Ice. How does the bike handle it?

[EddyQ]

Last week on my morning commute I turned the corner and there was a frosted white wooded bridge. At 40mph, I straightened the bike and cruised over it without a slip.

 

Ok. I feel I was very lucky. I'm new to this cold riding stuff. The last time I was riding this cold was in the woods on a dirt bike (10 years ago) were wet frozen leaves sent the rear off at a 45 immediatly.

 

My question for all you winter riders. How does a RT respond to ice? Will it go over in an instance?? How do you folks deal with ice?

[Knifemaker]

Just consider yourself lucky...

[Patallaire]

The bike will handle it just fine, the rider, always a question. Do you tense up, do you drop throttle, shift your weight, brake, try to steer, downshift, accelerate, it,s a rider problem, not a bike problem. Best advise, stay off the ice, you will do one of the above by accident and then you will have one!

[Paul Mihalka]

If you hit ice in a turn, you are gone. If you see ice in a straight line pull in the clutch, no brake, no gas, stay loose and let the bike roll straight. When you get home change your undies (I do).

[Frank H. Wu]

Is there any reliable guide to when it is too cold and the risk of ice too high? Of course, I know 32 is the freezing point, but I'm talking about moisture, shade, and other factors. It can be 50 degrees and there can still be snow on the ground. I always figure if I can see any snow, it's too cold. But that standard is too risk-averse. I'd like to be out more often than that.

[Paul Mihalka]

What creates a very common bad situation here is snow on the side of a cleared road. Often we have a sunny 40 degree day and a freezing night. The snow melts in day time and runs into the road, then freezes at night. Worst time is early morning. The temperature gets above freezing, but you can still find icy spots.

[LDHack]

A fellow I know, also a very experienced rider, went down on frost recently. He's fine, luckly - but his bike is totaled. I've been on ice on two wheels, and it's worse than snow, which I've experienced more than once on two wheels.

 

I prefer to be out on the hack when there's a chance of slick roads. As you know, slick happens any time it's close to freezing, and of course, bridges are more prone to frosty conditions. Once the ground under the blacktop freezes, then the roads themselves are very prone to slick spots.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I deal with ice by chopping it up into 1 cc chunks and pouring a nice beverage over it.

 

Most of my bikes have dealt with ice by throwing whatever is sitting on them at it. I have gotten through a couple of patches of 20 to 30 feet of frozen snow melt but, if the need to change any aspect of the bike's direction or velocity comes up, you are toast, even any significant camber in the road can take you down.

[Keith S]

I agree with Ed. I live in Calgary and have dealt with ice. The only way I can explain what I do is "pull in the clutch, go neutral...no input" and if the road is flat and straight you have a good chance of getting through it. The snowmelt during the day and the freeze during the night is a real danger and I pay special attention to the roadside conditions the day before I decide to ride to work during the winter.

 

Keith

[LuckyLeif]

I agree with Ed. I live in Calgary and have dealt with ice. The only way I can explain what I do is "pull in the clutch, go neutral...no input" and if the road is flat and straight you have a good chance of getting through it. The snowmelt during the day and the freeze during the night is a real danger and I pay special attention to the roadside conditions the day before I decide to ride to work during the winter.

 

Keith

 

Of course if you're already heeled over, even just a tiny bit, due to riding a corner, you're goose is cooked -- hello lowside!!! I live in the eastern side of the Blue Ridge Mnts -- I'm really apprehensive about morning rides in the winter. Temps can be well into the 40s but snow melt can ice up over night and if the ice is in the shade, it will persist as late as noon. One of my fellow MSF instructors hit a patch of black ice as he rode his Wing thru a corner at town speeds (30 mph). He low-sided and slid into a stone wall. Compound fracture of femur and $4500 damage to bike. He was out of the saddle for at least 4 months due to rehab. Still walks with a limp 4 years later. Made quite an impression on students as he taught the range using a cane to move around(no demos).

[elkroeger]

The bike handles it poorly as you'd suppose. All you need is a kickstand (park it), or a sidecar. Without that, slow, easy and upright is the name of the game. Black ice (water ice) is one thing, but since frost is comprised of ice crystals precipitated from the air, there is usually some small amount of traction available between the crystals. Emphasis on "small". As others have stated, frost will appear when the air temp is acutally above 32F, since air moves around and the frost will stay put for a while. Those painted surfaces like crosswalk stripes can pick up frost faster than the actual pavement. Cracks and joints will frost up faster than the middles of slabs. Bridges of course get cold faster too. Stay in the car tire tracks as much as possible, and in the most heavily used lanes. Lesser used lanes, such as turn lanes are also hazard zones. Keep an eye out for sand that the DOT has put down. Much more than frost and it's time to catch a ride in a car. That said, you can negotiate frosty patches, but be prepared to dump it. If you're doing things right, it'll be a low speed dump. Just let it drop too, you can't walk home on a broken ankle. It's a dangerous business, so don't be afraid to park it. Of course there are those guys in the great white north who ride all winter, but that's a different sport altogether. Good luck!

[eddd]

The best advice I can give comes from encounters years ago that have stayed with me to this day. If you encounter ice you are likely encounter more. Retrace your path and park it, or better yet, just find a place to park it where you are at. Thinking it was only one patch can be a huge mistake. I never dumped on ice or snow, but the pucker factor was so intense that I never want to go through that again.

 

Memories...no NIGHTMARES of Gillette, Wyoming in June of 1977.

[Linz]

It's threads like this which make me appreciate how good it is to live in Australia where I don't have to winter my bikes, worry about ice and snow etc.

 

Not boasting here, just appreciating what we have...

 

Summers can be hell with the heat and humidity though... The last BMW Safari I rode on (2003 on the Eyre Peninsula in South Australia) we had 50 degrees Celsius temperatures to ride through (122 Fahrenheit) in my one piece Roadcrafter suit.

 

You don't get everything your own way do you?

 

Sorry for the hi-jack. Back to your regularly scheduled programming...

 

Linz

[lawnchairboy]

Shawn, Chris Kinney and I all hit frozen melt water while scouting out El P routes in 2005 or 2006, can't remember. It was probably 20 feet worth or so on a non-curving segment of slightly downhill paved surface as I recall. By the time I heard Shawn on the FRS, I was crapping my pants riding through it. No input was my immediate (in)action and we all went through OK.

 

By the way, I prefer ice only in my beverages.

[bogthebasher]

I also live in Calgary and really am cautious about ice...definitely agree about the whole 'go neutral' approach as a way to survive frosty ice. Black ice usually gives you no chance because you don't see it on time. As to the temperature to watch for, my BMW car warns me when the outside temperature crosses 3 degrees C.

[Bullett]

Yep. I discovered yesterday morning that the computer on my RT does the same thing. I started it up and it showed 35 degrees F and a flashing snowflake. I thought it was pretty cool.

[co_g30]

two incidents to reinforce points already made:

 

1. turning corner into neighborhood, surface slick/wet and slightly icy...speed perhaps 2-3mph, rear wheel slid out from under me, dumped me, felt bike hit my right ankle, right-side system case locking mechanism snapped off....bruise on right calf (I was lucky) and repair costs to the system case. Now if weather is iffy, I make extra wide turn so that I hit the entrance to the neighborhood at 90 degree angle and pull in the clutch to coast through the "possibly slick" portion of the entrance.

 

1. Going down mountain road, on snow...yes, should have turned around but by the time I realized it, it was too damn late, had to keep going. Ever try a u-turn on snow while pointed downhill? : (

My mistake, trying to kill speed even further on an incline that looked steep, noticed I was in second, downshifted to first, again rear wheel slipped out from under me. There I am sliding down the hill, watching my RT pivot on its right side valve cover sliding down in front of me! Luckily, no damage save for some scratches to belly pan.

 

So, smooth is the key. No sudden changes in vectors and pull in the clutch while on ice! That and don't ride if you have ice on the roads! But then again, sometimes the urge to ride is pretty overwhelming.

[Ken H.]

I just dumped my R1200GS on frost through a corner two weeks ago. On ice in a lean - forgetityourdown.

[DouglasR]

I agree completely with all that's been said here - go neutral or go down. If it catches you unawares in a turn or even a banked or crowned section you are in trouble.

 

That said, I have ridden many times in snow and ice on my dirt bikes and dual-sports. My RT and GS are just too big and heavy (and expensive to fix!) to risk riding on ice or snow.

 

In real Winter conditions I've ridden many times with studded snow tires on my motorcycles and bicycles. There are a number of manufacturers that produce factory-studded tires for dual-sport bikes but I don't know if they are available in tire sizes for bikes like the RT or GS. There are also varying grades of studding, various sizes and densities of studs. I have a set for my mountain bicycle that have 40 low-profile studs per tire and that works great for road riding (the center is free of studs for a quiet ride and lower rolling resistance). I've seen 80 studs per tire and think that's just too much, they'll rattle your teeth out of your head the ride is so rough. The studs are usually concentrated on the outer section of the tires so that when you heel over you roll off the stud-free center and onto the studs when you need them most. When I was a kid we took old knobbies and made our own studded tires with screws poked through from the inside.

 

I like this set-up a lot:

 

 

Fun, fun, fun!

 

Check out ADVRider.com and search for threads about winter riding, there are a bunch of them. Max BMW even sponsors ice races and there are threads about that. Like I said, I don't know if you can get them for an RT but I do know they are commercially available for many bikes.

 

Doug

[Beemr69]

Seeing that pic it could get snarly quick doing tire changes

[Survived-til-now]

Frank

 

I have dropped an R1150RT twice on ice and my R1200RT once on diesel - once they go, they go quick

 

Once I had a sudden hailstorm in March when I was out on the bike. The ground was covered in slushy ice - I make 12 of the 14 miles back home in the stuff until I crested a small hill and the sudden negative gravity was enough and down she went. What was memorable was that I found myself pulled along behind her by my heated waistcoat lead, then the bike suddenly slowed and I overtook it - now proceeding with the bike coming up behind me. All very graceful. The saving bit was the slush and I got away with just a scrape to the cylinder cover and wing mirror. I was completely covered in ice and dirt but otherwise OK.

 

The second time was black ice. I kidded myself the road was OK, rounded a corner 500 metres from home and found a tiny patch of ice.

 

I am much more wary now but the other day I still commuted to the city 62 miles away and it was minus 3 deg C when I set off BUT it had been bone dry for days and I think that is the critical different to watch for. If there is moisture about I'm very dubious about riding even when the temperature is plus 2 degrees C. I check the car for ice and the grass - best to err on the side of caution.

 

Andy

[BigEasy]

The go neutral thing sometimes works but is by no means a sure thing. I was doing a he!! ride back to Norfolk from Indianapolis in my Navy days when I got caught in a snow storm in the mountains of WV. It's a long story I won't bore you with but as I was going down a pretty steep grade I spyed a bridge ahead @ about 45mph. I did the clutch in pucker up and hold on program. Every thing was cool till about 3/4 of the way across when the bike started to cross up a little bit, not radically just a tad. I think the back wheel was likely slowing a little faster than the front due to mechanical drag from the chain/engine. I did my best Jay Springsteen imitation and held on. As soon as I hit dry pavement it straightend right out. I do not in any way think my actions were smart, I think the only thing that saved my behind was several years of MX riding, and as grandma used to say "God looks out for fools and children". Oh yeah, and I was riding a widow maker Kawasaki KZ1000LTD My total milage on the bike consisted of the miles from my house to that point in the ride. I literally had not ridden it until the day before when the friend I bought it from delivered it to my house, I loaded my kit and hit the road.

[Paul De]

Badly!

 

It only works well with a short track racer set up with studded tires. Two feet up full lock power slides are pretty easy to master. with a heavy street bike with street tires on ice covered pavement....not so much!

 

I'm pretty hard core but there is a limit where it just gets too risky and it is time to revert to a cage. Besides, Winter is for adding major farkles to the ride!!!

 

Hey Douglas, I used to race them spikes too. Tough to get the tires balanced and lived through some monster speed wobbles that left brown streaks in the shorts. But the 100% traction is awsome!!! Oh yeah, I quit it because it hurts enough to crash, but it is way worse to have the guy on your 6 turn you into fresh ground beef. Stick with the studs man, it more like a riding on road surface.

[Lone_RT_rider]

Shawn, Chris Kinney and I all hit frozen melt water while scouting out El P routes in 2005 or 2006, can't remember. It was probably 20 feet worth or so on a non-curving segment of slightly downhill paved surface as I recall. By the time I heard Shawn on the FRS, I was crapping my pants riding through it. No input was my immediate (in)action and we all went through OK.

 

By the way, I prefer ice only in my beverages.

 

Yeah... that was an "Oh $*&%" moment if there ever was one. Pull in the clutch and pray. *sigh*

 

Shawn

[EddyQ]

Why . . . thank you all. As I suspected, the cleaning of my shorts wasn't for nothing. My RT is getting very close to its winter nap. I'm hoping for another 50 degree day to pop up. So far though, the NE is getting rather winter like. Thanks for the great stories !!

[RobT]

This is from a recent ride through the alps. Snow covered black ice. Three bikes out of ten dropped-slow speed. You can see the slide marks from where my bike slid. After riding through the ice and snow for two days...it became second nature. Key certainly is slow and steady and no brakes! Weather eventually improved and we could do some real riding!

[Charles Elms]

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