R1100RT - Valve Adjustment (it just doesn't "sound" right)

[SWB]

I tuned up my bike in late May, and have since then have put about 1.4 miles on it. (Yes, that's one-point-four miles; I'm not going to get my "ironbutt" this year. I won't bore ya all with my travails, since I've told that story before. Abbreviated version: Broken tranny 11/06, rebuild, R&R lots of other stuff, test ride 5/07, a fishing trip, a *@#$%%! low flying big black Labrador retriever (not mine), a dislocated & broken ankle & leg, multiple surgeries, four months + recovery, etc.. Just the usual stuff. ).

 

Anyhow, the valve's didn't sound "right" back in May, and now that I've got the front end of the bike together again and test road it tonight, they don't sound right now. They make a "click" or "snapping" sound at idle, a bit like the bike did before when oil got over a quart low. I think I set the valves correctly, and if I erred, I "cheated" loose. The only think I wasn't sure of at the time was the Rocker Arm adjustment (reference an ibmwr "valve adjusting" guide). The clearance was supposed to be between 0.05mm and 0.3mm, quite a large range. I couldn't get a 0.02 blade in between the rocker arm and lower rocker arm bearing carrier (LRABC), but then my feeler gauge was in poor shape and I didn't trust it in any case (i.e. bought two sets of 0.15mm & 0.30mm gauges for setting the valves).

 

The ibmwr documentation says the looser the clearance between the rocker arm and LRABC, the noiser the valves. Obviously, if I misadjusted the valves way too loose, they could be knocking as well. However, I think the rocker arm gap is tight and the valves are just right.

 

Mind you, I haven't really been on a BMW in a year (except for the 5 minute test ride after I go the tranny installed and before the dog-accident in May, and tonight). The bike is also still naked, so the noise could just be normal engine sounds (with a paranoid-amateur-wrenching owner).

 

Any ideas or suggestions? My gut feeling is to just get the bike back together and ride it. I need to pull it apart after 500 miles to re-torque the the pivot bolts in the final drive (after replacing bearings with a brass bushing), to adjust the TB balance due to new throttle cables, and generally look the bike over since I've had everything except the engine and ABS system apart. But then again, after all this work, the last thing I want are fried valves.

 

(By the way, speaking of valve noise, and as background, I also performed the left cam tensioner upgrade while I had the bike apart for the tranny R&R.)

 

Thanks again,

 

Scott

[Ken H.]

Well you'll just have to go back in again and recheck them, right?

 

Things to watch out for include not confusing the intakes with the exhaust, making sure the side you are working on is at TDC of the compression stroke and the engine is truly cold, not moving the adjustment as you tighten the retainer nuts (don't go back and check the nuts 'one last time' for example) and making sure the rocker arm end play is truly correct (I target 0.2 mm, better too loose than too tight).

[T__]

I tuned up my bike in late May, and have since then have put about 1.4 miles on it. (Yes, that's one-point-four miles; I'm not going to get my "ironbutt" this year. I won't bore ya all with my travails, since I've told that story before. Abbreviated version: Broken tranny 11/06, rebuild, R&R lots of other stuff, test ride 5/07, a fishing trip, a *@#$%%! low flying big black Labrador retriever (not mine), a dislocated & broken ankle & leg, multiple surgeries, four months + recovery, etc.. Just the usual stuff. ).

 

Anyhow, the valve's didn't sound "right" back in May, and now that I've got the front end of the bike together again and test road it tonight, they don't sound right now. They make a "click" or "snapping" sound at idle, a bit like the bike did before when oil got over a quart low. I think I set the valves correctly, and if I erred, I "cheated" loose. The only think I wasn't sure of at the time was the Rocker Arm adjustment (reference an ibmwr "valve adjusting" guide). The clearance was supposed to be between 0.05mm and 0.3mm, quite a large range. I couldn't get a 0.02 blade in between the rocker arm and lower rocker arm bearing carrier (LRABC), but then my feeler gauge was in poor shape and I didn't trust it in any case (i.e. bought two sets of 0.15mm & 0.30mm gauges for setting the valves).

 

The ibmwr documentation says the looser the clearance between the rocker arm and LRABC, the noiser the valves. Obviously, if I misadjusted the valves way too loose, they could be knocking as well. However, I think the rocker arm gap is tight and the valves are just right.

 

Mind you, I haven't really been on a BMW in a year (except for the 5 minute test ride after I go the tranny installed and before the dog-accident in May, and tonight). The bike is also still naked, so the noise could just be normal engine sounds (with a paranoid-amateur-wrenching owner).

 

Any ideas or suggestions? My gut feeling is to just get the bike back together and ride it. I need to pull it apart after 500 miles to re-torque the the pivot bolts in the final drive (after replacing bearings with a brass bushing), to adjust the TB balance due to new throttle cables, and generally look the bike over since I've had everything except the engine and ABS system apart. But then again, after all this work, the last thing I want are fried valves.

 

(By the way, speaking of valve noise, and as background, I also performed the left cam tensioner upgrade while I had the bike apart for the tranny R&R.)

 

Thanks again,

 

Scott

 

 

SWB, how far did you have to move the valve adjustment settings? A good rule of thumb is they usually don’t move much so if you had to move any one or more adjusters more than a thousandth or so you either have a valve problem or you messed up the adjustment procedure.. If they were all about where they were then you probably didn’t mess up..

 

On the rocker arm side play? That is best done with a dial indicator.. Just too difficult to get a feeler gauge in there all the way around with any confidence.. At least if you want to get then to minimum side clearance.. If they aren’t right at minimum side clearance they can be a bit noisy..

 

If you are sure you adjusted them correctly ride the bike a little farther than you did.. It might change after it goes through a good heating & cooling cycle..

 

Another side note: Are you sure it is valve noise you are hearing & not the R/H throttle plate rattling (a very common thing on the BMW boxer)..

 

Twisty

[notacop]

With a buncha miles on the bike do you really need to adjust the valves every 6K miles?

When I pulled the covers and checked the gaps It was in spec.

That was several 6K miles sets ago.

Too much analretentive mechanicing can make you crazy and the bike not love you any more and make funny clicking noises to upset you.

Wear earplugs and enjoy the sound of silence.

use the farce and hit redline and let the engine sing the song of Germanic power.

[SWB]

Ken: Damn I hate it when I get adult advice. Yeah, it was my first valve adjustment, and even though I double checked it and am pretty certain I got the basics right, anything is possible.

 

Twisty:

 

• One valve was way too tight. A local dealer did the tune up at 54K (now at 57.5K), and the bike seemed to go out of tune within a thousand miles after that. I didn't have confidence in the dealer's work at that time. So, after I fixed the transmission, I R&R'd and cleaned the fuel injectors, replacing the rubber "O"rings and the LBBS, checked and adjusted the valves, replaced all the cables (Throttle, throttle advance, clutch), checked the TB's for air leaks around the shafts (was tight), did the "zero-zero" TPS adjustment thingy, and balanced it with a twin max. The bike runs strong and idles great otherwise.
   
  
• During the valve checks, I rechecked TDC with both the sight window and the piston position, and am pretty certain I had the engine set up correctly for the measurement.
   
  
• Haven't heard of a dial-indicator procedure for checking rocker arm play. Can you point me to a web page (or give me some tips).
   
  
• Re: riding the bike, that's what a co-worker said. It hasn't really been run in about 11 months, maybe I should put 500 miles on the bike and make my decision then.
   
  

 

Notacop:

 

Agree with your point of basically "ride more, tinker and worry less, and have more fun". However, this worn-out Police bike was definitely a sick puppy when I got her. With new shocks, rebuilt transmission (& undercut gears), and the other engine work I've done, it already feels like a whole different bike. It'd be sad to damage the engine after all this, and be back into a rebuild cycle again. Hmmmm... on the other hand, about the only I haven't touched is the engine and ABS system. It would be nice to have a "tight" rebuilt engine ..., and then repaint the bike .... and then ...

 

 

Well, guys, no one can tell me via the internet whether this thing is "right" or not. Guess I'll bite the bullet and just re-tune it this weekend, maybe using Ken's dial indicator method to check the rocker arm free play. If it's dialed in when I check, then the valves are fine and I can ride it in peace (except for worrying if I properly torqued the 200 different nuts and bolts I've touched over the past 11 months; I mean.. SOMETHING has got to fall off this bike. ). Then I'll repeat the rest of the tuning steps. What's another Saturday morning and maybe 2-3 hours work after 11 months.

 

(Now, if I can just get my motorcycle boots over my 2x swollen ankle to ride it; hope I don't have to cut up my boots on Saturday, but this puppy is leaving the stable this weekend. .)

[Godfather]

Please post back on your findings...

[SWB]

Haven't heard of a dial-indicator procedure for checking rocker arm play. Can you point me to a web page (or give me some tips)?

[AndyS]

Hi, from your reply you infer you have done a lot of work on this bike. There is no way that you have had the cam chain off, is there? If so you haven't got one side - say - 1 tooth out of adjustment? just a thought.

Andy

[T__]

Haven't heard of a dial-indicator procedure for checking rocker arm play. Can you point me to a web page (or give me some tips)?

 

SWB, I doubt you will find a dial indicator procedure on the internet..

 

Basically I use a small central dial indicator that uses a small “C” clamp attaching base & a couple of short extension legs with a clamp joint between them.. Just clamp the indicator base on one of the upper valve gear carrier stud nuts, then place the dial indicator probe on the upper side of the rocker arm (I made a short extension for the probe on my indicator but the stock button will work with a little ingenuity).. If you have a magnetic base indicator just clamp or hot glue on a piece of flat steel stock to hold the indicator base.. It really doesn’t matter how you attach the indicator as long as it is SOLIDLY attached to the engine somehow & the indicator probe has nice 90° angle to the rocker arm & rests on the arm as close to the pivot as possible (not the valve end as you don’t want to read rocker tilt as end play)

 

Then just pull the rocker arm down (or up your choice) ,, then “0” the indicator,, then move the rocker arm the other direction & read the indicator dial.. I try to get the rocker arm end float as close to .002” as possible.. The closer to .002” you can get the quieter they are..

 

Next time I do one I will take a picture & post it..

 

As a side note: on that one valve you found way out__ Re-check that valve as you have a possible issue on that one.. Just because you were at TDC doesn’t mean you were at the correct place to adjust the valves.. You MUST be at TDC COMPRESSION or the valves can’t be set correctly.. TDC compression will have BOTH valve rockers slightly loose (both valves closed completely)..

 

Twisty

[SWB]

Haven't heard of a dial-indicator procedure for checking rocker arm play. Can you point me to a web page (or give me some tips)?

 

SWB, I doubt you will find a dial indicator procedure on the internet..

 

Basically I use a small central dial indicator that uses a small “C” clamp attaching base & a couple of short extension legs with a clamp joint between them.. Just clamp the indicator base on one of the upper valve gear carrier stud nuts, then place the dial indicator probe on the upper side of the rocker arm (I made a short extension for the probe on my indicator but the stock button will work with a little ingenuity).. If you have a magnetic base indicator just clamp or hot glue on a piece of flat steel stock to hold the indicator base.. It really doesn’t matter how you attach the indicator as long as it is SOLIDLY attached to the engine somehow & the indicator probe has nice 90° angle to the rocker arm & rests on the arm as close to the pivot as possible (not the valve end as you don’t want to read rocker tilt as end play)

 

Then just pull the rocker arm down (or up your choice) ,, then “0” the indicator,, then move the rocker arm the other direction & read the indicator dial.. I try to get the rocker arm end float as close to .002” as possible.. The closer to .002” you can get the quieter they are..

 

Next time I do one I will take a picture & post it..

 

As a side note: on that one valve you found way out__ Re-check that valve as you have a possible issue on that one.. Just because you were at TDC doesn’t mean you were at the correct place to adjust the valves.. You MUST be at TDC COMPRESSION or the valves can’t be set correctly.. TDC compression will have BOTH valve rockers slightly loose (both valves closed completely)..

 

Twisty

 

I'll get my dial indicator out and play with it, to see if I can reproduce your steps. (I don't totally understand what's happening with the valves, rocker arm (lifters?), etc.). I'll run through a couple of cycles and watch the action.

 

As far as TDC compression, I think I had that right. TDC will be TDC compression for one side or the other. The side where the valves are loose is at TDC compression, at least, that's how I understand it. I'm going to recheck them today.

 

Thanks a bunch!