neutral safety switch

[Glacier_g_rt]

Last weekend I noticed my R11RT wouldn't start while in gear and pulling in the clutch (kickstand up). Also, the green neutral light doesn't always come on when I know it's in neutral, like when trying to start it in the morning for riding to work. Has anyone had this problem and would you tell me what it needs to fix it? I don't want to ride the bike until this is corrected or know more about it (glad for my backup K bike). All feedback is greatly appreciated.

Dave

[flars]

Pretty common occurence on the 1100.

1. Neutral light doesn't come on: the neutral switch on back of transmission is notorious for getting 'lazy'. Nothing to do except replace it if you ever have to do any clutch/tranny work since it is a sealed unit, and is in an awkward place. Most of us live with it for a long time before getting it fixed. Mine has been lazy for 80,000 miles.

2. Pulling in the clutch didn't allow you to start without the neutral light - Clutch interlock switch up at the clutch lever is bad. Replace it, it's pretty easy and cheap to do. You have to cut the wire up near the clutch lever assembly to get it out, since you can't get hold of it otherwise. You can then slide a deep socket down over the wire to unscrew the switch. Then unplug the other end from the harness, and use needle nose pliers to put the new one back into the clutch lever assembly - it goes back in easier than it comes out. BTW - some people just cut the wires and twist them together, thereby bypassing the interlock. Some people say you are risking your life, your family, your wealth if you do this since the bike could then start in gear.

[Glacier_g_rt]

Thanks! Guess I could try cutting and twisting to see if it corrects the problem and then order a new one to install. Big help and appreciated.

Dave

[SageRider]

1. Neutral light doesn't come on: the neutral switch on back of transmission is notorious for getting 'lazy'. Nothing to do except replace it if you ever have to do any clutch/tranny work since it is a sealed unit, and is in an awkward place.

Actually, the neutral switch is not a sealed unit which is why the problem develops in the first place. It only requires a few ohms of resistance in the switch to cause the "lazy" problem. A plastic safe contact cleaner will help if you can get to the switch to spray it, but is at best only a short term solution. As stated above, most people just live with it until necessary repairs require removal of the rear swingarm.

 

 

 

 

 

[Glacier_g_rt]

Nice photos, thank you.

[Jim Moore]

As my ex-wife (the veterinarian) used to say, "A chance to cut is a chance to cure." Cut it.

[DavidEBSmith]

Last Sunday I saw a rider just barely miss running a very pretty Bimota into a barrier and dumping it when he hit the starter button with the bike in gear and it leapt forward 2 of the 3 feet between the front wheel and the wall and almost toppled over. But I know nobody on this DB would ever be stupid enough to start a bike in gear or ride off with the sidestand down, so it's perfectly safe to cut the wires to the safety switches.

[yechave]

Glad to see this post. I just got a 99, have the same problem. I have just under 5 weeks warranty, so it will be interesting to see just how honorable they are with this problem. I watch now to see the shift index is at "0", turn the bike off with the switch and then use the side stand.

 

I had been just going to neutral, then using the side stand, until it kicked into gear while still running. That will hopefully never happen again.

[Jim Moore]

EB, you're 100% correct. I just can't tolerate the thought of replacing one unreliable switch with another unreliable switch.

[Glacier_g_rt]

I was able to pull back the boot on the lead to this switch and wrap a bare copper wire around the two conducters where they were soldered to the failed switch and then push the boot back on. Easy fix. I have ordered the switch, cost was $20 and will put it on before long as it appears to be painless. The original switch failed at 11 years of age and 88k miles so it will probably be the last one I have to replace. I have been in the habit of putting the transmission in neutral before turning off the bike. The only times I needed the interlock to work properly was when it stalled in slow traffic or starting off on an uphill grade (which is rare but happened on a 200 mile ride last weekend). Guess I'm trying to say that IMO it's your call on wether you replace the switch or not, just watch out for "Murphy", he's always hanging around.

[Jitryd]

I just had mine fail on my 2000 1100RT at 48K miles. I'd like to use the copper wire solution as a temp fix till I can get it replaced. Anyone have a picture of which leads we're talking about?

[Glacier_g_rt]

On the left handlebar there are two cables (clutch and choke), one harness lead (windshield raise and lower, turn signal, horn, and high low beam), and one small diameter lead tied to the bottom of the handle bar which is for the clutch interlock switch. Not the easiest to see but accessable enough for using a small screw driver to push the boot back just enough to wrap the copper wire around the two switch wires bypassing the switch.

[milesandmiles]

Mines intermittent. Isn't there a way to seal the new after replacement, gooped up with RTV or something? Meantime I just live with it.

[flars]

The part that fails is the switch itself, which is sealed. Yes, I know the whole thing isn't sealed, but the part that fails is the actual switch itself, not the activating mechanism. So no - you can't keep it from failing eventually.

[SageRider]

The part that fails is the switch itself, which is sealed. Yes, I know the whole thing isn't sealed, but the part that fails is the actual switch itself, not the activating mechanism. So no - you can't keep it from failing eventually.

In addition to the switch assembly not being sealed, the actual switch itself is NOT sealed. The switch is failing due to contamination. In my tests, it required just a couple of Ohms resistance when the switch was closed for the circuit to malfunction. Contact cleaner can penetrate the switch and help (verified!), but by the time one can get to the switch to spray the cleaner, one might as well replace the switch.

[Stan Walker]

The switch is failing due to contamination.

 

Perhaps. But on my R1100RT at 70,000 miles there was no sign of external contaminaton on the switch. I suspect that the failure was caused either by arcing of the contacts or contamination by lubricants used within the switch.

 

I do wish I had cut it open to examine the insides of the switch. I wonder if I kept it...........

 

Stan

[Clive Liddell]

When my clutch switch failed I carefully opened it and was impressed with the design including excellent sealing of the switch mechanism (a sort of rubber concertia arrangement internally at the moving end). I found myself wondering how they could produce this tiny work of art for the price they ask!

 

BTW it was failure of the "main" 2mm dia coil return spring that seemed to have had metal fatigue not corrosion damage.

 

some pics:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/clivesnikpics/1293013288/

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/clivesnikpics/1305261596/

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/clivesnikpics/1305261570/

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/clivesnikpics/1276036335/

[Stan Walker]

When my clutch switch failed I carefully opened it and was impressed with the design including excellent sealing of the switch mechanism (a sort of rubber concertia arrangement internally at the moving end).

 

<sigh> We seem to be talking about two different switches in this thread. I think we started the thread talking about the Neutral switch but have recently changed to the clutch interlock switch.

 

All my comments have been in regards to the Neutral switch located down on the R1100RT transmission. I have yet to have a clutch interlock switch fail on either RT bike.

 

Stan

[SageRider]

The switch is failing due to contamination.

 

Perhaps. But on my R1100RT at 70,000 miles there was no sign of external contaminaton on the switch. I suspect that the failure was caused either by arcing of the contacts or contamination by lubricants used within the switch.

 

I do wish I had cut it open to examine the insides of the switch. I wonder if I kept it...........

 

Stan

 

On a non-sealed neutral switch that is constantly going through hot cold cycles, there will be condensation inside the switch. In addition, water spray from riding under wet conditions can also penetrate the switch without giving any sign of external residue.

[Stan Walker]

On a non-sealed neutral switch that is constantly going through hot cold cycles, there will be condensation inside the switch. In addition, water spray from riding under wet conditions can also penetrate the switch without giving any sign of external residue.

 

No question that the switch is not up to the task assigned. Sadly, I just replaced it with another just like it. So far so good, but I have no doubt that in a few years it will fail just like the original.

 

You are correct that it does get heat cycled. And that could draw in moisture leading to corroded contacts. But heat cycling could also cause outgassing from lubricants, plastics, etc., leading to the much the same thing.

 

If I ever find my old one again I'll cut it open and see if I, or some of my engineering friends at work, can tell why it failed.

 

More important is to decide on how to prevent it from happening again. Maybe just look for a better switch?

 

Stan

[notacop]

My RT-P neutral switch is flaky too but the bike starts with the clutch in. I don't like all the safety features on the new bikes. It removes the Darwin factor and there are too many Dodo's out there not realizing they should be extinct.

I did watch by buddies wiring start to go up in smoke from the neut switch while we were trouble shooting. Ended up jumpering the switch out at the first connector in the line. Right under the seat on the 95RS. Very convenient!

[Dshel]

Hello Clive - is it difficult to remove the old one ? Do you need the cut-off socket or would a good pair of needle nosed plier do well ? I understand the connector is close the front of the glove box, yes ?

[breyfogle]

I don't like all the safety features on the new bikes. It removes the Darwin factor and there are too many Dodo's out there not realizing they should be extinct.