Newbie Question: Does a BMW Sport Tourer make a good first bike?

[Uhlmann]

Hello everyone,

 

I am new to the forum, but boy am I glad I found it!

 

I am 37 years old and have never ridden before but really do I want to! And I have always admired (more like drooled over) the BMW bikes in the parking lot at work.

 

So over the course of the winter my plan is to read and study and ask questions. I will be taking the MSF class in the spring to get my certification, too. And then the trick is to actually get a bike.

 

My intent here is to enjoy the sport of riding, not go as fast as possible or impress people. I think of myself as fairly level headed and mature. I can ride a bicycle >wink<. But I don't have scads of money or space to have a stable of bikes.

 

So my question to you is: is it unreasonable to go for a BMW bike out of the gate or is it more of something one "graduates" to?

 

Thanks a lot! I look forward to your responses!

 

Greg

[Jerry_75_Guy]

So my question to you is: is it unreasonable to go for a BMW bike out of the gate or is it more of something one "graduates" to?

 

The short answer is 'yes'.

 

I made the mistake of buying a used '93 K1100LT as my first bike, and although I loved that bike, I should have purchased a smaller, lighter bike first, built my skills, then purchased the K bike.

 

You can buy a heavier bike first and make it work, I did, but it definately isn't the best way to go about entering the sport.

 

Buy a lighter, inexpensive bike, then move up to the Beemer (or any other heavy bike) after you've built up your skills.

[jfixit]

A lot of your decision should depend on your physical stature. It's hard to give any advice without knowing what it is.

[russell_bynum]

Bad idea.

 

Pick up a USED, small, lightweight bike. Something like an SV650, FZ6, or similar.

 

Ride it for a year, then see what you really want. (You may also find that you're having so much fun with the small bike that you'll keep it when you get your "dream" bike.

[Stan Walker]

+1 on what Jerry said.

 

Buy a smaller bike to learn on. A used BMW F650GS or even older F650 Funduro is about right. Something that weighs around 400 pounds, has about 50 hp, is cheap because it's old and used, and you won't feel to bad should you make a mistake a drop it.

 

Dropping a brand new RT can be both heart breaking and expensive. And isn't that hard to do when you are first learning.

 

After a year of so with the older cheaper smaller bike you can probably sell it for about what you paid for it and consider stepping up to the bike of your dreams.

 

Don't forget there is always the possibility that after a year you decide that riding isn't what you want to do. A new BMW takes a big hit on the first years depreciation. I would be sure it's what you want first.

 

Stan

50 years riding.

[Little Joe]

Welcome to the board and to a world of fun.

 

The majority of answers you'll get here will be of the "learn on something smaller" variety. I agree, with one caveat. If you're 6'4", like me, your options on smaller displacement bikes are more limited. A dual sport is probably your best bet, with a conventional riding position and taller stance.

 

If you are 6', 180 lbs. or under, something like a Suzuki SV650, a dual-sport, even a 250cc Rebel would do the trick. Easy to manuever, comfortable to ride a couple hundred miles on, and enough power.

 

Get a used one, even (or especially) one with cosmetic damage, so you won't sweat the inevitable parking lot drop.

 

Take the Basic and Experienced rider classes, and if you can afford it, a good track school. Put 5K-10K miles on the bike, spending as much of that time in conscious learning mode as you can. If you're still thrilled every time you swing a leg over, visit your dealer.

[Dave McReynolds]

I am 37 years old and have never ridden before but really do I want to!

 

Consider that you will probably drop the bike, several times, before you get the hang of it. That doesn't mean you will get hurt, but the bike will fall over when you're getting on it or off of it or learning to turn it at slow speeds, or it will stall when you're starting to make a turn from a stop and you'll drop it because you're leaned over at slow speeds. Heavy bikes are more prone to this than lighter ones, and tall bikes are more prone to this than shorter ones. BMW's are tall and moderately heavy bikes.

 

It takes some of the fun out of riding when you drop a new BMW and realize that you can either live with scratches on it or replace your fairing panel and/or sidecases for $300-$600 each.

 

I personally would rather get my bike-dropping out of the way on a beater.

 

BTW, I NEVER manage to buy what I really want the first time when I start a new hobby, which may not be your problem, but if it is, would be another reason to start with a beater.

[eddd]

I would agree with what has been said so far. My R1100RT is a great bike, but I can't image starting on it. You'll have some great low mileage choices in your area.

[codougd]

Hello everyone,

 

I am new to the forum, but boy am I glad I found it!

 

I am 37 years old and have never ridden before but really do I want to! And I have always admired (more like drooled over) the BMW bikes in the parking lot at work.

 

So over the course of the winter my plan is to read and study and ask questions. I will be taking the MSF class in the spring to get my certification, too. And then the trick is to actually get a bike.

 

My intent here is to enjoy the sport of riding, not go as fast as possible or impress people. I think of myself as fairly level headed and mature. I can ride a bicycle >wink<. But I don't have scads of money or space to have a stable of bikes.

 

So my question to you is: is it unreasonable to go for a BMW bike out of the gate or is it more of something one "graduates" to?

 

Thanks a lot! I look forward to your responses!

 

Greg

 

All the advice to start with something cheaper/smaller/lighter is absolutely on target.

 

The best way I know how to put this is: if you had a teenage son who just got his driver's license would you buy a V8 muscle car for him? I didn't think so

 

I started riding in 1969 on a Honda CL175. If I still had that bike I would still ride it. I returned to riding this year after many years without two wheeled transport. Even with my decades of experience, my R1200RT has exposed my rusty skills. I can't imagine starting out the RT.

[bmwk100]

I started from scratch and took the MSF beginner's course when I was 26. I'm 5'11" 190 lbs. and my MSF instructor helped me purchase a used 87' K100RS. It was a big bike but I had no problems with it.

 

I did not want to go through the hassle of buying and selling bikes. It worked out for me.

[codougd]

[...]

I did not want to go through the hassle of buying and selling bikes. It worked out for me.

Who said anything about selling? Just get a bigger garage.

[MotorinLA]

My intent here is to enjoy the sport of riding, not go as fast as possible or impress people. I think of myself as fairly level headed and mature. I can ride a bicycle >wink<. But I don't have scads of money or space to have a stable of bikes.

 

Regardless of your age and previous driving practices in a four wheeled vehicle, there is a very good chance that you will end up going faster and trying to impress people once you're on a motorcycle (based on personal experience, also see Walt Disney's "Motor Mania" and apply it to motorcycles). As such, it is always good to follow the advise already offered by many in this thread and start with something lighter and less powerful.

 

P.S. EVERYBODY drops their bike.

[bimmers]

I was 54 I guess when I took up riding after a 36 year rest from bikes. I did get a R1150R used with some warranty left on it and rode that for some 5,000 miles after which I upgraded to the 1200RT. Now I am looking for a smaller 650 or 450 that I can also take on unpaved surfaces. After 15 miles on dirtroads (got lost) with the 1200RT I do not wnat to do it again but i do want to be able to with something.

 

So get a 650GS or similar or even a 450 of some kind and then just keep it. THe cost of it equals what thte repair cost on the 1200RT would be, would you start with it.

I did drop mine though at parking lot turn and fortunately I could keep it halfway up with the Wunderlich engine protector bars aiding me. Got help to get it upright again.

A few minor scratches on the left saddlebag that I do live with.

 

get a small bike start as the others said with all training and then bam you ge ton the ultimate one....

 

god luck and be careful all cars in traffic are to be considered idiots, that way you protect yourself somewhat.

 

h

[HexHead]

Speaking as someone that's never owned a used bike, or dropped my first bike, either a used F650 if you want to follow everyone else's advice is a good choice. Lot's of people tour on them.

Otherwise an F800ST would be a perfect choice for you.

[Amac]

<i>So my question to you is: is it unreasonable to go for a BMW bike out of the gate</i><br><br>

 

Unless you're talking about the F650cs, yes. Jumping on a 1000cc+, 500 pound+ motorcycle as your first ride is a good way to hurt it, or you.

 

Check out one of these instead:

 

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/buell/buell-blast-13968.html

[jclevenger]

OK Greg...

I'll go ahead and be the dissenting opinion. First be warned, I have no where near the experience that the other riders here do. However, two months ago I was in the exact same place you were. Never rode a motorcycle before but wanted too, in my case I got a great deal from a relative and was unable to pass it up. I took the MSF (which was the best $25 I have ever spent) bought a 2000 R1100RT and have loved it.

 

Disclaimers: I have dropped it, however the situation in which I dropped it could have happened just as easily on any other bike or if I had been riding for years. Just this past weekend I watched a friend who had been riding for 20 years drop his Honda VFR at 0 mpg when his rear wheel found fine gravel that had been color matched to the pavement. Engine guards are your friend. Of course I am aware that it is much easier for a new rider to do this than an experieced rider. Point is you could get a small bike and ride it for five years before buying a BMW and sitll drop your new BMW the first day you ride it.

 

IMHO the big key will be your level of awareness to the issues of whatever particular bike you choose. If it is a bigger bike be aware of that and it's impacts. You will be a new rider, when riding with friends don't worry about letting them wait a few minutes at the next turn off if you don't feel comfortable taking on the twisties as aggresivly as they do, they will understand.

 

Long story short, if your heart is set on a BMW then go for it, but be very careful, know and respect your limitations and ask those you ride with to critique when necessary. If your heart is set on it a 250cc Rebel will only disappoint you which will detract from the enjoyment you get from riding. If it isn't a BMW that you are set on, go ahead and look around, sit on a bunch of bikes, talk to lots of owners and see what is going to work for you.

 

Ok...let my beat down commence

 

Russell...I'm up to 2,500 miles now...I know still not anything for some, but another nice milestone for me!

[Francois_Dumas]

The 'logical' reply from THIS side of the pond would be: learn to ride first, THEN worry about a bike.... But I fully realize that's not the logical order of things in the US.

So my second best answer would be: yes, you can ride a BMW as a newbie, but no, it is not per sé a good bike for a total beginner. It will take part of your much needed attention off the riding and onto balancing the bike and worrying about the cost of dropping it. YMMV.

 

Francois

[Theophilus]

Greg,

 

The most important thing I have to say is: Do not even think of riding without a helmet. Ever. Yes, I know you didn't ask about that, and if you are as self-desribed, you probably will follow this anyway. Nevertheless, I think it is the most important piece of advice that could be given to you at this point.

 

Other than that, I have a story much the same as Jason. Bought a 2000 RT last October in very fine condition after having taken the MSF course. Dropped it in the driveway. Dropped it in a gravel parking lot due to a poor/inexperienced parking job that left me uphill of a split rail fence right in front of me Dropped it in my neighborhood at a stop sign, maybe twice. I am 5' - 9" 185lb and can (barely) flatfoot on it. I have put about 6,000 miles on it in just under a year, including a nice round trip to Big Bend and the Davis Mountains this spring.

 

It is a LOT of bike to begin on. However, the only thing (besides the helmet) that I would say is non-negotiable is to avoid buying a new bike. Before finding the used RT, I was well down the road of falling in love with a brand new 1200R (also in black). Fortunately, I rightly chose otherwise.

 

Keep in mind that the heavier bike may reduce your confidence and may increase the chances of having an accident, so I will not necessarily defend my course of action; I am just sharing it as a data point. I would not do it differently if I had it to do over. Now if there had been a Y2k used version of the F800 available...

[bakerzdosen]

Well, I'll just relate my story, and you can take from it what you will:

 

In June of 2006 (I was 34, 6'1", and in reasonably good shape), I needed something (I won't get into too many details) and I stumbled upon motorcycling. The last bike I'd ridden was a friend's dirt bike when I was 12 or younger, so I had basically zero experience with motorcycles. I really wanted a BMW (specifically an R1200st) for reasons that involved marketing, my overall opinion of BMW, and it just seemed right. However, everyone on internet forums (such as this one) said "get a small starter bike". So I did.

 

At the end of June as I was starting my MSF class with a friend, my new-to-me 2003 BMW F650csa arrived. I rode it maybe three times before the end of the class, and each time I was VERY nervous (and not endorsed), so the rides were not much more than around the block. On June 30th, I got my M endorsement on my license and away I went...

 

I rode a little over 1000 miles that next week or so. However, I noticed that the tires on the bike were pretty much shot. So, not knowing there were other options, I rode to the BMW dealer trying to get tires for the thing. They didn't have any and were doubtful that they could get any in a reasonable time frame. However, while I was there pondering the bike trip I wanted to take, I ended up looking at one of the r12st's they had.

 

To shorten the story, the dealer offered me more for trading my my f650 than I'd just payed for it a two weeks earlier. I said "I just started riding [cough] this season [cough]" He replied "yeah, but you've probably learned everything you're gonna learn from this bike and if it's not the bike you're gonna keep, then you need to be learning on the bike you're gonna keep." It's not entirely sound logic, but it was enough to push me over the edge. So, I owned the f650cs for probably 3 weeks tops. (And the dealer still owns it today. )

 

Since then, I've ridden about 19,000 miles on my ST. Yeah, it's big. Yeah, it's got more power than I usually need (though I do crave a tad bit more now). Yeah, I was hanging with people who would probably prefer to not be named all through Sweeper Madness in Torrey just 3 months after getting on my first street bike (chalk that one up in the "in retrospect, maybe I shouldn't have done that" category). And yeah, I did drop/scratch the thing once because I was tired and didn't put the kickstand down all the way at a diner somewhere in central Oregon, but that's the worst of it.

 

Regardless, this path has worked for me. I'm not saying it's normal - because apparently it's not. Most people don't (to quote Jamie last year) "jump in with both feet" like I did. I mean, it does seem a little crazy that just two months from my MSF class, I rode solo across Nevada (again) to N. California at Cheechoo's place to do my 6k service only to ride back to Utah the next morning.

 

I also don't drive cars like most people either. I tend to be hyper-aware of my surroundings when driving, so making the transition to motorcycles wasn't a big jump for me. I've been accused many times of treating driving as a sport because of that. I've been treating motorcycling with much more respect than that however.

 

I've poured over "stupid newbie accidents" and read Proficient Motorcycling. I've read most of the posts in Ride Well from the past two years. And I've been very cognizant of the fact that I'm just leaving one of the groups most likely to have an accident according to the Hurt report (and I have the 3 year group in my sights).

 

Now, the ST isn't an RT or GS, so it's a bit easier to manage, but not much. It's still a heavy bike. It was MUCH easier to "man handle" the f650. But I'm not as "humbled" by the size of the ST any more. Perhaps that's bad, but I know a lot more now than I used to. I also know that I don't know it all. Not even close.

 

If you're looking for a "yes" answer, I guess my story could be it. Maybe I'm lucky, but I made it through it (so far - I know I've got a long way to go), so I know it's possible. Do I regret it? Well, I probably regret buying new when I consider that the week after I bought mine, a used ST popped up on eBay for basically what I paid for mine minus my trade-in. But I'm very happy with the bike over all. However, I'm MUCH happier with the experiences I've had since then - most of which I owe to this board... but that's another topic.

 

With the right attitude I think it's possible, but there are many more stories out there of early failures than successes. I'd recommend not doing what I did, unless you're really going to immerse yourself in it and learn how to do it properly. I realize that I (like all of us actually) am only one key mistake away from moving into a "failure" category. I've just tried to do everything in my power to minimize the risk of making a mistake like that.

[11101110]

My first bike was/is an 1150RTP. It was big at first but I took it very slow. A few days of clutch practice on my inclined driveway. Two months just riding around in my neighborhood. then just to work and back. MSF ERC. I have droped it a few times (6 or 7) but all have been very slow drops when I was turning and grabbed the Evo brake lever. Or thought the kickstand was down (2 of the total)I have since learned not to grab the brake while turning and to put the kickstand down.

 

I don't regret getting it.

[Dances_With_Wiener_Dogs]

Unless you consider a 650 or the 800s to be sport tourers, then NO, don't get one of these right out of the gate.

[Ben_Ricci]

There isn't a silver bullet to learning to ride well or safe. Bike size is only one factor. Your mentality toward riding and the bike will be a major key to your success no matter what you chose for a first bike. I made the traditional 400-600-800-1200 transition. I never dropped a bike until I purchased my BMW(1200). I'm only one data point in a large sample, but my experience defies the logic that says evolve and you'll minimize the opportunity to drop a bike or hurt yourself--there are far too many variables with no correlation to motor/bike size that present challenges to a rider's safety. I've been riding on and off for 25 years. An F800 would be an excellent first bike, albeit an expensive choice. You could buy two very respectable Hondas/Suzukis for the price of an F800ST. No matter what you decide, go slow, educate yourself to the greatest extent possible, and be careful.

 

Pick the bike you like and good luck.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

So my question to you is: is it unreasonable to go for a BMW bike out of the gate or is it more of something one "graduates" to?

 

Well by now, you're seeing the prevailing pattern of advice. I'll add my own, a repost of some advice I offered a few weeks ago to someone who was in a situation similar to yours:

 

=================

My RT was the first bike I owned, but it was not the first bike I had ridden. Back in the early 90's I racked up maybe a thousand miles on my dad's Honda 450, so I had "some" motorcycle riding experience under my belt. I also had a long history of fast-and-furious mountain bike riding (both in and out of town), so I had developed a great sense of balance and a solid visceral understanding of two-wheeled vehicle dynamics, as well as a healthy awareness of other traffic on the road. After I bought the RT, I never felt like I was in over my head. Early on I did set it down gently once during a tight U-turn (tried to start out in third gear ), but no damage.

 

You've said this will be the first bike you've bought. I'm wondering how much riding experience in general you have, either on bicycles or motorcycles. If you've got virtually none - for example, if you only recently got the cycle endorsement on your license - I would suggest practicing for a while on something smaller and cheaper, maybe a severely used/dropped Ninja250; they're only $3K new, you can probably get a seriously beat-up one for less than $1K and sell it a year later for the same amount.

 

As it is, it sounds like you're alread committed to buying the RT. Once you start riding it, do your best to be brutally honest with yourself in assessing whether a tipover or a serious crash might be a realistic possibility; if so, you may want to park it for a year and go grab that used Ninja.

======================

 

 

So there ya go. It bears repeating: when you're making your decision on what your first bike should be, be brutally honest in your self-assessment; your own life is at stake here, not to mention the value of the motorcycle itself.

[Bud]

So my question to you is: is it unreasonable to go for a BMW bike out of the gate or is it more of something one "graduates" to?

 

Well by now, you're seeing the prevailing pattern of advice. I'll add my own, a repost of some advice I offered a few weeks ago to someone who was in a situation similar to yours:

 

=================

My RT was the first bike I owned, but it was not the first bike I had ridden. Back in the early 90's I racked up maybe a thousand miles on my dad's Honda 450, so I had "some" motorcycle riding experience under my belt. I also had a long history of fast-and-furious mountain bike riding (both in and out of town), so I had developed a great sense of balance and a solid visceral understanding of two-wheeled vehicle dynamics, as well as a healthy awareness of other traffic on the road. After I bought the RT, I never felt like I was in over my head. Early on I did set it down gently once during a tight U-turn (tried to start out in third gear ), but no damage.

 

You've said this will be the first bike you've bought. I'm wondering how much riding experience in general you have, either on bicycles or motorcycles. If you've got virtually none - for example, if you only recently got the cycle endorsement on your license - I would suggest practicing for a while on something smaller and cheaper, maybe a severely used/dropped Ninja250; they're only $3K new, you can probably get a seriously beat-up one for less than $1K and sell it a year later for the same amount.

 

As it is, it sounds like you're alread committed to buying the RT. Once you start riding it, do your best to be brutally honest with yourself in assessing whether a tipover or a serious crash might be a realistic possibility; if so, you may want to park it for a year and go grab that used Ninja.

======================

 

 

So there ya go. It bears repeating: when you're making your decision on what your first bike should be, be brutally honest in your self-assessment; your own life is at stake here, not to mention the value of the motorcycle itself.

 

Well I'm not too sure about his new name: "Albert_Potato", but his advice is spot on.

 

The statistics show you are the most dangerous to yourself the first 6 months you ride. I was. However, just because you pass the 6 months mark you are not proficient (really a life long endeavor) and may, due to your new confidence, really be more dangerous as a little experience is a dangerous thing.

 

Cheap, used UJM (universal Japanese motorcycles) will usually return their cost when resold.

 

At any rate, let us know what you do and how it turns out.

[Mike]

Greg--

 

I'd agree with the majority opinion. Generally speaking, a new rider is better off on an unfaired (or half-faired) bike that's somewhat on the light side and which can take the occasional drop without much damage.

 

Anything over 350-400 cc. was considered a fairly large bike when I started riding. That's changed considerably, but I'd strongly urge you to stick to something no larger than 600 - 650 cc. There are a lot of options in that range, and you should be able to find something to fit you.

 

It is indeed a rare person who can pick up riding skills well on a large bike. The added trickiness of dealing with the extra mass, particularly at low speeds, can be a distraction that can lead to problems. One of the things I'd urge you to consider is your inherent mental and physical skills. Are you good at multitasking? Do you tend to be somewhat coordinated and athletic, or are you more of a couch potato? On any motorcycle, but particularly anything in the displacement range you're considering, things happen very fast . . . even the relatively sedate RT accelerates much quicker than 99% of the cars on the road. You need to consider carefully your inherent skill set before you make a decision.

 

One thing I'd urge is to look seriously at torquey singles and twins. These bikes generally have broad power bands, as opposed to many four-cylinder bikes, which exhibit relatively little power at low rpm's, but really start screaming when they hit a certain point higher in the rev range. As a general rule, a bike with a flat, predictable torque curve is going to be a better choice. Again, it's a matter of selecting a bike that will allow you to focus on learning the basics of riding. High levels of weight or power can be managed by a more experienced rider, but they can make things much more difficult for a novice.

[Uhlmann]

Wow, guys. I am overwhelmed at your outpouring. I am convinced that I could never get this much advice in any other single place in such a short amount of time.

 

Thank you for all of your stories. I appreciate the time and honesty you have put into your responses.

 

As I said in my first post, I am going to continue to collect information and try to learn as much as I can (i.e. without being in the seat) over the winter. I have a feeling I will get a good vibe on what to do when I take the MSF course.

 

In the meantime, I do intend to get a good helmet. Thanks for the advice on that one. A couple guys at work have stressed that point as well.

 

Thanks again! I hope you will be willing to humor more "newbie questions" as I come up with them.

 

Greg Uhlmann

[jbim]

Those who tell you buy a used lighter bike are correct. It is logically the only way to go for all the above mentioned reasons. However, this is not what I did after a 25-year gap. I went for a new 2005 Honda ST1300 ABS. I wanted a sport touring bike with ABS. I bought the Honda instead of the BMW RT for sentimental reasons. The bike was heavy but I feel it was a good starter bike because it forced me to be fully aware and committed. I did drop it once at a stop light once I was at a full stop. It was due to a steep change of grade on the right side. No damage other than a scuff on the safety wing the ST has. Then I test rode an RT and had to get the BMW. Finally I went for the GS and just love it. This is a light bike although some say it is a tad top heavy. The challenge is the height for some. As someone else says, if you commit yourself to the ride, be 100% aware and safe, I think it is OK to follow your heart. However, the correct thing to do is to follow your brain, right?

[pwhite]

Every one of us has been in a similar situation when we first started riding. We all wanted a bike that was more than what we should have had. Some bought that bike, and others bought something different. Many of the posts talked about dropping the bike in various situations. Thats certainly a consideration however its going to seem pretty trivial compared to the first time you enter a turn a little too fast and start to drift across the center line or when the numb n*ts in the cage turns left in front of you with little room to react. The real reason to start smaller than maybe you want is to begin the process of understanding what riding is all about. You might even decide that riding scares the stuff out of you. Or maybe you will decide (like me) that riding in the city is no fun but there is nothing like the open road where you are really part of the world around you.

 

Which ever way you decide always remember that All The Gear All The Time is the only way to travel. There are really only two types of riders: Those that have gone down & those that will go down. Stuff happens very fast, at any speed. I'm recovering nicely from a recent get off (nothing broken and no blood) thanks to the proper gear. My RT was totalled but I walked away. If it seems like I am trying to scare you, I am. Riding is serious business and it takes total focus. If you really like riding, you will end up owning many different bikes of varying sizes and shapes. Don't think that there is only one bike for you because there is no way for you to know until you have tried a few different types, (hmmm, sounds kind if like the speech I gave my son with his first girlfriend)

 

What ever you do, ride safe.

[eddd]

... (hmmm, sounds kind if like the speech I gave my son with his first girlfriend)

 

What ever you do, ride safe.

 

Sorry, I couldn't pass on this softball.