Why does my Butt Burn?

[hopz]

No, this is not another a joke thread. Yes, I am serious.

 

I have a new to me R1200RT, and of course it has the stock seat. After about 45 minutes to an hour my butt burns. Why?

 

I am not asking about custom seats, nor about modifications to the stock seat. I am not asking about how to gain relief, or about frequency of stops etc. I am curious about the physiology of the matter, and I want to get to the bottom of it.

 

Is it a nerve-thing or a circulation thing? Is it too much blood in the area or not enough? Is it trying to support my weight on too small a surface?

 

What causes the burn?

[Bud]

[blkvelvt]

What happens in Las Vegas, stays in Las Vegas.

[WURTY]

Oh this is too good to pass up

Why does my butt burn ?

1. Habinero sause

2. friction

3. not using condoms

4. a long meeting with your supervisor

5. red light runners

6. overdrawn at the bank

7. mother-in-law stays too long

8.realizing that your 20,000 dollar motorcycle is uncomfortable

 

Somebody shut me up !!!

[Ken H.]

Two things (in addition to the mentioned Monkey Butt powder) come to mind.

 

First ditch any cotton you are wearing. It's a bacteria paradise down there.

 

Also consider your riding position. Are you riding as if sitting in a chair with all your weight on your butt? If so, get leaned forward at the waist more, butt tucked back more, your weight up off your tail bone and carried more in your thighs and legs. Get some movement happening between your posterior and the seat.

[flyingreg]

Your butt burns because for most people the seat does not provide adequate support in the area in contact with said anatomy parts. Due to the lack of support, friction and pressure points are created. Thus you get that stinging sensation where the sun doesn't shine.

 

Hope that answers your question.

[Twisties]

Hi Bob,

 

I don't know. Here are some ideas:

 

1. I think the vinyl doesn't breathe. It has no texture, e.g. it is pretty smooth... All in all, I think there is little opportunity for air exchange between your skin and the seat.

 

2. It's relatively soft cushioning. You sink in more than on other seats. It's grabby too. Tends to pull your fabric around some, forms large contact area, and causes seams in your fabric that on other seats might not bother you to chafe.

 

I do know what I do about it, you aren't asking that, but I can be brief: Go to REI and get some MTS wicking boxers or briefs. Wear only these under your outers. I have also tried Under Armor from Sports Authority. It is suitable for outdoor wear (you can expose it to the world unlike the MTS product). If you need to you can wear some Under Armor over your MTS. Then you can shed your outers at stops if you like.

[Bullett]

I don't know. I haven't had that sensation on the RT at all. (On the Boulevard, I could only stand to be on it for about an hour before I needed to stop. But I'm on the RT low seat, and it doesn't have any padding to speak of to sink into; just a little, 3/4" to an inch. I wonder how much, or if, it is denser stuff than the stock seat?

 

( I just spilled my drink down my shirt-dang martini glasses .

It can't be the margharita in the glass.

)

 

Also, I try to shift my weight to my feet a fair bit. (I couldn't do this on the Boulevard, it would kill my quads and knees).

 

Your RT should have a more upright seating position than your K bike. Try sitting in a little more "sporty" position. By this I mean shifting your weight forward from the hips and balls of your feet on the pegs. I do this and I don't feel a great deal of weight on my wrists.

 

Anyway, just a suggestion. Happy Sunday!

[GordonB]

Okay here goes.

I too have problems with the OEM seat and until I go to Bill Mayers and get a new saddle, here's a remedy...AND NO LAUGHING

When the burn comes on do some Butt Crunches (squeeze those cheaks together 1,2 1,2 1,2 and so on for about a minute. Problem gone for a while.

Oh, make sure no one is following too close. he/she may think yoou have other issues

Works for me

[CoarsegoldKid]

If your posterior is experiencing what mine always did no matter what seat you were on then you must try this. Head on down to your local sporting goods store and pick up a pair of perspiration wicking under shorts. I happen to have the Nike brand that have thigh sections down to the knees. Don't think about it. Next get yourself out of the Levis or like material. I bought a pair of the BMW Motorad Summer II pants, yes very expensive, other brands should do fine. The combination of the shorts and pants will make your butt smile.

 

Years ago I noticed that when I rode with cotton shorts and Levis I was miserable. When I rode with cotton shorts, Levis and Aerostitch Roadcrafter suit it was better. The stitch was too hot for my climate hence the switch to the BMW pants. With the BMW pants the levis or other pants are not necessary. Get the Nikes and smile horizontally.

[keithb]

+1 on what Greg said. In addition, BMW makes a totally POS seat. They, being manufacturers, do not make seats to be comfortable for the most part. They design seats to be consistent with the lines of the bike. In other words, so the bike looks good and you buy it. Unfortunately for most of us the seat is a torture rack and has to be modified or changed completely. I am not one that can tolerate it. Do think there could be some agreement between the manufactures and the aftermarket seat people, exhaust systems, windshield systems etc. ? Why can't BMW just put a friggin set of Ohlins on the bike, a decent seat and be friggin done with it. Especially for $16K-$20K bikes. It just doesn't make sense to build a quality product and put crappy seats and shocks on the bike.

[flyingreg]

I was looking through the posts to this thread. You know, there seems to be a general reading comprehension problem amongst some of you.

[tallman]

Because the seating position creates hot spots.

Ideally, weight should not be on your sit bones, and tailbone. To reduce the weight, that leads to pressure, hot spots, poor circulation, etc... follow the advice above.

Mitch posted an excellent set of pictures years ago about tilting, weight, and riding position (but someone else can search for it ).

The forward tilt unloads pressure points and allows better shock absorption, and reduces spine jarring.

Wearing the appropriate undergarments, possibly supplemented by Anti-Monkey Butt Powder and hydrocortisone creme will help.

Moving around, changing pressure points, improving air flow and circulation all help.

[bobbybob]

Ischemia: Inadequate blood supply (circulation) to a local area due to blockage of the blood vessels to the area. This creates the burning sensation that is relieved almost instantly upon rising off your posterior. Simple as that!

 

Also the pins and needles you feel in your arm just before the nurse releases the pressure on the blood pressure cuff.

[hopz]

Well, its obvious to me that only one of you can read worth a damn, and/or the rest of you think you are comedians- which is normally appreciated, butt on this occasion I assed an honest question..

 

Sheesh- thanks anyway.

 

So its ishemia- what do you do about that? Softer foam, larger support area, different vinyl material, etc?

[bobbybob]

Well, its obvious to me that only one of you can read worth a damn, and/or the rest of you think you are comedians- which is normally appreciated, butt on this occasion I assed an honest question..

 

Sheesh- thanks anyway.

 

So its ishemia- what do you do about that? Softer foam, larger support area, different vinyl material, etc?

 

Well, even though no one else answered your specific question, it appears there is some pretty good advice in some of those posts. *Pressure* from sitting (on your butt) is the culprit--spreading it out evenly is the only real answer, along with rising up occasionally to let the blood flow again. Custom seats that cradle your butt using different densities of foam seem to work pretty well,

[Bud]

Well, its obvious to me that only one of you can read worth a damn, and/or the rest of you think you are comedians- which is normally appreciated, butt on this occasion I assed an honest question..

 

Sheesh- thanks anyway.

 

So its ishemia- what do you do about that? Softer foam, larger support area, different vinyl material, etc?

 

Really, are these just a Freudian typo's. Or are you just putting us on.

[drzep]

Two components to the burn. The first has been mentioned - thats ischemia. The second component is what actually generates the burn - metabolic byproducts activating nerve fibers and producing the actual sensation of burning.

 

First, if the pressure exerted by your arse by the contact point is greater than the mean artial pressure (MAP = Diastolic BP + [0.3 x (Systolic - diastolic)] then there is a relative perfusion deficit. The tissue begins to lose O2 and accumulate CO2, which means the H+ concentration in the local area increases thereby lowering the tissue's pH. The low pH does several things, but one pertinent to this discussion is that it triggers a small group of sensory nerve fibers to discharge. These are medium diameter nerves that run up the spine and once they reach cortex they convey a tingling sensation to your awareness. We usually perceive this as uncomfortable and begin the tail waggle. Nevertheless, persistent as we are, we maintain the seated position.

 

This is when burning begins to occur. The prolongation of ischemia and subsequent hypoxia causes a transition in the tissues metabolism from aerobic to anerobic. More titratable acids are produced, e.g., lactate, and pH continues to fall. As a defense, local cells absorb the extra H+ that are circulating but they do so at the expense of extruding K+ (potassium). One H+ in = one K+ out. This extracellular K+ directly activates free nerve endings of the slow conducting type (C fibers). These nerves convey a sensation of burning to cortex, very similar to diabetic neuropathic pain (differnt mechanism, same neurons).

 

Now with all that said, there is one additional mechanism that is relevant here. The blood supply to the nerve bundles themselves tends to get compressed. Those that are nearer to the surface lose blood first, deeper ones last. The inferior gluteal nerve supplies most of the arse (S1-S2 I think), and it is intermediate in its depth. Once it goes a tad hypoxic, its going to discharge and cause pain / burning.

 

Hope this helps and nod confuses.

[bobbybob]

Two components to the burn. The first has been mentioned - thats ischemia. The second component is what actually generates the burn - metabolic byproducts activating nerve fibers and producing the actual sensation of burning.

 

First, if the pressure exerted by your arse by the contact point is greater than the mean artial pressure (MAP = Diastolic BP + [0.3 x (Systolic - diastolic)] then there is a relative perfusion deficit. The tissue begins to lose O2 and accumulate CO2, which means the H+ concentration in the local area increases thereby lowering the tissue's pH. The low pH does several things, but one pertinent to this discussion is that it triggers a small group of sensory nerve fibers to discharge. These are medium diameter nerves that run up the spine and once they reach cortex they convey a tingling sensation to your awareness. We usually perceive this as uncomfortable and begin the tail waggle. Nevertheless, persistent as we are, we maintain the seated position.

 

This is when burning begins to occur. The prolongation of ischemia and subsequent hypoxia causes a transition in the tissues metabolism from aerobic to anerobic. More titratable acids are produced, e.g., lactate, and pH continues to fall. As a defense, local cells absorb the extra H+ that are circulating but they do so at the expense of extruding K+ (potassium). One H+ in = one K+ out. This extracellular K+ directly activates free nerve endings of the slow conducting type (C fibers). These nerves convey a sensation of burning to cortex, very similar to diabetic neuropathic pain (differnt mechanism, same neurons).

 

Now with all that said, there is one additional mechanism that is relevant here. The blood supply to the nerve bundles themselves tends to get compressed. Those that are nearer to the surface lose blood first, deeper ones last. The inferior gluteal nerve supplies most of the arse (S1-S2 I think), and it is intermediate in its depth. Once it goes a tad hypoxic, its going to discharge and cause pain / burning.

 

Hope this helps and nod confuses.

 

Yeah, but what makes my butt burn?

[Heck]

Two components to the burn. The first has been mentioned - thats ischemia. The second component is what actually generates the burn - metabolic byproducts activating nerve fibers and producing the actual sensation of burning.

 

First, if the pressure exerted by your arse by the contact point is greater than the mean artial pressure (MAP = Diastolic BP + [0.3 x (Systolic - diastolic)] then there is a relative perfusion deficit. The tissue begins to lose O2 and accumulate CO2, which means the H+ concentration in the local area increases thereby lowering the tissue's pH. The low pH does several things, but one pertinent to this discussion is that it triggers a small group of sensory nerve fibers to discharge. These are medium diameter nerves that run up the spine and once they reach cortex they convey a tingling sensation to your awareness. We usually perceive this as uncomfortable and begin the tail waggle. Nevertheless, persistent as we are, we maintain the seated position.

 

This is when burning begins to occur. The prolongation of ischemia and subsequent hypoxia causes a transition in the tissues metabolism from aerobic to anerobic. More titratable acids are produced, e.g., lactate, and pH continues to fall. As a defense, local cells absorb the extra H+ that are circulating but they do so at the expense of extruding K+ (potassium). One H+ in = one K+ out. This extracellular K+ directly activates free nerve endings of the slow conducting type (C fibers). These nerves convey a sensation of burning to cortex, very similar to diabetic neuropathic pain (differnt mechanism, same neurons).

 

Now with all that said, there is one additional mechanism that is relevant here. The blood supply to the nerve bundles themselves tends to get compressed. Those that are nearer to the surface lose blood first, deeper ones last. The inferior gluteal nerve supplies most of the arse (S1-S2 I think), and it is intermediate in its depth. Once it goes a tad hypoxic, its going to discharge and cause pain / burning.

 

Hope this helps and nod confuses.

 

Yeah, but what makes my butt burn?

 

I think in reference to the OP's question,

 

Both!.. It's a nerve thing and a circulation thing....

 

(Leave it to the doc to really answer the question asked!)

[Ken H.]

Well, its obvious to me that only one of you can read worth a damn, and/or the rest of you think you are comedians-

 

Sheesh- thanks anyway.

Well pardon us all to _ell for trying to offer some constructive suggestions. This is a motorcycle board, and the forum is called Motorcycle Talk, not a g-damn medical one. If you want to learn about the medical aspects of the butt - Goggle it.

 

Sheesh- right back at you.

[tallman]

And you got honest answers.

It is not just one causative factor that makes your butt hurt.

Using layman's terms, we tried to explain the result and the cause.

If you prefer the academic approach, no problem.

And, I stand by my previous assertion that the seat position on an RT can be a factor for many riders.

Now you've asked a second question, how to correct this problem.

1. Don't ride.

2. Adopt some/all of the info presented above.

3. Change saddle.

4. Change bikes.

5. Use an Airhawk, or one of the similar bio-medical options.

6. Ride continually, through the pain, until permanent damage reduces the level of pain and discomfort.

7. Add a layer of gel by using riding/bicycle shorts that have a gel chamois.

8. Gain/lose weight as needed.

9. Exercise to improve level of fitness and cardio-vascular system. In particular the abdomen. This will help with your back and seating position which will improve the riding experience.

10. Avoid products that are diuretics as dehydration exacerbates the problem.

11. Make sure that any riding clothing fits correctly, while on the bike and in the proper MYRP.

Best wishes.

[Bud]

 

 

I am not asking about custom seats, nor about modifications to the stock seat. I am not asking about how to gain relief, or about frequency of stops etc.

Well, its obvious to me that only one of you can read worth a damn, and/or the rest of you think you are comedians- which is normally appreciated, butt on this occasion I assed an honest question..

 

Sheesh- thanks anyway.

 

So its ishemia- what do you do about that? Softer foam, larger support area, different vinyl material, etc?

 

 

[hopz]

Thanks Doc- thats exactamondo what I was asking in the first post. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me/us.

 

As for the rest of you guys who replied, I appreciate your responses as well. I was just trying to be more clear in my question.

 

So, let me summarize; aside from the answer to my original question... the wisdom of the collective and the non-medical cause is:

Lack of Support in the seat

Too much support in the seat

Too much friction

No breathing of the vinyl

Cushion too soft

Grabby Vinyl

Wrong underwear

Wrong pants

Wrong sitting position (remember Master Yoda!)

Need to spread the pressure out.

 

On various bikes I have changed seats, modified seats and modified my behavior to include my stopping schedule, exercises, clothing etc, just as you all have thoughtfully reiterated.

 

I am about to go off on a comfy seat quest again, but rather than do the Buy and Try method, I was thinking if I knew what the issue was, at the bottom level, (pun intended- just like all the others), then I had a better chance of getting it right the first time.

 

So there.

 

thanks again.

 

and by the way- I did google it first...

[drzep]

Well pardon us all to _ell for trying to offer some constructive suggestions. This is a motorcycle board, and the forum is called Motorcycle Talk, not a g-damn medical one. If you want to learn about the medical aspects of the butt - Goggle it.

Seems to a be a medical question regarding motorcycle riding. No?

[Mike]

Hopz--

 

A bunch of smart asses, aren't we? (Pun intended)

 

It's really helpful to read Zep's explanation, which elaborates on what we all know by the seat of the pants (intended again)--"hot" spots are caused by uneven pressure distribution.

 

I'll share my personal observations, for what they're worth. There seem to be two components to effective seat design--(1) contour and (2) cushioning. My experience is that most aftermarket seat makers get these concepts, but apply them a bit differently. I've owned a couple of Corbins and, while they do a prety good job of creating a seat that contours to your anatomy, their seat foam is so firm that hot spots ultimately become an issue. When I added an Alaska Sheepskin pad to my Corbin, it worked really well.

 

I'm now using a Rick Mayer seat on my ST and Rick is one of those who seems to more effectively incorporate effective contouring and cushioning. The seat seems absolutely plush, compared to my Corbins, and it's significantly better after a few hours in the saddle. Rick's seats, like many others out there, incorporates foams of varying densities. I could try to replicate his explanation of why you want different foams in different locations, but Rick, who's a critical care open heart recovery RN and familiar with the practial application of this stuff, does a great job of explaining it all on his web page. Navigate to www.rickmayercycle.com, then click on the "All About Foam" link on the left side of the page. Reading this will give you a pretty good understanding of what to look for in a saddle.

[hANNAbONE]

gET a uSED "AirHawk" cushion and strap it on.

 

It's less money than a custom seat and can go from bike to car to another bike etc...I've got one and love it.

[WestTX RT]

Turn the heated seat off.

[tallman]

Art Smass!

[Bud]

Hopz--

 

A bunch of smart asses, aren't we? (Pun intended).

 

Yes, but moderate smart asses.

[flyingreg]

Well, its obvious to me that only one of you can read worth a damn, and/or the rest of you think you are comedians- which is normally appreciated, butt on this occasion I assed an honest question..

 

Sheesh- thanks anyway.

 

So its ishemia- what do you do about that? Softer foam, larger support area, different vinyl material, etc?

You know, you started this thread saying you had a serious question. You did not want advice on seats, etc. You only wanted to know why you hurt when you rode your bike. You then chastise this group for giving you advice you didn't ask for. Then in the very same post to which you chastise these members for giving advice, you ask for the very same advice for which you had just chastised them for providing.

 

Some people, I don't know.

[bikelawyer]

As a long time BI-cyclist, butt burning has been a burning issue for years... this is why you see cyclists wearing those funny shorts with padding in them, and no underwear! The seams on those shorts are designed to stay OFF the saddle so as to avoid rubbing. The padding not only cushions but wicks away moisture that can lead to BBS - the dreaded Butt Burning Syndrome. Having handled a few bedsore cases, I learned in cross examining the experts that certain things like dehydration, heat, moisture & bacteria can lead to a faster breakdown of the skin - add in a failure to move around and "get the blood flowing" and you've set yourself for skin breakdowns and butt burning galore...

so, I would suggest...

1. Stay hydrated

2. Consider buying some underwear that is made for motorcycling -looks similar to cycling shorts

3. Review seat position - make sure there's not some undue pressure

4. Learn to stand on the pegs and get the butt blood flowing...

[CoarsegoldKid]

Okay, friend. My 2 cents. It burns because it's wet. Wet skin bonds to cotton clothes making them wet. All wet. Wet clothes bond to seat. Body slides the skin experiences a shearing action. Or maybe the hair on your posterior side is being pulled. Get the perspiration wicking undershorts(Nike compression).

[hopz]

sounds reasonable... a lot cheaper than a new seat and worth the trial.

[xbubblehead]

Remember BMW designs seats to keep the lines of the bike and Aesthetics not comfort. Sexy sells!! Oh yea, turn the heated seat off it may not burn as much.

[boatzo]

Well, its obvious to me that only one of you can read worth a damn, and/or the rest of you think you are comedians-

 

Sheesh- thanks anyway.

Well pardon us all to _ell for trying to offer some constructive suggestions. This is a motorcycle board, and the forum is called Motorcycle Talk, not a g-damn medical one. If you want to learn about the medical aspects of the butt - Goggle it.

 

Sheesh- right back at you.

 

Well, I for one really appreciated the Doc's explination. The quesation was "Why does my butt burn"? I think that has been answered in very good form.

 

My butt burns, I have tried many things, Corbin low seat(too firm) Air Hawk (for sale, send me a PM), BMW uncomfort seat (nuff said), butt crunches (helps), Rick Mayer seat (twice) better butt not there yet. I think the anatomy answer is a good one and we all have different anatomy.

 

All the input on this post are great and all have merit.

 

Thanks, DOC!

 

Still burning, Bill

[notacop]

Hello, did you check and make sure your seat warmer was off??

[hopz]

no... its ON and I was kidding all of you....

[Bob Palin]

As a long time BI-cyclist, butt burning has been a burning issue for years... this is why you see cyclists wearing those funny shorts with padding in them, and no underwear! The seams on those shorts are designed to stay OFF the saddle so as to avoid rubbing.

Surely bicyclists put pressure on a different part of their anatomy than motorcyclists do. I just bought a pair of the Aerostitch riding shorts because they were recommended here, the seams holding the shammy run right across the place where I get the most pain, ouch!

[Switz]

I was on a long (for me) ride a few weeks ago of over 5,100 miles. The days I wore my usual cotton boxer shorts underwear, jeans and Motoport vented kevlar riding pants, I was comfortable on the vinyl seat on my Goldwing. The days I did not wear the kevlar pants, my ass got hot as mentioned plus the jeans and underwear were sweat soaked and uncomfortable.

 

Another option to consider that is not very expensive (see below) is a seat pad made up of beads. This system has many smaller areas touching the area in question plus there is some air movement through the beaded pad.

 

See www.cyclegiant.com and look for part number AO 678034B Beaded Seat @ $19.99 (phone in USA 800-260-4050)

 

It seems to me that a part of the solution requires some air movement on the seat. For me, the problem is not unique to motorcycles. I experience the same sensation on vinyl car seats and office chairs over extended sitting times.

[Dewayne Harkov]

Circulation issues is the correct answer. Move around and take Ibuprofin. Gone!!

[Quinn]

Take a break every hour and have someone spank you. A great way to meet other wierd people.

[Bud]

Well, its obvious to me that only one of you can read worth a damn, and/or the rest of you think you are comedians- which is normally appreciated, butt on this occasion I assed an honest question..

 

Sheesh- thanks anyway.

 

So its ishemia- what do you do about that? Softer foam, larger support area, different vinyl material, etc?

You know, you started this thread saying you had a serious question. You did not want advice on seats, etc. You only wanted to know why you hurt when you rode your bike. You then chastise this group for giving you advice you didn't ask for. Then in the very same post to which you chastise these members for giving advice, you ask for the very same advice for which you had just chastised them for providing.

 

Some people, I don't know.

 

 

Maybe we need Jo Momma?