FD Failure maybe, rear bearing for sure at this point!

[dhanson]

Just went up on center stand to wash bike, rear wheel is loose like 1/4" side to side, top to bottom. Rear axle is solid, but wheel assembly is loose on axle.

 

Believe there is a large bearing there that lost preload, and no telling how far I rode on it, started noticing funny feeling at low speed in Tenn or Miss, but thought it was the front tire cupping making the funny feeling (wallowing). At highway speed it was solid as a rock??

 

Dealer is closed till Tuesday, and yes it is under warranty although I did not purchase from this dealer.

[BereIsland]

Hope it turns out good

Steve

[marcopolo]

Just went up on center stand to wash bike, rear wheel is loose like 1/4" side to side, top to bottom. Rear axle is solid, but wheel assembly is loose on axle.

 

Believe there is a large bearing there that lost preload, and no telling how far I rode on it, started noticing funny feeling at low speed in Tenn or Miss, but thought it was the front tire cupping making the funny feeling (wallowing). At highway speed it was solid as a rock??

 

Dealer is closed till Tuesday, and yes it is under warranty although I did not purchase from this dealer.

 

That's sounds like what I experienced on my R12RT in July. Turned out is was the splines -- on the axle tube, and on the flange (attached to rear brake rotor). In this case, the only fix was to replace the final drive, the rear rotor, and the lug nuts. You might also check for residue on the wheel that looks somewhat like brake dust -- it was metal "filings" created from the two sets of slines grinding each other.

[dhanson]

Yep, I had the fine dust residue, but no oil to speak of.

 

Wish they had a normal swingarm kit, that would give tons more strength!

[Bud]

Bummer, sorry to hear it. Maybe the better half will consider that other bike now?

[JustJean]

Sure I would love to get an RT!

[Bud]

Sure I would love to get an RT!

 

 

I knew I liked your sense of humor Jean.

[Bud]

Not to worry, unless it looks like this.

 

[BereIsland]

Nice meeting you,and welcome to the board, just a thought, do you manage to stay on the GT better then you do boats

 

Steve

[JustJean]

It was great meeting you guys too!

 

If I leave the back of the bike it will be because he slips out of his jacket!!

 

And after looking at some of the rafting pictures I now believe he pushed me......

[dhanson]

I will answer that, we were doing some twisties with a group on monday and my back was getting tight. I go, Jean can you give me a massage, my back is getting stiff?

 

Jean responded promptly, NO! (I think WHAT?) So I go, what do you mean no? She says, "I can't turn loose of the grab handles on the bike"!

 

That was before the raft down the river, hmmmmm.

[BereIsland]

Steve

[RBertalotto]

Don't worry about a little play......Folks on this board will tell you that statistically these final drive issues are not a concern. It only happens to an infinitesimal amount of bikes and every single one of them run right over to this board to report it so it makes it look like a much bigger problem....

 

And BMW is stepping up to the plate and repairing all of them gratis, since its so few that suffer this issue.....

 

(Man, I crack myself up at times....)

 

Sorry, hope it all works out for you.......

[dhanson]

Well, believe it or not, morning after the play is less than half what it was yesterday??? Still like 1/8", and black gunk/oil came out when I washed the hub from the right side?

 

Going into the shop this morning. FIX PLEASE!

[KMG_365]

Don't worry, David. It's probably not the final drive.

 

I hope they fix it timely and free . . . and I wish I could tell Jean that the R1200RT's don't do that, but . . . .

 

It was great meeting you both on the Pied Piper run and we hope to see you again soon on ANY bike!

[SageRider]

David,

Just now reading this post...

Hope it all works out well.

So glad you are getting to experience BMW's legendary reliability (NOT!).

I enjoyed riding and talking with both you and Jean!

(and any guy who would push Jean out of a raft would most assuredly need his head examined! )

[JustJean]

RT's don't have this problem! Hmmmm.....

 

David is really a nice guy he just likes to have his fun!

[dhanson]

Had a little dentist surgery today, so laying low for 24 hours. Did go by BMW dealer, the service man said my best bet to get it in was to call roadservice.

 

Will borrow a trailer and figure a way to tie it down and take in tomorrow.

 

I honestly don't think it is the FD, but the deal that mates to the splines and bolts to the wheel is suspect. There is major slack and looseness. Tried to ride it in this morning, but thought better of it after 1 block.

 

Killing me to not tear it down and look and see what is going on. I hate waiting, ha.

[Bud]

Had a little dentist surgery today, so laying low for 24 hours. Did go by BMW dealer, the service man said my best bet to get it in was to call roadservice.

 

Will borrow a trailer and figure a way to tie it down and take in tomorrow.

 

I honestly don't think it is the FD, but the deal that mates to the splines and bolts to the wheel is suspect. There is major slack and looseness. Tried to ride it in this morning, but thought better of it after 1 block.

 

Killing me to not tear it down and look and see what is going on. I hate waiting, ha.

 

All good things come to those who wait.

[RFW]

Just went up on center stand to wash bike, rear wheel is loose like 1/4" side to side, top to bottom. Rear axle is solid, but wheel assembly is loose on axle.

 

Believe there is a large bearing there that lost preload

Bearings do not "lose their preload". Typically they undergo a process known as brinelling, where the balls tear out bits of metal from the surface of the races, thus increasing the play in the bearing. What has also been common in BMW rear drives, is disintegration of the retainer that holds the balls in position, and this is what appears to have happened in your case, given the HUGE amount of slop in the wheel.

 

If it is the KGT you are referring to, there IS NO preload in the new BMW rear drive assemblies! In these new designs (the rear ends with the big hole down the center), there is a large ball bearing to support the wheel, and outboard of the pinion gear there is a needle bearing (not a taper roller as in old designs) to support the shaft. THe needle bearing cannot supply any axial force to preload the big ball bearing. For whatever reason, preloading is not necessary.

 

Disintegration of the ball retainer is an old problem, and it is very disturbing if it is still a problem since it has little to do with actual wear since ball retainers should last forever. In the older design of rear drive, BMW switched from a 17 ball bearing made by SKF to a 19 ball version of the same bearing made by FAG. The increased number of balls in the same sized bearing left insufficient room for a robust retainer, and retainer disintegration problems were experienced. At some point they switched back to the 17 ball version. Not sure what they are using in the new designs.

[dhanson]

Just dropped off the bike at the shop. Mechanic thinks the pressed on spline flange with a circlip to hold (wheel bolts to it) is gone. Most likely new FD to fix.

 

I could have been easier on it in retrospect, but what fun would that have been? Hard accel out of turns and hard decel using downshifting and engine compression to setup for turns.

 

Pushed 3 digits on the slab to pass and leave traffic.

[dhanson]

Just dropped bike off at dealer. Appears flange which is pressed on and held with circlip is gone, no telling what else, probably new FD under warranty to fix, be over 7 days wait, ugggg.

[marcopolo]

Just dropped bike off at dealer. Appears flange which is pressed on and held with circlip is gone, no telling what else, probably new FD under warranty to fix, be over 7 days wait, ugggg.

 

That's pretty much what happened to my RT. The two sets of splines (on axle tube, and on the rotor flange) mate with a compression fit and a snap ring. If these splines, for whatever reason, start grinding each other down, you get play in the rear wheel, and eventually residue on the wheel. There is only one fix (it's spelled out quite clearly in a TSB for the R12GS) -- replace the Final Drive, and likely the rear rotor and lug nuts. I'd specifically mention the rotor if I were you. I did, and they agreed it too had to be replaced, along with all lug nuts. BMW obviously agreed too, as they had to authorize the warranty repair.

 

Seven days to fix; are there no FDs in stock? Mine took two days in Salt Lake City in July. The parts were delivered overnight from California.

[Bud]

Just dropped bike off at dealer. Appears flange which is pressed on and held with circlip is gone, no telling what else, probably new FD under warranty to fix, be over 7 days wait, ugggg.

 

Seven days without bikes makes one weak.

[JustJean]

7 days is not bad concidering David just had dental surgery on Tuesday and is suppose to be relaxing for about 2 weeks..........

[dhanson]

Yeah, I just got in the regular secheduled 6000 maintence line, no rush, I have golf!

[dhanson]

Take me off the "Replace FD" list! Just a simple rear flange failure. Looked like lots of corrosion in the splines. Sounds to me like they didn't clean CNC cutting oil out or used wrong lubricant before pressing on the flange.

 

Part should be in this week, hopefully, I want to RIDE!

[marcopolo]

Take me off the "Replace FD" list! Just a simple rear flange failure. Looked like lots of corrosion in the splines. Sounds to me like they didn't clean CNC cutting oil out or used wrong lubricant before pressing on the flange.

 

Part should be in this week, hopefully, I want to RIDE!

 

Are they not going to replace the final drive? Have a look below at the text of the TSB on this type of failure. TSB was for the R12GS:

 

BMWMotorrad

USA

Service Information Bulletin

Subject: Bearing play at the rear wheel drive

Model:

Details:

Aftersales

Solution:

Dealer Operation/

General Manager

Sales-

Motorcycles

Sales -

Used Motorcycles

Business Manager

(F&I)

Service Parts & Accessories Administration

Date: February 2005

Bulletin #33 001 05 (011)

Source: 33 74/2004

BMW Motorrad USA Service and Technical

Contact: Respective Aftersales Business Consultant

R 1200 GS

1: In the rear drive of the R 1200 GS the ring gear is supported by two types of bearings:

one floating bearing and one fixed bearing without preload. Inherent in this design

is a small amount of bearing play at the rear wheel. With all components manufactured

and assembled to stated tolerances it is possible that play in these bearings can be felt

and measured at the rear wheel. This type of bearing play has no effect on motorcycle

handling or on the durability of the bearings.

2: There is a possibility of play developing between the splined wheel flange (P/N 33 17

7 668 659) and the axle tube of some motorcycles manufactured prior to 08/2004, US

VIN# ZL 76187.

1: In the event of a customer complaint, an inspection and measurement of rear wheel

bearing play is to be performed as described below. With cold components the total

play (back and forth travel) allowable at the wheel rim edge is 1mm(maximum). Refer to

the R 1200 GS Repair Manual CD for measuring procedures as well as temperature definition

of "cold components". Replace the entire rear-wheel drive assembly if the play

exceeds specifications.

2: If the complaint is "bearing play at the rear wheel" you must first check that the

splined flange is secure before performing the measurement noted in point #1. When

rocking the rear wheel back and forth, you must first make sure there is no movement

between the wheel flange, the rear wheel and the axle tube.

If play is noticeable between these components you must replace the entire rear wheel

drive assembly (complete with flange). Replacing the splined wheel flange only will not

solve the situation, because in all probability the splines on the axle tube will have suffered

some degree of wear as well. If you are in doubt, you are requested to contact your

respective Aftersales Business Consultant.

Warranty: Covered under the terms of the New Motorcycle Limited Warranty.

Important Note: Screw 1 is a drain

plug for repair-related oil changes; it is

not for checking the oil level. When filling

the rear drive assembly with oil,

pour in the defined quantity (0.25 l for

initial fill, or 0.23 l for oil changes)

through the bore for the ABS sensor.

We highly recommend using BMW

Super Synthetic Gear oil. 75W 90, P/N

07 51 0 394 082

 

 

 

 

[dhanson]

Interesting info indeed. I, like them assumed that the wear and play came from the aluminum flange only and no wear on the steel axle.

 

Will print this and present to service manager.

[marcopolo]

Interesting info indeed. I, like them assumed that the wear and play came from the aluminum flange only and no wear on the steel axle.

 

Will print this and present to service manager.

 

Good idea. My FD failed on my RT in July for exactly the same reason as yours. The repair was warranty, of course, and they replaced the FD, rear brake rotor, and all lug nuts. It was all very quickly approved. The dealership acknowledged the service bulletin when I mentioned it, notwithstanding my bike is an RT.

 

I'd also suggest you ask about replacing the rotor and the lug nuts. There was no quibblle from anyone about any of this when I took mine to BMW of Salt Lake City.