u - turns

[Lawman]

I have no trouble whatsoever making u-turns.....as long as I have at least one sq. acre (210' x 210') of smooth, dry, clean concrete with nothing else on it..

 

I am most comfortable making u-turns by having enough speed going into it that all I need do is pull in the clutch and make the turn or at least enough speed to nearly complete the turn... That works fine as long as there are no distractions and the area is large enough and little chance of something interrupting me before the turn is completed. But more often I find myself needing to make very low speed u-turns..Nothing works well here for me on this bike (R1200RT)..I sure don't want to stall the bike and I don't want to feather the clutch, and that pretty much leaves the duckwalk for me and that makes me feel like an idiot... I d be interested in hearing others techniques for making u-turns..such as use of back brake, engaging and disengaging the clutch, etc...

[marcopolo]

I always use the rear brake when making low-speed u-turns on my R12RT, ever since watching one of those "Ride Like A Pro" DVDs. Thank god the rear brake pedal is no longer linked to the front brakes (yeah, I know the reverse is true).

[Firefight911]

Counter balancing is part of the key here. Put your body and its weight to the outside of the turn. Basically, lean the bike and keep yourself upright while shifting a cheek to the outside.

 

Turn your head like Exorcist. You go where you look. Look left, go left. Look right, go right. Look down . . .

 

Feather the clutch. Control your speed with the clutch. A steady throttle hand and hovering in the friction zone. If the bike starts to feel as though it is falling into the turn, feed out some clutch and, perhaps, feed in a smidge of throttle.

 

Use the back brake if your speed is a bit too much.

 

Pull up YouTube and find some motorcop stuff. You will see some great examples of counterbalancing in them.

 

Practice, practice, practice. You will find, very quickly, that you are better in either the clockwise or counter-clockwise direction. This is many times a factor of your throttle hand positioning. You may need to play around with this during these maneuvers as you learn the technique that works best for you.

 

If all else fails, whip out the badge, shut down the road, and call it an investigation!!! Or a large area search!!

[Lawman]

If all else fails, whip out the badge, shut down the road, and call it an investigation!!! Or a large area search!!

 

Thanks Phil..

I'm trying to wean myself off this technique..

 

BTW..It takes me about 50% more space to turn around counterclockwise as it does clockwise..

 

You seem like a pretty smart guy regardless of what Whip says..

[Dave McReynolds]

Don't feel bad. At Torrey, Fernando was encouraged by someone to give a demonstration of slow speed turns on an RT, and of course the first thing he did was to stall the bike....after which, he gave a masterful demonstration of short radius turns within the width of the highway passing through Torrey. Not meaning to take anything away from Fernando's skill at all; I stand in awe of his skill. Just meaning to say that if he can stall the bike while giving a demo of slow speed turns, anybody could.

 

The only scratch I ever put on my RT was when I stalled it while starting off making a right turn from a stop. It stalled while leaned over and there was just no way I could keep it up. That doesn't seem to be such a problem with my K bike; I've never stalled it starting off from a stop.

 

Of course, if you feed your RT enough gas before you start letting out the clutch, it's not going to stall. But then if you do that habitually, you'll be replacing the clutch sooner or later, so I guess you take your choice.

[flars]

I don't have an R12, but I do know someone who does, and he stayed in a Holiday Inn Express in Athens, GA once.

My R1100RS will idle around a u-turn, using the rear brake to control the speed. I can do them in my driveway, and in a parking lot like the bike is on rails. Unfortunately, I have a tough time doing them on the street. It's one of them mental things...

Try practicing them in a parking lot, with the bike at idle. Then continue to do them, using the rear brake to slow the bike down a little.

It definitely is a mental thing. The bike will do it, but my brain won't allow it to do it consistently.

[BFish]

a lot depends on whether the u-turn is a captial U or lower-case (u). personally i prefer capital.

[Ben_Ricci]

Counter balancing is part of the key here. Put your body and its weight to the outside of the turn. Basically, lean the bike and keep yourself upright while shifting a cheek to the outside.

 

Turn your head like Exorcist. () You go where you look. Look left, go left. Look right, go right. Look down . . .

 

The secret to all this is what Phil said, but counterbalancing and looking where you're going are the keys to being able to make small radius turns. Speed is, as he said, controlled by clutch feathering and the rear brake. I love practicing this, well, because it comes in handy. Go to an empty parking lot and start just making ovals and when you gain confidence, do smaller Figure 8s. Give yourself at least the length of two spaces and the width of three at first, then narrow it down to two spaces wide and a midge more than two spaces deep. You'll be turning lock-to-lock in no time.

 

As a side note and under full disclosure, I should say I dropped my wife's F800 demonstrating my superiority at low speed turning. I stalled it at maximum lean and it just fell down. No damage done because I was able to keep it from really plopping over.

 

But the head turn with the countersteer is the secret ingredient.

[Whip]

Y'all don't understand.....

 

The Lawman does not believe in leaning his bike in any direction at any time. He rides his bike like he's on a tightrope.

 

 

You should see his tires......They look like they came off a 1908 model A pick-up.

 

I'd ride with him anywhere.

 

Whip

[jmseattle]

Echo advice above. Feather clutch and be steady on throttle -- leave it in the friction zone with slightly elevated RPM. Second gear can help to avoid the more abrupt on/off of first. Use R brake only to fine tune control at the margins. Head/eyes up and cranked around to look at where you want to go.

 

I took a 4-day slow speed course taught by a former instructor/motor officer at the WA State Patrol motor academy a couple of years ago. Most of the same cone work/patterns in the moto program. By the end, had learned a great deal and had mastered the course. However, in that course we used recycled Kawa 1000 police bikes. I am unable to reach the same level of low speed proficiency on my KGT as it is more top heavy and the lean forward seating position makes it harder for me to do the full lock turns in a comparable radius to the Kawasaki. I also am loathe to practice much on the GT as I fear toasting the dry clutch (unlike the nearly bullet proof wet clutch in the Kawasaki). I am sure a better rider than me could make the GT do the same things as the KZ1000, but it is definitely harder with the BMW.

 

--------------------

o advice above.

[Linz]

You could buy Total Control (High Performance Street Riding Techniques) by Lee Parks (Amazon).

I couldn't do U turns either until I read this book and now I feel stupid for not being able to work this out for myself...

The book is highly recommended.

Linz

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Counter balancing is part of the key here. Put your body and its weight to the outside of the turn. Basically, lean the bike and keep yourself upright while shifting a cheek to the outside.

 

Turn your head like Exorcist. You go where you look. Look left, go left. Look right, go right. Look down . . .

 

And do both of these things to it to an extreme degree. Seriously, can someone post pics of LEO's doing tight maneuvers? They look like they're staring over their shoulder at someone who's just rear ended them, and at the same time they're shoving their bike down into the pavement while keeping themselves upright. Both of these things work very well to snug up your turn radius.

 

Practice, practice, practice.

 

+1. Find a school parking lot on a weekend (i.e. empty), and practice riding tight circles. Get 'em tighter and tighter. Look farther behind you. Push the bike down farther. Play with the clutch and the rear brake. Make sure you have valve cover guards on the bike, so if you do happen to drop it, you don't hack anything major.

[Lawman]

Y'all don't understand.....

 

The Lawman does not believe in leaning his bike in any direction at any time. He rides his bike like he's on a tightrope.

 

 

You should see his tires......They look like they came off a 1908 model A pick-up.

 

I'd ride with him anywhere.

 

Whip

 

Whip,

I'll compete with you at any type of motorcycle competiton you wish anytime and anywhere........You just name it..

 

If you win I'll buy you dinner...

If I win I'll know you broke down and I'll come back to help you..

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Don't feel too bad, the GT is also blessed(?) with less steering lock than an RT or a GS. I used to do feet up U-turns on single lane streets with cars parked on both sides with my GS Adventure, about a 12 foot circle. Alas, the Blackbird needs 1.5 street lanes and a little bit to manage the same, more like 18-20 foot circle. I can get it a little tighter if I don't think about it.

 

I used to find that 2nd gear tamed the bike a great deal. Throttle control in first was too difficult and jerky, there is only one or two mph difference between first and second at idle anyway. BTW, the key to working the friction zone for me was to work from the fully engaged position down to a little slippage rather than trying to go from fully disengaged upward. Less abusive to the clutch as well.

[CoarsegoldKid]

Turn your head way around to look where you want the bike to go, if you look in front it will take you that acre, turn the bars and slowly roll on the throttle, stabilize speed and balance by applying a steady easy amount of rear brake.

[Twisties]

I use clutch and maintain enough throttle for control. As others have said, primary control is with clutch. Brake only if I'm entering turn too hot, and then braking is done before entry. For me the key is looking as others have said. Look where you want to go, in this case behind you. I don't know if I counter lean or not, have to go see next time I'm out, but I don't think so, if I do, it's not very much.

 

One important point that has not been mentioned yet, unless you want to become intimately acquainted with the pavement, do not be looking down (look where you are going). Keep your chin up while you turn your head.

 

Practice lots, as has been said. I use the parking lines to establish a reference. I choose lines to be my imaginary U-turn box, then work into them. You should be able to turn an RT in continuous figure 8's about 15 feet wide and 30 to 40 ft long.

[swilson]

Seriously, can someone post pics of LEO's doing tight maneuvers? They look like they're staring over their shoulder at someone who's just rear ended them, and at the same time they're shoving their bike down into the pavement while keeping themselves upright. Both of these things work very well to snug up your turn radius.

 

Yup, yup... head turn. Whenever I pull off a rather crappy turn and then analyse why it was that I choked... its almost always head/eyes placement.

 

Not me on the GS, its my coworker.

 

 

 

[MotorinLA]

Counter balancing is part of the key here. Put your body and its weight to the outside of the turn. Basically, lean the bike and keep yourself upright while shifting a cheek to the outside.

 

Turn your head like Exorcist. You go where you look. Look left, go left. Look right, go right. Look down . . .

 

And do both of these things to it to an extreme degree. Seriously, can someone post pics of LEO's doing tight maneuvers? They look like they're staring over their shoulder at someone who's just rear ended them, and at the same time they're shoving their bike down into the pavement while keeping themselves upright. Both of these things work very well to snug up your turn radius.

 

Practice, practice, practice.

 

+1. Find a school parking lot on a weekend (i.e. empty), and practice riding tight circles. Get 'em tighter and tighter. Look farther behind you. Push the bike down farther. Play with the clutch and the rear brake. Make sure you have valve cover guards on the bike, so if you do happen to drop it, you don't hack anything major.

 

Most of the tricks to making a tight u-turn have been covered, however, here are some personal observations:

 

When you practice, have another person help you, it is safer, as well as helpful. When you practice your u-turn, ride away from your helper. Have your helper hold up a hand above his/her head. When you make your turn, snap your head around (will take some practice) and twist at your waist about 45 degrees. Look at your helper's raised hand (your target). This will help you look in the right direction (behind you), as well as keep your chin up (thus the raised hand). Turning your head back as far as possible will also help with your body positioning through the turn (upright and counter leaning) and will automatically push your hands/arms into the correct position for a u-turn.

 

Never 'free wheel' (no power to the rear wheel) through any turn. Always have some engine engagement. It is the power to the rear wheel that will keep you upright in a tight turn with heavy lean. By the way, contrary to popular belief, the dry clutch will take a lot of abuse before it goes out, so use that gray area between engagement and disengagement.

 

P.S. If you're maneuvering at low speed, you should not need to use your rear brake at all through your turn. I find it easier to control the angle of the lean with power rather than brake. However, this is a matter of preference.

[MotorinLA]

http://www.motorcops.com/images/cop_pics/11_fairfax_county.jpg

 

Not quite a u-turn but good body position.

 

Lots of other good pics at this site (I know, I know, they're riding Harleys... it was a rush job )

[motorman587]

Here is a BMW.

http://www.motorcops.com/gallery_21.asp

 

 

On a RT no rear brake is needed. It can power through the turn without using the rear brake. If you need to slow down, pull in the clutch slightly, enough for the speed you need. Clutch slipping, and I know we do this on starts, but excessive clutch slipping is bad. Clutch slipping or gray area are for those wet clutches, no dry. Can you slip a dry clutch, sure, but it not healthly for it. All exercises ie motor school can be done with out using the clutch or brakes. ie making a u-turn without a brake or clutch.

[tallman]

John,

2nd gear?

Or, 1st?

And, yes, the GT is not made for U-turns .

Could do the R1100RSL, 2 up, in a lane and a half, in the dark, and rain, against the wind...

The GT, I only need an extra lane or three.

[Bernie]

The 07 R12RT does a easier U-turn then the R11RT.

[Dave McReynolds]

And, yes, the GT is not made for U-turns .

Could do the R1100RSL, 2 up, in a lane and a half, in the dark, and rain, against the wind...

The GT, I only need an extra lane or three.

 

Another improvement for the new GT's; it's a little easier to do tight slow speed turns on them. Shorter wheelbase, I guess.

[Dick_at_Lake_Tahoe_NV]

Best DVD going for U-turns and slow speed riding skills. "Ride like a Pro IV"

http://www.amazon.com/Ride-Like-Pro-DVD-...2701&sr=1-1

[blackyam]

Check out these videos (scroll to the bottom).

[motorman587]

John,

2nd gear?

Or, 1st?

 

1st

[GoGo Gadget]

Seriously, can someone post pics of LEO's doing tight maneuvers?

 

Here ya go. On a HD, but same principle. In the second pic, the photo is catching me transitioning from a full lock left to a full lock right. A second before my chin was over my left shoulder and a second after the pic, my chin was over my right shoulder.

 

Head, eyes, clutch, throttle, brake.

 

 

[HexST]

Great article on slow turns

www.largiader.com/slow/

[exwingnut]

I was at a campout last week with a large group, when it was time for the group picture, one of the riders there brought his Honda Valkyrie out onto the grass at 3-4 mph and proceeded to do a 270 deg. turn on the grass with the footboard touching the ground all the way around...he just drove up, tipped it over and rode it around the circle like it was on rails.

 

The deafening silence that followed was ample evidence that not many there (myself included) were able to do the same thing.

 

Gotta go practice...bye!

[motorman587]

Seriously, can someone post pics of LEO's doing tight maneuvers?

 

Here ya go. On a HD, but same principle. In the second pic, the photo is catching me transitioning from a full lock left to a full lock right. A second before my chin was over my left shoulder and a second after the pic, my chin was over my right shoulder.

 

Head, eyes, clutch, throttle, brake.

 

 

Seriously, if you attempt to take a RTP and ride it as a Harley, slipping the clutch, you will burn out a clutch quickly, this double seriously for LEOs in a motor course. It can be done, and I have seen it be done and smelt it too. Got to stay off the brake/clutch on those beemers.

[GoGo Gadget]

Seriously, if you attempt to take a RTP and ride it as a Harley, slipping the clutch, you will burn out a clutch quickly, this double seriously for LEOs in a motor course. It can be done, and I have seen it be done and smelt it too. Got to stay off the brake/clutch on those beemers.

 

Oh, I know. I was posting an example of turning ones head and looking where you need to go. I don't ride my RT like I ride the HD.