that the Tranny really does need to be changed. If we were seeing tranny problems regularly this might make sense, but that doesn't seem to be a big issue.

[krussell]

Even better,get the Jim VonBaden maintainence DVD.

 

http://www.jimvonbaden.com/page1.aspx

 

JR356

 

The website points out that the manual is designed to enhance your knowledge, but is not comprehensive. It further suggests that you have the maintenance manual as well. I'd suggest the definitive BMW reference first, then the Baden manual if you can't figure out how to do what BMW prescribes.

[JR356]

Hi,

 

What you say is correct,it is ideal to have both.

 

BUT,German shop manuals are notoriously simplified and are designed to add to the Tech's knowledge,that they gained in school,they are not really designed for DIY folks.

 

This is where the JVB and other step by step processes posted here and elsewhere really shine.They walk the average owner step thru the process instead of getting the cryptic"assembly is reverse of disassembly"and similar phrases that are so famously funny about most factory manuals.

 

JR356

[Don_Eilenberger]

What's the motivation for changing it so early? The maintenance schedule calls for every two years or 25k mi. The specified replacement is Castrol SAF-XO. The torque for the filler screw and drain plug are 30nm.

The SAF-XO is for the REAR DRIVE only. The transmission is spec'd for a quality GL5 synthetic, and 80W-140 is allowed..

 

SAF-XO isn't available in the US - and is horribly expensive to get from the UK, I tried..

[Don_Eilenberger]

I gather you have not heard of the famous FD failures.

I thought this thread was about transmission oil..??

One of the reasons BMW recommends an initial change at the 600 mile service.

Of the rear-drive oil, NOT the transmission oil.

[krussell]

What's the motivation for changing it so early? The maintenance schedule calls for every two years or 25k mi. The specified replacement is Castrol SAF-XO. The torque for the filler screw and drain plug are 30nm.

The SAF-XO is for the REAR DRIVE only. The transmission is spec'd for a quality GL5 synthetic, and 80W-140 is allowed..

 

Well, the BMW service DVD must be wrong then, because that's where I got that information.

[Don_Eilenberger]

The SAF-XO is for the REAR DRIVE only. The transmission is spec'd for a quality GL5 synthetic, and 80W-140 is allowed..

Well, the BMW service DVD must be wrong then, because that's where I got that information.

I suspect YOUR BMW service DVD must be wrong - or defective or something:

 

 

GL5, the Castrol is used in the rear-drive.

[dslbrnr]

When I changed my trans oil at 700 Mi., I saw metal particals in the oil. The drain plug had no magnet on it to catch metal particals! The oil did look clean otherwise, but didn't appear to be synthetic. The BMW trans oil (75-140) was red and the stock fill looked like regular dino!

 

My bike shifts smoother and I feel better knowing all the metal is out. I used all new crush washers and torqued to spec. I doubt that I will ever have any warranty issues from an early drain. I also very much doubt the transmission came pre runnin from the factory, although it may have been checked for proper shifting and operation.

JMHO

[krussell]

The SAF-XO is for the REAR DRIVE only. The transmission is spec'd for a quality GL5 synthetic, and 80W-140 is allowed..

Well, the BMW service DVD must be wrong then, because that's where I got that information.

I suspect YOUR BMW service DVD must be wrong - or defective or something:

 

 

GL5, the Castrol is used in the rear-drive.

 

Hmmm. Maybe they've changed it? My DVD clearly calls for the Castrol. What year is your DVD? What model are you using. I used USA R1200RT on my 9/2007 and it calls for Castrol in the procedure itself and in the service data. I attached a screen shot of the service data.

 

[Rob F.]

What a mess of info BMW has out there. Non synthetic seems to be the way to go until the tranny has some miles on it, then, according to most shops, the Castrol SAF-XO synthetic can be used. My repair CD list the hypoid gear oil too (non-synthetic).

[Don_Eilenberger]

Hmmm. Maybe they've changed it? My DVD clearly calls for the Castrol. What year is your DVD? What model are you using. I used USA R1200RT on my 9/2007 and it calls for Castrol in the procedure itself and in the service data. I attached a screen shot of the service data.

Have to look for the date.. hang on.. No date I can find on the user interface - all the files are dated 08/01/2006. EDIT: Just saw at the top of the selection screen - 4th Edition, 06/2006.

 

The model shouldn't make any difference - I lookup via VIN# - for my October 06 build 2007 R1200R..

 

The Castrol gear oil IS probably fine - it's listed on the UK Castrol site as a GL5 synthetic oil (I seem to recall 75W-90)

 

Problem with using the Castrol oil - it's not available in the US and is horribly expensive to import from Europe. A Castrol dealer in the UK would sell it to me for about $25/liter - but it would cost $45 to ship it here... That's a bit excessive IMHO when BMW sells an "approved" oil for around $11/liter (synthetic.)

[Don_Eilenberger]

What a mess of info BMW has out there. Non synthetic seems to be the way to go until the tranny has some miles on it, then, according to most shops, the Castrol SAF-XO synthetic can be used. My repair CD list the hypoid gear oil too (non-synthetic).

Do the shops by you stock the SAF-XO? If so - do they ship?

[marcopolo]

If you want the Castrol SAF-XO, you might try getting it in Canada. My independent BMW Master tech uses it when he changes my final drive fluid. Yes, it's expensive stuff. He charged me $5 per 100 ml, or $15 for the FD fill (yes I realize the FD doesn't take 300 ml to re-fill). Although I didn't ask him, I presume he got it in Canada, and not from the UK. He might have even got it from a BMW dealer.

 

BTW, he has not used the SAF-XO in the transmission; he used 80W90 gear oil there.

[BigAdv]

Oh my, and the debate continues. The magical and mythical Castol SAF-XO. What is this mystic fluid? Well if any one really would like to know, it is a GL-5 rated 75-90 synthetic gear oil that was developed for the heavy truck transport market with a drain interval of 250 000 miles. Will other brands work? Yes, just use the same rating and viscosity. And by the way this is the same fluid that BMW cars use in their open diff.s and Land Rover as well. So if you really what some just try your locale BMW car dealer or Land Rover dealer. (LR # LRN7591)