Oil consumption on 1100RT

[yechave]

I was not able to find out what the mileage was when we got the bike (somewhere around 34,500), not on the sales docs or their computer records, but the dealer added some oil when I got the bike, and I just added .5 qt after 800 miles. Just wondered if this sounded normal, so I can figure on whether or not needing to carry oil or other items for this trip to VA later in the month.

 

I thought I would have the dealer do the 36k service and not need to worry about anything for this short a ride, but they can't get it in for five weeks. Hate to carry more stuff in leggage bags that will already be filled to the max.

 

Not seeing any leaks, where is the oil going? I see no smoke whatsoever.

 

Can you mix any brand of oil with BMW oil. I know some brands are not compatable.

 

Thank you.......

 

Thanks!

[T__]

I was not able to find out what the mileage was when we got the bike (somewhere around 34,500), not on the sales docs or their computer records, but the dealer added some oil when I got the bike, and I just added .5 qt after 800 miles. Just wondered if this sounded normal, so I can figure on whether or not needing to carry oil or other items for this trip to VA later in the month.

 

I thought I would have the dealer do the 36k service and not need to worry about anything for this short a ride, but they can't get it in for five weeks. Hate to carry more stuff in leggage bags that will already be filled to the max.

 

Not seeing any leaks, where is the oil going? I see no smoke whatsoever.

 

Can you mix any brand of oil with BMW oil. I know some brands are not compatable.

 

Thank you.......

 

Thanks!

 

 

Wayne, .5 quarts in 800 miles would be lot of oil usage.. Not extreme but a lot..

 

In most cases they aren’t using the oil but it is in the way oil level is viewed.. It is very easy to mis-read the oil level & over fill the engine..

 

Ride your bike for about 20 minutes or more.. Then park it on the side stand for about ½ hour.. The place it on the center stand for about ½ hour.. Then look at the oil level.. I would be surprised if it isn’t slightly over full using the above method.. Don’t shortcut the 20 minute warm up as that assures the oil thermostat opens..

 

On mixing engine oil.. Not the best of habits but most all modern motor oil is compatible with similar oil’s of other brands.. Sometime the additive packages are not an exact match but shouldn’t hurt anything..

 

Twisty

[yechave]

Just wanted to make sure you did not misunderstand my statement. That was one half quart of oil that was added.

 

The level was checked after sitting on the center stand all night.

 

The question of using another brand of oil, was just in case I find myself on a trip, and have to take what I can get. As long as not mixing sythetic, I would assume that any normal brand of oil, has to be better than none at all.

 

The Haynes manual should be here in two days....hope that helps clear up many of my questions. Appreicate the replies!

[russell_bynum]

Just wanted to make sure you did not misunderstand my statement. That was one half quart of oil that was added.

 

The level was checked after sitting on the center stand all night.

 

The question of using another brand of oil, was just in case I find myself on a trip, and have to take what I can get. As long as not mixing sythetic, I would assume that any normal brand of oil, has to be better than none at all.

 

The Haynes manual should be here in two days....hope that helps clear up many of my questions. Appreicate the replies!

 

The bike needs to sit on the sidestand for a bit after the thermostat opens to make sure the oil drains out of the oil cooler.

 

Here's what I do:

I do that whole "ride the bike, park it on the sidestand for a while, then on the centerstand for a while and check the level" dance after each oil change.

 

Between oil changes, I look at the sight glass when the bike is on the sidestand. If I can see oil, I declare victory and move on to greater challenges.

 

As for adding oil on a trip...oil is a religion around here. Some will say that if you use anything but the official BMW stuff, your motor will sieze, your toenails will fall off, the IRS will audit you, and 2 puppies are put to sleep for every quart of non-bmw oil you use.

 

I follow Ed's method: if it says "Oil" on the side of the bottle, it's good.

 

OK, maybe I'm not THAT lax about it, but basically as long as the viscosity is close, it's good enough for me. Lately, I've been running Chevron Delo 400 in all of my internal combustion engines (except the wife's BMW cage because it takes a different viscosity) from my diesel pickup to my 600cc track bike.

 

I'm sure 10 people will jump on this thread and tell me I'm going to hell for that, but I can get the Delo stuff at Costco in bulk and it makes life much easier only having to keep one type of oil on hand for 8 vehicles, the pressure washer, and the lawn maintenance equipment.

[steveknapp]

I'm sure 10 people will jump on this thread and tell me I'm going to hell for that

 

I'll see you in hell, but not for that.

[russell_bynum]

I'm sure 10 people will jump on this thread and tell me I'm going to hell for that

 

I'll see you in hell, but not for that.

 

 

It's for the KOA thing, isn't it?

 

 

 

Cool...I'll save you a seat.

[T__]

Just wanted to make sure you did not misunderstand my statement. That was one half quart of oil that was added.

 

The level was checked after sitting on the center stand all night.

 

The question of using another brand of oil, was just in case I find myself on a trip, and have to take what I can get. As long as not mixing sythetic, I would assume that any normal brand of oil, has to be better than none at all.

 

The Haynes manual should be here in two days....hope that helps clear up many of my questions. Appreicate the replies!

 

 

Wayne, you really need to put it on the side stand for a while first before placing it on the center stand, otherwise the oil cooler doesn’t drain back completely..

 

.5 (5 tenths) quarts is ½ quart..

 

Mixing synthetic oil with conventional oil is OK just not the best practice.. Almost any motorcycle shop on your trip should have a comparable synthetic oil to what you are using.. Even most good chain type auto parts stores will have some type of motorcycle specific synthetic oil.. You can even find Mobil 1, 15W50 extended (gold cap) about everywhere & that should mix fine with your current motor oil…

 

Twisty

[smiller]

Don’t shortcut the 20 minute warm up as that assures the oil thermostat opens..

You can also tell when the oil thermostat opens by placing your hand on the oil cooler. When the thermostat opens the temperature change is quite dramatic... the oil cooler will go from cool to the touch to too hot to touch within about 20 seconds.

 

When I change the oil I add new oil (bike on centerstand) until I can just see it in the sight glass, then run the engine until the oil cooler gets hot (use a fan to keep the headpipes cool), then shut it down and place the bike on the sidestand for ten minutes or so. Back on the centerstand and add oil to the red dot. This procedure works very well for me and afterwards there are no followup oil level adjustments required, the level will be at the red dot even after successive temperature cycling.

[yechave]

Now you have me wondering if I didn't put too much oil in?

Never thought about the oil cooler, never had one before. Hope I get this all figured out before taking our vacation this month..... sure has been one fast-track learning experience!

 

Had it not been for this forum, I most likely would have put the bike on consigment sale.

[smiller]

Now you have me wondering if I didn't put too much oil in?

No problem, just do the oil check drill (make sure the bike has come to full operating temperature, place on sidestand for 10 minutes or so, then place on centerstand and check sight glass.) If the oil level is anywhere within the window then you are OK (but the point to aim for is the red dot.) If you see no oil there are two possibilities... first is that you are low on oil and the second is that you are overfilled and the entire sight glass is covered (the latter condition has fooled more than a few.) Anyway, if you see what appears to be no oil make sure which of the two it really is.

[eddd]

...Lately, I've been running Chevron Delo 400 in all of my internal combustion engines (except the wife's BMW cage because it takes a different viscosity) from my diesel pickup to my 600cc track bike.

 

I'm sure 10 people will jump on this thread and tell me I'm going to hell for that, but I can get the Delo stuff at Costco in bulk and it makes life much easier only having to keep one type of oil on hand for 8 vehicles, the pressure washer, and the lawn maintenance equipment.

 

I do the same thing as Russel, but with Shell Rotella: lawn mower, diesel pick up, RT, 6 fire trucks, generators, diesel-powered pumps, gas-powered pumps, compressors, jaws of life pumps...

 

You get the idea. Both Rotella and Delo are quality oils. We've been running Rotella for years in all the fire department equipment.

[smiller]

I also use Rotella in (almost) everything but am a little concerned that BMW clearly specifies a 50-weight oil for the oilheads when operated in hot ambient temperatures. Does it really matter whether the oil is a 15W-40 or a 15W-50? Probably not, but...

[Tipover_Bob]

Wayne:

I am one of those crazy people that believes my oil cooler and oil filter are full of oil when I am underway, on my bike of course. Therefore, I want to read my oil level fairly quickly after shut down when the oil cooler and oil filter are still full of oil. I do this by putting the bike on the center-stand immediately and checking the oil level within thirty seconds. I want the oil level to be even with the center dot on the sight glass. This way the oil level in the crankcase is at the level that the designer intended and not a half quart low. Consequently, splash and other lubrication efforts are achieved the way the engine was designed and developed.

Tipover Bob

[smiller]

This way the oil level in the crankcase is at the level that the designer intended and not a half quart low.

You are operating under the assumption that the red dot is meant to indicate the proper oil level while the engine is running and that is not necessarily correct. The red dot is simply placed at a point that will help the operator gauge the proper static fill. The oil level is 'at the level the designer intended' when the factory specified amount is in the crankcase, which will put the oil level at the red dot when using the check procedure described earlier in the thread.

[Tipover_Bob]

This way the oil level in the crankcase is at the level that the designer intended and not a half quart low.

You are operating under the assumption that the red dot is meant to indicate the proper oil level while the engine is running and that is not necessarily correct. The red dot is simply placed at a point that will help the operator gauge the proper static fill. The oil level is 'at the level the designer intended' when the factory specified amount is in the crankcase, which will put the oil level at the red dot when using the check procedure described earlier in the thread.

 

Wrong, wrong, and wrong; I said check the oil level at the center dot 30 seconds after shut down.

Tipover Bob

[eddd]

This way the oil level in the crankcase is at the level that the designer intended and not a half quart low.

You are operating under the assumption that the red dot is meant to indicate the proper oil level while the engine is running and that is not necessarily correct. The red dot is simply placed at a point that will help the operator gauge the proper static fill. The oil level is 'at the level the designer intended' when the factory specified amount is in the crankcase, which will put the oil level at the red dot when using the check procedure described earlier in the thread.

 

Wrong, wrong, and wrong; I said check the oil level at the center dot 30 seconds after shut down.

Tipover Bob

 

I don't want to get into pi**ing match, and you can check your oil any way that makes you happy. Just understand that the way you are doing it is not the recommended procedure (recommended by BMW, BTW), and could result in you having too much oil in your bike.

[yechave]

One might think for another $10, they could have just used a dipstick on the machine. Either way, I sure am not low on oil now.

 

With this much to know about checking the oil, I am surprised the dealer did not spend more time explaining this, as well as the proper way to use the clutch. I drove a lot of miles in 20 yrs of riding, and never had a clutch issue on any of my bikes, none of which were a BMW.

 

Once again, I can't say enough about the oustanding information being offered on this forum. Thanks!

[WaywardSon]

Half a quart in 800 miles sounds like a lot to me. One thing I have noticed about mine (96 1100 RT) is that the level in the sight glass is not totally consistent. I suspect this is because there are times when I do a pre-ride check for example & it may have been a few days since I shut the bike down...could be that I did not let it sit on the sidestand for a few minutes before putting it up on the centerstand. Who knows? Just make sure that your routine is the same for checking it.

 

I have about 1500-2000 miles on my last oil change and cannot tell that it has used any oil. FWIW...like some others here, I run Chevron Delo 400 in everything I own.

[philbytx]

Howdy

 

Being entirely anal , I am sticking to the 50 weight in my RT.

Now, I like Rotella a LOT....I use it in Deb's Subaru, in our lawnmower, pressure washer and also used it in our RV for years.

My other BMW, a cage (m50tuB25 6cyl motor), also specifies 20w50 for higher heat (Texas!!!) applications. However, even in IL, I consistently used 15w50 Mobil1 in it since 15k which was 11 years ago and THAT motor runs like a sewing machine and uses no oil between changes!

 

Also, most 40wt oils generally shear down to 30 so that is why I stuck with 20w50 dino and now 15w50 synthetic .

 

So...my answer in a "lengthy" nutshell

[NonComp]

Some interesting observations on oil level from my recent experiences with the r1100r:

 

I originally filled from a 4.4 litre jug. There is currently about .5 litres left in the jug.

 

I consistently got a checked oil level (when the bike was parked directly on the center stand from running) of full to the top of the sight glass.

 

I decided to drain some oil be removing and dumping the contents of the filter. I did this and the resulting oil level was centered in the site glass (straight to center stand from running).

 

I drove the bike approximately 600 miles last weekend. Oil level dropped to just under center of sight glass (straight to center stand from running).

 

Now, here's where I gets interesting. I drove the bike to work yesterday (20 minutes), parked it on the sidestand until noon, the went to center stand. Oil level was half way between center and bottom of sight glass -- down just a bit. There was no noticable change between the oil level on side stand and center stand.

 

Then I drove the bike home (an hour -- took the 'long way' home). Straight to center stand from running. Oil level is the same -- half way between center and bottom.

 

Conclusion: on my bike there is little or no difference between checking the oil level displayed when the oil dance is done, or when the you go straight to center stand. I tend to check oil level in the morning when the bike has sat at least overnight.

[SinNH]

Wayne:

I am one of those crazy people that believes my oil cooler and oil filter are full of oil when I am underway, on my bike of course. Therefore, I want to read my oil level fairly quickly after shut down when the oil cooler and oil filter are still full of oil. I do this by putting the bike on the center-stand immediately and checking the oil level within thirty seconds. I want the oil level to be even with the center dot on the sight glass. This way the oil level in the crankcase is at the level that the designer intended and not a half quart low. Consequently, splash and other lubrication efforts are achieved the way the engine was designed and developed.

Tipover Bob

 

Bob, sounds good to me. I am curious if you have ever changed your oil and filter, added the four quarts, gone for a hour ride or so and come home , directly to the c-stand and checked the level ?

I like keeping my bikes to max level too. I used to lay my 78 Duc 900SS's peg over on a 4x4 so I could get the entire fifth quart in . ( straight 50wt ).

I dunno, but seems to me, the more oil , the better the cooling of hot spots.

Steve

[Stan Walker]

on my bike there is little or no difference between checking the oil level displayed when the oil dance is done, or

 

Dance only needed for RT.

 

Stan

[NonComp]

I like keeping my bikes to max level too. I used to lay my 78 Duc 900SS's peg over on a 4x4 so I could get the entire fifth quart in . ( straight 50wt ).

I dunno, but seems to me, the more oil , the better the cooling of hot spots.

Steve

I was taught that overfilling may cause excessive foaming of the oil as the end of the cranks beat it and introduce air. This can cause the poor oil circulation through coolers and pump.

[deaks]

I was taught that overfilling may cause excessive foaming of the oil as the end of the cranks beat it and introduce air. This can cause the poor oil circulation through coolers and pump.

 

Ok, that's interesting to know - I always thought overfilling caused increased oil pressure and could force it past the piston rings....

 

My R1100RT has 52,000 miles on the clock and I also have quite high oil usage - If I fill to the 'dot' (measured when the engine is cold) after about 500 miles it's near the bottom of the circle gauge. I usually use synthetic oil, but have been advised to use mineral instead. The claim is that it's slightly thicker, so doesn't get out so easily.... I know this an incredibly sensitive subject, but I am thinking about changing on my next service - I figured that 6000 miles on mineral oil would not hurt too much and if it's leaking because the PO was too gentle, then maybe it will help bed the bits in better..... If the oil consumption goes down, then I'll change back to synthetic on the next service....

 

Any thoughts?

 

Scott

[yucca]

Overfilling with oil can easly be checked by removing the plug located just below the air box, many people do not know about this, on the left side, just below the airbox is an easly accessable plug, which collects overfill, open it, if oil comes out you are overfilling. Yucca

[smiller]

My R1100RT has 52,000 miles on the clock and I also have quite high oil usage

Well have faith, my R1100RT exhibited high oil usage when new which very slowly but steadily declined over the years such that now at 90k miles oil consumption is virtually nil. In retrospect I guess I'd rather have a bike that uses a lot of oil when new and none at 90k than a bike that uses little oil when new and a lot at 90k...

[yechave]

Deaks,

A service manager where I bought my 1100RT, also has one he bought new. He stated as well not to use synthetic oil Being he spends five days a week at the largest selling BMW dealer in the area, I trust his judgement on that.

 

I did not know about checking the air box, but I was told if it was overfull, the oil would blow out there.

 

All I know, since I added the oil, I have now checked warm on both stands, and the sight glass is completely full. How much over than it should be, I don't know. I have to look in the manual about the air box access.

 

Finally feeling better about how the trans works with just over 1k miles of riding now. I don't see any oil leaks, no smoke, so I am going to use it the way it is for now.

 

Greatly appreciate all the feedback on the sugject. Thanks!

[T__]

Deaks,

A service manager where I bought my 1100RT, also has one he bought new. He stated as well not to use synthetic oil Being he spends five days a week at the largest selling BMW dealer in the area, I trust his judgement on that.

 

I did not know about checking the air box, but I was told if it was overfull, the oil would blow out there.

 

All I know, since I added the oil, I have now checked warm on both stands, and the sight glass is completely full. How much over than it should be, I don't know. I have to look in the manual about the air box access.

 

Finally feeling better about how the trans works with just over 1k miles of riding now. I don't see any oil leaks, no smoke, so I am going to use it the way it is for now.

 

Greatly appreciate all the feedback on the sugject. Thanks!

 

 

Wayne, as you can see you over fill those BMW boxers quite a ways before any crankshaft to oil interference exists.. The oil level is WAY below the bottom of the crankshaft in the boxer (see red line).. A little over fill on the boxer can be tolerated with no side effects..

 

Twisty

[russell_bynum]

A service manager where I bought my 1100RT, also has one he bought new. He stated as well not to use synthetic oil Being he spends five days a week at the largest selling BMW dealer in the area, I trust his judgement on that.

 

Dinosaur juice is fine, but I believe the CHP bikes all get synthetic at the first oil change, so clearly that's OK too.

 

All I know, since I added the oil, I have now checked warm on both stands, and the sight glass is completely full. How much over than it should be, I don't know. I have to look in the manual about the air box access.

 

Personally, I'd try to get some of that oil out of there. Probably the easiest way is to remove the filter, dump it, then put it back on and re-check. Repeat until you get the correct oil level.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Windage, the crankshaft whipping the oil into a froth due to the direct contact of the crank or components with the oil, isn't really the problem when one overfills the crankcase slightly. The real problem stems from the reduction in crankcase volume and the corresponding effect it has on changes in crankcase pressure during running. It is this rise in pressure as the pistons approach BDC that forces the oil mist (almost always present) out through the breather and into the air cleaner. As you reduce the non-swept volume of the crankcase, the pressure incursions increase in severity.

[yechave]

Thanks for posting that schematic Twisty!

 

I intend to take my first motorcycling trip in 18+ yrs, first ever with a passenger, the end of this month (3 days, maybe 5 if it goes really well), and don't expect to need to carry any spare oil. I think I may take one or two of the MSR fuel canisters however.

 

I will check the oil every other day, see what happens. So far, the oil is completely full in the sight glass. I added that half a quart almost 450 miles ago.

 

Interesting the question has provided some many replies. Glad I asked. Thanks!

[Tipover_Bob]

Windage, the crankshaft whipping the oil into a froth due to the direct contact of the crank or components with the oil, isn't really the problem when one overfills the crankcase slightly. The real problem stems from the reduction in crankcase volume and the corresponding effect it has on changes in crankcase pressure during running. It is this rise in pressure as the pistons approach BDC that forces the oil mist (almost always present) out through the breather and into the air cleaner. As you reduce the non-swept volume of the crankcase, the pressure incursions increase in severity.

 

SSE:

Actually, it is not so much the windage as the resonance frequency between the rpms and the specific volumn of air. At certain frequencies reasonance takes place resulting in a drastic back and forth vibration similar to the power peaks set up by expansion chambers on racing two strokes. This back and forth motion of the gasses in the open spaces of the engine carries more oil droplets and actually pounds them into the breather system. That is why some people who have a propensity to run at certain specific high rpms, for instance between 4750 rpms and 4850 rpms also have a problem with oil build up in their air cleaners. This extra blow-by is generally exhibited only by certain models which again, have the tendency to develope the reasonance aforementioned. If you believe this you will probably believe anything.

Tipover Bob

[NonComp]

Personally, I'd try to get some of that oil out of there. Probably the easiest way is to remove the filter, dump it, then put it back on and re-check. Repeat until you get the correct oil level.

From recent experience with an r1100r, you can spin off the filter, dump it without having to worry about additional oil coming out, and get a measured reduction in oil level without messing up a crush washer. Mine went from slightly over full to center of the sight glass with one dump.

[T__]

Just how much effect does a few ounces of extra oil have on all that internal crankcase volume of a large aluminum casting that isn’t machined inside to any measurable tolerances (heck it’s just a casting) .. I don’t buy that argument.. Maybe a gallon but not a few ounces..

 

As far as internal cavity air pressure deviance or even air volume resonance due to piston movement.. That is always present in a boxer no matter what the oil level & a few ounces of extra oil won’t change that enough to remove it or move it to another RPM out of operational range.. It’s a fact that comes with the boxer engine no matter the oil level.. That is precisely why BMW chose to use a crankshaft timed crankcase vent system to allow controlled crankcase venting.. Probably not so much the air mass resonance but more to do with massive internal air volume changes..

 

Twisty

[yechave]

Needing to make another trip to the dealer anyway, I had the shop owner (Hermy) check the bike on the oil issue. He removed the left side panel. Under the air box is a drain plug, which just unscrews by hand. There were a few drops of oil, but nothing much to worry about. No longer a concern on my end, until I need to add oil somewhere down the road. So, based on the fact it never needed the half quart at 800 miles, it is not too likely I will need any in the next 800-1000 miles. By then it will be in the shop for routine service.

 

Appreicate all the input!

[yucca]

I am not sure your manual will show the oil overflow drain plug, (mine did not) (see attachment) Yucca

[yechave]

#14 in the attachment is the air box oil overflow drain check (probably a better description for it, but that will suffice). I would not have found that, had I not been shown. Guess I need to buy the CD repair manual too. Thanks!