Painful indictment against BMW after the IBR

[OlGeezer]

Interestingly, rear wheel (final drive/crown) bearings are supposedly a "wear item" that are supposed to be checked regularly and replaced as needed . . . I'm just sayin' . . . .

 

That's no longer true Jamie with the 1200s thereby increasing expectations even more.

[KMG_365]

Interestingly, rear wheel (final drive/crown) bearings are supposedly a "wear item" that are supposed to be checked regularly and replaced as needed . . . I'm just sayin' . . . .

 

That's no longer true Jamie with the 1200s thereby increasing expectations even more.

Yeah, that's where BMW is shooting themselves in the foot even more--the R1200 is (was) supposed to have a "lifetime" final drive, but they consider the lifetime 36K miles and very few R1150's final drives went south in 36K miles. If you were one of the "odd" ones who actually rode your bike over that mileage in less than three years then all bets were off and you were on your own--though they would be happy to sell you the repair . . . .

[KMG_365]

The fact that some do not fail

 

That's "most", not "some"

True, but . . . to be fair: the fact is that "most" BMW's are not ridden to the point of failure . . . yet "most" folks still believe that BMW makes bikes capable of going longer distances without the failures present in any other brand. IMO this is "partly" true. The top end of the Kawasaki 1000-P cop bikes the CHO used to use were rebuilt once at 25K miles, again at 50k miles and then retired at 60k miles and were barely saleable--not so with the BMW's--the top end of both Leslie's and my R1150RT's are still going strong at almost 130k miles and the journal bearings in the bottom end should last longer than I will.

[RRainman]

There is an awful lot of debate over the extent of this problem. It is senseless. The fact remains that there are an inordinate amount of low time failures of the rear drive. Mine failed at less than 6,000 miles. That is a problem. Period.

 

I am in Safety for a very large, high risk company. If we identify a hazard that may result in the loss of human life, we are all over a proactive solution. I would expect a big company like BMW to do the same.

 

With all of the warranty work they are having to pay for for these failures, I am sure that they have identified the issue and now we have to see what they are going to do about it.

[OlGeezer]

but they consider the lifetime 36K miles

 

Where did you read this?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

If we identify a hazard that may result in the loss of human life, we are all over a proactive solution. I would expect a big company like BMW to do the same.

 

I don't get this. Where is the hazard that may result in the loss of human life?

A bearing fails and might, just might, compromise rear tire traction with the loss of oil. Mine didn't as the oil really did not start coming out until after the bike stopped. The wheel doesn't fall off, the handling is no worse than what you would get if you had a flat, in fact, that is what I thought mine was.

 

Getting all dramatic about this issue does not, IMHO, contribute much. It is a wallet threatening issue, not a life threating one.

[Switz]

As an informed consumer who is powerless over BMW, I purchased the additional 4 year, 100,000 mile warranty from the dealer when I bought the R1200RT. I will probably never get to the mileage because of the number of bikes that I own, but the extended time limit is reasonable and will increase the resale value of the bike.

 

I also purchased the same coverge for the R1200C and plan to for the R1150R, if it does not sell soon, as the factory time was/is about to expire.

 

After reading several of the different BMW related forums and seeing the common threads concerning final drive failure across nearly all models (except the chain drive bikes, hmm...), I reached the conclusion this was the best I could do to protect the investment. On the Harley and Goldwing bikes, I also have seven year, unlimited milage coverage. In all instances, this is mechanical coverage that does not cover cosmetic items like paint and chrome or service items like clutch and brakes. I figured that if the premium was less than the cost of an engine or transmission or final drive (both Gold Wing and BMW), I was ahead of the game.

[Marty Hill]

Bill and Ed,

 

Many thanks for your replies/a little sanity goes a long way. Of course the panic is kind of funny as are the made up statements.

[RRainman]

If we identify a hazard that may result in the loss of human life, we are all over a proactive solution. I would expect a big company like BMW to do the same.

 

I don't get this. Where is the hazard that may result in the loss of human life?

A bearing fails and might, just might, compromise rear tire traction with the loss of oil. Mine didn't as the oil really did not start coming out until after the bike stopped. The wheel doesn't fall off, the handling is no worse than what you would get if you had a flat, in fact, that is what I thought mine was.

 

Getting all dramatic about this issue does not, IMHO, contribute much. It is a wallet threatening issue, not a life threating one.

 

The rotor on my rear wheel had eaten through the brake pads and was eating in to the caliper. It was probably not long before I had hydraulic fluid all over my rear tire. If that happens in a turn, you're going down...hence the potential loss of life.

 

There is also the potential for a rear wheel lock up, resulting in a high side and potential loss of life.

 

If you want to be naive as to the potential of rear drive failures, plod along through life with your blinders on.

 

This isn't being dramatic, or panicing. This is a statement of potential risks resulting from a failure of the rear drive.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

If your rear drive bearing failed to the extent that the brake rotor had eaten through the brake pad and its steel backing plate and was eating on the caliper and you never noticed any wobble or ill handling, I would put that down to rider error. You mean to tell me you never noticed anything funny and didn't stop to investigate?

 

As to potential rear wheel lockup, I rather doubt it. Start by looking at the diameter of the bearing and then consider the momentum of 800 lbs of rider and bike at speed. It just ain't gonna happen.

 

I don't have any blinders on, I do, however, have more than 50 years experience wrenching on stuff, including motorcycles and many different forms of mechanical devices including automotive and industrial drive lines, all with various forms of ball or roller bearings. In no case that I can recall, has a bearing failure caused the drive or driven components to come to an abrupt stop if the equipment was running. It may not have been capable of starting again in the case of the lower (5-15HP) drives, the 800 HP printing press drives had no problems.

 

You keep talking potential, I'm talking real world. If potential was the issue, none of us would be riding our potentially fatal motorcycles, after all, they won't even stand up unaided.

[Twisties]

If we identify a hazard that may result in the loss of human life, we are all over a proactive solution. I would expect a big company like BMW to do the same.

 

I don't get this. Where is the hazard that may result in the loss of human life?

A bearing fails and might, just might, compromise rear tire traction with the loss of oil. Mine didn't as the oil really did not start coming out until after the bike stopped. The wheel doesn't fall off, the handling is no worse than what you would get if you had a flat, in fact, that is what I thought mine was.

 

Getting all dramatic about this issue does not, IMHO, contribute much. It is a wallet threatening issue, not a life threating one.

 

Sorry, riders are reporting wheel wobble, loss of braking control secondary to oil spillage and wheel wobble, and fire. Several riders have reported close calls under those conditions. That no one has been killed to date (and would we know... since that rider will not be reporting on the web?) is no indication that this condition is safe.

 

Most people consider a tire failure an unsafe condition, and I am reasonably certain that tire failures have resulted in injury and loss of life. That you have the skills to survive and are confident in a tire failure situation does not mean that all riders under all conditions do so.

 

It is a principle of safety management that you respond to the close calls to prevent an injury.

 

It is a wallet issue, but as well people are losing their precious vacation time, having their trips ruined, etc. To me, a vacation costs far more than an FD.

[Twisties]

Of course the panic is kind of funny as are the made up statements.

 

What are you talking about? I haven't seen the slightest signs of panic. Please provide examples. Also lets see some made up statements.

 

You are entitled to think this is no issue. I have no problem with that. If that is the case, fine, say so and be done. But this kind amorphous ad hominem attack is uncalled for and irresponsible.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Wheel wobbles, you stop to investigate. It ain't that hard. Loss of brakes? So coast to a stop, or use the front, they still work. One fire and that of still uncertain origin.

 

As to rider skill, well, it really doesn't take a whole bunch of skill or awareness to recognize that something ain't right back there. A suggestion for a new rider might be to go out, when it is time to replace the tires anyway, and lower the rear tire pressure to 15 lbs or so and then ride the bike and see how it feels. Due caution and an empty parking lot may not be a bad idea. This way it won't come as a total shock. FWIW, I only ran about 4 to 4.5 PSI in the back tire of my drag bike and, granted, it was mostly in a straight line, but the thing was pretty stable at speeds far in excess of what any BMW is capable of.

[Agent_Orange]

I think I'll just stay in bed 24/7 and hope a plane, tornado, hurricane, or whatever doesn't take me out!

[RRainman]

If your rear drive bearing failed to the extent that the brake rotor had eaten through the brake pad and its steel backing plate and was eating on the caliper and you never noticed any wobble or ill handling, I would put that down to rider error. You mean to tell me you never noticed anything funny and didn't stop to investigate?

 

As to potential rear wheel lockup, I rather doubt it. Start by looking at the diameter of the bearing and then consider the momentum of 800 lbs of rider and bike at speed. It just ain't gonna happen.

 

I don't have any blinders on, I do, however, have more than 50 years experience wrenching on stuff, including motorcycles and many different forms of mechanical devices including automotive and industrial drive lines, all with various forms of ball or roller bearings. In no case that I can recall, has a bearing failure caused the drive or driven components to come to an abrupt stop if the equipment was running. It may not have been capable of starting again in the case of the lower (5-15HP) drives, the 800 HP printing press drives had no problems.

 

You keep talking potential, I'm talking real world. If potential was the issue, none of us would be riding our potentially fatal motorcycles, after all, they won't even stand up unaided.

 

Wrong again. First, I have roughly 500,000 miles of riding and no less than 5,000 track miles on sportbikes. I am a very experienced rider and I am intimately familiar with how bikes feel under all sorts of conditions including flat tires, hot tar snakes, low tire pressure, etc.. And yes...I did notice. That's how it wound up at the dealership.

 

What makes the FD failure concerning to me is that there was less than 1/2" play side-to-side, and it still wore in to the caliper. I have seen it yet, put that is what the dealer has told me.

 

Real world? OK, let's wait until people are killed and then react to the unsafe condition.

 

Hell....If it is not a big issue, why don't you load one of your grandkids on the back and go for a ride across the country. Not a big deal, right?!

 

Why is it that there is a debate amoungst BMW riders on this subject? Why are those that have not had it happen being so defensive? Consider yourself lucky, and support those that have had it happen as it might be you next.

[David]

Real world? OK, let's wait until people are killed and then react to the unsafe condition.

 

Okay.

 

Hell....If it is not a big issue, why don't you load one of your grandkids on the back and go for a ride across the country. Not a big deal, right?!

 

Not a big deal at all. I take my wife and little kids on the bike all the time and will continue doing so.

 

Why is it that there is a debate amoungst BMW riders on this subject? Why are those that have not had it happen being so defensive? Consider yourself lucky, and support those that have had it happen as it might be you next.

 

Who's being defensive? You sound like the one up in arms.

 

My opinion is simply that you are overreacting to the scope of the problem and to the seriousness of the problem if it does occur.

[RRainman]

Real world? OK, let's wait until people are killed and then react to the unsafe condition.

 

Okay.

 

Hell....If it is not a big issue, why don't you load one of your grandkids on the back and go for a ride across the country. Not a big deal, right?!

 

Not a big deal at all. I take my wife and little kids on the bike all the time and will continue doing so.

 

Why is it that there is a debate amoungst BMW riders on this subject? Why are those that have not had it happen being so defensive? Consider yourself lucky, and support those that have had it happen as it might be you next.

 

Who's being defensive? You sound like the one up in arms.

 

My opinion is simply that you are overreacting to the scope of the problem and to the seriousness of the problem if it does occur.

 

Okay? That's idiotic.

You'll ride across country with your wife on the back with a failed drive? You must not love her.

Over-reacting? I'm not over-reacting at all. I have simply stated the potential hazards and outcomes. I have said nothing to the likeliness of those outcomes. Am I going to still ride the hell out of my R12RT when it is fixed? You're damn right I am. Will I ride 2-up once it is fixed? Yup.

 

I am done with this useless thread.

[BobsST]

"there was less than 1/2" play side-to-side" - Wow - mm of play is a concern. A 1/2" of play side to side is a major problem!!

[ghaverkamp]

I am done with this useless thread.

 

One down...

[David]

You'll ride across country with your wife on the back with a failed drive? You must not love her.

 

Who said anything about doing it on a failed drive? [Where's that scratching head emoticon.] You're wound up about this. Take a deep breath and put it in context. Oh, and stick around a bit and learn the place before you run your mouth and say something you'll regret later. I love my wife dearly.

 

I am done with this useless thread.

 

It's not useless--just a bit reactionary. The truth bubbles to the surface when reasonable people discuss things. Stick around and let's figure this out!

[steve.foote]

I am done with this useless thread.

 

One down...

 

 

Substitute "servo brakes" for "final drive" and I think those of us who have been around for a while have seen this play before.

 

Wait'n for the fat lady...

[tallman]

As you wish...

[ghaverkamp]

Substitute "servo brakes" for "final drive" and I think those of us who have been around for a while have seen this play before.

 

I am so glad I played no role in perpetuating those earlier threads.

[Francois_Dumas]

This thread is headin' south...... oh wait, that's where I was going too...... dang !!

[russell_bynum]

My opinion is simply that you are overreacting to the scope of the problem and to the seriousness of the problem if it does occur.

 

I agree.

 

When mine failed, there was an obvious wobble that I felt in the rear. It didn't do anything with the rear brake, but if it had, that's no big deal...you shouldn't use the rear for real stopping power anyway.

 

I did hear of one final drive that locked up when it failed...BUT...the rider had several hundred miles of grinding noise and progressively more severe bind/release that finally just locked up. He was aware of what was going on, reduced speed, and nursed the bike as far as he could before it finally failed.

 

Hell....If it is not a big issue, why don't you load one of your grandkids on the back and go for a ride across the country. Not a big deal, right?!

 

I experieced a final drive failure on my R1100RT. Two, actually...though the second one was caused by a dealership mechanic screwup (Which the dealership dealt with honorably and promptly.) so I don't count that against BMW. But I do know what a final drive failure means since I've experienced two of them.

 

I don't currently own a BMW motorcycle, but that has nothing to do with the final drive problem. However, my wife still has a BMW motorcycle with the exact same final drive design that my RT had. I do check for free play when I'm servicing the bike, or when I'm checking tire pressure, but outside of that, I don't give it a second thought. I'd put her on the bike tomorrow and send her off across the country on it. Final drive failure would be VERY low on my list of concerns in that situation.

[RBertalotto]

C'mon, I'm a member of the V-Strom rapid forum just like you. Don't sit there and imply the V-Strom has no issues...at least with a straight face. I invite anyone interested to check it out at http://11109.rapidforum.com/area=97 and you will find just as many problems with the V-Strom as any other bike. Surge? Oh, yeah. Sensitive to throttle body sync? You betcha. Drive sprocket mis-alignment? How many mm was that? 2? I can't recall. Yeah, I rode mine thousands of miles too, no problems. Just as thousands of BMW riders have ridden their motors for thousands of miles too with no problems.

 

 

All of these issue have to do with the DL1000, and most have to do with early DL1000. None of these issues manifest themselves in the DL650, which is the bike I referred to.........Once again, I'll reiterate...It's built by God...It's perfect! (except for a poorly designed windscreen if you are over 5'10"....God must be a short guy...)

[Linz]

Forgive me, I've just joined the thread but how do I check my FD to see if I may have issues of which (at this stage), I am unaware?

 

Freeplay whilst checking tire pressure? This is rocking the wheel forward and back or side to side? Forgive my lack of skill please?

 

R1150RT (2002)

 

Linz

[russell_bynum]

Forgive me, I've just joined the thread but how do I check my FD to see if I may have issues of which (at this stage), I am unaware?

 

Freeplay whilst checking tire pressure? This is rocking the wheel forward and back or side to side? Forgive my lack of skill please?

 

R1150RT (2002)

 

Linz

 

Other people who are smarter than me (that makes for a pretty big group) can probably tell you better.

 

What I do is first look for oil seepage around the boot at the leading edge of the FD, as well as on the wheel side. Then I grab the wheel (bike on the centerstand with the rear wheel off the ground) at 3 and 9 and try to rock it back and forth...like the rudder of a boat. Then I grab it at 12 and 6 and try to rock it that way. If it moves, I start worrying.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I would add one other check, Russell. A turn or two of the wheel with the tips of the fingers on the center of the hub. A mechanic's stethoscope against the final drive might be better. Based on my failure and my experience with bearings in general, you might just hear/feel a grumble in that bearing long before the situation becomes critical (think total failure of the bearing with the attendant wobble).

 

In my case, the cage was all twisted up and not all the balls were present and those that were were pretty beat up. I'm pretty sure that had I performed either of those tests before my bike developed tracking problems, I would have caught the failure and saved myself the 70 mile tow and subsequent loss of a couple of days, no monetary cost to me, BMW picked up the whole tab for the repair and AAA took care of my hotel and rental car.

 

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't go about this kind of testing every time I went for a ride no more than I check my tire pressure on a daily basis. It is easy enough to do that, if I was still riding a BMW, I wouldn't hesitate to do it once a week or so. A bearing failure is almost never an instant thing, it starts with a little damage and grows to the big bang. Not every case, of course, but most of them will take quite a few turns in pretty bad shape before failing to the extent that balls fall out. The noise will have been present for quite some time.

[T__]

BMW + what = final drive failures.. This we don’t know for sure..

 

On the iron butt BMW failures we don’t know what happened there either or in the past months previous to the failures.. Were they carrying extra fuel,, fuel/water tanks, lots of extra gear, etc?

 

If those iron butt bikes & other BMW bikes with final drive failures haven’t exceeded the manufacturers rear loading recommendations then they seem to have a problem.. Who knows maybe they were running overweight..

 

What comes to mind here is I personally know of very few BMW final drive failures. Obviously there are some that we read about but there doesn’t seem to be many from my area. I did run into a couple a while ago while on the road & they were complaining to me about their second final drive failure (bearing problems I believe).. Not sure in how many miles but the bike was an 04 RT.. I had to bite my tongue while listening to them bad mouth their bike & BMW.. She had to go at least 350lbs & he was every bit of that + a little.. They also had the side bags full & the rear case stuffed.. I’m betting they were traveling a bit over the rated GVW of that bike.. Probably would have been over weight in a small truck also..

 

Should BMW design & test for that? Maybe offer a heavy duty rear final drive (maybe dual rear tires also)..

 

We really need more info here on the failure parameters & bike loading..

 

Final drive (reported) failures on the BMW’s are in my book about the worst type of failures as they most often leave an instant walk home condition.. Lots of bikes have (or have had) a history of failures or a sting of certain failures but in most cases it is an annoyance type failure or a condition that will allow further travel with maybe a battery charge, adding oil, or other inconvenience.. When you are in the middle of BFE at 4 am with no way to even limp along it is a big PROBLEM..

 

Is it a bad BMW design?? Who knows,, there are other single sided swing arm bikes that don’t have final drive problems..

 

Twisty

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Well, they do, for the most part, carry extra fuel but not a whole lot. Passenger seat is replaced with a fuel cell as a rule but, the total fuel allowed on the bike, including the factory tank, may not exceed 11 gallons. So maybe 60 lbs total with the fuel cell and brackets. Most probably carry another 30 lbs or so of tools and minor spares. That is a bunch, BTW. Now add another 30 to 40 lbs for clothing and such, maybe another 30 for farkles like GPS units, aux lighting and such. Not really much more than 2 up with luggage load and I'm assuming a farily slim passenger. Should be well within the load bearing (pardon the pun) of the bike.

 

I still see this as more a design or assembly issue. One of the things that disturbs me about the design is the clearances within the bearing. By convention, most ball bearings can only be fitted with tight clearance at one dimension. Either the bore or the outer race may be a press fit but the other should be a sliding fit. In fact, fitting both races with a line on line fit is considered a no-no if the bearing is to be subjected to much loading and consequent heat and expansion of the components. Getting all this right would call for selective fit of components on the assembly. Somebody would have to measure the inner and outer dimensions of the bearings, the carrier shaft and the housing bore, size them in groups and then hand fit. A costly process to say the least. One can have bearings made with increased internal clearances to compensate for this but, precision of alignment will be lost when the bearing is cold.

 

I can think of another possibility involving lubricants and the pumping effect within the bearing. Too heavy a lube can lead to problems as can too light a one. The former can lead to the balls skidding in the race due to the friction of the lubricant, the latter can, under heavy loads, cause the oil wedge to break down and permit metal to metal contact.

 

I suspect all of the above contribute to the problem. Add to this the fact that cornering loads are not unidirectional and the angular contact bearing selected by BMW is and the potential (I don't like that word lately) is there for problems.

[eakins]

C'mon, I'm a member of the V-Strom rapid forum just like you. Don't sit there and imply the V-Strom has no issues...at least with a straight face. I invite anyone interested to check it out at http://11109.rapidforum.com/area=97 and you will find just as many problems with the V-Strom as any other bike. Surge? Oh, yeah. Sensitive to throttle body sync? You betcha. Drive sprocket mis-alignment? How many mm was that? 2? I can't recall. Yeah, I rode mine thousands of miles too, no problems. Just as thousands of BMW riders have ridden their motors for thousands of miles too with no problems.

 

 

All of these issue have to do with the DL1000, and most have to do with early DL1000. None of these issues manifest themselves in the DL650, which is the bike I referred to.........Once again, I'll reiterate...It's built by God...It's perfect! (except for a poorly designed windscreen if you are over 5'10"....God must be a short guy...)

yes indeed the 650 V has no issues. it's the energizer bunny of bikes! and so is the xr400 and with some mods so is the klr. see a pattern in my bikes? i buy what is proven dead reliable...i let you guys argue all day about your wonderfull bmwzzz while i'm out for a ride.

[Francois_Dumas]

.i let you guys argue all day about your wonderfull bmwzzz while i'm out for a ride.

 

 

Hmmmm..... don't know about that. The ONLY time my BMWz has failed me is when I forget to put the side stand up and shift into first gear......

 

Apart from that, I ride it all 4 seasons, through wind, rain, heat and cold..... knock on wood; no problem whatsoever so far... AND I ride comfortably when most other bikes are stored in sheds for the 6 bad months to pass

[EddyQ]

Seems to me, BMW would have tested the FD under lab conditions and maybe a few real-world bikes for 100K miles. I believe the failure is more complicated than first glance. BUT, the data on this forum and others shouldn't be ignored. This failure may be due to vibrations that occur at highway speed. And if these vibrations were held constant enough (IBR and very long distance touring), they would wear "waves" in the bearing. Then, the FD would quickly fail. Anyone who never drives highway have a FD failure? Maybe a bunch of riding in the rain causes higher probability of FD failures. Water does get into wheel bearings (anyone who rides dirtbikes knows that) We don't have the data. But, I keep reading, because we may find a trend here. Maybe something you guys/girls will uncover that will help prevent my '07 RT from having this issue. I love the bike. With all this data relative to FD issues, I might replace the FD if I was competing in a IBR and had 18K miles on the unit. Let's stay focused on the issue and gather data related to the FD of BMW bikes. This thread is rather thick with non-issue comments.

[LDHack]

Interesting fact; I rode IBR on a '04 R1150RT, starting with 70k on the clock. No problems.

 

A friend rode an '03 R1150RT, and had no final drive problems. He had 80k on it when starting. However, he did have a transmission input bearing seal failure, on the transmission side of the bearing. The grease in the bearing contaminated the transmission oil. He decided to ride the bike with the bearing seal failure, and finished with no mechanical issues. His transmission issue was not part of the BMW statistics.

 

Mechanical issues can be a show stopper during IBR. It's very important to have a reliable machine, because time spent with repairs is time not spend bonus hunting.

 

I am more concerned about the poor spline design and the need to pull the transmission off the engine in order to lube the clutch/transmission input spline. That's a big job, and a PIA.

 

As far as final drive is concerned, I'm thinking to replace bearings because of the miles on my RT. However, when a machine runs fine and you don't have to tear into it, that's always better.

[Yukon]

C'mon, I'm a member of the V-Strom rapid forum just like you. Don't sit there and imply the V-Strom has no issues...at least with a straight face. I invite anyone interested to check it out at http://11109.rapidforum.com/area=97 and you will find just as many problems with the V-Strom as any other bike. Surge? Oh, yeah. Sensitive to throttle body sync? You betcha. Drive sprocket mis-alignment? How many mm was that? 2? I can't recall. Yeah, I rode mine thousands of miles too, no problems. Just as thousands of BMW riders have ridden their motors for thousands of miles too with no problems.

 

 

All of these issue have to do with the DL1000, and most have to do with early DL1000. None of these issues manifest themselves in the DL650, which is the bike I referred to.........Once again, I'll reiterate...It's built by God...It's perfect! (except for a poorly designed windscreen if you are over 5'10"....God must be a short guy...)

yes indeed the 650 V has no issues. it's the energizer bunny of bikes! and so is the xr400 and with some mods so is the klr. see a pattern in my bikes? i buy what is proven dead reliable...i let you guys argue all day about your wonderfull bmwzzz while i'm out for a ride.

 

You some sort of Gadfly or something? Why do you bother with a BMW site if you don't own one? Okay, so the DL650 is God's gift to motorcyclists because it has "NO" issues, at least according to you and Roy. Well, my 1962 Vespa didn't have any issues either. Neither did my 69 Honda CL90...and as of this writing, neither do my K1200R or R1200RT. My ML320 has no issues and my Cessna 172 had non. My Schwinn 2 speed kick was a great bike with no issues and my Sector 9 skateboard has no issues....which means what?

[RideTN]

You some sort of Gadfly or something?

 

i guess i am....i have an interest particularly in the r1200rt as it is on a short list of bikes i will upgrade to when the time comes. reading about the positives and negatives contributes to both my entertainment and ultimately will assist in my decision.

[KMG_365]

You some sort of Gadfly or something? Why do you bother with a BMW site if you don't own one? Okay, so the DL650 is God's gift to motorcyclists because it has "NO" issues, at least according to you and Roy. Well, my 1962 Vespa didn't have any issues either. Neither did my 69 Honda CL90...and as of this writing, neither do my K1200R or R1200RT. My ML320 has no issues and my Cessna 172 had non. My Schwinn 2 speed kick was a great bike with no issues and my Sector 9 skateboard has no issues....which means what?

Oh please, let's not parade our intolerance so blatantly, shall we? This is not an exclusive club for BMW snobs--we're riders--and we tell it like it is . . . for each of our experiences . . . and then we draw our own conclusions. If that means leaving the BMW fold for whatever reason, it doesn't mean they have to turn in their keys to the executive washroom. You would do better to learn to filter what you read (here and in general) a bit more and recognize some of the dross for what it is and not let it derail the conversation.

 

BTW, I've got 44k miles on my (replaced) FD: with my wife on the back, loaded down with baggage, riding coast to coast, 4000 miles into a 6000+ mile trip and no problems so far!

 

[OlGeezer]

BTW, I've got 44k miles on my (replaced) FD: with my wife on the back, loaded down with baggage, riding coast to coast, 4000 miles into a 6000+ mile trip and no problems so far!

 

 

[Mr_Pheer]

 

thats scary

[BrianT]

That looks exactly like my back wheel on my 2000 RT after a Death Valley run. FD kept puking FD fluid all over the rear wheel making for a slippery ride. Would only do it going up in elevation as the fluid would expand. Kept refilling the FD when I'd come back down in elevation so no damage, just very slippery. Another thanks to Fernando for following me home to L.A. to make sure I got there on a slippery wheel like that.

[russell_bynum]

 

thats scary

 

That's what mine looked like the second time it failed.

 

Brian, do you remember what oil you had in there? When we were in Colorado in July, Kenny's Final Drive starting puking oil out of the breather. He was using RedLine oil, and Mark reported that he experienced that problem a bunch on Kristine's RS, but only with the RedLine oil.

[BrianT]

That's what mine looked like the second time it failed.

 

Brian, do you remember what oil you had in there? When we were in Colorado in July, Kenny's Final Drive starting puking oil out of the breather. He was using RedLine oil, and Mark reported that he experienced that problem a bunch on Kristine's RS, but only with the RedLine oil.

I doubt it was Redline in my RT. It was serviced by Irv Seaver BMW so whatever BMW recommended their dealers used at that time.

[Firefight911]

4000 miles into a 6000+ mile trip and no problems so far!

 

 

Better start diggin' around for that alternator belt there big boy!!!

 

Why dost thou tempt the Gods so??????

 

Still wishin' I was off one wing!!!

 

H's and K's!

[Bud]

C'mon, I'm a member of the V-Strom rapid forum just like you. Don't sit there and imply the V-Strom has no issues...at least with a straight face. I invite anyone interested to check it out at http://11109.rapidforum.com/area=97 and you will find just as many problems with the V-Strom as any other bike. Surge? Oh, yeah. Sensitive to throttle body sync? You betcha. Drive sprocket mis-alignment? How many mm was that? 2? I can't recall. Yeah, I rode mine thousands of miles too, no problems. Just as thousands of BMW riders have ridden their motors for thousands of miles too with no problems.

 

 

All of these issue have to do with the DL1000, and most have to do with early DL1000. None of these issues manifest themselves in the DL650, which is the bike I referred to.........Once again, I'll reiterate...It's built by God...It's perfect! (except for a poorly designed windscreen if you are over 5'10"....God must be a short guy...)

yes indeed the 650 V has no issues. it's the energizer bunny of bikes! and so is the xr400 and with some mods so is the klr. see a pattern in my bikes? i buy what is proven dead reliable...i let you guys argue all day about your wonderfull bmwzzz while i'm out for a ride.

 

You some sort of Gadfly or something? Why do you bother with a BMW site if you don't own one? Okay, so the DL650 is God's gift to motorcyclists because it has "NO" issues, at least according to you and Roy. Well, my 1962 Vespa didn't have any issues either. Neither did my 69 Honda CL90...and as of this writing, neither do my K1200R or R1200RT. My ML320 has no issues and my Cessna 172 had non. My Schwinn 2 speed kick was a great bike with no issues and my Sector 9 skateboard has no issues....which means what?

 

Mr Bill is a former BMW owner and a heck of a nice guy to boot.

 

While you are fairly new to this forum with 44 posts, you might notice he has over 1,500 so I would suggest the is not a Gadfly by any stretch of the imagination.

 

OTOH I don't know if he sold his BMW underwear when he sold his bike.