oil change issues

[Guy_Fawkes]

Before I start- I know I should make sure I have everything I need before going forward, well I didn't So here are my issues. Tonight I decide to do my first oil change on my ride, the dealer did the 36k service. I remove the drain plug and there is no crush washer to be found- I was under the impression these are needed for a leak free ride. I plan to go to the local automotive store and get one- I hope it is that easy. While there I plan to pick up a filter. I am not trying to start any debate- I am thinking a Mobile One or Bosch. Now the real issue without a BMW wrench how do I get the filter out??? If I have to go with the BMW filter wrench will it work on a Bosch, Mobile One, or any non BMW filter. My days of nice weather here in mid Michigan are running out and I do not want to leave the bike on the center stand for long.

[MAT2CHI]

Check to see if the crush washer is stuck underneath the engine. When I removed my drain bolt, the crush washer did not come down with the bolt but was attached to the engine. I'm not sure what filter wrench works with those other filters because I bought the BMW filter wrench to use on my BMW oil filters. Sorry, that' all I got for you.

[LJR]

I don't think there is a source for crush washers, except for bmw.

 

Crush washers are meant to be used once. Sure, in a pinch I might use one over again, but the crush has gone.

 

I know you can get a filter wrench to fit the bmw filter, but I don't know if it will fit other filters.

 

Easy way might be to order a filter, wrench ,and crush washers from bmw.

 

The sticky thread at the top of the forum lists alternative filters, can't recall if it lists filter wrenches.

[Wooster]

Guy-Fawkes (didn't you try to blow up the English Parliament ?),

 

While I've the BMW oil filter cap wrench, I believe you can buy a reasonable facsimile at most discount auto part stores, e.g., Auto Zone. Simply select the Mobile One filter (check the top thread on oilhead wrenching for specific model) and buy the cap wrench that fits it; it will also fit the bmw filter.

Be careful when installing filter and drain plug as too much twisitng is sure to mess up motor's threads. Filter is something like 7 newton meters (or more simply, a half turn after snug) and drain plug is, well, I forget, 25 n/m ? Whatever, don't do a superman when tightening.

Lastly, I got some aftermarket copper crush washers for my honda accord's drain plug and at 5 n/m more than specified, still had a leak: off with new aftermarket and on with the used washer, no more leaks. So, re-using (try flipping it on its other side) maybe better than new aftermarket.

 

Best of luck, Wooster who never blew up anything

[Bob Palin]

A Fram type B filter wrench fits oilhead filters. Once you have a filter selected make sure it matches the filter wrench just in case...

[amboy]

Go to your favorite auto parts retailer and ask for a 76mm diameter oil filter wrench with 14 flutes, which will fit the BMW oil filter. I purchased an aftermarket oil filter wrench at Carquest Auto Parts, #54760, that works just fine. You probably can order one online.

[NoHeat]

The Mobil 1 M1-102 filter exactly fits my oilhead. I mention that brand since you asked about it. Its dimensions are the same as the BMW OEM filter, including the same number of flutes -- 14. To answer your question, all that means that the M1-104 uses the same filter wrench as the BMW OEM filter. I have used the Fram type B filter wrench that Bob mentioned on both.

 

The M1-102 filter also fits my wife's 2004 Toyota Sienna perfectly, so that means that any oil filter that fits that car should fit an oilhead, too.

 

I don't recall reading of any source for the right size of crush rings other than a BMW dealer or beemerboneyard, where a kit sells for $3.50.

[NonComp]

Wow. That's a bit of a revelation. Now I'm going to have to go out and look at my '04 Sienna to see if it really does have the same size oil filter! I'm not sure what's more surprising -- that they are the same, or that the filter on the Sienna is so small... !

[barncobob]

i use a wix filter #51348 with the wrench that fits it, it does not fit the bmw filter. and heaven forbid i reuse the crush washers several times with no leaks.

[Guy_Fawkes]

I found the crush washer, it was in the bottom of the drain pan . The local Auto Zone had a thin walled metal, size B oil filter wrench that did the trick. All they had were copper crush washers, I thought I read not to use those so I did not get one. May be I will throw caution to the wind and reuse the old crush washer. What is the worst that can happen? I have to drain the bike and replace it with a new one. My greater concern now is my torque wrench. I am not sure it is working properly, I had to resort to the "going by feel method," while replacing the filter. I am less inclined to use the "going by feel method" for the plug so I either need a new torque wrench or confirmation mine still works. That leads to my next questions- what size adaptor does one need to install the drain plug and any good suggestions on a torque wrench?

[Ken H.]

All they had were copper crush washers, I thought I read not to use those

Can't imagine why not.

May be I will throw caution to the wind and reuse the old crush washer.

Go for it, I do it all the time.

That leads to my next questions- what size adaptor does one need to install the drain plug

8 MM

and any good suggestions on a torque wrench?

They are all over the place, depending upon your budget. I don't think you can go too wrong with Craftsman.

[NonComp]

Don't buy the Craftsman ibeam style of torque wrench (the one that has no ratchet). They are absolute junk. The one that I bought actually had a loose head, which shifted 5lbs on the scale depending on whether you turned it clockwise or counter-clockwise. Get the ratchet style, but pay attention to the instructions: always reset it to zero before you put it away.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

All they had were copper crush washers, I thought I read not to use those

Can't imagine why not.

 

Copper and aluminum form a galvanic couple with high potential between them, which can lead to rapid corrosion. Wouldn't be so bad, but in this case the aluminum is the sacrificial anode, not the copper.

 

Probably not a major issue in this particular application, since this location would be well-coated with protective lubricant, and the bike generally doesn't get ridden on briny winter roads. It's worth noting that the cam chain tensioner (on the 1100's) uses a copper crush washer, so you could probably get away with it on the oil plug if need be.

 

A copper crush washer won't be as soft as an aluminum one, so it will take more torque on the plug to achieve a reliable seal.

[smiller]

Crush washers are meant to be used once. Sure, in a pinch I might use one over again, but the crush has gone.

The crush has been gone out of several of mine for longer than I can remember. Never leaked a single drop out of any of them. Replace 'em once in a while (or not)... it's really not something worth worrying about.

[tomk99r11]

I agree, I have reused the washer for years on all of my bikes. When it looks too smashed, I think about replacing next change. Some of us sure are anal though!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[philbytx]

Some of us sure are anal though!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I resemble that remark ....And what's wrong with anality when it comes to mechanical stuff anyway !!!

 

Try NOT being anal when your arse is sitting 15000 feet up in the air with an air-cooled engine in FRONT of you

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Guy,

This is an oil change, not open heart surgery. Find a wrench that fits, 8mm if I recall correctly. Now, mount the drain plug on the long arm of the wrench and, after cleaning all 4 surfaces with a rag, spin the plug, with crush washer attached up into the hole by hand until it stops. Now, reverse the wrench so the long arm is in your hand, give a decent tug on the wrench and you're done.

 

I do understand your zeal to get everything just so, especially since it is your first time, but, even if you use a long pattern wrench, unless you have been hitting the 'roids, you don't have enough hand strength to damage anything and crush washer is more a less a misnomer in this application. It's really a gasket.

 

I've been doing my own work on motorcycles for lo these 50 or so years and I have never used a torque wrench on a drain plug yet. Never stripped one and never had one fall out.

[smiller]

This is an oil change, not open heart surgery.

Everything around here is open-heart surgery.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

[Tony_K]

Every hobbiest group has intuitive and not so intuitive folks in it.

 

When I was doing some 356 Porsche stuff a few years back a guy was all in a panic because after he jacked the rear of his car up to access the oil plug or something (I don't recall) and let it down the wheels were all cockeyed in!

 

To his horror he thought he had damaged the suspension and had no idea how this could be after he just spent 50k on the car!

I, with a nice calm tone, told him to just roll the car forward a bit and all will be normal again. He had no concept of torsion beam suspension or how it works or that it was even a part of his car.

 

I think he sold the car shortly afterwards.

 

Learning is fun and knowledge building. Learning by embarrassment... not so good.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Relax, Francis.!

 

You will note that, while having a bit of fun with him, I answered both the questions he posed and told him how to go about it as well.

 

My ROTFLAMO was in response to the "Everything on here is open heart surgery."

[Guy_Fawkes]

well for those who give a rip. I had to pull my oil filter off and drain some oil because I followed the haynes manual and put in 3.75 liters of oil. That is what you get for following directions. I have done the "oil dance" many times in the short time I have owned this beauty ( since aprilish). I guess live and learn. I am sure that in the 20 minutes I over filled the oil I have suffered FD failure, put the wrong kind of oil in, used the wrong filter, failed to tighten the various bolts/filters to the proper specs,and next time I drive a surge will throw me off the bike and offended the various gods on Olympus. I am thinking more and more I belong with the GS crowd, if you see oil- drive it like you stole it and if it is remotely clean you are considered AR. Enjoy the the weekend.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I don't understand, 3.75l is the correct amount of oil according to BMW not just Haynes.

 

For reference, next time, here is what I do. Starting with 4 bottles of oil, 4 quarts, I take the first bottle and pour off 8 oz into a screw top plastic bottle and set that aside. Pre-fill the oil filter with some of the remaining oil and dump the rest in the sump. Short pause here while I check to be sure the drain plug is both installed and not leaking. Then I dump the remaining 3 bottles in there.

 

The 8 oz reserved goes into a saddle bag for top up some time later in the change. I have long since stopped checking the level after this process. I know what is in there. I might look again 2K miles down the road. Anything sooner is OC, IMHO.

[tomk99r11]

Well, if you reused the drain plug crush washer instead of installing a new one, ALL of the outcomes you cite have a high probablility.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

10 oil changes on my GS Adventure, 8 on my R1100S, 6 on my K12RS, 8 so far on my Blackbird, 4 on my K12LT, and so it goes back some 50 years, never changed a crush washer yet that wasn't damaged, never had a leak.

[Quinn]

Don't need a torq wrench. Just tighten it down until it strips out and then back off a quarter turn.

[Woodie]

I can help you with the torquing!

 

[WaywardSon]

Since a gallon is 3.78L, I just buy a gallon of Delo 400 and dump it in there. Bike doesn't seem to notice the .03L overfill. Runs great

[wolcott]

I did not notice any dance to the oil gods around a roaring bonfire......some of us do tend to go a little bit overboard, but then we are all individuals with our preconceived notions of oil, the proper oil change intervals, what oil to use, etc.

[Tipover_Bob]

I did not notice any dance to the oil gods around a roaring bonfire......some of us do tend to go a little bit overboard, but then we are all individuals with our preconceived notions of oil, the proper oil change intervals, what oil to use, etc.

 

M.:

The dancing is mostly around our bikes. I tend to believe that the dance is the wrong thing to do. Generally, motors with oil coolers have their oil coolers mounted lower than on our bikes and have no problem with draining the oil coolers down before reading their oil levels. The logical way to read the oil level for those motors is to assume the oil coolers, extra oil filters, etc. always are full when the vehicle is operating and thus should be full when the oil level is measured. This is the only site I have found that wants all reservoirs excepting the crankcase to be drained down before measuring the crankcase oil volume. It doesn't make good sense to me, but I have only been driving my RS for a few months.

Tipover Bob

[JamesW]

Hey Bob, I agree with you 100%. Only time I put bike on sidestand (hot) is to drain all the oil from the cooler in preparation for an oil change. When I place on centerstand prior to removing drain plug I note oil level in site glass and it is always near the top of the glass and this is how much oil I put back in. Then I always check the oil level by going directly to the center stand and guess what? The level is always on the dot maybe a little below or a little above which is fine by me. Funny thing, my owners manual sez this is how to check oil no mention of 10 minutes on side stand then to center stand. Have asked two dealers how they check oil and they both said same thing. No going to side stand first. I don't understand why some people have such a time interpreting the English written language.

[Bob Palin]

Many people have found that if you just put the bike on the centre stand the oil level is not reliable, it will change each time you look. This does not seem to be the case when you do the dance. Every bike seems to be different in this regard.

[Stan Walker]

I don't understand why some people have such a time interpreting the English written language

 

Since the beginning of the RT oilheads there have been different oil coolers, different oil thermostats (located in different locations within the engine including one that was external to the engine). BMW has changed the design of the oil return too at least once in an attempt to get it to drain better.

 

It's been easier for us who have been answering this "how do I check my oil level" question for many years to come up with a single answer that works on all the RT's, not just yours.

 

Stan

[Rx_Mich]

I guess I like keeping things simple when doing an oil change. I take the bike for a ride to warm up the oil then bring it back and put it on the center stand. I drop the filter with a type B Fram wrench and put a oil catch pan under the bike. I remove the spark plug wires from the cylinders and hit the starter for 3 x 15 second bursts. The oil pump shoots the oil in the pan, clean up, put on a new filter, add oil and ride. No need to mess with the plug and new crush washers cause it never gets loosened up.

[Bob_Minor]

I guess I like keeping things simple when doing an oil change. I take the bike for a ride to warm up the oil then bring it back and put it on the center stand. I drop the filter with a type B Fram wrench and put a oil catch pan under the bike. I remove the spark plug wires from the cylinders and hit the starter for 3 x 15 second bursts. The oil pump shoots the oil in the pan, clean up, put on a new filter, add oil and ride. No need to mess with the plug and new crush washers cause it never gets loosened up.

[Tipover_Bob]

I guess I like keeping things simple when doing an oil change. I take the bike for a ride to warm up the oil then bring it back and put it on the center stand. I drop the filter with a type B Fram wrench and put a oil catch pan under the bike. I remove the spark plug wires from the cylinders and hit the starter for 3 x 15 second bursts. The oil pump shoots the oil in the pan, clean up, put on a new filter, add oil and ride. No need to mess with the plug and new crush washers cause it never gets loosened up.

 

Bob:

Cool!, I am assuming of course that you also reverse the polarity of the starter motor so that you can refill the oil using a mirror image of the same method.

Tipover Bob

[Rx_Mich]

LOL... haven't figured out how to do that yet. I learned this from my Airframe & Power plant mechanic. It made a 40 minute job less than 5 minutes and less chance of a leak if it didn't have one coming into the shop.

[DrPaul]

I guess I like keeping things simple when doing an oil change. I take the bike for a ride to warm up the oil then bring it back and put it on the center stand. I drop the filter with a type B Fram wrench and put a oil catch pan under the bike. I remove the spark plug wires from the cylinders and hit the starter for 3 x 15 second bursts. The oil pump shoots the oil in the pan, clean up, put on a new filter, add oil and ride. No need to mess with the plug and new crush washers cause it never gets loosened up.

A couple of questions about your method:

1) Have you ever removed the drain plug before refilling the crankcase to see if indeed all the old oil was out?

2) Do you have concerns about turning the motor over with spark plug wires removed? I understand this can fry some electronic ingition systems.

[Rx_Mich]

Yes it completely drains the oil and confirmed by how much oil is added. If you are worried about the electronics then pull the plugs and attach to the plug wires laid on top of the cylinders so they still spark. That will also make it much easier on the starter motor since no compression.

[mefly2]

Some of us sure are anal though!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I resemble that remark ....And what's wrong with anality when it comes to mechanical stuff anyway !!!

 

Try NOT being anal when your arse is sitting 15000 feet up in the air with an air-cooled engine in FRONT of you

 

Wow, what style fairing do you have on that bike to get it 15k' altitude ... or, do you just live very high up

[philbytx]

Well,

If you aren't a pilot, you can discover that yourself...just go up to the top of Mount Evans Colorado! Wheeeeeeeeeeeee

[T__]

Yes it completely drains the oil and confirmed by how much oil is added. If you are worried about the electronics then pull the plugs and attach to the plug wires laid on top of the cylinders so they still spark. That will also make it much easier on the starter motor since no compression.

 

Bob, I don’t understand how that can completely drain the engine oil as neither the main oil pump or the cooling oil pump pickups go to all the way to the very bottom of the oil sump area.. I’m doubtful it would even completely purge the oil cooler unless you cranked it so much so fast to clear the oil cooler & sump before the sump drained & the oil thermostat closed..

 

Pull your oil drain plug next time after you use that (questionable) draining procedure & I bet you will find at least ½- ¾ of a quart still in the engine..

 

I don’t understand what you gain here as the positive crankcase pressure pulses must blow oil all over as you crank it.. What, all this just to save a crush washer?

 

Twisty

[smiller]

If you are worried about the electronics then pull the plugs and attach to the plug wires laid on top of the cylinders so they still spark.

That's easier than just removing the drain plug?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

BTW, it's called a sump for a reason. This is where the heavier particles will collect to be flushed away during a drain. PULL THE DRAIN PLUG.

[Bob Palin]

What, all this just to save a crush washer?

 

Twisty

It's even easier than that, I have a drain valve I got from Bob's BMW, I just screw in the 'adapter' which opens the valve and the oil drains out, no mess, no fuss, no washers, no torquing. It's worked fine for over 100,000 miles now.

[bross]

Yes it completely drains the oil and confirmed by how much oil is added. If you are worried about the electronics then pull the plugs and attach to the plug wires laid on top of the cylinders so they still spark. That will also make it much easier on the starter motor since no compression.

 

Bob, I don’t understand how that can completely drain the engine oil as neither the main oil pump or the cooling oil pump pickups go to all the way to the very bottom of the oil sump area.. I’m doubtful it would even completely purge the oil cooler unless you cranked it so much so fast to clear the oil cooler & sump before the sump drained & the oil thermostat closed..

 

Pull your oil drain plug next time after you use that (questionable) draining procedure & I bet you will find at least ½- ¾ of a quart still in the engine..

 

I don’t understand what you gain here as the positive crankcase pressure pulses must blow oil all over as you crank it.. What, all this just to save a crush washer?

 

Twisty

I have to totally agree. Pull two spark plugs just to turn my engine over while I have just drained my oil! And keep turning it over until no more oil gets squirted out!

 

Um, I think I'll just pull my drain plug.

 

Plus the fact, that in order to pull my plugs I have to remove my Elf pegs, which frankly is the longest part of my valve adjustment process, no thanks. You just turned a 5 minute job into a 40 minute one.