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R1200xx FD Failure Rate Poll. All R1200xx Owners Please Reply!


s3steve

R1200xx FD Failure Rate.  

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the FD in my '06 went bad at 35k miles(thankfully right before the end of the warranty). The new FD has a drain plug at the bottom. I change the fluid at regular intervals and use the new reccommended amount(180ml, see hex&cam). It should be fine, I think the "lifetime" fluid was a bad idea.

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No problems with my final drive on my 06' R1200ST at 21,000 miles other than a slight weeping of oil at the outside seal before the revised oil level. I did have a problem voting on your survey though. Once I log on to our site I have no option to vote. When not logged in I see the voting selections but, promted to log on before my vote can be recorded. Has BMW engineering now entered our polls? :eek:

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No problems with my final drive on my 06' R1200ST at 21,000 miles other than a slight weeping of oil at the outside seal before the revised oil level. I did have a problem voting on your survey though. Once I log on to our site I have no option to vote. When not logged in I see the voting selections but, promted to log on before my vote can be recorded. Has BMW engineering now entered our polls? :eek:

 

You probably voted in 2007 when this was started. You can not vote again, or change your vote. So, for instance if Ken Deline voted all ok back then, he could not now record his FD failure.

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I didn't read every post in this thread so forgive me if this has already been mentioned.

 

The problem with the design of the poll is that the respondents are self selected. It is quite possible that people who have had final drive failures are more interested in the problem and more likely to read the thread and respond to the poll. Or maybe the opposite, people who haven't had a problem wonder what the odds are and participate. Either way it means that the results are very unlikely to represent the actual rate of failures. So while it is always interesting to see numbers like this, they don't tell us much about the odds.

 

A slightly better, though more difficult approach, would be to find out, for every 1200 owner on the board, whether they have had a FD failure. But even this wouldn't be statistically valid since people with problems might be more likely to subscribe to the board than people without. Lots of noobies come here because they have a question.

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I didn't read every post in this thread so forgive me if this has already been mentioned.

 

The problem with the design of the poll is that the respondents are self selected. It is quite possible that people who have had final drive failures are more interested in the problem and more likely to read the thread and respond to the poll. Or maybe the opposite, people who haven't had a problem wonder what the odds are and participate. Either way it means that the results are very unlikely to represent the actual rate of failures. So while it is always interesting to see numbers like this, they don't tell us much about the odds.

 

A slightly better, though more difficult approach, would be to find out, for every 1200 owner on the board, whether they have had a FD failure. But even this wouldn't be statistically valid since people with problems might be more likely to subscribe to the board than people without. Lots of noobies come here because they have a question.

 

Don't take polls seriously, they're just a way to pass time...like sports.

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Dave_zoom_zoom

Ha Ha---I can't but be amused to see some folks who use that old "so far" caveat in their reply.

 

To me it's like saying "Well I'm 88 years old and I haven't died so far." But of course this problem could occur at any time.

 

(as could the wheels fall off my bike) :D

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Dave_zoom_zoom
Over on the R1200C forum a member who is a trained BMW mechanic with his own shop indicates that:

 

"it really is unfortunate that BMW decided to "do away" with the breather on the rear drive for the 1200 series. This was probably the only real mechanical problem with these bikes.

 

Without a breather, when pressure goes up in the rear drive (by getting hot) the pressure has no where to go. What will happen is the pressure will find the weakest link and push itself out there (usually the pinion seal). Not just air get's pushed out but oil too (we all know what happens when you run a mechanical object out of oil).

 

Both crown seals and pinion seals have been been a problem because of not having a breather. I don't really think our rear drives are bad, just a case that has been poorly designed, without a breather."

 

Make sense? Does to me. Makes me want to drill a small breather hole somewhere......

 

Gael

 

Me three! I want to drill and tap a small hole near the top of the drive. Install a fitting and a flexable tube that would run all uphill to a location under the seat. That way any oil that might enter the tube would just drip back into the drive. It just could be the answer!!!! :)

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My only disagreement is this:

 

"(we all know what happens when you run a mechanical object out of oil). "

 

A little smudge of oil outside a seal does not mean running out of oil. I think there is more to it than that.

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59,000 miles Final Drive failed.

 

Saw a write up of repairing a final drive, with pictures, have not been able to locate this thread.

Do not remember if it was here or another web site.

 

Would appriciate the help.

 

Thank You

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2007 R12RT with 13K. No FD issues. Did the 12K myself and the FD oil came out clear. Put 180 ml back in. No wheel wobble. No fuel strip problem, probably because I keep the tank full, always gas up at the end of a trip.

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...No fuel strip problem, probably because I keep the tank full, always gas up at the end of a trip.

 

Hmmm. I also have my original strip and tend to keep the fuel tank near empty when I park the bike, unless it's inconvenient to to so. I figure that the strips are always stored dry before they are installed, so storing it "dry" on the bike (as opposed to soaking it in an organic solvent long term) might help to preserve it. I have no other rational basis for this practice but my logic seems like it sorta might be right. In truth, it probably makes no difference either way, but maybe you know something about fuel strips that I don't.

 

This is off topic, so I guess we can save this discussion for another thread.

 

Jay

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05 R1200RT with 87,000 miles. No FD issues.

In fact the only issue I have every had is with one front abs sensor failure. I am the original owner.

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05 R1200RT with 87,000 miles. No FD issues.

In fact the only issue I have every had is with one front abs sensor failure. I am the original owner.

 

Way cool!

 

I just went over 31,000 miles this morning on my 08RT with ZERO FD issues.

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  • 4 weeks later...

We'll never know what's really going on at BMW as it pertains to FD failures, what little info we do have leads me to believe they have a serious quality problem. Assuming the FD's are made by a supplier, the following applies:

 

BMW's SUPPLIED PARTS QUALITY MANAGEMENT document (https://b2bpapp6.bmw.com/public/en/gdz/logistik/ersatzteile/qualitaet/handbuch_qm_kaufteile/Supplied_Parts_Quality_Management.pdf) states exactly what they require of their suppliers.

 

In particular, starting on page 18, they list acceptable defect rates in the form of mfg process statistics: Cmk, Ppk, and Cpk. For those not familiar with modern quality systems, these parameters equate to defect rates measured in PPM (parts per million). Their requirement for a minimum Cpk at 1.33 equals a defect rate of 64ppm, or .0064% (6 sigma). In this day and age, defect rates over .25% just don't cut it!

 

Current FD failures (be it 3% or even 1%) indicate they are (or should be) in the process of finding a new supplier or (more likely) have concluded the design is at fault and the supplier has been given a pass. Either way, their system dictates the current FD's be 100% inspected/tested at both the supplier and at the factory - and they still appear to fail at an unacceptable rate.

 

Some more industry numbers for comparison:

Defect PPM Expectations - GM Purchasing/ Supplier Quality 2003

Stampings : 66 (=.007%)

Mechanical Control Systems: 113 (=.011%)

Bearings: 21 (=.002%)

 

Oh, the FD on my '07 RT is still going @56k (new seal @25k). However, I'm on my 3rd fuel gauge, 3rd ignition "ring", 2nd rear trans seal, 2nd rear shock, and 2nd set of front rotors. Other than that, it's been a great bike.

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