R12RT Pet Peeve: Turn Signal Self-cancels too soon!

[bobbybob]

More times than not, my turn signal cancels itself before the maneuver is actually completed. I.E--it just shuts off too dang soon. I would rather have it stay on longer than needed, as I can then manually cancel it. Can the ZFE be programmed to leave it on longer---maybe TWICE as long? Anyone have any info. on this?

[Dave_in_TX]

More times than not, my turn signal cancels itself before the maneuver is actually completed. I.E--it just shuts off too dang soon. I would rather have it stay on longer than needed, as I can then manually cancel it. Can the ZFE be programmed to leave it on longer---maybe TWICE as long? Anyone have any info. on this?

I don't know if it can be reprogrammed but something doesn't seem right. Mine actually cancels later than I would prefer.

[Ken H.]

Can the ZFE be programmed to leave it on longer

No.

[BigAdv]

More times than not, my turn signal cancels itself before the maneuver is actually completed. I.E--it just shuts off too dang soon. I would rather have it stay on longer than needed, as I can then manually cancel it. Can the ZFE be programmed to leave it on longer---maybe TWICE as long? Anyone have any info. on this?

 

No it cant. But you can program your brain to not signal so early. The indicators will cancel after 10 sec. If the bike is moving or about 200m. 40 to 50m warning before a turn is plenty.

 

Earl

[pokorskij]

I have gotten into the habit of checking the signal just about the time that I am entering the turn and I hit the signal button again. This will increase the time from first activating the signal and the time of cancel. Sometimes this means I actually will have to manually cancel the signal, but after a while it becomes second nature.

[bobbybob]

<<No it cant. But you can program your brain to not signal so early. The indicators will cancel after 10 sec. If the bike is moving or about 200m. 40 to 50m warning before a turn is plenty.>>

=========================================

 

I've already done this but it's a safety issue with me. If I am turning off of a road where the speed limit is 45 or above I want to give a signal at LEAST 1/4 mile in advance--already had some idiot cagers come running up my ass because they couldn't tell I was slowing or turning. The problem with having to re-start the signal to keep it going means I'm looking at the road ahead, the mirrors behind, the road where I'm turning, and the *#&@ signal indicator to make sure I didn't re-start it before it stopped on it's own...which means its gonna stop in the usual distance/covered/speed/etc/ algorythm, leaving me with no signal, looking like I've changed my mind and am going straight ahead. Whatever....anyway that's like inviting some brain-dead cracked-out soccer mom to turn me into a hood ornament on her mommie-van. Honestly, of all the quirks on the RT, turn signals is the only one that really rattles my cage. I'm not gonna go thru all the different (read *better*) methods that Yamaha, H-D, etc. use on their bikes. If I could disable the auto-cancel on this bike I would do it. I don't need Hans and Franz's distorted view on when to cancel my signal. OK, I'm through.

[BigAdv]

Just dont slow down for the corner, then the "cracked out soccer mom " cant turn you into a hood oriment! The Rt corners really well!!!

 

Earl

[R4ND0M_AX3]

I have gotten into the habit of checking the signal just about the time that I am entering the turn and I hit the signal button again. This will increase the time from first activating the signal and the time of cancel. Sometimes this means I actually will have to manually cancel the signal, but after a while it becomes second nature.

This doesn't work on my bike. Wonder if it's a model or build date thing. Maybe realated to the deletion of the hazard button on newer bikes??? Dunno.

I can push the button 1 second before the autocancel and it will still cancel in 1 second. I need to wait until it has actually canceled before it will accept another press.

[Paul Mihalka]

Turn signals on my R1200GS cancel too fast for my taste. I partially retrained myself to not turn them on early, or if I want them early I hit "cancel" and "on" quickly, which restarts the count.

[bobbybob]

Turn signals on my R1200GS cancel too fast for my taste. I partially retrained myself to not turn them on early, or if I want them early I hit "cancel" and "on" quickly, which restarts the count.

 

Good idea Paul...I didn't think about hitting "cancel" and then re-starting the sequence . Still one more step that shouldn't be necessary. And to the earlier poster that said "40-50 meters is plenty notice" for giving the signal....I sure hope you're watching your rearview pal!

 

Some have said hitting the button before it cancels will "extend" the time-on period but I have yet to see that happen. Mine also cancel after the normal period, regardless of when I try and re-start them.

[Paul Mihalka]

Older K bikes K75/100/1100 etc. canceled by covering a minimum distance AND a minimum time, and hitting the signal switch while flashing restarted the count. It was a better system. On my R1100RT and R1150R I had the Kisan Signal minder accessory, which I set to cancel after 30 seconds. It also had a setup that when on the brake the time did not count. This way I canceled myself, but had a backup if I forgot.

[JayW]

I've already done this but it's a safety issue with me. If I am turning off of a road where the speed limit is 45 or above I want to give a signal at LEAST 1/4 mile in advance--

 

You are making an assumption that signaling earlier is safer. I think signaling this far in advance is unnecessary and maybe even counterproductive. I don't have any data to back this up, but it is certainly not what I do (how's that for compelling evidence!).

 

In my opinon, the RT cancel algorithm is just about right. I do wish pushing the signal button a second time would reset the countdown back to the beginning, but it doesn't seem to on my bike.

 

Jay

[pokorskij]

Well I stand corrected. I just went out and tested whether hitting the turn signal button while it was flashing would reset the time/distance function as I thought. It does not. I guess I am so use to the time the signal will cancel that I am not resetting it but activating it a second time.

 

This works for me, as I prefer more rather than less notice of my intention. It would be nice if the time could be adjusted, but this is one of, in my opinion, few items on an otherwise prefect motorcycle for me.

[milbrua]

I just went out and tested whether hitting the turn signal button while it was flashing would reset the time/distance function as I thought. It does not.

 

Huh. I was certain that my 07 RT behaved the way you described in your first post, but now you've got me wondering. It's become my habit on long turn lanes to hit the switch again about half-way down the lane. I had assumed that I was re-setting the time-out but now I'm not so sure. I'll have to test it tomorrow morning on the way to work.

[bobbybob]

<<"You are making an assumption that signaling earlier is safer. I think signaling this far in advance is unnecessary and maybe even counterproductive. I don't have any data to back this up, but it is certainly not what I do (how's that for compelling evidence!). >>"

 

 

To each his own...but if I'm traveling 60 MPH and need to make a 90 degree right turn ahead, which requires slowing up to about 15 MPH in the turn (this is something I do often), my theory is that 1/4 mile (1200 ft) is about right--you're traveling 80 ft/sec, so it takes about 15 secs before the turn--give or take.

 

Now--for the hard data--and this is the important stuff, stay with me on this: based on the algorythm for calculating the attention span of a brain-dead cracked-out soccer mom with cel phone inserted in head while piloting a 4000 lb Dodge Caravan (which works out to exactly 1.5 glances at the road ahead every 10.3 seconds), the 1/4 mile works out just about right.

[bobbybob]

Older K bikes K75/100/1100 etc. canceled by covering a minimum distance AND a minimum time, and hitting the signal switch while flashing restarted the count. It was a better system. On my R1100RT and R1150R I had the Kisan Signal minder accessory, which I set to cancel after 30 seconds. It also had a setup that when on the brake the time did not count. This way I canceled myself, but had a backup if I forgot.

 

And, of course, the Kisan wont WORK with the Canbus system--correct?

[Paul Mihalka]

And, of course, the Kisan wont WORK with the Canbus system--correct?

Correct. it worked only on non-selfcancelling oilheads.

[R4ND0M_AX3]

...if I'm traveling 60 MPH and need to make a 90 degree right turn ahead, which requires slowing up to about 15 MPH in the turn (this is something I do often), my theory is that 1/4 mile (1200 ft) is about right--you're traveling 80 ft/sec, so it takes about 15 secs before the turn--give or take.

This is the same situation that I run into. Fast moving traffic (70MPH) on two lane road. 90 degree left turn that may require me to stop traffic (no seperate turn lane) to wait for opening in oncoming traffic.

 

Self cancel is a good idea. But I think the intent is to cancel if I forget to not for me to expect it to after every turn movement. Time should be doubled. I'll cancel myself 99.999999% of the time.

[bobbybob]

This is the same situation that I run into. Fast moving traffic (70MPH) on two lane road. 90 degree left turn that may require me to stop traffic (no seperate turn lane) to wait for opening in oncoming traffic. Self cancel is a good idea. But I think the intent is to cancel if I forget to not for me to expect it to after every turn movement. Time should be doubled. I'll cancel myself 99.999999% of the time.

 

 

R4ndom, my thoughts exactly. I can self cancel, and would rather have it just like my old Yamaha which did not "think for you". Yes--it should be doubled--distance and time. If ever there was a potential safety issue, this should be one. Not because I'm too lazy to understand how the "system" works, but that the "system" diverts my attention to other things in order to make myself safer--because of it's shortcomings.

[JayW]

I see your point. There are a number of variables that affect how soon I signal - traffic volume/flow, individual speed, speed differential compared to others, left vs right turn, whether there is a dedicated turning lane, and how much I anticipate slowing before I turn.

 

Jay

[Don_Eilenberger]

It's really been a non-issue for me. I typcially manually cancel a signal change before it times out. IF the brake is on - the countdown clock stops, so sitting at a light waiting for it to change is no problem at all.

 

There have been very rare occasions where I've had to re-trigger the turn signal - but in 9,000 miles of riding, bet I could count them on my fingers.

 

And as an aside - I never assume ANYONE has seen my turnsignals - it's a bad thing to think someone is actually paying attention since in NJ - about 80% (made up on the spot as most net percentages are) aren't. I pretty much use them so a cop doesn't have an excuse to pull me over for non-signal use (like they REALLY would... not..)

 

Turn signal use in a car in NJ is apparently totally optional now since holding a cell phone to your ear is *much* more important - plus if you signal in NJ - it's a sign for someone to try to get the jump on'ya.

[Volfan615]

More times than not, my turn signal cancels itself before the maneuver is actually completed. I.E--it just shuts off too dang soon. I would rather have it stay on longer than needed, as I can then manually cancel it. Can the ZFE be programmed to leave it on longer---maybe TWICE as long? Anyone have any info. on this?

 

I agree 100%. This is my biggest pet peeve with this bike. Too many time I have looked down to see that my signal has already canceled itself.

[bobbybob]

More times than not, my turn signal cancels itself before the maneuver is actually completed. I.E--it just shuts off too dang soon. I would rather have it stay on longer than needed, as I can then manually cancel it. Can the ZFE be programmed to leave it on longer---maybe TWICE as long? Anyone have any info. on this?

 

I agree 100%. This is my biggest pet peeve with this bike. Too many time I have looked down to see that my signal has already canceled itself.

 

 

Glad to see a few agree with me. I am just hoping one of our nerdy resident engineer-types will come up with some ingenious solution or work-around. You know who you are.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I'm not sure about other states but, the legal requirement for signals to make a turn from a roadway in Florida is 200 feet. 200 meters, the distance set by BMW for self cancel, seems reasonable to me.

 

I would state you have a choice, signal later or reset the signal with another button push. You could always go to a bike that doesn't have self canceling signals.

 

I really think keeping a signal on for a 1/4 mile or more opens you to the danger of misinterpretation of your intentions. A signal, be it directional or brake light, is designed to attract attention by its activation (change in environment). Keep it on for too long and it becomes the norm and is discounted in the average driver's awareness.

 

Just my take on the matter, your opinion probably differs.

[grayghost]

I really think keeping a signal on for a 1/4 mile or more opens you to the danger of misinterpretation of your intentions. A signal, be it directional or brake light, is designed to attract attention by its activation (change in environment). Keep it on for too long and it becomes the norm and is discounted in the average driver's awareness.

 

I would have to agree, if I was following someone who put their turn signal on for a 1/4 mile I would think they just put it on accidentally.

 

The turn signal's timing seems ok to me, I always worry when making a left turn in traffic that I'm gonna get rear ended and try to remain aware of that. I'm more worried about the car directly behind me making a move to pass me on the right and the car behind the car behind me rear ending me.

[R4ND0M_AX3]

2*200 =/= 1320.

 

I probably would only use 250' if the current distance is 200'.

[bobbybob]

I really think keeping a signal on for a 1/4 mile or more opens you to the danger of misinterpretation of your intentions. A signal, be it directional or brake light, is designed to attract attention by its activation (change in environment). Keep it on for too long and it becomes the norm and is discounted in the average driver's awareness.

I would have to agree, if I was following someone who put their turn signal on for a 1/4 mile I would think they just put it on accidentally.

 

 

I never advocated leaving the signal on for 1/4 mile every time you make a turn. I just want the ability to turn it on WHEN I want to, and not have to worry about it self-cancelling too soon. When I want 1/4 mile distance is when I am traveling down a 4-lane highway at 60mph with a cager 1/2 mile behind me, and I'm preparing to turn right ahead. After I give the signal I start watching for him to pick up on the fact that I'm turning and move to the left lane to go around me. This scenario occurs quite often as I ride out of town to the twisties. If I'm going 35mph its a whole 'nother story--you kinda have to use common sense here. Bottom line, let ME decide. Anyone who wants to consistently give a 200' notice--knock yourself out! (or let the cager do it for ya )

[Tech1]

In most cases it is fine, but I agree that there are certain instances where it is too short and I wish that I could just hit it a second time to turn off the self cancel. In particular there is a certain stretch of 2 lane 55-60mph highway where in most cases I have to stop and wait to cross traffic to turn left. Just about every time at that turn it turns off just as I am coming to a stop. I just had a friend and his girl friend rear ended in a similar situation on their harley. He just ended up with some bruises, she had one leg broken in 2 places and was hospitalized for almost a week.

By the way, I don't think it cancels the timer with the brake still on, at least in this particular situation, but I will check it again tomorrow!

[bobbybob]

In most cases it is fine, but I agree that there are certain instances where it is too short and I wish that I could just hit it a second time to turn off the self cancel. In particular there is a certain stretch of 2 lane 55-60mph highway where in most cases I have to stop and wait to cross traffic to turn left. Just about every time at that turn it turns off just as I am coming to a stop. I just had a friend and his girl friend rear ended in a similar situation on their harley. He just ended up with some bruises, she had one leg broken in 2 places and was hospitalized for almost a week.

By the way, I don't think it cancels the timer with the brake still on, at least in this particular situation, but I will check it again tomorrow!

 

Having the brake on doesn't "cancel" the timer, but it appears that *stopping* the bike stops the timer. When moving, the signal will always cancel after covering 650 ft., unless 10 seconds expires first (i.e. you are moving very slowly). If you stop, as far as I can tell the timer stops until you start moving again and resumes where it left off, or maybe even resets to the 10 secs., as does the # of feet measured. I have stopped at a light for 2 minutes with the signal blinking prior to stopping, and it continued blinking until I started moving again.

[Paul Mihalka]

By the way, I don't think it cancels the timer with the brake still on, at least in this particular situation, but I will check it again tomorrow!

It does not cancel the timer because there is no timer. On the hexheads and other current bikes canceling is strictly by distance. Applying brakes does not change anything. Obviously when you stop with the turn signals on they will not cancel as no distance is covered.

[bobbybob]

It does not cancel the timer because there is no timer. On the hexheads and other current bikes canceling is strictly by distance. Applying brakes does not change anything. Obviously when you stop with the turn signals on they will not cancel as no distance is covered.

 

Paul, my owners manual states that they cancel after "approx. 10 seconds or after covering 650' ".

Or--maybe its just a case of Hans and Franz mentally converting 650 feet into the time it would take to cover it so we American complete nincompoops could better understand how it works.

[marcopolo]

I think the important thing to note is that you have to have ridden for 10 secs or 650 feet. You can sit at a stop light and it will keep flashing forever. It's got nothing to do with having the brake on.

 

Mine work fine most of the time because I cancel by hand, though there are a few times on the highway when I have to start the sequence again.