Dry Town Crew Palomar Mountain

[BrianT]

There's been a few more fatalities on Palomar Mountain and according to this news article they're looking at trying to slow people down. At least they don't just make it a motorcycle issue as they talk about cars racing up the mountain as well. Read this Sign On Sandiego for further.

[90%angel]

Good that they also implicate cars in the article, but after reading a number of the comments after the report, apparently they grossly misreported the accident as being the rider's fault, when in fact, the truck (allegedly...I wasn't there) crossed the line and hit her. Either way,

[ShovelStrokeEd]

As I read the article and the following comments, I got the impression that she rounded a blind corner and hit the truck, which was making an illegal U-turn across a double yellow line. She may, indeed, have crossed the double yellow in an effort to avoid the truck. Truck driver was certainly at fault in the incident but, do remember that if you are riding so fast that you can't stop within your sight line, you are going too fast.

 

My preference is to ride just a bit slower when the road is full of blind turns, even if I know it well. Yeah, it detracts from the "rush" a bit but, I would love to continue to ride into my 80's, not that far away in my case. To do that, I have to survive.

[Les is more]

Not that it makes a whit of difference to the poor woman but according to the authorities the truck was making a legal maneuver, repeated many times by the water tankers that go up and down the mountain to get Palomar Mountain Spring water for bottling--a smart maneuver?? That's another question.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Legal???

 

I'm not all that familiar with the Cali vehicle code but isn't that a 2 lane road marked double yellow? Didn't think it was legal to cross that except at an intersection where the line is broken. Too bad you can't be cited for driving while stupid!! That it is common practice up there just speaks to me of poor enforcement.

 

BTW, I do feel sorry for the poor woman and, more importantly, for her survivors. I certainly wouldn't wish that sorrow on my friends and family, no matter I went out doing something I love.

[BrianT]

Legal???

 

I'm not all that familiar with the Cali vehicle code but isn't that a 2 lane road marked double yellow? Didn't think it was legal to cross that except at an intersection where the line is broken. Too bad you can't be cited for driving while stupid!! That it is common practice up there just speaks to me of poor enforcement.

In CA you can turn left over a solid double yellow line into or out of a driveway or street. You just can't drive left of it to pass someone. If it's two sets of solid double yellow lines then you can't cross it at all as that's the same thing as a concrete divider here.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Brian, wouldn't that make the U-turn illegal? The driver of the truck did not enter either a driveway or an intersection and, IMHO, it would be a real stretch to see going in the other direction on the same road the same as entering another road.

[BrianT]

Brian, wouldn't that make the U-turn illegal? The driver of the truck did not enter either a driveway or an intersection and, IMHO, it would be a real stretch to see going in the other direction on the same road the same as entering another road.

I used to think so and either they've changed it or I just never noticed this before. See below for a quote of the section that seems to now allow Uturn's over solid double yellow lines as long as you follow the rules for Uturn's. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but this seems to make double yellow lines simply a no passing zone as anything else seems to go according to this section.

 

21460. (a) When double parallel solid lines are in place, no person

driving a vehicle shall drive to the left thereof, except as

permitted in this section.

(b) When the double parallel lines, one of which is broken, are in

place, no person driving a vehicle shall drive to the left thereof,

except as follows:

(1) That the driver on that side of the roadway in which the

broken line is in place may cross over the double line or drive to

the left thereof when overtaking or passing other vehicles.

(2) As provided in Section 21460.5.

© Either of the markings as specified in subdivision (a) or (b)

does not prohibit a driver from crossing the marking when (1) turning

to the left at any intersection or into or out of a driveway or

private road, or (2) making a U-turn under the rules governing that

turn, and either of the markings shall be disregarded when authorized

signs have been erected designating offcenter traffic lanes as

permitted under Section 21657.

(d) Raised pavement markers may be used to simulate painted lines

described in this section when the markers are placed in accordance

with standards established by the Department of Transportation.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Damn!! That is one stupid law. One would hope that the requirements for a U-turn, as defined by law, would include prohibition from doing it unless sight lines are available to insure no oncoming traffic and a requirement to yield right of way to any such traffic. Probably too much to hope for. A dumbass law like the one cited just makes my blood boil. The fact that a woman died as a result of a stupid driver aside. Maybe there is a case for criminal negligence?

[BrianT]

Damn!! That is one stupid law. One would hope that the requirements for a U-turn, as defined by law, would include prohibition from doing it unless sight lines are available to insure no oncoming traffic and a requirement to yield right of way to any such traffic. Probably too much to hope for. A dumbass law like the one cited just makes my blood boil. The fact that a woman died as a result of a stupid driver aside. Maybe there is a case for criminal negligence?

Just need 200 feet of unobstructed view. See below for the Vehicle Code section

 

22105. No person shall make a U-turn upon any highway where the

driver of such vehicle does not have an unobstructed view for 200

feet in both directions along the highway and of any traffic thereon.

[Lineareagle]

Well lets assume a sedate 40 mph and you come around a corner and 200 feet away a truck is making a U turn, quite legally.

You have just over 3.5 seconds to recognize, get upright and stop your bike.

 

Hmm give it a try, I think you are dead.

[RETII]

Kudos to Brian for taking the time to type out all that VC double speak. If one was to take anything positive in the loss of this single rider from my point of view it would be that alot of other riders took a second look and thought about all the aspects of this tragedy. Regardless of who's ultimately found at fault we all need to bring our "A" game to riding in areas that have limited visability and expect the unexpected. Now if I would only do as I say. Sadly contemplating.....

[James Clark]

Follow up.

[BrianT]

Follow up.

Thanks for the update.

[MotorinLA]

Well lets assume a sedate 40 mph and you come around a corner and 200 feet away a truck is making a U turn, quite legally.

You have just over 3.5 seconds to recognize, get upright and stop your bike.

 

Hmm give it a try, I think you are dead.

 

40 mph = approx. 60 ft/sec

 

perception time + reaction time = approx. 1.5 sec

 

distance traveled = 90 feet

 

leaving 110 feet for braking

 

optimal braking distance for 40 mph = 84/89 feet (non-abs vs abs)

 

200 feet = survivable at 40 mph