Dual Sports

[Vicious_Cycler]

I am considering adding a 650-ish dual sport to the stable. My goal is use it for commutes, grocery store, and dirt riding with some atv friends. Front runners are used KTM 640 Adventure or BMW F650 Dakar. I would also consider the Honda XR650L and Kawa KLR650, but I prefer the Euro's. I would be interested in members opinions of dual sports in general and the above possibilities specifically. Thanks in advance for the always thoughtful advice.

Glen

[Richard_D]

How much dirt and what kind of dirt?

[WURTY]

Honda and Kawa are real heavy.

You can ride them in the dirt but you also have to pick them up in the dirt.

If your really going to ride in the dirt get a smaller bike. 450cc maximum.

[russell_bynum]

What Wurty said.

 

That said...if you're just doing easy dirt roads, with the rest of the stuff on your list, I'd find a used KLR650 for $2500, add stainless lines, the bigger front rotor, and progressive fork springs, toss some TKC80's on there, and call it a day.

[Bob Palin]

dirt riding with some atv friends

ATVs and bikes handle some conditions quite differently, ATVs can crawl over all sorts of trails that pose a problem for heavy bikes. How long of a commute on what kind of roads?

[Gregori]

Quads & bikes? What Killer said!

 

For a while, I had a quad and dual sport bike mix, as my wife doesn't do 2-wheels well. But I quickly discovered that the places that were fun/suitable for quads weren't so much fun on a bike, and the places that were fun on a bike were pretty much inaccessible on a quad. (Particularly for an entry-level rider!)

 

So I ended up with a second quad to make riding together more fun, and sold the dual sport.

 

But now both quads are gone, and I've got a KTM 640 (LC4 enduro, not adventure) and it's a hoot.

It's NOT for a beginning rider, however - it's no feather-weight, and I dread the day I have to lift/drag it any distance.

Nor is it a fun commuter - the vibration will drive ya nuts! (My feet and hands hate it after more than 20 or 30 mins on the road.)

 

But for quick cross-town runs, or a boogie up the powerlines or dirt roads, it's hard not to twist it all the way up...

 

Perhaps the 640 Adventure has some magic to deaden the vibes (same powerplant as mine) but I'm starting to think the 950/990 Adventure may be in my future. (Although at almost 100 lbs pounds heavier (438 lbs dry) it's even less enticing to think about having to pick up...)

[tgrrdr]

I only rode an F650 once so any comments wouldn't be worth very much.

 

I like my KLR - wouldn't be a bad commuter bike depending on how far (I wouldn't use the KLR over my RT for my current 75 mile commute though). It's a little heavy for "dirt" but it does OK on fire roads even if they get a bit rough. I only ever rode mine with the stock (more street oriented tires) so I'm not sure how much of an improvement there would be with TKC's, 606's or other similar tires.

 

You might get more info here.

 

[Bob Palin]

Quads & bikes? What Killer said!

Yeah, things like this - why do ATV trails always have loose boulders all over them?

 

 

This sucker was Steep too, you can just see the bike at the top in the trees, taken this afternoon out by Fish Lake.

 

For the OP, that is a street legal CRF450X, it wouldn't suit your needs at all, definitely not a street bike.

 

I wouldn't consider the BMW, they seem delicate (see Chris Olson's Alaska trip) and are expensive to repair. The KLR is cheap and cheaply made but is surprisingly rugged and not bad on the street. The XL is a better dirt bike and should be OK on the street as well, not sure what the luggage situation is though, lots of options for the KLR.

[tgrrdr]

I just saw a thread where someone posed a similar question. A couple guys mentioned DR400's which I think would be a good comprimise if you want more dirt capabilities than the 650's offer but still OK on the street.

[Amac]

If you're specifically looking for a 6oo ish one, the V-strom would be the way to go.

[johnlt]

All the bikes you mentioned are very heavy and are really more "dirt road" bikes than "dirt bikes". I have a KLR and love it but it's too heavy for much real dirt. I also have a KLX250 which is a great dual sport. Nearly a foot of suspension travel and the 6th gear makes highway riding very dooable. Another would be the DRZ but it is heavier than the KLX.

[Joel]

Joining the chorus, the F650 isn't optimum for anything more technical than dirt roads. Commuting and dirt roads -- no problem. But we just had my wife's out on some trails. Because I hadn't scouted very well, I had to pay some marriage tax and get the F650 out of a few rough spots for her. Frankly, my 1200 handled those spots at least as well, if not better.

[motoguy128]

I used to have a KLX250S. Overall great bike around town and exploring local gravel roads. I took it to an ATV park with a motorcross track once and had a good time. It's about 300lbs wet, and pretty easy to pick up. Dropped it a dozen times with not damage other than scratches. You could probably lowside this thing at 40mph, dust yourself off and ride away. It once fell off my trailer when unloading and left only a tiny dent in the metal tank.

 

If you ride solo, don't need to ride long distances over 60mph (tope speed around 85mph), and your commute is under 15-20 miles each way, This is a great way to go. The '08 model has updated brakes, updated tranny, revised suspension tuning, shorter suspension travel (still 9"+) and better headlight.

[Tapatio]

How about a Husqvarna? If you can wait a little longer I'm sure that BMW will help them develop some progressive bikes that will compete head on with KTM.

 

[Bob Palin]

How about a Husqvarna? If you can wait a little longer I'm sure that BMW will help them develop some progressive bikes that will compete head on with KTM.

 

He would have to go back a forth to the grocery store 4-5 times on that thing and gas up each time

[chrisolson]

I wouldn't consider the BMW, they seem delicate (see Chris Olson's Alaska trip)

 

Well, only if you hit wheel sized pot holes dead on at 60mph do you loose the entire tail light assembly. (but NO bent rims!!)

 

Actually I gained a lot of respect for the 650. Yeah, it ain't no dirt bike but it was light enought to be quite happy doing the Dempster and also heavy enough and had plenty of power that going 75 mph for hours on end with blasts to 90 passing folks on the highway wan't an issue either. It started effortlessly every time and would go comfortably over 200 miles per tank. And if you ever saw what Jacqueline had loaded on hers when in Alaska well ....

 

With over 7000 miles in 23 days on a F650GS ... I'd do it again on the same bike!

[Dances_With_Wiener_Dogs]

I've got a KTM 640 (LC4 enduro, not adventure) and it's a hoot.

It's NOT for a beginning rider, however - it's no feather-weight, and I dread the day I have to lift/drag it any distance.

Nor is it a fun commuter - the vibration will drive ya nuts!

Actually I find mine to be a great commuter...but my commute is only 25 minutes so it's not too bad. Running the knobbies on the street certainly adds to the vibration. The perfect setup would be a second set of wheels with street rubber.

[hANNAbONE]

mY 2005 kAWASAKI KLR650 is for sale..

sent you a pm...

[harleyjohn45]

suzuki DR650

[BruceWA]

and dirt riding with some atv friends.

 

Like many dirt bike riders I have learned to avoid riding in off road areas that ATV riders frequent. Have had too many close encounters to be willing to take the risk. Am not singling out ATV riders here, since I have seen riders of both using less than their full mental capabilities.

[Wyn]

Suzuki DL 650 V Strom hands down. Switch out the stock tires and your on the run!!

[Richard_D]

I'd like to see someone on a v-strom go riding with atv's.

[roadscholar]

.

[Wyn]

I'd like to see someone on a v-strom go riding with atv's.

 

Dunno, but it has won the Transalp race for about 10 years in a row now. I believe some of it is dirt.

[roadscholar]

I would be interested in seeing one of those.

[Richard_D]

I think you may be mixing up your bikes. Has the v-strom been out for ten years? Please show me on some web page where the v-strom won ten years in a row. I searched and couldn't find it.

[Bill_Walker]

I think you may be mixing up your bikes. Has the v-strom been out for ten years? Please show me on some web page where the v-strom won ten years in a row. I searched and couldn't find it.

 

'02 was the first year for the V-Strom in the US. I think it came out in Europe a year or two earlier.

[Richard_D]

If Wyn is right, then this must be the year 2012. Where does the time go?

[kcscout]

Lot's of reading here (LINKY)

[grizzly660fan]

Suzuki DL 650 V Strom hands down. Switch out the stock tires and your on the run!!

 

it really depends on what you are doing offroad with that ATV's and the bike. I own ATV's, trail bikes, and my wife rides a vstrom 650 I have taken off road.

 

I would not put that vstrom anywhere but the mild roads with that ATV's. the two track atv trails here in Utah are to extreme for a vstrom in my opinion. a mild jeep trail is fine (have done it just fine on the vstrom) but thats about where I would limit it.

 

the vstrom is great on road we do 400 - 500 miles days with the vstrom.

 

I think the only real solution is to get one of each and then you can be set.

 

good luck in your hunt!

[soboy]

What percentage of your riding is going to be on pavement and of your dirt riding, what percent of that is going to be true off road conditions v. dirt and/or gravel roads?

 

The KTM will vibrate you to annoyance on the street. The Dakar is a good choice if you are going to spend more time on the pavement than the dirt. Drops can be expensive on this bike. The Honda is the most dirt-oriented of all the 3 Japanese 650 single cylinder dual sports, the KLR the most street oriented (but better off road than the Dakar). The VStrom 650 (I owned one) is a fantastic street bike and a surprisingly good dirt road bike, but is not suitable for true off road conditions.

 

I suggest the one bike you did not mention - the Suzuki DR650. I have one and it is the most versatile bike I have ever owned. It is smooth for a single, handles great on pavement, can be used for commuting, touring, playing sportbike AND it is far better in true off road conditions than you would think. There simply is no comparison in off road capability between the DR and the VStrom - the DR feels like a dirt bike is supposed to feel off road, the VStrom feels like you have taken a street bike somewhere it does not belong.

 

I have taken my DR650 touring on the BRP and off roading on goat trails - it handles all of it with ease (this assumes you have off road riding skills - 650s are very large bikes to play off road on and if you don't have the experience off road, you are far better off with a smaller bike, preferably a 250 or smaller).

 

Good luck with your search.

[BruceWA]

The KTM will vibrate you to annoyance on the street.

 

Have to say my 450EXC vibrates closely to my 04 R1150RT. The key is you don't want to run the EXC on the Interstates at 70 mph for long.

 

Dual Sport is a collective term that includes pure dirt bikes and other large, heavy, ill equipped bikes for serious off roading. For myself a plated dirt bike is the only consideration for "dual sport", anything else is too much of a compromise in the dirt.

 

It really depends on the riders skills and intended application.

[Vicious_Cycler]

I appreciate all the great advice. Probably the most important thing I've gained from this discussion is that I'm not sure what I want to do right now. Having saved a little play money, it was just burning a hole in my pocket !

 

Anyway, I thought I might get some new gear and upgrade some old and save the rest for when I have a clearer direction for a second bike(don't tell She_Viscious ).

 

Any good gear advice is welcome. Check out my other post, "Riding Suits". Thanks again as always.

[soboy]

The KTM will vibrate you to annoyance on the street.

 

Have to say my 450EXC vibrates closely to my 04 R1150RT. The key is you don't want to run the EXC on the Interstates at 70 mph for long.

 

Dual Sport is a collective term that includes pure dirt bikes and other large, heavy, ill equipped bikes for serious off roading. For myself a plated dirt bike is the only consideration for "dual sport", anything else is too much of a compromise in the dirt.

 

It really depends on the riders skills and intended application.

 

 

The KTM 640 is a paint mixer, the guys I have ridden with that have one can't stand it on the street for more than 15 minutes at a time. I started riding in 1972 on a Yamaha JT1 (also known as the mini-enduro 60). In 1975, I got into riding street legal dual sports on a Yamaha DT100. They called them enduros back then. A 250 2 stroke was considered a handful off road - funny how times change. Among the guys I rode with back then, the Yamaha 360 and 400 2 strokes were "for expert riders only".

 

I do agree with you about rider skills and intended applications. I enjoy taking my DR650 on single track, but I would never advise a noob to try that. For me, dual sporting is all about riding out of my driveway, taking the twistiest, supermoto style back roads I can find to the trails, then riding all the trails I want to, then riding the bike back home. And riding a combination of dirt, gravel and paved roads that really do feel like supermoto courses. Around here, that kind of riding is doable on a 250 if you are small and light and don't care about going over 60 mph on your way to the trails, but it is much more fun on a 400 or 650 that has some reserve power to get away from crazy cages on our way to the dirt.

[MAT2CHI]

I still use my Suzuki DR350S as my dual sport. It's street capable, even on the freeway at 65+, but it's also pretty good on the trails, and not just the fire roads. 1994 and up Suzuki DR's came with an electric start, but my old 1992 kicker is just what I need for dual sporting. Below is what it looks like.

 

[Wyn]

I think you may be mixing up your bikes. Has the v-strom been out for ten years? Please show me on some web page where the v-strom won ten years in a row. I searched and couldn't find it.

 

Sorry got my info. from a riding buddy from Munich. Perhaps it's from inception.

[velomoto]

I appreciate all the great advice. Probably the most important thing I've gained from this discussion is that I'm not sure what I want to do right now.

I think that puts you in the majority! Don't beat yourself up too hard - it's not easy to figure out what ya want until you've been out riding. Lots of people think they know exactly what they want (need?) before they buy the bike - only to learn that the bike or the riding isn't what they expected. These folks account for lots of that low mileage gear used gear! Used gear is a great place to start.

 

"Dual sport" encompasses a very diverse spectrum of bikes and uses. If you have a group of friends you're looking to ride with, I'd suggest starting with a used bike with similar attributes (ie. if they're on v-stroms and similar bikes, then you'd probably be happier with a more road worthy bike. If they're on plated dirt bikes, a v-strom is going to be a "challenge" to keep up.).

[eakins]

DR650 is the true 50/50.

 

ultra realiable, cheap, smooth, better built than KLR, simple design, easy to wrench on, good aftermarket support, fun to ride, will do 80 all day then hop on single track.

 

upgrade the suspensions & seat...add a small windshield & large tank if needed and your golden: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135295

 

buy a used 04 or later and ride the world.

 

take a look below...i own the most reliable bikes ever built in their respectable catagories. choose your type of dual and follow accordingly.

[texasaggie97]

quick question? How tall are you? The Buell Ulysses is a huge bike I can not even get my tip toes on the ground and I am 5' 7''. I really liked the bike but dang it tall.

[soboy]

DR650 is the true 50/50.

 

ultra realiable, cheap, smooth, better built than KLR, simple design, easy to wrench on, good aftermarket support, fun to ride, will do 80 all day then hop on single track.

 

upgrade the suspensions & seat...add a small windshield & large tank if needed and your golden: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135295

 

buy a used 04 or later and ride the world.

 

take a look below...i own the most reliable bikes ever built in their respectable catagories. choose your type of dual and follow accordingly.

 

A big +1 on the DR650. The only farkle I found absolutely necessary was the corbin seat, which transformed the bike from "40 miles and my ass is killing me" to "350 miles and I'm still feeling great!" Best $300 I ever spent. On the advice of sporttour.com (great, knowledgeable folks), I ordered my corbin with a leather top and vinyl sides and it still looks brand new after 18 months. Verrrry comfortable seat.

 

I also added an aluminum skid plate, which is, in my opinion, necessary if you are doing any real off road work - prevents those pesky holes in your engine case. Other farkles that I added just for fun were a set of protaper se bars in the CR high bend, cyra pro billet aluminum hand guards (so much better than stock and less than $100 with wind deflectors), a formotion clock, heated grips with a heat-troller (makes the bike a year round ride) and progrip rally gel grips.

 

The DR really is a 50/50 bike - I'd take it anywhere, from a cross country trip to the Trans Am trail or Continental Divide trail. It will climb goat trails and carve asphalt corners, often during the same ride. Other than my 1972 Yamaha mini-enduro, I've never had more fun on a bike than I have on my DR.

[eakins]

dr650 is your bike. low to start with and can be factory lowered even more.

quick question? How tall are you? The Buell Ulysses is a huge bike I can not even get my tip toes on the ground and I am 5' 7''. I really liked the bike but dang it tall.