People think I'm a cop

[apriorius]

I finally got around to installing the easternbeaver headlight modulator a week or two ago. Works very well; I see people notice me MUCH better. Sometimes too much better. A couple times people have actually started pulling over for me when I overtake them on the freeway. In general I'd say 5-10% of people slow down and start nerviously checking their rearview when I pull up behind them. I'm all for safe riding, but this is getting pretty annoying. Anyone have similar experiences?

[Lets_Play_Two]

I'm all for safe riding, but this is getting pretty annoying. Anyone have similar experiences?

 

Have you thought about how annoying it is to the people you are overtaking?

 

[russell_bynum]

I'm all for safe riding, but this is getting pretty annoying. Anyone have similar experiences?

 

Have you thought about how annoying it is to the people you are overtaking?

 

 

+1

[Matts_12GS]

I finally got around to installing the easternbeaver headlight modulator a week or two ago. Works very well; I see people notice me MUCH better. Sometimes too much better. A couple times people have actually started pulling over for me when I overtake them on the freeway. In general I'd say 5-10% of people slow down and start nerviously checking their rearview when I pull up behind them. I'm all for safe riding, but this is getting pretty annoying. Anyone have similar experiences?

 

It was an unexpected benefit of my modulator on my RT. A quick lane change, blink, blink, and they're usually freak out and move over.

 

I liked it!

[Lawman]

What annoys me is when oncoming traffic turns left across my lane and I have an 80,000 pound 18 wheeler one carlink behind me and I have to use maximum braking to avoid collision

[ESokoloff]

 

 

 

FWIW.... I like mine

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Anyone have similar experiences?

 

BTDT. My bike has low and high aux lights on it, so it looked vaguely like an authority vehicle even before I added the modulator:

 

 

Within a few months of adding the headlight modulator, I had had a number of vehicles abandon the passing lane as I approached from behind; many of them slowed way down once they got into the driving lane too.

 

At one point there was a city bus approaching in the opposite direction, and he had a headlight out. My modulator already had him wondering if I was a cop, and when I helpfully pointed to his burned-out headlight, he rapidly pulled over to the curb and brought the bus screeching to a halt.

 

Not long after that the modulator stopped working; I pitched it and did not replace it.

[Paul Mihalka]

I try to follow the simple life rule of doing to others the way you want them do to you, that also means don't do what you don't want done to you. I hate it when somebody is behind me with modulators, so I will never have them.

[apriorius]

Huh, I didn't know this issue was controversial.

 

I doubt you'll find a more considerate driver then me. Seriously. I deliberately avoid blocking the right lane at traffic signals so people can turn on the red. I use my blinkers. I yield. Etc. I'm not at all into annoying other drivers.

 

However, I've been injured once by an idiot turning left in front of me, and my own attentive riding probaly saves my ass at least once a week from stupid cagers on their cellphones. These things DO WORK; since the install I've noticed a huge decline in the number of people who pull out in front of me.

 

So I guess I'm on the fence for now...I hate to annoy other drivers, but I hate being in the hospital even more. If someone can point out a way to increase visibility in a manner less annoying for other drivers, I'd be interested.

[Francois_Dumas]

I finally got around to installing the easternbeaver headlight modulator a week or two ago. Works very well; I see people notice me MUCH better. Sometimes too much better. A couple times people have actually started pulling over for me when I overtake them on the freeway. In general I'd say 5-10% of people slow down and start nerviously checking their rearview when I pull up behind them. I'm all for safe riding, but this is getting pretty annoying. Anyone have similar experiences?

 

Why do you think it is forbidden in most countries except the US

[russell_bynum]

If someone can point out a way to increase visibility in a manner less annoying for other drivers, I'd be interested.

 

"Increasing visibility" means you are relying on someone else to ensure your wellbeing. Given that people routinely pull out in front of big ass fire trucks with their lights, siren, and horn on, do you really think there's anything you can do to make them notice you on your pathetic little motorbike?

[Firefight911]

If someone can point out a way to increase visibility in a manner less annoying for other drivers, I'd be interested.

 

"Increasing visibility" means you are relying on someone else to ensure your wellbeing. Given that people routinely pull out in front of big ass fire trucks with their lights, siren, and horn on, do you really think there's anything you can do to make them notice you on your pathetic little motorbike?

 

Can I get an Amen!?!? You have no idea how true a statement that is!!!!

[Paul Mihalka]

Even so I do my best to ride like I was invisible, lately I did something to the bike that seems to work a bit. On my GS I installed two huge yellow (!) driving lights which are on all the time. They are aimed low so nobody blinks at me, but I am getting the kind of reaction from cars like described by modulator users. I think for a moment they just dont know what it is so they don't turn left, don't drive out of the driveway, or do move over a lane. I don't count on it but it is a minor improvement.

[eddd]

If someone can point out a way to increase visibility in a manner less annoying for other drivers, I'd be interested.

 

"Increasing visibility" means you are relying on someone else to ensure your wellbeing. Given that people routinely pull out in front of big ass fire trucks with their lights, siren, and horn on, do you really think there's anything you can do to make them notice you on your pathetic little motorbike?

 

Can I get an Amen!?!? You have no idea how true a statement that is!!!!

 

I'll give you an Amen, Phil!

 

But....

 

What irks me to no end, is when they do see or hear me in that big red fire truck, but they don't pull over and stop. They just kind of slow down and halfway pull off the road.

 

Now I'm getting showered by rocks from the shoulder of the road. I can't pass because of oncoming traffic, and the moron is driving 20 mph slower than he/she was before!

 

I'd be happier if they just got back in the lane, and drove the speed limit in front of me! Their feeble attempt to get out of the way does nothing but slow me down!

 

(End of hijack and rant. I feel better now. )

[MattP]

Given that people routinely pull out in front of big ass fire trucks with their lights, siren, and horn on, do you really think there's anything you can do to make them notice you on your pathetic little motorbike?

 

A second amen to that one. Having ridden an RT in both LEO and civilian capacties, I can tell you that most people are doing a pretty decent job of piloting their cage... HOWEVER, for the 5% that HAVE NOT A CLUE, it doesn't matter if your headlight is flashing or if you have $700 worth of flashing LEDs or if you were riding with a giant pink gorilla suit with your hair on fire, they (and I can tell you the demographic in the Austin area if you really want to know) WILL NOT SEE YOU, and what's worse, don't give a damn about seeing you. Sorry for the soap box. I think the modulator is more annoying that anything. After dodging cars and pondering why lights and sirens don't work, I ride my civilian RT with the high bean on during the day and assume that anyone that can pull into my path probably will.

[Lawman]

I'm confused...Is the modulator so annoying that one can't ignore it or is it so useless that one can't see it?

[russell_bynum]

I'm confused...Is the modulator so annoying that one can't ignore it or is it so useless that one can't see it?

 

It is annoying to those who notice it. Those who don't notice it, aren't annoyed by it. They also aren't deterred by it.

 

I can say this much, I've never noticed a bike because of the modulator. But I've been annoyed plenty of times by some asshat riding along behind me for miles and miles with their headlight flashing obnoxiously in my mirror.

[russell_bynum]

I ride my civilian RT with the high bean on during the day and assume that anyone that can pull into my path probably will.

 

Ugh. That's only slightly less annoying that people who ride with a headlight modulators.

[apriorius]

Moderator's Edit: Personal attacks will not be tolerated.

[apriorius]

OK, I may pull the damn thing, or at least install a kill switch and just use it during dusk hours. I've never been bothered by one when driving my cage, but I seem to be in the minority here.

 

BTW, adding safety equipment to make yourself more visible and riding carefully are not mutually exclusive. That's a hell of an assumption you're making there.

[Jeff98362]

Even so I do my best to ride like I was invisible, lately I did something to the bike that seems to work a bit. On my GS I installed two huge yellow (!) driving lights which are on all the time. They are aimed low so nobody blinks at me, but I am getting the kind of reaction from cars like described by modulator users. I think for a moment they just dont know what it is so they don't turn left, don't drive out of the driveway, or do move over a lane. I don't count on it but it is a minor improvement.

 

I make the same observations using the headlight modulator.

 

I agree with those who say the light may irritate some people, and I like to be considerate. There are many things people do related to driving which irritate me, such as turning in front of me, following too closely, not signaling, not paying attention, and other more serious things that kill us daily. Additionally, I dislike "thumping" cars with loud music, loud pipes (all vehicles), loose or uncovered loads, etc. No one asked me if I minded, and we share the same public road.

 

If someone does not like my headlight modulator, I apologize. I believe it helps keep me alive and I will keep it in my "survival tool box" with ATGATT, regular ERC, etc.

[russell_bynum]

I agree with those who say the light may irritate some people, and I like to be considerate. There are many things people do related to driving which irritate me, such as turning in front of me, following too closely, not signaling, not paying attention, and other more serious things that kill us daily. Additionally, I dislike "thumping" cars with loud music, loud pipes (all vehicles), loose or uncovered loads, etc. No one asked me if I minded, and we share the same public road.

 

Yeah, but the deal with modulators: They annoy the people that you don't have to worry about.

[Lawman]

I'm assuming the driver of this SUV did not see this cyclist..Would this driver have been less likely, or more likely to have seen the biker with a modulator..You say it would not have made a difference..I say it might have..But we'll never know...I'm about safety and I just don't see that my modulator makes me less safe..I am convinced that it has prevented people from pulling out in front of me that otherwise would have.

 

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/5336945.html

[AdventurePoser]

...if you have $700 worth of flashing LEDs or if you were riding with a giant pink gorilla suit with your hair on fire...

 

You've seen me on the road??

 

Steve in So Cal

[russell_bynum]

.You say it would not have made a difference

 

No I didn't.

 

I said people pull out in front of fire trucks with their lights, siren, and horn going. If you think you can be more conspicuous than a fire truck on your motorcycle, have at it.

 

Otherwise, don't count on anyone noticing you, no matter how annoying you are.

[AdventurePoser]

OK, I may pull the damn thing, or at least install a kill switch and just use it during dusk hours. I've never been bothered by one when driving my cage, but I seem to be in the minority here.

 

BTW, adding safety equipment to make yourself more visible and riding carefully are not mutually exclusive. That's a hell of an assumption you're making there.

 

Hey Eric,

 

If you like your headlight modulators keep 'em. There is no shortage of opinions here, if you haven't noticed!

 

Steve in So Cal

[Paul Mihalka]

Even so I do my best to ride like I was invisible, lately I did something to the bike that seems to work a bit. On my GS I installed two huge yellow (!) driving lights which are on all the time. They are aimed low so nobody blinks at me, but I am getting the kind of reaction from cars like described by modulator users. I think for a moment they just dont know what it is so they don't turn left, don't drive out of the driveway, or do move over a lane. I don't count on it but it is a minor improvement.

 

I make the same observations using the headlight modulator.

 

I agree with those who say the light may irritate some people, and I like to be considerate. There are many things people do related to driving which irritate me, such as turning in front of me, following too closely, not signaling, not paying attention, and other more serious things that kill us daily. Additionally, I dislike "thumping" cars with loud music, loud pipes (all vehicles), loose or uncovered loads, etc. No one asked me if I minded, and we share the same public road.

 

If someone does not like my headlight modulator, I apologize. I believe it helps keep me alive and I will keep it in my "survival tool box" with ATGATT, regular ERC, etc.

The point I'm trying to make is that my two big lights call attention to me without being irritating to anybody.

[Hermes]

I have a different angle on the use of modulators.

 

My wife, suffering from Asthma, had a severe attack in the middle of the night. I packed her into the car and flashing every possible light, I raced to the hospital 5km away. I did not notice much during those few desperate minutes, except that cars were actually pulling over, making room, and I thought if a cop sees me running a red at full speed, flashing all lights, he'd know that there is an emergency and he might possibly even assist.

 

The moral here is, let's not cry wolf. If we use modulators or similar attention getters needlessly, what option would signify a genuine emergency.

 

$0.02 Canadian

 

Jurgen

[russell_bynum]

The point I'm trying to make is that my two big lights call attention to me without being irritating to anybody.

 

Right. They're aimed low, so they don't bother people, and they're yellow, which makes them stand out from all of the other white lights.

 

And...you ride with the mindset that nobody can see you anyway, which is why you're still here after a gazillion miles.

[MattP]

I ride my civilian RT with the high bean on during the day and assume that anyone that can pull into my path probably will.

 

Ugh. That's only slightly less annoying that people who ride with a headlight modulators.

 

Seriously??? Wow. To each their own, I guess. My line of thinking is that 1) It's free, 2) It's easily adapeted to the situation (i.e., if I'm behind someone for a protracted period of time, I'll switch to low beam), and 3) It lacks the "cry wolf" factor while offering a little bit of extra conspicuity.

 

But hey, what do I know. Buy a euroswitch and turn yours off completely if it makes you happy.

[MattP]

And Eric, take all this crap with a grain of salt. Your head is in the game, and that's about all that counts.

[Bonkorama]

Heres what I do:

 

When im approaching an intersection thayt has cars turning left in front of me, and there are more staged to do so after I ( hopefully) pass thru the intersection...

I simply flash my high beam 2 times from normal beam, and slow down enough so that evasive action can be accomplished if It would be come nessesary to do so.

The flashing of the high beams is enough to even occasionally get a high-beam-double-flash response from the car waiting to turn left. I guess thats the equivalent of "I saw you , you A**hole."

 

If there are cars obviously waiting for me to pass thru, having stayed in a stationary position long enough to make me feel comfortable enought to skip the high-beam flash, i do, but i dont pass thru any intersection without complete vigalence to the cars turning.

 

Here in LA, thats just insane.

 

Also the other cars that have become just as much as a hazard are the wonderful drivers turning onto the street you are on without ever stopping for the red light they have.

 

Right-turn-on-red has become, just-friggin-go-already-on-red-dont-stop-or-slow down.

 

Motorcycling takes as much smarts as it does dexterity and courage.

[russell_bynum]

I ride my civilian RT with the high bean on during the day and assume that anyone that can pull into my path probably will.

 

Ugh. That's only slightly less annoying that people who ride with a headlight modulators.

 

Seriously??? Wow. To each their own, I guess. My line of thinking is that 1) It's free, 2) It's easily adapeted to the situation (i.e., if I'm behind someone for a protracted period of time, I'll switch to low beam), and 3) It lacks the "cry wolf" factor while offering a little bit of extra conspicuity.

 

Would you like it if cars drove around with their high beams on all the time?

 

 

But hey, what do I know. Buy a euroswitch and turn yours off completely if it makes you happy.

 

Funny you should say that...I've commented several times that I'd considered doing just that on my RT. I had two sets of aux lights..PIAA 1100X's under the oil cooler aimed very low (to augment the low beam), and PIAA 910's on EMP brackets over the mirrors aimed slightly above the high beam. My Euroswitch was wired to allow me to have normal lights, normal lights + 1100X's, and normal lights plus 1100X's and 910's. The 1100X's were used pretty much full time after dark (they were aimed low enough that they didn't seem to bother anyone), but the 910's were only used out in the middle of nowhere with no traffic around. During the day, I normally ran with all the aux lights off. And there were several traffic situations (mostly lane splitting in very heavy traffic) where I would have liked a fourth option: No lights. so that I could minimize the possibility of being spotted.

[Baba_ORiley]

OK, I may pull the damn thing, or at least install a kill switch and just use it during dusk hours. I've never been bothered by one when driving my cage, but I seem to be in the minority here.

 

A kill switch?! How do you have that thing installed? It should only function on your high-beams and there should be a photocell installed to disable it at dusk (so it can't modulate when highbeams are used in the dark). Either simply switching to low beam, or covering up the photocell should easily turn it off.

 

I got a headlight modulator on my bike and for the reason you originally mentioned (cars mistaking the bike for a LEO vehicle), I really don't use it. Of course the fact I ride a black and white RT-P is a big part of the equation. I'm not totally against modulators, but I no longer favor them as much as I used to. The fact I've got decent supplemental lighting on my RT-P is probably the secondary reason I don't see the need to use the modulator anymore on my bike.

 

But things used to be different. The modulator came off of my old bike, a Suzuki cruiser, and I used a lot of the time on that bike. I perceived that it did help people notice me, but I was sensitive to the fact it could irritate others on the road. So in situations like riding with a group of bikes or being on a freeway, I did not see the benefits outweighing the irritations to others. When I did use the modulator, it was when I was riding solo on suburban streets where the danger of having a car left turn in front of me, or pull out from a side street was likely.

[bobbybob]

Apparently the meaning of "annoying" is very subjective, because I have had modulators following behind me and they didn't bother me in the least. The folks that are so annoyed by modulators must be either 1) very high strung or 2)their nerves are shot! Or both. WHAT is so annoying about a light that sorta blinks...especially if you're a motorcyclist and KNOW exactly what it is (i.e. it ain't an emerg. vehicle) ??

If it's legal, and it makes cagers (at least more than usual) see me, I say go for it.

[russell_bynum]

Or both. WHAT is so annoying about a light that sorta blinks...especially if you're a motorcyclist and KNOW exactly what it is (i.e. it ain't an emerg. vehicle) ??

 

It's the visual equivalent of driving along honking your horn repeatedly.

[MattP]

Would you like it if cars drove around with their high beams on all the time?

 

If it were during the day, and there were a legitmate need, then NO I wouldn't mind a bit. That's a bad comparison anyway- the reason we propose to do things like install a modulator, ride with the high beam on, add additional lights, etc. is because we're at a disadvantage due to size. So asking if cars did the same thing is kind of an apples and oranges comparison, don't you think?

 

REGARDLESS of our respective opinion, I would like to put a POSITIVE spin on this topic and say that I appreciated Eric's line of thinking- he's trying to NOT get waxed while enjoying his ride, and there's nothing in the whole green world wrong with that.

[MattP]

...BUT if there is something wrong with it, I'm sure a certain cheery admin will happily point it out for us.

[bobbybob]

Or both. WHAT is so annoying about a light that sorta blinks...especially if you're a motorcyclist and KNOW exactly what it is (i.e. it ain't an emerg. vehicle) ??

 

It's the visual equivalent of driving along honking your horn repeatedly.

 

 

I disagree that a light "modulating" is anywhere close to being annoying as a horn blowing...but like I said, it is apparently subjective. Take a nerve pill and fugetabboutit.

[russell_bynum]

...BUT if there is something wrong with it, I'm sure a certain cheery admin will happily point it out for us.

 

[StuGotz]

WoW!!!

 

all I can say at this point is great topic...

[russell_bynum]

If it were during the day, and there were a legitmate need, then NO I wouldn't mind a bit. That's a bad comparison anyway- the reason we propose to do things like install a modulator, ride with the high beam on, add additional lights, etc. is because we're at a disadvantage due to size. So asking if cars did the same thing is kind of an apples and oranges comparison, don't you think?

 

I guess that's where we split ways. I don't see it as a legitimate "need". In that context, it is equally annoying for cars to drive around with their high beam on as it is for bikes. (I guess cars would be worse since they've got two headlights.)

 

From a "fellow road user" perspective, I can tell you that every time a cruiser passes the other way on a 2-lane with all three big-ass headlights on, the closer they get, the more I have to look away. If causing someone who's heading towards them at a 140mph closure rate to look away is "Safe", then I guess they're in good shape.

 

I had one time when some idiot on an R1150RT came around a corner on Ortega Highway and met me head-on with some big-ass lights over the mirrors blazing. I couldn't see what they were, but judging by the spots I was seeing for the next few seconds, I'd guess PIAA 910's or the big Hella's (FF50's? I forget the model). All I could do was squint and hold my line, hoping the damn corner didn't tighten up. But anything in the name of safety, right?

[bobbybob]

If it were during the day, and there were a legitmate need, then NO I wouldn't mind a bit. That's a bad comparison anyway- the reason we propose to do things like install a modulator, ride with the high beam on, add additional lights, etc. is because we're at a disadvantage due to size. So asking if cars did the same thing is kind of an apples and oranges comparison, don't you think?

 

I guess that's where we split ways. I don't see it as a legitimate "need". In that context, it is equally annoying for cars to drive around with their high beam on as it is for bikes. (I guess cars would be worse since they've got two headlights.)

 

From a "fellow road user" perspective, I can tell you that every time a cruiser passes the other way on a 2-lane with all three big-ass headlights on, the closer they get, the more I have to look away. If causing someone who's heading towards them at a 140mph closure rate to look away is "Safe", then I guess they're in good shape.

 

I had one time when some idiot on an R1150RT came around a corner on Ortega Highway and met me head-on with some big-ass lights over the mirrors blazing. I couldn't see what they were, but judging by the spots I was seeing for the next few seconds, I'd guess PIAA 910's or the big Hella's (FF50's? I forget the model). All I could do was squint and hold my line, hoping the damn corner didn't tighten up. But anything in the name of safety, right?

 

Actually I've been "dazzled" a couple of times in the daylight by those HID type driving lights--but those (to me) are still much more distracting than modulated lights. I just don't think modulated motorcyle headlights are bright enough to bother someone's vision in the daytime.

[Lawman]

Or both. WHAT is so annoying about a light that sorta blinks...especially if you're a motorcyclist and KNOW exactly what it is (i.e. it ain't an emerg. vehicle) ??

 

It's the visual equivalent of driving along honking your horn repeatedly.

 

Talk about an annoying horn..Have you ever been parked at a railroad crossing when a train went by?

[russell_bynum]

Or both. WHAT is so annoying about a light that sorta blinks...especially if you're a motorcyclist and KNOW exactly what it is (i.e. it ain't an emerg. vehicle) ??

 

It's the visual equivalent of driving along honking your horn repeatedly.

 

Talk about an annoying horn..Have you ever been parked at a railroad crossing when a train went by?

 

The train goes HOOOOONNNNNK. And then it's gone.

 

That guy behind me with his annoying flashing headlight has been sitting there on my bumper for 15 minutes.

[Lawman]

If it bothered me as much as it seems to bother you I would change lanes or let him pass.

[GregB]

I guess that's where we split ways. I don't see it as a legitimate "need"......

I had one time when some idiot on an R1150RT came around a corner on Ortega Highway and met me head-on with some big-ass lights over the mirrors blazing. I couldn't see what they were, but judging by the spots I was seeing for the next few seconds, I'd guess PIAA 910's or the big Hella's (FF50's? I forget the model). All I could do was squint and hold my line, hoping the damn corner didn't tighten up. But anything in the name of safety, right?

 

I agree about 1000% - any light that blinds oncoming traffic should be tracked down and smashed. Headlight modulators aren't quite that bad but lets smash them too! You have to be aware of what your actions look like to the other persons on the road.

[russell_bynum]

I just don't think modulated motorcyle headlights are bright enough to bother someone's vision in the daytime.

 

Bother someone's vision...in the sense that they're temporarily blinded and seeing spots, no. A modulator will not do that.

 

But they are tremendously distracting.

 

I basically have to consciously ignore my mirrors when someone's behind me with a spastic headlight flasher. Sometimes I'll even adjust the mirror away a little if they sit there long enough. Otherwise, I just find it too distracting. I've got the mirrors in my peripheral vision, and the flashing draws my attention there like it's something I need to see. The first time...before I've noticed it...that's not a bad thing. But as soon as I notice it, it starts becoming progressively more annoying.

 

Just like a horn. Honk the horn once to get someone's attention...no problem. Follow them for fifteen minutes going HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK HONK and see what happens.

 

You guys are, of course, free to do what you want on this one. I'm just telling you, I find them annoying. My non-riding co-workers find them annoying. I don't think they're particularly worthwhile.

 

And in case anyone's wondering, I've ridden a few friend's bikes with modulators in various traffic conditions, so I do know how it is to ride with one.

[russell_bynum]

If it bothered me as much as it seems to bother you I would change lanes or let him pass.

 

I'm all about that...that's one of my other big pet peeves (people who don't move over to let faster traffic pass). I' talking about running along in traffic where that's not really an option. I'm sitting there stuck in traffic just like everyone else, and some idiot on a bike is sitting there on my bumper with his headlight flashing.

 

 

I'll put it another way...If one of us posted a ride tale where we were riding along in traffic and someone came up behind us in a car and starting flashing their lights on and off constantly for miles and miles, there would be 168 posts with people bashing the "*sshole cager". But because it's a bike, it's all good.

[Mark K]

Hi, my name is Mark and I'm a high beam rider.....

 

I do dim them if I get behind traffic or in a neighborhood, for example. Nobody has ever flashed me or given be a dirty/annoyed look. We have more deer than cars on the road here anyway and the term "road rage" is not in our vernacular. Besides, the high beam on my '96 isn't exactly blinding day or night.

 

And for those keeping score -- I considered installing a modualtor at one time and after asking around, decided against it because of the 'annoyance' factor.