My Final Drive went out

[Grassman]

For the past two weeks I had a vibration in my foot pegs. Then I noticed some oil on my rear wheel when I was installing my new Hyper pro shocks, which lowered my bike one and a half inches. It rides awesome . Well back to the final drive. The black boot is off the swing arm. And I think there is no more oil in it. The little oil that I wiped out of it smelled burnt. I called the BMW dealer and made an appoint for service. The problem is it is a 05 with 50,000 miles on it.

[Firefight911]

Black boot? That just covers the junction between the shaft and the FD.

 

Where are you seeing as the source of your oil?

 

As for the mileage and warranty; be an advocate with your dealer. Open a dialog, get them to support you. Just because of a number you are not necessarily precluded from a potential warranty claim.

 

Keep us posted.

[Grassman]

Yes it is the boot that joins the shaft and the FD. The source of the oil is in the bottom of the joint and out of the botton of the FD

[BamaRider]

Dayum.

[Axe]

My 06 R1200RT is heading to the shop week after next to repair the same issue. Oh and it is the second time in 1000 miles. Love this machine but I am getting a bit tired of this.

[JayW]

Grassman, please let us know how things turn out at the dealer. I will be very interested to see if BMW is willing to stand behind their product. The bike is past the warranty, but you nevertheless can make a good argument that the FD failed prematurely. Given all the bad press lately about BMW final drives, I will be very disappointed if they make you pay for this.

 

Jay

[Don_Eilenberger]

For the past two weeks I had a vibration in my foot pegs. Then I noticed some oil on my rear wheel when I was installing my new Hyper pro shocks, which lowered my bike one and a half inches. It rides awesome . Well back to the final drive. The black boot is off the swing arm. And I think there is no more oil in it. The little oil that I wiped out of it smelled burnt. I called the BMW dealer and made an appoint for service. The problem is it is a 05 with 50,000 miles on it.

I'm not understanding this exactly..

 

By the black-boot, we're assuming you mean the accordian sort of boot just in front of the rear drive?

 

And you found a bit of oil in it?

 

There might be some cast off spline lubricant in this area - but the boot and swingarm do not normally have oil in them. On older oilheads - the pinion gear seal (the input shaft to the rear-drive) was known to leak a bit sometimes. Since those rear-drives have a lot of oil in them - no one worried much.

 

Any clarification would be helpful.. you might be experiencing something like a driveshaft universal joint failure - which would me much different from a rear-drive failure (although it too could leave you by the side of the road..)

[Grassman]

The bmw dealer said that infact my final drive is out and bmw is not going to cover it. The dealer said it was the fifth one this week.

[awagnon]

The dealer said it was the fifth one this week.

 

That's a lot of defective bikes for the population of Grand Junction. I went to a tech seminar with probably about 100 people attending. Someone asked an open question; "How many with new model bikes have personally had a FD failure?" At least 10% held up their hands. I haven't bought a new BMW for this reason. I think BMW is going to start loosing sales as this becomes common knowledge. Also, I think the BMWMOA should earn our dues and be more proactive on this issue pushing for a recall or extended warranty.

[Grassman]

Actually I get my bike serviced at Foothills BMW in Denver. The BMW dealer in Grand Junction is the worst. They only have one tech and a grand total of five bikes on the showroom floor. The owner is more interested in selling Honda dirt bikes.

[grayghost]

The owner is more interested in selling Honda dirt bikes.

 

Maybe because he has less service issues with them?

[Schupo]

Quote:

 

The bmw dealer said that infact my final drive is out and bmw is not going to cover it. The dealer said it was the fifth one this week.

______________________________________________________

 

I stopped by my dealer last week to inquire about an extended warranty for my '06 RT. They are now charging $1,500 rather than the $800 they were asking six months ago.

 

At first I thought it was the marketing guys cashing in on the "hysteria", but it sounds more and more like the increase is due to the actuaries updating their numbers.

[ZoomX7]

Sorry to hear about your problem.

Any idea how much this may cost you if BMW sticks you with the bill?

 

FWIW ...I've been watching this FD subject, and I have to say it makes me more than a little concerned about getting a new RT. So for now, I'm sitting on the sideline, waiting for BMW to "make things right"!

A great bike like this (and it's riders) deserve better!

[Guest]

Sorry to hear about your problem.

Any idea how much this may cost you if BMW sticks you with the bill?

 

FWIW ...I've been watching this FD subject, and I have to say it makes me more than a little concerned about getting a new RT. So for now, I'm sitting on the sideline, waiting for BMW to "make things right"!

A great bike like this (and it's riders) deserve better!

 

The part number has been obsoleted for the final drive. I don't know the new part number but something has changed.

[John in VA]

The part number has been obsoleted for the final drive. I don't know the new part number but something has changed.

 

Maybe just the part number has changed?

[Grassman]

The Dealer said that if they replaced just the gears inside the housing it would be 700. If they replaced the housing and the gears it would be 1400.

[awagnon]

The part number has been obsoleted for the final drive. I don't know the new part number but something has changed.

 

That may or may not help future bike owners, but does zip for all the rest who are going to have FD failures right after their warranty runs out. As I said, they should do the honorable thing and extend the warranty on the drive train. It would go a long way towards owner/buyer confidence in BMW.

[JayW]

You may be able to find a used one. I did a quick check and found a low mileage FD for the R1200R at Beemerboneyard.com. I think it has a different gear ration than the RT version, but may otherwise fit. I think they were asking $475 for it. If I were an IBR rider, I might be tempted to pick one of these up and carry it along as a spare for 11 days just in case.

 

Good luck.

 

Jay

[Guest]

The part number has been obsoleted for the final drive. I don't know the new part number but something has changed.

 

Maybe just the part number has changed?

 

Maybe, maybe not.

 

http://www.bmwgs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272452&page=3

 

Go to bottom.

[Mike T]

As I said, they should do the honorable thing and extend the warranty on the drive train. It would go a long way towards owner/buyer confidence in BMW.

 

"do the honorable thing?" not very likely when you're talking about BMWNA. As long as we keep buying their bikes and putting up with this crap, they'll keep maximizng profit buy forcing their customers to pay for their design mistakes.

[Ken H.]

"do the honorable thing?" not very likely when you're talking about BMWNA. As long as we keep buying their bikes and putting up with this crap, they'll keep maximizng profit buy forcing their customers to pay for their design mistakes.

Oh that might be a bit unfair. There have been plenty of documented instances of BMW covering some or all of repairs after the official warranty period was over. Let's wait and hear what they do for the OP before condemning them just yet...

[Mike T]

"do the honorable thing?" not very likely when you're talking about BMWNA. As long as we keep buying their bikes and putting up with this crap, they'll keep maximizng profit buy forcing their customers to pay for their design mistakes.

Oh that might be a bit unfair. There have been plenty of documented instances of BMW covering some or all of repairs after the official warranty period was over. Let's wait and hear what they do for the OP before condemning them just yet...

 

Your right Ken. I need to give BMWNA a chance here (although they are "zero for one" based on this thread). Perhaps with enough irrate customers or fear of a law suit over a saftey issue they will do the "honorable thing".

[Grassman]

Well I just got my bike back from the shop. The parts were on back order from Germany. The total cost was 817.23

[tdtflyboy]

We just got an '06 RT with 12K on it. Waiting now to receive all the maint paperwork from the orig owner, who traded it in for a Gold Wing ('cause the RT was too tall for him). But think I did hear he'd had a final drive issue at some point.

 

If anyone knows or can find out, I really would like to know if there's been an actual design change to the final drive.

 

I've also heard the "lifetime" final drive oil concept has been deep-sixed, and it will now have some sort of maintenance interval. How much that may really help, besides upping maint costs , is anybody's guess.

 

At least St. Louis has a dealership again ... but we'll most likely only go there for warranty work. Dave Clark's Forever Endeavor Cycles down in Eureka will continue to get all of our maintenance business. He's kept our LT runnin' like a champ, and we're into 6 figure mileage. Hope I can say the same for the RT one day.

[Survived-til-now]

Just a thought. Have you had the bike from new and if not do you KNOW that it has not had a replacement FD within the last two years?

 

My bike is a Mar 05 but it had a new FD in Mar 07 as part of a crash repair - I am trusting that if that goes on me I can claim under the two year warranty on parts.... OR am I kidding myself?

 

Andy

[finallyabeemer]

Very sorry to hear about this, Grassman.

 

Can you please do all R12 owners a favor and report the problem to the NHTSA?

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/

 

Getting owners to reporting ALL of these incidents here is probably the most effective way to get this issue brought to a head.

[Skoti]

My '02 R1150RT final drive bearings were renewed at 36k.

No apparent oil leak, just seemed like excess tyre/road noise and a roughness when the rear wheel was spun with the bike on the main stand.

I had dealer servicing since new, but BMW (Germany) still refused any 'goodwill warranty' assistance.

 

Seems like they are getting quite mean those days, in the past times with previous BMW bikes I've at least had goodwill warranties that paid only the parts or parts and labour.

[Don_Eilenberger]

My '02 R1150RT final drive bearings were renewed at 36k.

No apparent oil leak, just seemed like excess tyre/road noise and a roughness when the rear wheel was spun with the bike on the main stand.

I had dealer servicing since new, but BMW (Germany) still refused any 'goodwill warranty' assistance.

 

Seems like they are getting quite mean those days, in the past times with previous BMW bikes I've at least had goodwill warranties that paid only the parts or parts and labour.

Just a few comments..

 

The bike isn't a hexhead. NTTAWWT.

 

If this happened recently - dunno what the warranty in the Czech Republic is - but in the US - this bike would have been out of warranty by 2 or 3 years, despite the low miles.

 

Goodwill warranties are usually initiated by the servicing dealer - for a good customer. I don't know the situation here - but in the US - if the dealer really pushes for a Goodwill warranty - BMW usually coughs up something. Usually parts for free, and you pay labor. Again - may be entirely different in Europe.

[Skoti]

My '02 R1150RT final drive bearings were renewed at 36k.

No apparent oil leak, just seemed like excess tyre/road noise and a roughness when the rear wheel was spun with the bike on the main stand.

I had dealer servicing since new, but BMW (Germany) still refused any 'goodwill warranty' assistance.

 

Seems like they are getting quite mean those days, in the past times with previous BMW bikes I've at least had goodwill warranties that paid only the parts or parts and labour.

Just a few comments..

 

The bike isn't a hexhead. NTTAWWT.

 

If this happened recently - dunno what the warranty in the Czech Republic is - but in the US - this bike would have been out of warranty by 2 or 3 years, despite the low miles.

 

Goodwill warranties are usually initiated by the servicing dealer - for a good customer. I don't know the situation here - but in the US - if the dealer really pushes for a Goodwill warranty - BMW usually coughs up something. Usually parts for free, and you pay labor. Again - may be entirely different in Europe.

 

OOPS! sorry it's an oilhead, wrong section!

[JMR]

Well I just got my bike back from the shop. The parts were on back order from Germany. The total cost was 817.23

Grassman, just checking how the repair went?/is going?/is going to go? Thanks.

[Grassman]

My bike is back on the road and I have put about 5k on it with no problems.

[dyvking]

I've also heard the "lifetime" final drive oil concept has been deep-sixed, and it will now have some sort of maintenance interval.

When I took both my hexheads in for 18k services last summer, I was informed of the dropped 'lifetime' rear end thing, and that I would have to pay for a drain/refill for each. I wasn't particularly happy about that, since I had purchased the bikes with the assurance that the final drive oil would never have to be replaced.

[bross]

I've also heard the "lifetime" final drive oil concept has been deep-sixed, and it will now have some sort of maintenance interval.

When I took both my hexheads in for 18k services last summer, I was informed of the dropped 'lifetime' rear end thing, and that I would have to pay for a drain/refill for each. I wasn't particularly happy about that, since I had purchased the bikes with the assurance that the final drive oil would never have to be replaced.

That's why you bought the bike was because you didn't have to replace a few hundred mils of oil. My turn to be confused.

[dyvking]

That's why you bought the bike was because you didn't have to replace a few hundred mils of oil. My turn to be confused.

Uh.. nobody said that was the only reason they bought the bike. Had that been the case, I would have been considerably more than "not particularly happy"! Those 'few hundred mils' of oil aren't all that swift and easy to replace, since there's no drain hole in the rear end for that purpose, and the final drive has to be dropped. It's time consuming, and dealer service time doesn't come cheap.

 

As it is, part of BMW's advertising for these bikes was that the rear end would not have to be serviced for life. The fact that BMW rescinded that assurance ended up costing me extra money. Try not to be confused

[bross]

That's why you bought the bike was because you didn't have to replace a few hundred mils of oil. My turn to be confused.

Uh.. nobody said that was the only reason they bought the bike. Had that been the case, I would have been considerably more than "not particularly happy"! Those 'few hundred mils' of oil aren't all that swift and easy to replace, since there's no drain hole in the rear end for that purpose, and the final drive has to be dropped. It's time consuming, and dealer service time doesn't come cheap.

 

As it is, part of BMW's advertising for these bikes was that the rear end would not have to be serviced for life. The fact that BMW rescinded that assurance ended up costing me extra money. Try not to be confused

I just did it when I was changing tires and it really wasn't a big deal. You have to pull the wheel off every 15-17,000kms for tires changes anyway, so to me it's cheap insurance to drop the rear end and inspect the oil and magnetic pickup.

 

But I guess if you're paying the $85/hour to the dealer then you may be miffed. But it doesn't take more than an hour, so $85 every couple years again doesn't seem excessive. :shrug:

[marcopolo]

My independent BMW Master tech takes (and charges for) 30 minutes labour to change the FD fluid on my R12RT. I have also had it changed by a dealer while on the road (after my FD failed and was replaced under warranty at an earlier stop). They charged me more than 30 mins.

[billp]

I heard on the 08 model they now have a drain hole. So, not only can you be upset that you now have to change the oil but also you bought the wrong year!

 

Life is sweet.

[AndyW9999]

I heard on the 08 model they now have a drain hole.

 

That is so.......I wonder how practical/possible it would be to have a hole drilled and tapped in earlier FDs?

 

Black boot? That just covers the junction between the shaft and the FD.

 

Keep an eye on those rubber boots.....the flange that seats them should be greased and a tie wrap fitted I beleive.

Unfortunate consequence of a bad seal and water getting in:

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130740

[CraCol]

Any idea how much this may cost you if BMW sticks you with the bill?

 

~$1300 for the drive, plus labor..

 

TinMan.

[grasslander]

Any idea how much this may cost you if BMW sticks you with the bill?

 

~$1300 for the drive, plus labor..

 

TinMan.

 

Dealer Quote---

Replace the Alloy flange that holds your wheel:

$300.00 parts/labor

Replace Final Drive:

$1600.00 parts/labor

[bensonga]

I worry about the final drive on my R1100RT failing someday and leaving me stranded. I'd love to have a new 1200RT, but for $18-$20,000 for a new RT, I expect better than this from BMW. Lubing the chains on my VFR800, DL650, W650 and ZR-7S takes a little extra time, but the likelihood of me being stranded on the side of the road because of a chain drive failure is pretty darn low. When I owned an old style Kawasaki Concours (1999) I rarely heard about final drive/shaft drive failures on the COG forum. If the Beemers weren't such great bikes (for other reasons), I don't think people wouldn't put up with this crap....and rightly so.

 

Gary Benson

Eagle River, Alaska

[smiller]

I worry about the final drive on my R1100RT failing someday and leaving me stranded. I'd love to have a new 1200RT,

I'm not sure there's any reason to believe that would increase reliability very much...

[bensonga]

I'd love to have a new 1200RT

I'm not sure there's any reason to believe that would increase reliability very much...

 

I know...and that's discouraging. I had hoped final drive failures would be a thing of the past and it wouldn't be something to worry about with a new 12RT. I love the 12RT, I test rode one last summer, a great bike in so many respects, but who needs this kind of uncertainty after spending $18-$20,000?

 

Gary

[HenWin]

I heard on the 08 model they now have a drain hole. So, not only can you be upset that you now have to change the oil but also you bought the wrong year!Life is sweet.

 

I wonder if the 08 unit is retro-fittable to prior years? (That is if drilling a drain hole isn't advisable?)

[marcopolo]

I wonder if the 08 unit is retro-fittable to prior years? (That is if drilling a drain hole isn't advisable?)

 

I don't see why not, but would you want to spend 1,300-odd bucks on a new final drive, just to have a drain on the bottom? Prior-year models have drains; they're just not at the six o'clock position, so you have to drop the drive to let the oil drain out.

[finallyabeemer]

Bensonga - Reading your post made me realize something... Every bike I've ever owned had its warts...

Even my beloved Connie - a '92 model. Didn't you ever read all the internet lamenting and hysteria about the pitting cams? And the cracking connections on the main electrical junction board? And the rusting gas tanks? And the sticking anti-surge disk in the petcock that caused petcocks to stick open and hydrolock the engine?

 

Yup, a whole bunch of horrible "design defects" guaranteed to ruin your trip and strand you. And with that many, it was surely unlikely the machine would ever get you out of the garage.

 

Funny, after 88K miles, she is still going strong and NEVER ONCE did any of those things happen.

 

So what am I going to do?

- At each stop, I will glance at the FD at for leaks.

- I will NEVER ignore weird vibrations in the rear wheel.

- I will continue to ride the freakin' snot outta this incredible machine and not worry about it! The hard data still says I am far more likely to hit a deer or get hit by a car. I am OK with and managing those risks, so why obsess over this one?

[bensonga]

Bensonga - Reading your post made me realize something... Every bike I've ever owned had its warts...

Even my beloved Connie - a '92 model.

 

I agree. I've yet to experience the perfect motorcycle or machine...it's just that some warts are more serious than others. Never had any problems with my '99 Connie, but after riding the '96 R1100RT...the Connie just didn't do it for me anymore. I enjoyed both bikes, but I like the RT more. It's just frustrating that BMW hasn't been able to sort out these final drive problems over the past 10+ years, with all their engineering and mechanical design expertise.

 

Funny, after 88K miles, she is still going strong and NEVER ONCE did any of those things happen.

 

I hope you have another 88K trouble free miles. Unfortunately, it seems like quite a few folks are still experiencing these final drive failures on the Beemers in MUCH less than 88K miles. I just hope it never happens to me while I'm out riding the 1100RT, hundreds of miles from the nearest shop. As I said, that's not something I really worry about with chain drive on my other bikes.

 

So what am I going to do?

- At each stop, I will glance at the FD at for leaks.

- I will NEVER ignore weird vibrations in the rear wheel.

- I will continue to ride the freakin' snot outta this incredible machine and not worry about it! The hard data still says I am far more likely to hit a deer or get hit by a car. I am OK with and managing those risks, so why obsess over this one?

 

All good advice, but it just doesn't get to my point which is that BMW should have sorted this out long ago (or certainly with the latest designs, especially considering the price of these machines) and quite frankly, I have the impression that other motorcycles with shaft drives don't have these many failures....although I'll be the first to say I have no statistics to back up that impression.

 

Gary Benson

Eagle River, Alaska

[Don_Eilenberger]

Gary said:

Bensonga - Reading your post made me realize something... Every bike I've ever owned had its warts...

Even my beloved Connie - a '92 model.

Snippage..

I hope you have another 88K trouble free miles. Unfortunately, it seems like quite a few folks are still experiencing these final drive failures on the Beemers in MUCH less than 88K miles. I just hope it never happens to me while I'm out riding the 1100RT, hundreds of miles from the nearest shop. As I said, that's not something I really worry about with chain drive on my other bikes.

Snippage..

Gary Benson

Eagle River, Alaska

The only disagreement I might have with your statement is "quite a few folks" - although I understand it was preceded by "it seems like"..

 

I think the perception of a LOT of rear drive failures is the result of a number of well publicized failures on the Internet. There were some attempts at getting actual numbers for the failures using a poll - and it came out to less than 4%. That type of poll has a built in bias - in that people who have experienced the problem are generally more likely to respond to it.

 

The real numbers are only known by BMW.. but if I had to take a guess - I'd bet the real number is less than 1% failure rate (based on our local club, rather heavily populated by riders with the new drive - and only one failure experienced last year with over 300,000 miles totalled in our mileage context.. Interestingly - the one failure was by someone who also experienced a rear drive failure when he was riding an LT with the old drive design..)

 

My point being - it's not anything that I stay awake nights worrying about - or anything that would keep me from taking a trip to about anywhere..

[finallyabeemer]

Based on my experience with "internet reporting" and the amount of hard cold facts available, I tend to agree with Don with my "guesstimate" of the real failure rate.

 

And the most important thing I will always do? Until facts or data come out to prove my theory wrong, I will:

 

Torque the rear wheel with the utmost care!

Always using a crossing pattern and multiple steps and never exceeding factory spec.

[Twisties]

The hard data still says I am far more likely to hit a deer or get hit by a car.

 

There is no hard data. I certainly hope my chances of hitting a deer in the next 50,000 miles are much, much, much lower than the speculative range of premature FD failures.

 

There were some attempts at getting actual numbers for the failures using a poll - and it came out to less than 4%. That type of poll has a built in bias - in that people who have experienced the problem are generally more likely to respond to it.

 

There have been some attempts non-scientific polls. They have all come out in the 4 to 5% range. I agree completely that they could be biased, but there is no evidence to support the direction of bias, and as has been evidenced on this website many are highly motivated to absolve BMW of blame, therefore there are potential biases in both directions. Bottom line, I agree with you, my personal opinion is about 1% based on everything I've seen, but that's all it is, a personal opinion. BMW owes us a disclosure.

 

I also agree, I'm riding as much as I can and not worrying about it. But I do consider a failure rate in the percent range to be completely unacceptable. It is cause for a recall and/or a package of extended warranty, towing, trip insurance and guaranteed same day drive availability at all dealers.

 

Jan