R1200ST final drive?

[grasslander]

May be a failure here. 2005 R1200ST built 06/05, washed the bike Friday afternoon. Let it rest on the side stand and a bit later looked over and saw this.

 

 

The stuff almost felt like a coarse graphite. Small amounts around the brake rotor carrier, but mostly coming from the tube area shown.

 

I put the bike on the center stand and got around 3-mm play at 12-6 and 9-3. Looks like a spline issue to me. I'll be off loading it at Engle Motors on Tuesday AM and we'll see what they say. I'm not riding it again till the slop is gone. BTW 15k miles in the clock and still under warranty. No play at 700 miles ago. (I check this stuff when ever I check tire pressures.) Fluid replaced at 6k and 15k not that it probaly matters on this.

 

Is this the first ST? Last month Engle sales told me that hadn't seen any R12XX FD failures. Well maybe the first?

[IanW]

Jim

Could be just brake dust being washed down from the disc area, but you are doing the right thing by having it checked out, good luck.

Ian

[Ken H.]

Typically a FD seal leak shows up on the other side of the wheel where the hub enters the FD. I'd suspect as mentioned this is just washed out brake dust. Does it smell like gear lube? A very distinctive smell.

 

I'd say clean it up and watch it. If it's a seal leak it will soon be back.

 

(If you listen to Engles they'll tell you they've never seen any BMW motorcycles failures of any kind! That's their standard answer for everything over there, "Yours is the first one of these we've worked on for this." A statement in itself that would make me nervous!)

[marcopolo]

My 2006 RT's FD failed in July, while on a road trip. I had residue on the wheel (like brake dust), and had what you found when I started to wash it. Max play in rear wheel is 1 mm at the outer edge of the wheel rim. In my case it was indeed the splines on the axle tube and the flange (attached to the rotor). There is a service bulletin on this exact failure published for the R12GS. The bulletin is quite specific in saying you cannot just replace the flange, you must replace the entire final drive (the flange is included with the new FD). I also asked them to check the rotor and they replaced it as well, along with all lug nuts.

 

Below is the wording of the service bulletin:

 

BMWMotorrad

USA

Service Information Bulletin

Subject: Bearing play at the rear wheel drive

Model:

Details:

Aftersales

Solution:

Dealer Operation/

General Manager

Sales-

Motorcycles

Sales -

Used Motorcycles

Business Manager

(F&I)

Service Parts & Accessories Administration

Date: February 2005

Bulletin #33 001 05 (011)

Source: 33 74/2004

BMW Motorrad USA Service and Technical

Contact: Respective Aftersales Business Consultant

R 1200 GS

1: In the rear drive of the R 1200 GS the ring gear is supported by two types of bearings:

one floating bearing and one fixed bearing without preload. Inherent in this design

is a small amount of bearing play at the rear wheel. With all components manufactured

and assembled to stated tolerances it is possible that play in these bearings can be felt

and measured at the rear wheel. This type of bearing play has no effect on motorcycle

handling or on the durability of the bearings.

2: There is a possibility of play developing between the splined wheel flange (P/N 33 17

7 668 659) and the axle tube of some motorcycles manufactured prior to 08/2004, US

VIN# ZL 76187.

1: In the event of a customer complaint, an inspection and measurement of rear wheel

bearing play is to be performed as described below. With cold components the total

play (back and forth travel) allowable at the wheel rim edge is 1mm(maximum). Refer to

the R 1200 GS Repair Manual CD for measuring procedures as well as temperature definition

of "cold components". Replace the entire rear-wheel drive assembly if the play

exceeds specifications.

2: If the complaint is "bearing play at the rear wheel" you must first check that the

splined flange is secure before performing the measurement noted in point #1. When

rocking the rear wheel back and forth, you must first make sure there is no movement

between the wheel flange, the rear wheel and the axle tube.

If play is noticeable between these components you must replace the entire rear wheel

drive assembly (complete with flange). Replacing the splined wheel flange only will not

solve the situation, because in all probability the splines on the axle tube will have suffered

some degree of wear as well. If you are in doubt, you are requested to contact your

respective Aftersales Business Consultant.

Warranty: Covered under the terms of the New Motorcycle Limited Warranty.

Important Note: Screw 1 is a drain

plug for repair-related oil changes; it is

not for checking the oil level. When filling

the rear drive assembly with oil,

pour in the defined quantity (0.25 l for

initial fill, or 0.23 l for oil changes)

through the bore for the ABS sensor.

We highly recommend using BMW

Super Synthetic Gear oil. 75W 90, P/N

07 51 0 394 082

[LuckyLeif]

Jim

Could be just brake dust being washed down from the disc area, but you are doing the right thing by having it checked out, good luck.

Ian

I see this more often on my German cars than the bikes, but sure looks like accumulated brake dust to me.

[grasslander]

My 2006 RT's FD failed in July, while on a road trip. I had residue on the wheel (like brake dust), and had what you found when I started to wash it. Max play in rear wheel is 1 mm at the outer edge of the wheel rim. In my case it was indeed the splines on the axle tube and the flange (attached to the rotor). There is a service bulletin on this exact failure published for the R12GS. The bulletin is quite specific in saying you cannot just replace the flange, you must replace the entire final drive (the flange is included with the new FD). I also asked them to check the rotor and they replaced it as well, along with all lug nuts.

 

Well BMW has changed their mind. At least when it comes to an ST anyway.

 

Confirmed today my flange is loose. BMW has instructed the dealer to replace the flange only. The dealer isn't very happy about this (they requested a complete FD replacement) because they are now required to purchase a new tool (and I'm told very expensive one at that) to machine the existing spline to accept the new flange.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about this. If the flange is the wear item maybe alright. It the axle tube spline is the wear item, I think I'll be back here in another 6-15k miles...

 

I knew it was the flange. That dust looked a bit to black to me to be brake dust, not to mention I know how to measure movement using the metric system (I do work for a German company). So maybe BMW has determined they have a batch of bad flanges since it seams to be of a darker color and they feel with minor re-machining a new proper fit can be achieved and the problem is solved?

[grasslander]

This was posted on the MOA forum as well.

Grasslander, has BMW USA issued a new service bulletin? I can't believe they could fix it quite that easily, especially when you read the 2005 service bulletin. If that's the "new" solution, how did RoboRider get his FD replaced under warranty for the same spline problem?

 

Evidently there is...

I discussed this with the dealer tech on Tuesday. He told me that when he input the spline failure on the BMW system, the system gave him specific instructions on how to proceed.

 

Step 1:

BMW required him to attempt the adapter replacement using a "special" BMW tool to heat and remove and heat the adapter and press it on the axle spline.

 

Step 2:

If the play was no longer present, job done.

If play could still be determined, FD replacement was then approved.

 

The tech says BMW has explained that the the axle tube is steel and the adapter is an alloy. It is usually the alloy adapter flange that is the wear item. I'm out of town and he was going to take a digital photo of the axle tube spline for me prior to new adapter install.

 

I got a call today that the alloy adapter was installed and no play was found. I'll check it out next week when I return to Kansas.

[marcopolo]

Wonder how long that fix will last before you notice play in the rear wheel once again. Hopefully never, but I bet you'll be checking the rear wheel pretty frequently. If the fix was that simple, why did it take them several years to come up with it? Think maybe the cost of FD replacements was a motivating factor?

 

I still can't get past these two lines in their 2005 service bulletin: "If play is noticeable between these components you must replace the entire rear wheel drive assembly (complete with flange). Replacing the splined wheel flange only will not solve the situation, because in all probability the splines on the axle tube will have suffered some degree of wear as well."

[grasslander]

Wonder how long that fix will last before you notice play in the rear wheel once again. Hopefully never, but I bet you'll be checking the rear wheel pretty frequently. If the fix was that simple, why did it take them several years to come up with it? Think maybe the cost of FD replacements was a motivating factor?

 

I still can't get past these two lines in their 2005 service bulletin: "If play is noticeable between these components you must replace the entire rear wheel drive assembly (complete with flange). Replacing the splined wheel flange only will not solve the situation, because in all probability the splines on the axle tube will have suffered some degree of wear as well."

 

I recommend Hex owners check the rear FD by grasping the wheel at 12 and 6 o'clock and moving the wheel side to side (not in the direction of travel). If you find play greater than 1 mm, pay special attention to the left side at the axle hole. As wear progresses you can see actual movement of the wheel in relation to the axle tube hole. You should do this check at the very least when you change oil. Obviously, I will check mine more than that. In fact I'll check mine as part of a pre-ride check or when I check tire pressure.

 

I had checked mine prior to a 700 mile ride and found no play and within 700 miles I found appreciable wear present after I noticed the black powder. I don't know how long it will last. I'm not sold on this fix at this point. I have 20k mile warranty left so we'll see. I will be requesting a quotation for wheel adapter to spline replacement costs for the future, since it appears to be a possible consumable

 

Too bad. What is otherwise a great machine will now have me mapping where the u-haul offices are as part of trip planning...

[marcopolo]

I had checked mine prior to a 700 mile ride and found no play and within 700 miles I found appreciable wear present after I noticed the black powder.

 

Same thing happened to me on a long trip. One day it was fine, and the next I noticed the residue on the wheel, and the significant play.

[bobbybob]

I still can't get past these two lines in their 2005 service bulletin: "If play is noticeable between these components you must replace the entire rear wheel drive assembly (complete with flange). Replacing the splined wheel flange only will not solve the situation, because in all probability the splines on the axle tube will have suffered some degree of wear as well."

 

Sounds to me like the statement above was made in 05 when the models were all new, and BMW expected the FD to outlast the 3 yr. warranty--so that any failures would be the buyer's problem. Now that it's eating into THEIR pocket with low-mileage failures, they suddenly have this new "miraculous" (and cheaper) fix--heat the "adapter". And did I read where the dealer said the adapter flange was a "wear item"??? Uh oh......

[grasslander]

And did I read where the dealer said the adapter flange was a "wear item"??? Uh oh......

 

I was tongue in cheek with the "consumable" statement. The dealer said the flange is what would wear if it failed. NOT that they considered it a wear item.

[Missouri Bob]

Does anyone know if BMW has changed the FD design? If my ST's FD failed tomorrow, and I chose to replace the entire assembly at my expense, would the replacement parts have the same weakness as my current parts?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob

[grasslander]

Does anyone know if BMW has changed the FD design? If my ST's FD failed tomorrow, and I chose to replace the entire assembly at my expense, would the replacement parts have the same weakness as my current parts?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob

 

Bob- I can't answer that.

 

I now have the bike back from the dealer. The alloy flange was replaced according to BMW direction. It was heated and installed on the existing FD's axle tube using the $800 dealer purchased tool. Wheel now has less than 1 mm play. Problem is fixed as far as BMW is concerned. Never thought I'd see a worn spline to spline interference fit not replace both splines.

 

Dealer quote to replace the alloy adapter parts and labor $300.

Dealer quote to replace the complete FD parts and labor as was previously done for this type failure $1600.

 

Mechanic told me visually the axle splines looked ok (how do you measure them?). I have 2 years and 20k warranty left. I will be checking this repair with my dial indicator routinely. 28 years as a BMW owner and 3 bikes purchased in the last 4 years. Not very thrilled with this fix.

 

Note: this failure has nothing to do with oil, bearings or seals.