Wrong place, wrong time.

[Agent86]

On my way to work last week at about 4:30 AM, noticed a lot of flashing lights on the other side of the divided road as I got closer, I see a minivan, upside down and pointing in the wrong direction. I slow and notice one sheriff’s vehicle parked sideways on my side of the road. Being that I am riding a motorcycle, I ignore the attempted roadblock and drive around the patrol car. About a hundred feet down the road, I see the remains of a motorcycle. I can’t tell you what brand, it just looked like a wadded up piece of aluminum foil. I have seen a few motorcycle collisions, but never one this destroyed. There is a group of EMTs and deputies staring down at the remains of the motorcycle rider, in about the same condition as the motorcycle. It was obvious that he or she did not survive. Later I had the opportunity to talk to a deputy on the scene that said that the motorcycle was stopped at a red light and was struck from behind by the minivan traveling in excess of 100 mph. There were no skid marks prior to the collision. I was going to post something the morning that this happened, but all I could do was think about what I saw and wished evil thought about the minivan driver. That evening the news mentioned that a motorcycle rider was killed when struck by another vehicle. They, as usual, mentioned that the motorcycle rider was not wearing a helmet, which I am sure made no difference in this incident.

 

The only reason that I am sharing this experience is to emphasize that even with our best efforts, we cannot forget that riding motorcycles is an acceptance of risk. I doubt that there was anything this rider could have done to prevent what happened, but I encourage everyone to keep an eye on your rear view mirror, keep your bike in gear in the event you need to move in a hurry, and you cannot have too many flashing do-dads on the rear of your ride.

 

Ride safe.

[EffBee]

A tragedy. But save some of your evil thoughts for the media who, rather than reporting the pertinent facts about things, always go for the sensational, regardless of the cost to those involved or otherwise affected.

[Quinn]

It would also seem that the minivan driver didn't see the red light if they were doing 100mph when they hit the bike stopped at the intersection.

[Dances_With_Wiener_Dogs]

I slow and notice one sheriff’s vehicle parked sideways on my side of the road. Being that I am riding a motorcycle, I ignore the attempted roadblock and drive around the patrol car.

Did you think for a moment that maybe you should have not driven around the road block? Would it have made a difference if you were in a car? Maybe there was some stuff, like a mangled human, that was not intended for you to see...

 

I'm surprised that you didn't get an earful from the LEO.

 

Just checked your profile and see that you are an LEO...I guess it changes my post a bit. Even if the bike was in gear, I'm uncertain if it would have made a difference.

[Boffin]

There is one thing we can do when stopped at an intersection which may help. That is keep well to the side of the lane, as if you were splitting. In this position there is at least a chance that the other vehicle will blow right past you. If nothing else, they need less room to swerve if they do see you at the last minute.

 

Andy

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I have an even simpler solution.

 

In the dark hours, I will NOT sit at a red light if I am the only vehicle. I'll either go through it or do the right turn, U-turn thing. Given the poor driver skills in this country, coupled with poor lights on cars and the more or less miniscule tail lights with which most motorcycles are equipped, we hardly stand a chance with even normal speeds.

 

What the he&& is any minivan doing at 100 mph? Those things can't stop or maneuver for doo doo. I'll bet, given the circumstance, that the driver of the minivan was in some way judgmentally impaired. My further bet would be alcohol. May the driver be visited with pain and suffering commiserate with that which he caused. There is no excuse, none!!

[Twisties]

One has to wonder if the victim would have fared any better in a car?

 

Getting struck by a mini-van in excess of 100 would not be trivial even in a large car or truck.

 

I've always wondered about this get out of the way thing. Once I was riding my bike home from high school at a high rate of speed, as fast as I could go. I was overtaking some pedestrians and they were blocking the whole sidewalk. I swung onto the grass to pass and then without warning one them darted in front of me and we collided.

 

He said he was getting out of my way.

 

Point being, if you move and they swerve it's 50/50 that your just realigning yourself for collision. Too, maybe you can move out from in front of a slow moving vehicle, but at 100 mph, by the time you know there is a problem, it's probably way too late to do anything. All that said, yeah, I stay in gear and watch my back.

 

Thanks for posting.

 

Jan

[Jake]

I have an even simpler solution.

 

In the dark hours, I will NOT sit at a red light if I am the only vehicle.

Big Ditto that. I've proceeded (and will continue to proceed) through red lights at night because I feel like such a sitting duck in that scenario. Was stopped by an LEO a few months ago for same, and after a friendly chat there was no contest: "Have a nice evening sir and ride safe" was the penalty I had to endure.

 

We are invisible.

[wsearl]

Can I suggest that Hyperlites or similiar flashing LED's may prevent tragedies like this from happening.

They are cheap, easy to install and may save your life - what more can you ask?

[T__]

100 mph hit & no skid marks?? Just how did they determine it was a 100 mph hit?

Even a car or light truck hit in the rear at 100 mph will usually kill the occupants..

 

Twisty

[BailyD]

No pre-impact skid marks, maybe post-impact skid marks or a download from the vehicle's crash data recorder. Maybe a calculation of the "throw" of the bike and rider after impact. Stationary object with specific drag co-efficient thrown forward a known distance (I'm not sure, I cannot remember exactly if it can be calculated, I'd have to go into the books).

 

I agree with others post's stating this may have been fatal regardless if car or bike.

 

On the "coulda, shoulda" idea, maybe the smaller profile of the cycle could have afforded the speeding vehicle the opportunity to fly right past it in it's stopped position, whereas a car could have been a more sure target??

 

Sometimes your number is up, I'm not smart enough to figure out why these things happen.

 

Last month a drunk sped past me from behind while I was straddling the police motor with all of my lights on inspecting a crash scene. Missed me by about 24 inches at 63 mph (rear radar was on). I caught him down the road, double the limit.

 

I explained to his lawyer in court I would gladly recite this incident to the judge. Funny thing was while I was speaking with his lawyer I began to think about how close he came to wiping me out and how my 22 month old daughter wouldn't remember me.

[Agent_Orange]

 

"Can I suggest that Hyperlites or similiar flashing LED's may prevent tragedies like this from happening.

They are cheap, easy to install and may save your life - what more can you ask?"

 

If you think that is going to help, you better think some more.

I've had them mow down over 24 road flares and hit the back of a 50' telesquirt with ALL lights and flashers going. Then told FHP that they did not see the truck, lights, flares, what-have-you.

But hey, if it makes you feel safe.................

[MotorinLA]

Based on the information provided by Agent86 it is very likely that the driver was under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs. Early morning collisions involving high speed and no braking prior to the collision, are typical for drivers with a BAC of 0.10-0.15% (about 3-5 drinks or equivalent on falling BAC).

 

Twisty1 wrote:

100 mph hit & no skid marks?? Just how did they determine it was a 100 mph hit?

 

Speed at impact can be determined from a number of factors, including intrusion into involved vehicles, their POR (point of rest), other scuffs/skids and size of the debris field. By using evidence at the scene, you can usually determine minimum speed at impact through various mathematical formulae.

 

Agent86 wrote:

I doubt that there was anything this rider could have done to prevent what happened, but I encourage everyone to keep an eye on your rear view mirror, keep your bike in gear in the event you need to move in a hurry, and you cannot have too many flashing do-dads on the rear of your ride.

 

In general it is very good advice to make yourself as visible as possible to other drivers. However, keep in mind that drunks are just like bugs, they are attracted to light, especially flashing lights. When you pass a CHP officer doing a traffic stop on the shoulder of the freeway at night, notice that all his rear lights are usually turned off (for this very reason).

 

Jake commented:

I have an even simpler solution.

 

In the dark hours, I will NOT sit at a red light if I am the only vehicle.

Big Ditto that. I've proceeded (and will continue to proceed) through red lights at night because I feel like such a sitting duck in that scenario. Was stopped by an LEO a few months ago for same, and after a friendly chat there was no contest: "Have a nice evening sir and ride safe" was the penalty I had to endure.

 

Must not have been a motor/traffic officer.

 

But seriously, fear of being hit from behind is not a legal justification for running a red light. What happens when the drunk in the minivan, who forgot to turn on his headlights, traveling 100 mph comes down your cross-street? WHAMMO!

 

You may be telling yourself that you are doing the safest thing by running a red light, but in reality you are creating a dangerous situation, where you will be at fault if you are hit. Yes, yes, if you are in the middle of nowhere and visibility is great, etc., etc., but in that scenario you should be able to see the guy coming up behind you, right?

 

IMO if you saw a car coming up behind you at too high a speed to stop, your odds would probably be better if you dropped your bike and ran perpendicular to the car’s direction of travel. No street bike has good enough acceleration to outrun a car closing in at 100 mph. (Not that I'm expecting a lot of people to adopt this approach )

[bvaughan]

seriously, fear of being hit from behind is not a legal justification for running a red light. What happens when the drunk in the minivan, who forgot to turn on his headlights, traveling 100 mph comes down your cross-street? WHAMMO! You may be telling yourself that you are doing the safest thing by running a red light, but in reality you are creating a dangerous situation, where you will be at fault if you are hit.

you're right, but ever since i saw this, i won't wait wait at the tail end of a queue or by my lonesome at a stop light with anything but blue sky on my six, unless i know it's going less than 20 mph. i just won't do it. i can live with a ticket.

[upflying]

I agree the minivan driver was probably DUI. But what else are minivans used for at O dark thirty in the border states? Coulda been running away from Border Patrol...

[Wyn]

When it's your time, it's your time. You can get hit by a minivan, bus,truck,fall,heart attack, somebody shoots you, knifes you, electrocuted, struck by lightning, in your cage, by wife, by husband, work accident, whatever.

 

My girlfriend in high school broke her wrist badly skiing. They had to operate and she died from to much anestisia (sp) When your called you will be present.

 

However I do believe you can (and should) do as much as possible to minimize risk. Idint that why we use Reflectors, flashing brake lights, helmets, leather, textile armour, gloves, boots, etc.??

[MotorinLA]

seriously, fear of being hit from behind is not a legal justification for running a red light. What happens when the drunk in the minivan, who forgot to turn on his headlights, traveling 100 mph comes down your cross-street? WHAMMO! You may be telling yourself that you are doing the safest thing by running a red light, but in reality you are creating a dangerous situation, where you will be at fault if you are hit.

you're right, but ever since i saw this, i won't wait wait at the tail end of a queue or by my lonesome at a stop light with anything but blue sky on my six, unless i know it's going less than 20 mph. i just won't do it. i can live with a ticket.

 

[slight hijack]I had a guy on an MV Agusta Brutale S doing 55 mph in a 35 mph zone the other day. I could hear him coming off the line at an intersection about 2000 feet away from where I was sitting with my LIDAR. He wound it out through three gears, before he rolled off a little bit. As I determined his speed he was doing a steady 55 mph. When I got him stopped, he explained that he had been told by a motorcycle instructor that it was safer for him to be out ahead of traffic and that was why he was speeding. When I wrote him a ticket, he got very argumentative and insisted that he had done nothing wrong or unsafe.

 

So, even though I respect your reasoning and your choice of action, I ask you not to be mad at the LEO when he doesn't agree with you and gives you a ticket. [/hijack]

 

Beautiful bike by the way...

[4wheeldog]

seriously, fear of being hit from behind is not a legal justification for running a red light. What happens when the drunk in the minivan, who forgot to turn on his headlights, traveling 100 mph comes down your cross-street? WHAMMO! You may be telling yourself that you are doing the safest thing by running a red light, but in reality you are creating a dangerous situation, where you will be at fault if you are hit.

you're right, but ever since i saw this, i won't wait wait at the tail end of a queue or by my lonesome at a stop light with anything but blue sky on my six, unless i know it's going less than 20 mph. i just won't do it. i can live with a ticket.

 

[slight hijack]I had a guy on an MV Agusta Brutale S doing 55 mph in a 35 mph zone the other day. I could hear him coming off the line at an intersection about 2000 feet away from where I was sitting with my LIDAR. He wound it out through three gears, before he rolled off a little bit. As I determined his speed he was doing a steady 55 mph. When I got him stopped, he explained that he had been told by a motorcycle instructor that it was safer for him to be out ahead of traffic and that was why he was speeding. When I wrote him a ticket, he got very argumentative and insisted that he had done nothing wrong or unsafe.

 

So, even though I respect your reasoning and your choice of action, I ask you not to be mad at the LEO when he doesn't agree with you and gives you a ticket. [/hijack]

 

Beautiful bike by the way...

 

None of my citations while aboard a motorcycle received over the years had anything to do with being unsafe......Just illegal. I will continue to generate open space around myself, as it is the only thing that keeps me safe. Laws, and LEOs, don't keep me safe......I do. If it costs the occasional taxation by ticket, so be it.

[TyTass]

I have an even simpler solution.

 

In the dark hours, I will NOT sit at a red light if I am the only vehicle.

Big Ditto that. I've proceeded (and will continue to proceed) through red lights at night because I feel like such a sitting duck in that scenario. Was stopped by an LEO a few months ago for same, and after a friendly chat there was no contest: "Have a nice evening sir and ride safe" was the penalty I had to endure.

 

We are invisible.

Absolutely! I'd rather explain myself to an LEO than count on someone else seeing me - especially at night. Now, that doesn't mean I won't add things to my bike/gear to increase conspicuity but again, I'm not going to count on it saving my life ... ever! I need to count on me - my awareness and my skills.

 

Riding like we are invisible is more than a quaint phrase ... it is a frame of mind.

 

"Legal" is a completely separate risk analysis.