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Bad fuel in Hawaii


alexp

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Hello everyone,

I just want to share with you some of the problems I’ve been having with my 04 RT bike.

In Oct. of 2006, my bike had 16000K and I took it to my local Dealer for problems with my gas gauge and vacuum inside the tank. Both sending units inside the tank were replaced. The digital gas gauge, the carbon canister located on the rear of the bike was also replaced along with the fuel tank and the tank breather. BMW paid for all these parts since my bike was under warranty.

A year later with 20000 K, I’m experiencing the same problem. I decided to do the work myself and see what is going on. First I noticed it was hard to open the fuel tank. The vacuum is sucking the cap in and is hard to open. Next I removed the canister and noticed it was full. For my surprise, it wasn’t fuel, but WATER. I drained the canister, reinstalled and took it to work on the next day. Same problem. It was hard to open the gas cap. This weekend I took everything apart to see what was going on. That is when I found one of the sending units was crushed. It has an aluminum tube about 15 inches long, with two inches in diameter crushed from the vacuum pressure. Today I went to the Dealer and spoke with the Manager. He took me in the back and showed me three tubes on the shelf looking exactly like mine waiting for warranty claims. This sending units cost $165.00. To prevent in having this problem I removed the canister completely along with the respective tubes and I’m waiting for the new sending unit and filter to arrive. I hope this solves the problem.

I only use Chevron on my bike. So I got the bad fuel either here in Kailua or by the airport. A friend of mine owns the gas station by the airport and he is the one always on the news representing all gas stations. He took my bad unit and was going to the refinery to discuss the matter.

In my opinion, the problem is with the Ethanol. Being from Brazil, I know all the problems we all had 27 years ago with the introduction of the Ethanol. It’s a great fuel but it has water mixed up and the H2o can cause several problems for the vehicles. Today Brazil is more advance and all the cars are built for the ethanol or natural gas.

So what I’m suggesting is for you to monitor your gas tank. If you do notice that is getting hard to open the fuel cap, pull the canister out and see if it is full of water like mine. Today @ the shop, they had a police bike on the rack with the same problem. Take a look on this site.

http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/cannister_horn.shtml

It talks about removing the canister and running without it. I did that on my old 99 RT and never had any problems.

I don’t know if anyone in the mainland came across this issue, but it’s good to share problems with others. Who knows if someone has a better solution to the problem!

Thanks for your time

 

Alex

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I took the canister off my '02' RT within the first 100 miles. And I haven't looked back! thumbsup.gif

 

Sounds like the ethanol could be the problem. From what I have read, there are going to be more stuations like the one you are having. frown.gif

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Hello everyone,

I just want to share with you some of the problems I’ve been having with my 04 RT bike.

In Oct. of 2006, my bike had 16000K and I took it to my local Dealer for problems with my gas gauge and vacuum inside the tank. Both sending units inside the tank were replaced. The digital gas gauge, the carbon canister located on the rear of the bike was also replaced along with the fuel tank and the tank breather. BMW paid for all these parts since my bike was under warranty.

A year later with 20000 K, I’m experiencing the same problem. I decided to do the work myself and see what is going on. First I noticed it was hard to open the fuel tank. The vacuum is sucking the cap in and is hard to open. Next I removed the canister and noticed it was full. For my surprise, it wasn’t fuel, but WATER. I drained the canister, reinstalled and took it to work on the next day. Same problem. It was hard to open the gas cap. This weekend I took everything apart to see what was going on. That is when I found one of the sending units was crushed. It has an aluminum tube about 15 inches long, with two inches in diameter crushed from the vacuum pressure. Today I went to the Dealer and spoke with the Manager. He took me in the back and showed me three tubes on the shelf looking exactly like mine waiting for warranty claims. This sending units cost $165.00. To prevent in having this problem I removed the canister completely along with the respective tubes and I’m waiting for the new sending unit and filter to arrive. I hope this solves the problem.

I only use Chevron on my bike. So I got the bad fuel either here in Kailua or by the airport. A friend of mine owns the gas station by the airport and he is the one always on the news representing all gas stations. He took my bad unit and was going to the refinery to discuss the matter.

In my opinion, the problem is with the Ethanol. Being from Brazil, I know all the problems we all had 27 years ago with the introduction of the Ethanol. It’s a great fuel but it has water mixed up and the H2o can cause several problems for the vehicles. Today Brazil is more advance and all the cars are built for the ethanol or natural gas.

So what I’m suggesting is for you to monitor your gas tank. If you do notice that is getting hard to open the fuel cap, pull the canister out and see if it is full of water like mine. Today @ the shop, they had a police bike on the rack with the same problem. Take a look on this site.

http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/cannister_horn.shtml

It talks about removing the canister and running without it. I did that on my old 99 RT and never had any problems.

I don’t know if anyone in the mainland came across this issue, but it’s good to share problems with others. Who knows if someone has a better solution to the problem!

Thanks for your time

 

Alex

 

 

Alexp, I have a difficult time believing your problems were caused by Ethanol or water in your fuel.. That Evap Canister is a hydrocarbon vent & trap.. In order for the Ethanol/water to be a problem in plugging the evap can it would have to allow the water content in the fuel tank to turn to vapor then travel out the vent hose into the Evap can.. That would need to take place with the bike sitting for overnight or at least parked for a while.. Actual water would sink to the bottom of the tank after sitting & it’s difficult to believe the Ethanol vapors contain enough H2O to plug off your Evap can..

 

I at first thought you might have the tank vent & fill opening hoses reversed so the water drain off was entering the Evap can… But upon thinking it through that would mean the tank vent would just be routed to behind the R/H foot peg & not allow the vacuum problem in the tank to begin with..

 

I would more believe your problem is in the normal tank venting through the Evap can & as the fuel level drops in the tank it takes in replacement air through the Evap system & possibly pulling water in from the Evap atmospheric vent located behind the R/H foot peg & in a wet area while riding..

 

I would think that if your problem was caused from high Ethanol/water laden fuel there would be many automobiles & trucks with plugged off Evap systems also.. I haven’t seen anything to indicate that is happening in your State..

 

You don’t have a pin hole in your Evap can do you?

 

Also check the hose routing from the fuel fill opening water drain.. If for some strange reason that hose was plumbed into the Evap can atmospheric vent fitting (difficult to do) that would allow direct water entry into your Evap can..

 

Twisty

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Twisty

First, thank you for your input. No there are no holes in my canister and all the lines were connected correctly. I don’t discard the possibility of sucking water from the road. That is a good point! The can was very heavy and I find hard to believe that much water could be sucked in. There will be no more canisters for me soon.

Now as far as the Ethanol, I had several cars running with pure Ethanol and cars w/ gasoline/ alcohol added. Back than all we had was carburetors and they went bad really soon. We had to get new carbs coated w/ Nickel metal. Today with fuel injection, that problem is solved since there are no movement parts and a bowl were the fuel sits. We also had problems with mufflers, fuel tanks and lines which today it has been addressed.

The boat industry is having lots of problems. No fiberglass tanks are allowed since the alcohol destroys them and they are having lots of carbs issue since the fuel sits inside them for a long period of time.

Try this one. In the morning, get two cars started and leave right away. Stay inside the second car and pay attention on the tail pipe of the front car and see how much water it comes out of the pipe. That increased of water is because of the ethanol. I could be wrong but I’m just sharing my experiences with this fuel.

Second, how come several bikes are having problems with crushing sending units in Hawaii? It can’t be just my bike. Something else is doing….

 

Thanks again

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Alex everybody knows ethanol attracts water, that's why it's not pipeline friendly.

 

What I don't understand is how you think it is all ending up in the evap canister as opposed to dripping out your tailpipe post combustion.

 

There isn't that much ethanol in your gas, and therefore even if the ethanol is very water laden (possible due to the trip out to the island?), there isn't going to be enough water vapor evaporating out of your fuel to fill your evap can with water.

 

Unless the evap canister was improperly plumbed, I just don't see it. (edit: and if I'd expect it full of fuel, not water)

 

 

Take a cup of your fuel from your gas tank and put it in something glass. Cover it with saran wrap, secure it with a rubber band. Leave it in the sun and tell me how much water vapor you get on that saran wrap. Unless it's a TON, you don't have enough H20 evaporating out of your tank to fill your evap canister with water. You follow?

 

I'm no expert, I'm just offering my opinion - but all that canister does is filter fumes from the tank when the bike's at rest. Even if the tank was filled with water, you wouldn't get that much water in the evap canister.

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Fugu

I see your point. I also agree with you. I can't see that much water going to the canister from the fuel tank.

Don't know what to say...

Thanks

Alex

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Eh Brah,

Maybe da Kawainui Swamp went go flood ovanite an da wata went go inside your exhaust pipe heh, what you tink? Nah, only kidin. But, for sure if I was you I go take out da exhaust an run da kine strait pipe eh. Nah,nah, I no can help but tink your story so funny. But, no kidin eh, I too would take out the Kona coffee can an trow em in da dump an den see if dat go take away da problem. Try let me no later eh how tings work out. Cause some day I going bring my 06' R1200RT home an I no like get da problem like you eh.

 

Later & Aloha brah

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I've heard of people having this symptom as a result of bad routing of the vent hose. If it's pointed just the right way, it can suck up water spray from the road, and once it's in the canister, it has no place to go. Unfortunately the fix seemed to be to move the end of the hose so it pointed in a different direction and hope that fixed it.

 

If that is your problem, I would be a little concerned about just removing the canister, because if that vent hose is still positioned to suck up water, it could suck it into the gas tank and cause worse problems.

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