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National Helmet Laws. Comming soon?


Jones

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My knee jerk reaction is to say I support this. I always wear one so I don't really care about the effect on me. I've never had a crash but my full face helmet has saved me from some UFOs that hit it like a gunshot. I mean hit hard too. Scared the crap outta me.

 

I wondered when the Feds would start moving this way.

 

When the Feds force all the driving laws I will comply. I usually do. My government is just trying to keep me safe and what a warm fuzzy that is.

 

Driving cages obviously is a factor in the development of homicidal psychosis. They are bad. They have road-rage. I would vote for helmet laws in cars too. Reduce the head injury cost in them things also.

 

I would like stricter DUI laws which are actually enforced. BAC of .02 across the board just like CDLs would be good with no diversion (a joke program) and mandatory 10 days jail for strike #1. Forget the felony for strike #2 but they really need their wings clipped for about six months and 30 days in the hard-bar hotel. #3 and you are out. Felony/year in prison/grounded for life. This is a serious problem and people get hurt. If you collect 3 DUIs, you need help, not a motorcycle. Keep going to meetings, you'll get better. I believe the vast majority of DUIs are motorcycle killing cagers anyhow.

 

Once they require ALL the cool new laws for my bike, I must insist on a turn-off key for the passenger air-bag. My wife just aint stacked right for unassisted flight.

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When the Feds force all the driving laws I will comply. I usually do. My government is just trying to keep me safe and what a warm fuzzy that is.
Just keep on giving up your freedoms for warm fuzzies and see where that will lead you. A warm fuzzy cocoon where you won't be allowed to do anything not expressly desired by the government.

 

Edit: and btw I'm a 99.9% helmet wearer, still don't want a law.

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"you won't be allowed to do anything not expressly desired by the government."

 

I'm already there dude. Just a citizen of the Empire trying to get along.

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sounds like good idea. it's guys like you and me who foot the bill for these morons who end up vegtables because they want to look cool with a beanie helmet or no helmet

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sounds like good idea. it's guys like you and me who foot the bill for these morons who end up vegtables because they want to look cool with a beanie helmet or no helmet
It's car drivers who have to foot the bill for morons that want to look cool by riding motorcycles.
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russell_bynum
sounds like good idea. it's guys like you and me who foot the bill for these morons who end up vegtables because they want to look cool with a beanie helmet or no helmet
It's car drivers who have to foot the bill for morons that want to look cool by riding motorcycles.

 

Bob,

Please don't confuse this argument by using logic and facts.

 

Thanks.

 

grin.gif

 

 

 

For the record, I'm 100% totally opposed to helmet laws, National or otherwise.

 

Except for the short ride from one end of Torrey to another at 30mph, you are exceedingly unlikely to ever find me wearing less that total head-to-toe protective gear specific to whatever type of riding I'm doing (track, street, dirt). I've got more money tied up in gear than I have in my DRZ. I'm a HUGE proponent of protective gear and it's saved me several times. I'm the guy sending the new riders that I work with links to various gear manufacturers' websites and showing them the pictures of my torn up gear following my accidents...which I walked away from uninjured.

 

But I don't want/need Uncle Sam telling me what I have to wear.

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For the record, I'm 100% totally opposed to helmet laws, National or otherwise.

 

Except for the short ride from one end of Torrey to another at 30mph, you are exceedingly unlikely to ever find me wearing less that total head-to-toe protective gear specific to whatever type of riding I'm doing (track, street, dirt). I've got more money tied up in gear than I have in my DRZ. I'm a HUGE proponent of protective gear and it's saved me several times. I'm the guy sending the new riders that I work with links to various gear manufacturers' websites and showing them the pictures of my torn up gear following my accidents...which I walked away from uninjured.

 

But I don't want/need Uncle Sam telling me what I have to wear.

 

I have to say I'm with you 100% on those thoughts. My personal choice is also 100% gear all the time, and I will encourage the same to anyone who is willing to listen. On the other hand......It is MY choice, and I don't want anyone telling me what I HAVE to wear.

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My knee jerk reaction is to say I support this. I always wear one so I don't really care about the effect on me. I've never had a crash but my full face helmet has saved me from some UFOs that hit it like a gunshot. I mean hit hard too. Scared the crap outta me.

 

I wondered when the Feds would start moving this way.

 

When the Feds force all the driving laws I will comply. I usually do. My government is just trying to keep me safe and what a warm fuzzy that is.

 

Driving cages obviously is a factor in the development of homicidal psychosis. They are bad. They have road-rage. I would vote for helmet laws in cars too. Reduce the head injury cost in them things also.

 

I would like stricter DUI laws which are actually enforced. BAC of .02 across the board just like CDLs would be good with no diversion (a joke program) and mandatory 10 days jail for strike #1. Forget the felony for strike #2 but they really need their wings clipped for about six months and 30 days in the hard-bar hotel. #3 and you are out. Felony/year in prison/grounded for life. This is a serious problem and people get hurt. If you collect 3 DUIs, you need help, not a motorcycle. Keep going to meetings, you'll get better. I believe the vast majority of DUIs are motorcycle killing cagers anyhow.

 

Once they require ALL the cool new laws for my bike, I must insist on a turn-off key for the passenger air-bag. My wife just aint stacked right for unassisted flight.

 

I love a good rant. thumbsup.gif

 

(Rant on)

 

I like your idea on DUI's as well. This nation has an alcohol problem. Society, based on the laws and actions of local courts, doesn't take drunk driving seriously.

 

I'm more worried about the loss of personal liberty by government spying on innocent citizens, surveillance cameras running 24/7 in many major cities, businesses willing to turn over data to the government just because they want it, the impotency of the majority of congress to stop further governmental intrusion into our lives under the guise of "National Security" or the "War on Terror".

 

When your last freedom is gone, it won't be because of a helmet law. It will be because they were all taken away to protect you from the terrorist.

 

(Rant off)

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We should stop motorcycles and cars from speeding. Seizures if necessary. Then our roads will be safe and we wouldn't need helmets.

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I'd support a national helmet regulation similar to the national seatbelt regulation. There's no federal statute, but the states should enact helmet laws it if they want federal funds. If they don't want helmet laws, that's fine. People can call that nanny-statism, and impinging on "personal freedom" but seat belts save lives, and so do helmets.

 

Some feel that operating a motor vehicle on regulated public roads should be a constitutional right, like free speech or free assembly, but of course it is not. Such notions demean and trivialize our real freedoms. Driving is an earned privilege. You have to be licensed, insured and pass a minimal test of competency or you can't get behind the wheel on public roads. You cannot be impaired, you have to have good eyesight, be minimally literate, etc. And you can't drive just any motorized contraption that you build in your garage. Motor vehicles have hundreds of standards for required safety equipment -- lights, signals, glass, pollution control, etc. Is that an assault on freedom? There are federal standards for occupant restraint. Seat belts are required equipment, and while there are some whiners who claim they are "uncomfortable" or who won't wear them for "libertarian" reasons, they are becoming fewer (maybe they're dying off). Motorcycles require certain federal safety features like lighting, signals, etc., and it is very reasonable to require use of a helmet (manufactured to certain standards) when riding on public roads.

 

Off-road is a completely different story. Build your own contraption. Ride naked. On-road with other motorists -- accept being regulated. My 2c.

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Lets_Play_Two
I'd support a national helmet regulation similar to the national seatbelt regulation. There's no federal statute, but the states should enact helmet laws it if they want federal funds. If they don't want helmet laws, that's fine. People can call that nanny-statism, and impinging on "personal freedom" but seat belts save lives, and so do helmets.

 

Some feel that operating a motor vehicle on regulated public roads should be a constitutional right, like free speech or free assembly, but of course it is not. Such notions demean and trivialize our real freedoms. Driving is an earned privilege. You have to be licensed, insured and pass a minimal test of competency or you can't get behind the wheel on public roads. You cannot be impaired, you have to have good eyesight, be minimally literate, etc. And you can't drive just any motorized contraption that you build in your garage. Motor vehicles have hundreds of standards for required safety equipment -- lights, signals, glass, pollution control, etc. Is that an assault on freedom? There are federal standards for occupant restraint. Seat belts are required equipment, and while there are some whiners who claim they are "uncomfortable" or who won't wear them for "libertarian" reasons, they are becoming fewer (maybe they're dying off). Motorcycles require certain federal safety features like lighting, signals, etc., and it is very reasonable to require use of a helmet (manufactured to certain standards) when riding on public roads.

 

Off-road is a completely different story. Build your own contraption. Ride naked. On-road with other motorists -- accept being regulated. My 2c.

 

How about governors on the engines to limit top end to the maximum speed limit supported by federal law since we can't count on drivers or riders to obey the already existing laws? States would be free to set own spped limits if they don't want highway funds. We know that speed kills and why should I have to pay through higher insurance premiums for the havoc caused by speeding?

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I'd support a national helmet regulation similar to the national seatbelt regulation. There's no federal statute, but the states should enact helmet laws it if they want federal funds. If they don't want helmet laws, that's fine. People can call that nanny-statism, and impinging on "personal freedom" but seat belts save lives, and so do helmets.

 

Some feel that operating a motor vehicle on regulated public roads should be a constitutional right, like free speech or free assembly, but of course it is not. Such notions demean and trivialize our real freedoms. Driving is an earned privilege. You have to be licensed, insured and pass a minimal test of competency or you can't get behind the wheel on public roads. You cannot be impaired, you have to have good eyesight, be minimally literate, etc. And you can't drive just any motorized contraption that you build in your garage. Motor vehicles have hundreds of standards for required safety equipment -- lights, signals, glass, pollution control, etc. Is that an assault on freedom? There are federal standards for occupant restraint. Seat belts are required equipment, and while there are some whiners who claim they are "uncomfortable" or who won't wear them for "libertarian" reasons, they are becoming fewer (maybe they're dying off). Motorcycles require certain federal safety features like lighting, signals, etc., and it is very reasonable to require use of a helmet (manufactured to certain standards) when riding on public roads.

 

Off-road is a completely different story. Build your own contraption. Ride naked. On-road with other motorists -- accept being regulated. My 2c.

 

How about governors on the engines to limit top end to the maximum speed limit supported by federal law since we can't count on drivers or riders to obey the already existing laws? States would be free to set own spped limits if they don't want highway funds. We know that speed kills and why should I have to pay through higher insurance premiums for the havoc caused by speeding?

 

You really want to do that to your "K" bike?

Never speed before? Maybe just once? Never go 20+ over the limit? Maybe just once?????

 

lurker.gif

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There's a difference between all the safety regulations on vehicles and licensing and helmets, the former can directly physically affect other users on the road. If - and I think it's a highly contentious argument - non helmet wearers cost everybody else money, and if that is a reason for making laws, there are many other things that have to go for the same reason, motorcycles being one of them.

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Can’t say I’m for a national helmet law any more than I was for the seat belt law.. Been wearing both a helmet & seat belt way long before it was required by any laws..

 

On the other hand I don’t want to pay higher insurance premiums because some moron won’t wear a seat belt or helmet.. (Or proper gloves, or proper shoes, or proper eye protection, etc)..

 

Laws alone won’t help unless education & proper upbringing & correct peer pressure is also involved..

 

Simple matter to resolve though.. You want to ride without a helmet or drive without a seat belt just maintain the proper (EXTRA) insurance coverage needed to do so.. Probably a $100,000 or $200,000 additional insurance rider will cover the dumb shi*s if all contribute but not all use the coverage.. Get caught without,, then crush the bike & pay massive amounts or spend about 6 or more weekends in jail (oh, I don’t want to support them either so just lock them up on their free time not work time)..

 

Twisty

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There are plenty of people on this board who ride without helmets on occasion, calling them morons and dumb shits is not going to lead to a rational discussion and is against the agreement you made to participate on the board. So let's cut out the name calling and have a decent discussion.

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Hey, lets replace helmet with smoking for a national law. Cigars/pipes included. See what kind of bashing we get then. I'm pretty sure smoking costs us much more in medical costs then M/C accidents.

Just a thought

lurker.gif

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Motorcycles require certain federal safety features like lighting, signals, etc., and it is very reasonable to require use of a helmet (manufactured to certain standards) when riding on public roads.

 

So you're comfortable with the government telling you how you must dress?

 

pimpII-729976.jpg

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Motorcycles require certain federal safety features like lighting, signals, etc., and it is very reasonable to require use of a helmet (manufactured to certain standards) when riding on public roads.

 

 

So you're comfortable with the government telling you how you must dress?

 

pimpII-729976.jpg

Damn, people sure would see you coming.

 

 

lmao.gif

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Helmet laws are needed for the stupid, simply because if you don't volentarily wear one, you are stupid! tongue.gif My fullface HJC saved me and my chin, then I smacked up a C1 another time! I don't like being told what to do, but helmets (and helmet laws) are VERY NECESSARY! I'm sure if your health insurance provider knew you weren't wearing one they would want to drop you! I had stones throne at my visor from tires, bumblebees, bettles, better my helmet than my face! I can't believe the amount of fools I see when I leave NJ and go to NY State wearing no helmet! Usually some dude on a Sportster or some God forsaken homemade toilet with a 3 foot wide rear tire making more noise than the Space Shuttle on liftoff but has less HP than my R1100R! As for the DUI laws, MAKE IT ZERO TOLERANCE! The lawyers, however, don't like that idea...wonder why? smirk.gif

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Lets_Play_Two
Hey, lets replace helmet with smoking for a national law. Cigars/pipes included. See what kind of bashing we get then. I'm pretty sure smoking costs us much more in medical costs then M/C accidents.

Just a thought

lurker.gif

 

Not to mention FAT!! grin.gif

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I would like stricter DUI laws which are actually enforced. BAC of .02 across the board just like CDLs would be good with no diversion (a joke program) and mandatory 10 days jail for strike #1. Forget the felony for strike #2 but they really need their wings clipped for about six months and 30 days in the hard-bar hotel. #3 and you are out. Felony/year in prison/grounded for life. This is a serious problem and people get hurt. If you collect 3 DUIs, you need help, not a motorcycle. Keep going to meetings, you'll get better. I believe the vast majority of DUIs are motorcycle killing cagers anyhow.

 

There are no reliable statistics to support that lower levels of impairment (0.08 and below) increase the number of accidents among auto drivers. At very high levels (like over 0.15) the statistics are staggering, these alcoholic drivers kill a lot of people. Making responsible drinkers criminals does nothing to keep the problem drinkers off the road.

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So you're comfortable with the government telling you how you must dress?

 

One's got nothing to do with the other.

 

Lots of straw-man assertions and inapt analogies going on here.

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Helmet laws are needed for the stupid, simply because if you don't volentarily wear one, you are stupid! tongue.gif My fullface HJC saved me and my chin, then I smacked up a C1 another time! I don't like being told what to do, but helmets (and helmet laws) are VERY NECESSARY! I'm sure if your health insurance provider knew you weren't wearing one they would want to drop you! I had stones throne at my visor from tires, bumblebees, bettles, better my helmet than my face! I can't believe the amount of fools I see when I leave NJ and go to NY State wearing no helmet! Usually some dude on a Sportster or some God forsaken homemade toilet with a 3 foot wide rear tire making more noise than the Space Shuttle on liftoff but has less HP than my R1100R! As for the DUI laws, MAKE IT ZERO TOLERANCE! The lawyers, however, don't like that idea...wonder why? smirk.gif

 

Based on your few posts already, you aren't going to last long on this board unless you start wading into the deeper end of the thought pool.

 

Dissenting opinions are wonderful when they promote thoughtful discussion. Otherwise they're just noise.

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My fullface HJC saved me and my chin, then I smacked up a C1 another time!
So your version of helmet laws requires full face helmets?
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We should stop motorcycles and cars from speeding. Seizures if necessary. Then our roads will be safe and we wouldn't need helmets.

 

I'm with Greg on this one. The time for action is now. We must act before it's too late.

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My fullface HJC saved me and my chin, then I smacked up a C1 another time!
So your version of helmet laws requires full face helmets?

 

I suppose you wear those Beannie Helmets (just kidding)...Just personal experience, glad I was wearing a fullface the times I went down..

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I suppose you wear those Beannie Helmets (just kidding)...Just personal experience, glad I was wearing a fullface the times I went down..
I wear a DOT approved open face helmet (3/4 helmet if you like). I would stop riding if forced to wear a full face, it's a risk v reward thing.
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Helmet laws are needed for the stupid, simply because if you don't volentarily wear one, you are stupid! tongue.gif My fullface HJC saved me and my chin, then I smacked up a C1 another time! I don't like being told what to do, but helmets (and helmet laws) are VERY NECESSARY! I'm sure if your health insurance provider knew you weren't wearing one they would want to drop you! I had stones throne at my visor from tires, bumblebees, bettles, better my helmet than my face! I can't believe the amount of fools I see when I leave NJ and go to NY State wearing no helmet! Usually some dude on a Sportster or some God forsaken homemade toilet with a 3 foot wide rear tire making more noise than the Space Shuttle on liftoff but has less HP than my R1100R! As for the DUI laws, MAKE IT ZERO TOLERANCE! The lawyers, however, don't like that idea...wonder why? smirk.gif

 

Based on your few posts already, you aren't going to last long on this board unless you start wading into the deeper end of the thought pool.

 

Dissenting opinions are wonderful when they promote thoughtful discussion. Otherwise they're just noise.

 

Hey easy there! Didn't mean to ruffle those feathers! tongue.gif I guess my opening line was a bit inappropriate, I'm sure many riders I have seen not wearing a helmet have a much higher IQ than myself... dopeslap.gif

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Hey easy there! Didn't mean to ruffle those feathers!

 

You didn't ruffle my feathers. I'm trying to save you from yourself.

 

I guess my opening line was a bit inappropriate, I'm sure many riders I have seen not wearing a helmet have a much higher IQ than myself... dopeslap.gif

 

It's possible.

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russell_bynum
Helmet laws are needed for the stupid, simply because if you don't volentarily wear one, you are stupid!

 

Riding motorcycles is stupid.

 

They're expensive, dangerous, unstable, unforgiving, expose the rider to the elements, and they are not particularly efficient (due to their terrible aerodynamics). Anyone who rides a motorcycle is NOT doing what's best for them or for society.

 

But...even if you accept the idiotic notion that riding a motorcycle without a helmet is stupid, but riding one with a helmet is not, who says we have to make it illegal to be stupid?

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I personally am a little indifferent with regard to the propsosed laws. We pretty much can't get around them. What we really need is people with more common sense. It cracks me up while I am in full gear and pass some dude riding on an American V-twin (loud) motorcycle and his hair is blowing in the wind. I wish I could find pictures of crash victims that weren't wearing a helmet to give to those people. Cool looking or not, I like my brains right where they are, law or no law.

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Hey, lets replace helmet with smoking for a national law. Cigars/pipes included. See what kind of bashing we get then. I'm pretty sure smoking costs us much more in medical costs then M/C accidents.

Just a thought

 

 

If you did this how would you replace the millions of tax dollars the smokers are paying into the tax base of this country? I am sure the amount of taxes placed on smoking items could cause a REAL problem in this country if that revenue both on the federal and state level is lost.

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russell_bynum
Hey, lets replace helmet with smoking for a national law. Cigars/pipes included. See what kind of bashing we get then. I'm pretty sure smoking costs us much more in medical costs then M/C accidents.

Just a thought

 

 

If you did this how would you replace the millions of tax dollars the smokers are paying into the tax base of this country? I am sure the amount of taxes placed on smoking items could cause a REAL problem in this country if that revenue both on the federal and state level is lost.

 

And what about all those unemployed doctors, nurses, physical therapists, etc if we have a national helmet law?

 

grin.gif

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John Ranalletta
Helmet laws are needed for the stupid, simply because if you don't volentarily wear one, you are stupid! tongue.gif My fullface HJC saved me and my chin, then I smacked up a C1 another time! I don't like being told what to do, but helmets (and helmet laws) are VERY NECESSARY! I'm sure if your health insurance provider knew you weren't wearing one they would want to drop you! I had stones throne at my visor from tires, bumblebees, bettles, better my helmet than my face! I can't believe the amount of fools I see when I leave NJ and go to NY State wearing no helmet! Usually some dude on a Sportster or some God forsaken homemade toilet with a 3 foot wide rear tire making more noise than the Space Shuttle on liftoff but has less HP than my R1100R! As for the DUI laws, MAKE IT ZERO TOLERANCE! The lawyers, however, don't like that idea...wonder why? smirk.gif
When I read threads like this one, I get depressed. The only thing that brings me out of it is to jump on the DRZ400 or the Sherpa sans helmet, gloves while wearing a t-shirt, jeans and deck shoes while I buzz the neighborhood at full tilt.

 

That makes me feel better about helmet threads.

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Hey, lets replace helmet with smoking for a national law. Cigars/pipes included. See what kind of bashing we get then. I'm pretty sure smoking costs us much more in medical costs then M/C accidents.

Just a thought

 

 

If you did this how would you replace the millions of tax dollars the smokers are paying into the tax base of this country? I am sure the amount of taxes placed on smoking items could cause a REAL problem in this country if that revenue both on the federal and state level is lost.

 

And what about all those unemployed doctors, nurses, physical therapists, etc if we have a national helmet law?

 

grin.gif

 

They will be standing in the same line as the lawyers. clap.gif

lurker.gif

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Helmet laws are needed for the stupid, simply because if you don't volentarily wear one, you are stupid!

 

Riding motorcycles is stupid.

 

They're expensive, dangerous, unstable, unforgiving, expose the rider to the elements, and they are not particularly efficient (due to their terrible aerodynamics). Anyone who rides a motorcycle is NOT doing what's best for them or for society.

 

But...even if you accept the idiotic notion that riding a motorcycle without a helmet is stupid, but riding one with a helmet is not, who says we have to make it illegal to be stupid?

 

To me, this entire thread can be reduced to this one post.

 

We like to sing "..land of the free and the home of the brave.." at baseball games, then we go and see how we can further regulate the behavior of those we don't agree with! Yeah, I am comfortable with the overwhelmingly socially condemned behavior of riding a motorcycle, so that should be legal, but I am not comfortable with those who do in a manner different than me, so therefore we need laws to regulate them!

 

Be an example; practice what you ultimately preach: hang up your riding keys, sell the bike, buy a Buick, and then come back and preach to us about what a bunch of "morons" we all are for not following in your footsteps thumbsup.gifdopeslap.gifgrin.gif

 

Anything short of this and you're looking pretty hypocritical.

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Hey easy there! Didn't mean to ruffle those feathers!

 

You didn't ruffle my feathers. I'm trying to save you from yourself.

 

I guess my opening line was a bit inappropriate, I'm sure many riders I have seen not wearing a helmet have a much higher IQ than myself... dopeslap.gif

 

It's possible.

 

The possibilites are endless, and so are replies to topics like this! Much respect on my part towards the people on this great forum! thumbsup.gif

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Helmet laws are needed for the stupid, simply because if you don't volentarily wear one, you are stupid!

 

Riding motorcycles is stupid.

 

They're expensive, dangerous, unstable, unforgiving, expose the rider to the elements, and they are not particularly efficient (due to their terrible aerodynamics). Anyone who rides a motorcycle is NOT doing what's best for them or for society.

 

But...even if you accept the idiotic notion that riding a motorcycle without a helmet is stupid, but riding one with a helmet is not, who says we have to make it illegal to be stupid?

 

To me, this entire thread can be reduced to this one post.

 

We like to sing "..land of the free and the home of the brave.." at baseball games, then we go and see how we can further regulate the behavior of those we don't agree with! Yeah, I am comfortable with the overwhelmingly socially condemned behavior of riding a motorcycle, so that should be legal, but I am not comfortable with those who do in a manner different than me, so therefore we need laws to regulate them!

 

Be an example; practice what you ultimately preach: hang up your riding keys, sell the bike, buy a Buick, and then come back and preach to us about what a bunch of "morons" we all are for not following in your footsteps thumbsup.gifdopeslap.gifgrin.gif

 

Anything short of this and you're looking pretty hypocritical.

 

...I do practice my preaching, I always wear my helmet! cool.gif

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russell_bynum
Helmet laws are needed for the stupid, simply because if you don't volentarily wear one, you are stupid!

 

Riding motorcycles is stupid.

 

They're expensive, dangerous, unstable, unforgiving, expose the rider to the elements, and they are not particularly efficient (due to their terrible aerodynamics). Anyone who rides a motorcycle is NOT doing what's best for them or for society.

 

But...even if you accept the idiotic notion that riding a motorcycle without a helmet is stupid, but riding one with a helmet is not, who says we have to make it illegal to be stupid?

 

To me, this entire thread can be reduced to this one post.

 

We like to sing "..land of the free and the home of the brave.." at baseball games, then we go and see how we can further regulate the behavior of those we don't agree with! Yeah, I am comfortable with the overwhelmingly socially condemned behavior of riding a motorcycle, so that should be legal, but I am not comfortable with those who do in a manner different than me, so therefore we need laws to regulate them!

 

Be an example; practice what you ultimately preach: hang up your riding keys, sell the bike, buy a Buick, and then come back and preach to us about what a bunch of "morons" we all are for not following in your footsteps thumbsup.gifdopeslap.gifgrin.gif

 

Anything short of this and you're looking pretty hypocritical.

 

...I do practice my preaching, I always wear my helmet! cool.gif

 

So? You ride a dangerous, impractical, unforgiving, inefficient vehicle that exposes you to the elements. So you put a little plastic hat on for protection...big whup.

 

What beemerman2k is saying, is that if helmet use should be mandatory because of the "cost to society", then we should ban motorcycles since even a fully geared-up rider is considerably more vulnerable than a car driver.

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[

I think it's a highly contentious argument - non helmet wearers cost everybody else money,
But they do Bob. No person is an island in a society. No person's actions are completely separate from affecting others. On the quantifiable level motorcycle injuries or fatalities that could have been reduced or eliminated by helmet use cost all of us riders directly in the form of higher insurance premiums. It cost riders and non-riders alike in the form of medical expenses that have to be covered by insurance cost and thus higher premiums, and treatment and care cost that has to be covered by some means. Either in higher cost to others, family financial impact (often financial ruin), government funded (more taxes) programs, etc.

 

There are many more direct but less quantifiable cost to everyone as a result of non-helmet us too. Loss of productivity in the workplace, reduction of family’s income and its long term economic impact. Loss of contribution to society of the person injured/lost in their productivity contribution. When the position of one person in a group is diminished in some way, the whole group is diminished. Be the ‘group’ a family, a workplace, a church, a community or a country. Just look at the impact the loss of a person has here in this online community. Those losses are real and cost us all real money. Their contribution to how any one of us might save a buck is gone forever. And I’m not even touching on the other aspects; such as the emotional devastation these incidents have. Only countering your argument that they don’t cost everybody else money. Because I firmly believe they do.

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Ken, I'm not going to respond directly to your contention because I don't think there is anything to be gained by it.

 

The point that I think is important is that if we are going to adopt a principle that behaviour must be regulated due to the financial impact it has on other members of society, we are going to lose a lot more than the ability to ride without helmets.

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russell_bynum
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I think it's a highly contentious argument - non helmet wearers cost everybody else money,
But they do Bob. No person is an island in a society. No person's actions are completely separate from affecting others. On the quantifiable level motorcycle injuries or fatalities that could have been reduced or eliminated by helmet use cost all of us riders directly in the form of higher insurance premiums. It cost riders and non-riders alike in the form of medical expenses that have to be covered by insurance cost and thus higher premiums, and treatment and care cost that has to be covered by some means. Either in higher cost to others, family financial impact (often financial ruin), government funded (more taxes) programs, etc.

 

There are many more direct but less quantifiable cost to everyone as a result of non-helmet us too. Loss of productivity in the workplace, reduction of family’s income and its long term economic impact. Loss of contribution to society of the person injured/lost in their productivity contribution. When the position of one person in a group is diminished in some way, the whole group is diminished. Be the ‘group’ a family, a workplace, a church, a community or a country. Just look at the impact the loss of a person has here in this online community. Those losses are real and cost us all real money. Their contribution to how any one of us might save a buck is gone forever. And I’m not even touching on the other aspects; such as the emotional devastation these incidents have. Only countering your argument that they don’t cost everybody else money. Because I firmly believe they do.

 

1. Do non-helmet wearers really cost more?

 

If so, then can I assume that insurance premiums are higher in states without helmet laws than they are in states with helmet laws?

 

And...can I assume that insurance companies ask riders in states without helmet laws if they wear a helmet or not? I get asked all kinds of questions when I get insurance...do I smoke, am I a private pilot, etc. Nobody ever asks if I wear a helmet...but I'm sure that's just because I live in a state with a helmet law, and folks in non-helmet law states are asked that question. Right?

 

2. If un-helmeted riders really do cost more, and that is acceptable grounds for outlawing their behavior...then what else should be outlawed based on the cost to society?

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Jerry_75_Guy

I always say 'everybody's gotta have a hobby', but didn't we just do this a week or two ago (with the same results), and the month before that, and maybe a couple of months before that, and...... tongue.gifwink.gif

 

Ah well; I do enjoy theater smirk.gif

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All the folks who support regulating others' behavior should read Thomas Sowell's The Vision Of The Annointed.

 

It is easy to be smug and comfortable when the behavior you want the government control only affects those "other folks."

 

My personal position is that NOT using all the safety gear that is available and within your means is, at best, irrational. However, it is not my right nor the government's job to enforce "good" behavior. Russel_bynum has it exactly right: the mere act of riding a motorcycle is an impractical, less-than-rational act. The logical conclusion of this line of reasoning is to ban the "irrational behavior" of riding motorcycles. Be careful what you ask for.

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