Redesign of R 1200 RT - How would you do it?

[Twisties]

Hi,

 

This one has been on my mind for a while...

 

Here's my want list:

 

6. Fix the seat.

 

5. Shed another 50 - 100 pounds overall, mostly from the top of the bike, and lose 4" of width. As far as I'm concerned, a 5 gallon tank is more than big enough. Moving this bike around is hell.

 

4. A little less protection, more windflow, or better yet, make the amount of faring protection adjustable like the windshield.

 

3. ... and that brings me to the windshield, at the point at which I have adequate protection, it is too noisy. I end up raising it to reduce noise, which kills windflow.

 

2. Eliminate/redesign parts you can't clean well: The little wings under the windshield, body panels with gaps under them that get full of bugs, the ridges on the cylinder heads.

 

1. The gearing needs to be revamped. 1st is too tall, and 5th and 6th are awfully close.

 

Ok, what's your list?

[glockster]

O.K. twisted one, I don't have an '07 model but I do have an '04RT and the similarities are close enough.

 

My re-design would include:

 

1. an oil dipstick

2. hydraulic lifters

3. easier to get at fuel filter

4. the whole brake bleed thing (is it better on the 07's?)

 

I'm sure I could think of more but it's bed time

[W. Mazelin]

List? Get an R-1150-RS, or an R-1200-ST, wear earplugs. I guess you're waiting for a liquid cooled engine to eliminate the cooling fins (ridges on the cylinder heads)?

[Eschelon1]

Put 1150RT Tupperware on it.

 

[Twisties]

'04RT and the similarities are close enough

 

I put it here 'cause i didn't want to limit the discussion to hexhead owners... Chime in everybody!!!

 

4. the whole brake bleed thing (is it better on the 07's?)

 

I don't know, haven't gone there yet, but the price on the dealer price board caused me to say "design flaw". Yeah that's a good one for sure!

 

List? Get an R-1150-RS, or an R-1200-ST, wear earplugs. I guess you're waiting for a liquid cooled engine to eliminate the cooling fins (ridges on the cylinder heads)?

 

Well, there aren't any STs... at least not where you can see them, though I've now seen Matt's (bakersdozen).

 

It's not an RT, I want an RT. I'm not talking that much less protection, a bit less. I love my RT, but it could be better. That's what this is about, what do people think would make a better RT?

 

As to the cooling fins, the black ones on the inside seem real, I think those that are painted silver are really just for looks, at least they don't get very hot very fast like the others. Anyway, there are plenty of ways to keep the surface area, but make it easier to clean. I'm much more concerned though with all the bugs on the light under the painted panels, between the light and the oil cooler cover, and up inside the faring parts.

 

Put 1150RT Tupperware on it.

 

+1 I wish I could.

[Francois_Dumas]

I'd make it look like an 1150

 

Seriously, I'd change the lines back to 'curving' instead of the Startrek Enterprise looks it has now. But just my (very) personal opinion... I mean TASTE.

 

Apart from that? Add cylinder head protectors as standard, why do I have to BUY these things!?

 

Oh, and add the passenger/rider intercom connections as an option already. We're all tinkering with wires underneath fuses, soldering around..... ridiculous !

[eddd]

Put 1150RT Tupperware on it.

 

 

+1

[Highway41]

20 more ponies and done. Bill

[jbim]

Hi,

 

This one has been on my mind for a while...

 

Here's my want list:

 

6. Fix the seat.

 

5. Shed another 50 - 100 pounds overall, mostly from the top of the bike, and lose 4" of width. As far as I'm concerned, a 5 gallon tank is more than big enough. Moving this bike around is hell.

 

4. A little less protection, more windflow, or better yet, make the amount of faring protection adjustable like the windshield.

 

3. ... and that brings me to the windshield, at the point at which I have adequate protection, it is too noisy. I end up raising it to reduce noise, which kills windflow.

 

2. Eliminate/redesign parts you can't clean well: The little wings under the windshield, body panels with gaps under them that get full of bugs, the ridges on the cylinder heads.

 

1. The gearing needs to be revamped. 1st is too tall, and 5th and 6th are awfully close.

 

Ok, what's your list?

 

You are describing the GS. It is 45 pounds less. Probably as low it can go.

 

Instead of shedding some pounds, they could lower the C of G. That would do much of the same if not better. XENON lights. A price drop and rewards for owning multiple BMW bikes would be very nice

[Roadwolf]

1. Leave as is. Perfect for me.

 

2. See above.

[Mike O]

I'd make it look like an 1150

 

Seriously, I'd change the lines back to 'curving' instead of the Startrek Enterprise looks it has now. But just my (very) personal opinion... I mean TASTE.

Ditto...Better yet, toss the complete drivetrain into an 1150RT chassis.

 

Mike O

[Bheckel169]

I tried them all and found the Aeroflow to be the best for my needs. Best of all worlds would be to replace Aeroflow with a small w/s for hot weather riding and get more airflow.

[Twisties]

You are describing the GS. It is 45 pounds less. Probably as low it can go.

 

Instead of shedding some pounds, they could lower the C of G. That would do much of the same if not better. XENON lights. A price drop and rewards for owning multiple BMW bikes would be very nice

 

No, I'm not describing a GS, I'm talking a sport tourer here, not an adventure tourer: I want cruise control, protection, farkles, street suspension and tires, something recognizable as a continuation of the RT brand...

 

As for weight loss, I'm thinking advanced materials more than less materials. Everyone seems to be equating less weight to less bike, and that wasn't my intent at all.

 

I totally agree on the lower CofG, like I said, lose the weight off the top, and you're right, lowering the CofG might be enough.

 

But enough focus on my starting list.... Lets see your lists... remember, we're not criticizing our beloved steeds, we're looking at the future, and how to take the RT concept to the next level of refinement. BMW must be well along in that process now, three years into the current design. What are they thinking, what do we want them to think about?

[SageRider]

Here's my want list:

 

1. A seat that is comfortble for 12-14 hour days in the sadddle.

 

2. Gas tank capacity is great, but another gallon would be nice. 300+ mile range even when mileage is as low as 39MPG.

 

3. Oil Cooler ducting to the outside similar to the R1100-RT. The one downside to the 1200 temperature management is that this hot air currently flows up the front of the cockpit area. It's not bad unless one is leaning forward, but the 1100 ducting was great for getting heat away from the rider.

 

4. Windshield redesigned to eliminate turbulence and reduce backpressure when raised.

 

Note: If I wanted a smaller gas tank, there is the R1200-ST. Also has slightly less wind protection. Seems to be Twisties' ideal bike until arriving at the close space 5th & 6th gears, in which case an 1150 might be better.

[UberXY]

Move the R12 engine back into the R1150RT frame and bodywork, and leave all else alone.

[motoguy128]

Add a R1200LT to hte line-up

 

I would drop the final drive ratio and put an overdrive 6th back in. I like the extra tall 6th gear on my 1150R. I'd also lower 2nd gear. I find myself downshifting the 1st for any turn I can't take over 20mph. I don't like having to use 1st gear in slippery conditions.

 

Get rid of the goofy tank bag bracket (I don't use tank bags) and go ahead and add an extra 1/2 gallon of fual capacity. (If you don't like the weight, don't fill it all the way.)

 

Beef up the windscreen arms.

 

Add an integrated 60 liter top case with passenge back rest and speakers.

 

Extend the side cases 1" further back and 1/2" forward for more volume.

 

Offer a radio with built in XM and external aux input but no CD player. Give it some higher quality speakers.

 

Keep the passegner realtively close like on the current RT bike, not like the LT.

 

Enlarge the rider and passenger pegs, not ot LT size, but close.

 

Bump up displacement to to about 1320 (increase bore) and tune for better bottom end and midrange, leave the top end.

 

Add a cooling fan to the oil cooler.

 

Add a 3rd setting to the heated hand grips and seats.

 

Make the taillight LED and add a brake light to the top case.

 

Keep the weight under 660 wet despite the modifications(current bike is 630 as tested by the magazines)

 

So you'd get 99% of the LT comfort and features, with a lower center of gravity.

 

Bring back the ST with a little more bodywork like the GT, and a wider adjustable windscreen like the GT. Stick the R1200S motor in it for an extra 15HP.

 

 

While your at it BMW, give the GT another 100cc and 20 HP to completely blow the doors off the Concours 14 and FJR so there's no doubt who's the best.

[John in VA]

- Offer factory Ohlins option like on the R1200S.

- The saddle is a joke. Looks sleek, but awful as an actual seat.

- Drop the ridiculous C3PO whizzwhirrr touchy power brakes -- oops, oh yeah they finally did (by popular demand or by beancounters?).

- Reshape the lower fairing so wind protection to the foot area is at least as good as the R11RT was. My feet freeze in the winter on the R12RT.

- Reshape the upper fairing to lose those silly, uncleanable clear plastic wedgies that they apparently tacked on at the last minute.

- Increase the dash display contrast greatly or redesign it for better legibility. Maybe add a shade or recess it.

- Turnsignal switches: Push once to start, push again to cancel.

- Front and rear turnsignal running lights.

- Do something with that fugly oil cooler bezel. Reshape it, chrome it, body color it. Something!

- Cut the radio option price by at least half and add at least a mini-plug input, if not an iPod interface.

- Gas strut for the top case lid would be cool.

- New colors please.

[baggerchris]

Very simple. Add a "K" RT. That should make everybody happy.

[SageRider]

- Offer factory Ohlins option like on the R1200S....

Whoops That's a BIG one I missed!

[tallman]

Aux fuse block already wired w/relay for farkleizing

to avoid interface w/CANBUS.

Higher seat option.

Integral bars/cyclinder head protector.

Stream;ine fairing.

Integrated into the fairing fog/lower lights.

Lights that were fork mounted and turned w/bike.

Additional rear tail/brake lights.

[BigArn]

Bring the price to compete with the FJR and ST1300.

[Dave_in_TX]

OK, here'e my list

1. Fix the seat.

 

2. Keep or improve the existing protection. If I wanted more windflow, I wouldn't have bought an RT in the first place.

 

3. Don't increase windflow around the windshield. The existing flow is sufficient (BTW, I live in Texas).

 

4. Change the gear ratios. Sixth is fine but 1st is too tall. With the torguw of the RT, there's no reason that the spread between 1st and 6th couldn't be changed.

[Dave_in_TX]

Move the R12 engine back into the R1150RT frame and bodywork, and leave all else alone.

 

That would be a step backward

[Dave_in_TX]

Put 1150RT Tupperware on it.

 

 

+1

 

Why, you like the pregnent whale look of the 1150?

 

The 1200 has a nice sleek look to it.

[Dave_in_TX]

O.K. twisted one, I don't have an '07 model but I do have an '04RT and the similarities are close enough.

 

My re-design would include:

 

1. an oil dipstick

2. hydraulic lifters

3. easier to get at fuel filter

4. the whole brake bleed thing (is it better on the 07's?)

 

I'm sure I could think of more but it's bed time

+1 on the hydraulic lifters.

-1 on the dipstick, I've never had a dipstick equipped bike that was as easy to to get an accurate reading as a sight glass.

[keithb]

+1, +2, +3 what BaggerChris said (K RT). I have been wanting/requesting this type of bike for at least 8 years. Plus add Ohlins suspension, a decent seat, and a decent radio would be great. That would about do it.

[Dave_in_TX]

+1, +2, +3 what BaggerChris said (K RT). I have been wanting/requesting this type of bike for at least 8 years. Plus add Ohlins suspension, a decent seat, and a decent radio would be great. That would about do it.

 

+1 on that, I think I'd be very interested in a K RT with a good seat and radio. However, rather than have the 150+ hp of the K1200GT, I think I'd prefer something slightly detuned for more low and mid range.

[eddd]

Put 1150RT Tupperware on it.

 

 

+1

 

Why, you like the pregnent whale look of the 1150?

 

The 1200 has a nice sleek look to it.

 

 

Sleek???? That is a word I've never heard or seen used to describe a R1200RT.

[Dave_in_TX]

Put 1150RT Tupperware on it.

 

 

+1

 

Why, you like the pregnent whale look of the 1150?

 

The 1200 has a nice sleek look to it.

 

 

Sleek???? That is a word I've never heard or seen used to describe a R1200RT.

 

Well, it's a word that certainly does not describe the 1150.

[Husker Red]

Just a few small things:

 

First gear is too tall for lots of low speed riding. It works, but on my stop and go commute I would prefer something lower. I think the RT-P does have a shorter first gear.

 

I would like the seating position a little lower too. BMW's are tall bikes. You tall guys can raise the seat, but my legs only stretch so far. The low seat helps a lot with reach, but it's a torture rack on longer rides.

 

Color - motorcycles should be available in black!

 

Otherwise I love this bike.

[motoguy128]

I think the RT-P jsut has a shorter final drive. I shows a 2.75 (vs. the standard 2.62) in the spec sheets, but it didn't have tranny ratios. The lower final drive will close up all the ratios a little and give you another 60 RPM at 10mph.

[Tapatio]

Color - motorcycles should be available in black!

 

The Germans should pass a law that all BMW motorcycles must be available in black with white pinstripes. Similiar to the Reinheitsgebot beer purity law of 1516.

[MadDuck]

I would like a much simpler bike available. No ABS,computer fuel injection etc. Something that would run all day and could be fixed by the side of the road if needed. Sort of like a Road King compared to an Ultra Classic in the Harley world. As i've aged I care less and less for farkles.

[bakerzdosen]

I'd put 5th gear a little closer to 4th. I'll 2nd the option for better shocks from the factory.

[JayW]

Ok, here is my list:

 

1. Fix the too-tall 1st gear

2. Less vibration

3. Hydraulic lifters, or some other provision to eliminate all those valve adjustment checks.

4. Offer a lower suspension as an option

5. Redesign the engine to run well on 87 octane fuel (I know, a lot of you use it anyway, but my RT knocks when I do)

6. Make the ambient temp gauge more accurate

7. Add a cumulative and resettable hourmeter somewhere in the BC computer menu

8. The stock seat could be more comfortable, though I suspect a lot of buyers would replace it anyway.

9. Add a drain plug to the final drive.

10. Include 2 real ignition keys

11. Increase the current-handling load capability of the power ports.

12. Try to gain Honda's quality control/durability reputation

 

 

I love my RT though, and smile every time I ride it. I would definitely not decrease the size of the fuel tank.

 

Jay

[St0nkingByte]

Lower first gear.

 

Other than that the bike is perfect, leave it alone. The rest of the posts in this thread are sheer blasphemy! Blasphemy I tell you! Except mine which is completely reasonable and should be implemented immediately.

 

[Bob_Minor]

I would like a much simpler bike available. No ABS,computer fuel injection etc. Something that would run all day and could be fixed by the side of the road if needed.

 

It's called an airhead.

[MadDuck]

Yes, make me a new one with the 1200 motor.

[Switz]

Seems the ease of fixing brings to mind my R69S. Plugs, points, condensor and a nail file would carry the day. A spare piece of wire to "jump" a fuse, otherwise wrap the blown fuse in a cigarette package foil.

[MadDuck]

Saw a Victory Vision?? demo. They've fixed a pet peeve of mine, push it over in the parking lot and nothing gets busted. Tip over protection built right in. Add that to my wish list.

[rickmoen]

Great Thread!!! I wish I had thought of it! I'm so happy with my '05RT, that there isn't much I would want to change. Well, maybe a few things. Like many others, I'd like to see a bit lower first gear, a bit more of a difference between fifth and sixth gear, a more comfortable seat, at least two real keys, and a real toolkit. I like the suggestion about the turn signals - push (left or right) to turn on and then push the same button to cancel. Being easier to clean those hard to reach places would be nice too. Overall, my '05RT is such a nice bike that I just grin whenever I ride it! Rick

[blkvelvt]

1. A tool kit.

2. A larger sidestand foot

3. A 1400cc engine. (Now it will pull the gearbox ratios it has already)

4. Front forks.

5. Better speakers and XM

6. Lose the tankbag modular snap-on bullsheez.

7. Mirrors with a higher view than the Pillions knees.

8. Change the Buick colors.

9. Narrower overall width of body.

10. Price reduction of $3,000 and 36 month/50,000 mile warranty.

[Eschelon1]

 

Why, you like the pregnent whale look of the 1150?

 

The 1200 has a nice sleek look to it.

 

 

 

The front end of the 1200 looks like the Green Goblin character from the movie "Spider Man"

 

[Heck]

Why, you like the pregnant whale look of the 1150?

 

Yes.

 

"Save the whale"

[codinn]

TDI

 

This would be weird and cool and get great mileage.

[BrianT]

I wrote this before looking through the other posts so I'm sure I'm repeating some of whats already been said.

 

Fix the Anime Japanese styling they've switched to. I liked the classic looks of the 1100 and 1150 so something along those lines. I realize I look like a Power Ranger in my Aerostitch, full face helmet, gloves and boots, but my bike doesn't need to look like it's from that show too.

 

Throw out or at least make removable the stupid gas tank rank trying to force us into buying the BMW tank bag.

 

Get rid of the key immobilizer that seems to just be there so they can say it's there and add it to the price of the bike. It's not like BMW is on the hot list for stolen bikes and just adds one more thing to break and strand you somewhere as has happened to a few.

 

Go back to giving you more keys like they used to do before they switched to the new chip keys and now only give you the one or two and now charge you $80 for a duplicate.(Could be facilitated by the previous item I listed.)

 

Make the windshield design more about being functional not more about looks as they appear to have done at the cost of turbulence and/or usability.

 

Make sure the final drives are bullet proof.

 

Maybe a heads up display on the windshield kind of like what they have now in their higher end cars. I know probably not doable with the adjustable windshield and probably cost prohibitive, but it would be cool to be able to see speed, RPM and emergency warnings in your field of view without having to look down. I know maybe in 50 years, but I can dream.

 

I'm not sure if the RT horn is the same cheap worthless horn as on my GT but if so a LOUDER horn.

 

An accessory plug that can handle more than 5 amps and actually work with my Gerbings.

 

If we're goin dream bike, maybe electric adjustable handlebars, kind of like the Wunderlich ones. That way you can raise them up for comfort on the freeway and lower them down for getting close to the bike in the twisty stuff. Kind of like the windshield is now, one button to press to raise or lower them.

 

Since we know they've made the bikes difficult for the home to mechanic to work on by requiring the use of their special tools and computers, howabout include free service for the first 36k miles like they do with their cars. Or just make them easier to work on so the home mechanic can do his own service, which would probably be cheaper in the long run for someone who racks up the miles. One of the best things I loved about my 1100RT was the fact that virtually anything could be repaired while I was on a road trip. Not so much anymore.

 

Last but not least and the one I'm still surprised they havn't done. Bring back the color black. I still think that the black BMW RT's were sexy. The black bikes have always sold well and I don't know why BMW doesn't like to do it. If I remember right I think the black bikes that were here were a special order deal by BMWNA to BMW HQ because they knew people wanted them here.

 

I know virtually none of this will happen, but one can dream.

[SAAB93driver]

this probably is more applicable to the R12ST but put the Hexhead 1200 drivetrain in R1100-1150RS clothing and redesign the windshield mechanism from the RS to electric, more stable design. Keep all the adjustable ergo features and the kind of real toolkit.

[mistral]

I know I won't buy a new RT. I have a CL that I can get 40mph in ist gear and 6th really needs 80mph. My 02 RT is geared right. It is hard to believe BMW can't get the gearing right. I will stick with the 1150.

[Twisties]

If I wanted a smaller gas tank, there is the R1200-ST. Also has slightly less wind protection. Seems to be Twisties' ideal bike until arriving at the close space 5th & 6th gears, in which case an 1150 might be better.

 

Thanks everyone suggesting that I look at the ST. Matt, bakerzdosen, was gracious enough to have us over today to show us how to change our tires, and I had a chance to sit on his R 1200 ST. After all the suggestions that the ST met my criteria, I was excited to get a closer look at one.

 

The result: This is not a bike for me. The riding position is much more forward than that on the RT, and I could not have ridden it. This bike says SPORT all over it. But I'm glad I took a look at it. Lets say that the ideal bike for me would be an RT that was just a touch leaner, although you can certainly count me in with those who get a grin on their face every time they ride theirs.

[OlGeezer]

Put 1150RT Tupperware on it.

 

 

+1