Pridmore? Schwantz? Code? A comparison

[David]

I recently had the opportunity to evaluate Reg Pridmore's CLASS school, and previously I'd done the same for Keith Code's Superbike School and Kevin Schwantz's Suzuki School held exclusively at Road Atlanta.

 

I decided it might be helpful to rank them from best to worst in twenty categories. If you can think of other categories, throw them into this thread and I'll keep the list going. If you've taken more than one of these (so that you can honestly compare) and your experience was different than mine, let's get our heads together and compile something as accurate as possible so that our fellow riders can make an informed choice when seeking outside professional training.

 

Here, then, are the subjective rankings of each of the three, best to worst.

 

Comfortable (i.e., Not Intimidating)

Pridmore

Schwantz

Code

 

Quality of Tech Inspection

Code

Schwantz

Pridmore

 

Structured and Predictable

Code

Schwantz

Pridmore

 

Instructor Riding Ability

Schwantz

Code

Pridmore

 

Personal Involvement of Founder

Code

Pridmore

Schwantz

 

Personalized Feedback

Code

Schwantz

Pridmore

 

Track Selection

Code

Pridmore

Schwantz

 

Course Control

Code

Schwantz

Pridmore

 

Classroom Learning

Code

Schwantz

Pridmore

 

Off Track Learning Tools

Code

Pridmore

Schwantz

 

AV Training Aids

Pridmore

Schwantz

Code

 

Syllabus

Schwantz

Code

Pridmore

 

Metrics of Your Improvement

Code

Pridmore

Schwantz

 

Help with Body Position

Code

Pridmore

Schwantz

 

Help with Braking

Pridmore

Schwantz

Code

 

Help with Lines

Code

Schwantz

Pridmore

 

Help with Suspension

Schwantz

Pridmore

Code

 

Conducive to Repeat Training Levels

Code

Pridmore

Schwantz

 

Amount of Track Time

Pridmore

Schwantz

Code

 

Overall Value

Code

Pridmore

Schwantz

 

Here's another way to look at the rankings, in perhaps a more useable form.

 

Code is the overall winner and ranks highest in:

 

• Quality of the tech inspection, meaning enhanced safety for you and others.
  
• Structured learning. For example, each learning session discusses one major point; course control reminds you of that before you leave the pit; the instructors look for it; and there's a debrief afterwards.
  
• Involvement of Code himself. He's everywhere and his stamp is on everything. He's also an excellent teacher. Pridmore strikes me as weary of it all and he's more of a motivational speaker than a teacher. Kevin's teaching is reluctant and boosted by Lance Holtz.
  
• Personalized feedback. There's an enormous amount of it. It's non-stop. Compare that with the Pridmore folks, where I rode all day and never received a single comment except from Reg who was complimentary. But I'm not there to be complimented but to be informed of my weaknesses. Schwantz is in the middle.
  
• Track selection since they hold them in many places.
  
• Course control. They are consummate professionals. Pridmore stuff is pretty lax compounded by silly passing rules which are designed to keep you safer but actually make it more dangerous. Schwantz is a very close second to Code in this category, but the Code folks tolerate absolutely no nonsense.
  
• Classroom learning. It's clear, direct, and engaging. Schwantz is a close second. Pridmore is rambling and anecdotal by comparison.
  
• Off-track learning tools (i.e., various static bikes). Pridmore has a better lean bike, though it's static.
  
• Metrics for improvement, specifically lap times. Schwantz is last only because the course is only taught at Road Atlanta (in the US) and it's a difficult track on which to use your own timer. Please note that I'm not talking about racing--just steady improvement and consistent lap times.
  
• Help with body positioning.
  
• Help with lines.
  
• Conducive to repeated training levels as you go back.
  

 

Pridmore is the second overall winner and ranks highest in these categories (but ranked a solid second in eight others):

 

• Not being intimidating.
  
• AV training tools, which are excellent. Schwantz is a close second. Code could use some really serious improvement, and it's shocking to see how well constructed the rest of the school is compared to their lack of good AV tools.
  
• Help with braking.
  
• Amount of track time.
  

 

Schwantz ranks the lowest of the three, but is still a fantastic value and experience. They rank highest in:

 

• Instructor riding ability. You'll ride with Kevin himself and a half dozen others that you'll watch Sunday afternoon on TV. It's not that they are better teachers, because they aren't, but following Kevin or Jamie James or Trey Batey or a bunch of others is a remarkable experience.
  
• Syllabus, by far and away the best.
  
• Help with suspension.
  

 

I still haven't sampled Jason Pridmore's Star school; Freddie Spencer's Las Vegas school; Team Hammer; or Grodsky's street riding school. Hopefully I'll be able to some day, all in the interest of research, of course!

[russell_bynum]

Just curious...on the "not Intimidating" aspect...what specifically did the other two schools do that made them more comfortable than Code?

 

Hopefully I'll be able to some day, all in the interest of research, of course!

 

Yeah, it's a tough life, isn't it?

[David]

Just curious...on the "not Intimidating" aspect...what specifically did the other two schools do that made them more comfortable than Code?

 

Schwantz is smaller and run by good ol' Southern boys. I've found that none of the days there on the track brought "macho I'm going to show you how to ride" types.

 

Pridmore goes out of the way to talk about street, slow paces, etc. There don't appear to be as many "go fast" types, which means that getting passed is not as much an event for the newbie. Further, at Pridmore you get to pick your own group--there's no pressure. Finally, the goal is smooth, whereas the goal at Code seems to be a tiny bit of "fast"--brought there by the students, not the instruction itself.

[firemac3]

Did you ride your bike or theirs? I've been thinking about doing the superbike school at road america. I've found mr. code's books helpful. especially totw II.

[David]

Did you ride your bike or theirs? I've been thinking about doing the superbike school at road america. I've found mr. code's books helpful. especially totw II.

 

I've done both with the Code school. Twice on my bike and several times on theirs. The ZX-6R is a great bike for the track and they maintain them well.

 

Schwantz's contract only allows Suzukis, so you'll either ride one of their SV650 or GSX-R600 bikes or your own--as long as it's a Suzuki!

[StretchMark]

I can only compare Schwantz and Code. I agree on most of yours, however:

 

-Personalized feedback - Schwantz

I received far more feedback at Schwantz.

Probably a few contributing factors

-I took the 1-day class on a Monday that was not full.

-We had a 3:1 student:instructor ratio

- I was the ony one wearing a textile suit and they felt sorry for me

 

Body Position - Schwantz

Probably goes back to the 3:1 ratio. I got pointers after every session. Also, I only took level I & II of Code which doesn't get into body position much

 

I will add to a couple of your assessments.

 

Individual involvement - Code.

Keith Code greeted us in the parking lot, chatted with us in between sessions, and is just a really good speaker. Schwantz really struggled to get his points across.

 

Track Control - Code

Yes I can say from experience that they were absolutely "no nonsense" when it came to track safety.

 

Other areas I can think of:

 

Visualization Skills:

Code

Schwantz

 

Throttle Control:

Code

Schwantz

 

Overall Skills for Street Improvement/Safety:

Pridmore??

Code

Schwantz

 

Overall Skills for Track improvement:

Code

Schwantz

Pridmore??

[David]

Great points, Mark.

 

IBody Position - Schwantz

Probably goes back to the 3:1 ratio. I got pointers after every session. Also, I only took level I & II of Code which doesn't get into body position much.

 

Exactly right. Level III is mostly body position. Before that they want you to use just countersteering.

 

Track Control - Code

Yes I can say from experience that they were absolutely "no nonsense" when it came to track safety.

 

 

Other areas I can think of:

 

Visualization Skills:

Code

Schwantz

 

Throttle Control:

Code

Schwantz

 

Overall Skills for Street Improvement/Safety:

Pridmore??

Code

Schwantz

 

Overall Skills for Track improvement:

Code

Schwantz

Pridmore??

 

Agreed on all counts. Thanks for adding those categories.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

David,

I just re-read your points regarding the not intimidating aspect of the Code school and I would like to make something quite clear to others who are considering which school to attend.

 

Nothing in the Code curriculum or from the instructors will say that you should go fast. You go faster as a result of gaining more control of your motorcycle. Your reference to the "fast as brought by the students" is correct as the riding groups contain different levels of riders with differing goals. My group was not just level one but had other riders in there ranging from a girl who had almost zero miles on a street bike to a couple of go fast types who seemed to treat the class more as a track day than a learning experience.

 

That said, at no time did I feel pressured to go faster. My instructor did tow me through a section that was giving me trouble with a follow me gesture and that did help me quite a bit. I had been way slow through the 9-10 kink and he showed me that you can carry a good deal more speed there by being a bit more aggressive in the transition.

 

The rest of the time on the track I rode my own pace, which did increase markedly. I got passed by the same guys each session. I passed the same people each session. I did, to quote Dex, "Get my fangs out" once when I was balked by a guy who was parking in the turns during the last session and I just had to get by.

 

I intend to do quite a few more of these, with Code being my #1 choice. I am busy prepping a track bike now and will be ready come spring. My main reason for choosing Code over the others is the emphasis on one thing at a time. It seems to work quite well for me as even the level one class had brought a new understanding of riding and smoothness to my everyday ride.

 

Ed

[Voodoo]

Exactly right. Level III is mostly body position. Before that they want you to use just countersteering.

 

That's a pretty important point as well. Since each of Code's levels focuses on a specific set of skills, it really isn't until you've done three levels that you've got the "overall" picture. Now, that's not to say that that's a bad thing since the flip side of that statement is that you get a bunch more focus on each sub-set of skills than you would in a one-day course somewhere else - and there is no question that after each and every level, you have the potential to make huge improvements in your skills.

 

But, unless you are looking at a class curriculum as a long-term thing (which I believe you should), the strengths and weaknesses of each could be a bit skewed.