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Probably a stupid queston, but...


PapaJ

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I am curious, the air return hoses from the charcoal cannister run into the throttle bodies on the small nipples at the bottom. That being said, do they have to be left open or can the be capped as in a canisterectomy. If they are capped, do the BBS have any effect on airflow through the throttle bodies? I've been thinking about it and just didn't know so... tongue.gif

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carquestman1

As in any evap system the hoses only contain gas fumes and I don't see the advantage to plugging them off therefore preventing the evap system to funtion properly. It may even set a trouble code.

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I am curious, the air return hoses from the charcoal cannister run into the throttle bodies on the small nipples at the bottom. That being said, do they have to be left open or can the be capped as in a canisterectomy. If they are capped, do the BBS have any effect on airflow through the throttle bodies? I've been thinking about it and just didn't know so... tongue.gif

 

 

Greg, that air return hose you talk of is the vacuum purge line from the Evap Canister to the throttle bodies.. There is an electric purge solenoid in that line that allows the fuel vapors that are trapped by the Evap canister to be purged into the throttle bodies under certain operating parameters (controlled by the Fueling computer)..

 

Those little fittings on the bottom of the throttle bodies go directly into a low pressure area of the throttle bodies so are ALWAYS active as far as allowing air into the throttle bodies.. They either need to be plugged off (if no Evap canister),, or have the vacuum lines attached & hooked up properly (if the Evap canister is still active).. Even if the Evap canister is removed it is a good idea to leave the vacuum hoses hooked up & just plug it where it tee’s into the rear purge hose as that allows some (be it minor) crossover TBI equalization balance..

 

As far as effecting the BBS function YES it does, but not completely.. If left open the air flowing in those nipples on the bottom of the TBI’s ends up in the same place as the air entering from the BBS so would be like opening the BBS screws farther,, problem is, the air that enters those nipples is NOT filtered air so allows dirt & junk into the intake system..

 

-Canister operative = make sure the vacuum lines are hooked up to the TBI nipples__

 

-Canister removed = either plug off those vacuum nipples or leave the crossover hose in place & plug off the hose where it tee’s into the rear harness..

 

Twisty

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Whats the advantage of a "canisterectony"?

 

David, the advantage of removing it are: a failed Evap Canister won’t allow the purge vacuum to crush your fuel tank sender if the canister plugs..

The bike also looks better without that big black ugly can hanging on the side of the bike..

It can allow the fuel tank to filled higher (regularly) without fuel logging the Evap canister..

The Evap system won’t plug on you when on a trip & cause engine operating problems..

 

Disadvantages of removing it are: more hydro carbons in the atmosphere (the Evap canister is a very effective emission control),, your tree hugging neighbor won’t lecture you on being non environmentally friendly,, you actually burn the light hydrocarbons instead of putting them in the air.. You will be violating federal emission compliance laws..

 

Twisty

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Whats the advantage of a "canisterectony"?
There is this great urban legion lore that massive canister failures are destroying 1000s and 1000s of BMW bikes. Haven't you seen the big piles of charcoal ruined BMW motors behind every dealer in America?

 

In reality an exceedingly small number of canisters have failed, mostly because people hooked the vent hoses up backward after having the tank off for some reason, and that caused rain water to get into it and clog it.

 

The even bigger reality is that people love to mess with their bike and rebel against 'the man' a bit, they read something about "canisterectony" on the Internet somewhere, the word sounds cool, and doing so gives them a sense of authority over their own little domain.

 

Do the childrens' lungs a favor and leave the bike's pollution control devices in place please.

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In answer to your questions, no I have not done a canisterectomy. I am just curious and trying to understand how the system works and it's influence on the throttle bodies. I may do one in the future, but not now. I appreciate the data though, unfortunately I have this need to understand how things work and you are all a great help. wave.gif

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The even bigger reality is that people love to mess with their bike and rebel against 'the man' a bit, they read something about "canisterectony" on the Internet somewhere, the word sounds cool, and doing so gives them a sense of authority over their own little domain.

That's good enough for me. thumbsup.gif

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justplainray
Whats the advantage of a "canisterectony"?

 

it is to stand up to nannie-ism and shout NO!!!ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!

to thumb one's nose at authority.

to show INDIVIDUAL-ISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM A PERSON!!!!!!!!!

 

there...i feel beter now. smile.gif

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ShovelStrokeEd

Whew, now take a deep breath, i n h a l e.

 

Did you cough? Thank the guys who have removed their canisters. dopeslap.gif

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Would a failed canister cause the RFID to report an inaccurate fuel level? Mine has started to report

two bars minimum reading (even with the warning light

illuminated). I track my mileage pretty carefully

and know when I should be close to empty - around 295

miles. This is on TX freeways all at 70-80 mph.

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russell_bynum
There is this great urban legion lore that massive canister failures are destroying 1000s and 1000s of BMW bikes.

 

The only place I've heard of that is in your posts.

 

 

In reality an exceedingly small number of canisters have failed, mostly because people hooked the vent hoses up backward after having the tank off for some reason, and that caused rain water to get into it and clog it.

 

The even bigger reality is that people love to mess with their bike and rebel against 'the man' a bit, they read something about "canisterectony" on the Internet somewhere, the word sounds cool, and doing so gives them a sense of authority over their own little domain.

 

Yep.

 

I left the canister in place on my RT until I started seeing lots of black goo in the throttle bodies. I'm assuming it's because my canister was at end of life or got saturated with fuel or something.

 

I did pull it off of Lisa's bike for no real reason other than I was screwing around in the garage one Saturday and just decided to do it.

 

Do the childrens' lungs a favor and leave the bike's pollution control devices in place please.

 

Or, just stop riding for pleasure...since that creates pullution and burns fossil fuels for no reason other than one person's enjoyment.

 

wave.gif

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russell_bynum
In answer to your questions, no I have not done a canisterectomy. I am just curious and trying to understand how the system works and it's influence on the throttle bodies. I may do one in the future, but not now. I appreciate the data though, unfortunately I have this need to understand how things work and you are all a great help. wave.gif

 

Ken's melodramatic outburst aside...

 

I'd suggest leaving it in place unless you're seeing lots of black goo in the throttle bodies trailing back from where the lines from the canister plug in. At that point, you could replace the canister, or do a canisterectomy.

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russell_bynum
Whew, now take a deep breath, i n h a l e.

 

Did you cough? Thank the guys who have removed their canisters. dopeslap.gif

 

lmao.gif

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russell_bynum
The even bigger reality is that people love to mess with their bike and rebel against 'the man' a bit, they read something about "canisterectony" on the Internet somewhere, the word sounds cool, and doing so gives them a sense of authority over their own little domain.

That's good enough for me. thumbsup.gif

 

Yeah...but you're one of them damn kids who ride the crotch rockets.

 

grin.gif

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Whats the advantage of a "canisterectony"?

 

You can say you did it, but then you really don't want anybody to know.

Ferget it. It doesn't do anything that warrents doing it.

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Whats the advantage of a "canisterectony"?

 

David, the advantage of removing it are: a failed Evap Canister won’t allow the purge vacuum to crush your fuel tank sender if the canister plugs.. Twisty

 

Well funny you should mention this. I'm in the middle of a X-country trip, and in the middle of western Iowa I suddenly run out of gas on my 96' 1100RT with 4 bars showing on the RID and no fuel low light. The thumb ride to the closest Burg with a pig farmer to get gas is another story...

 

I had been seeing ~290 miles to a tank, and frankly due to previous accuracy of the RID had not reset the odometer at fill ups. Well as I try and figure out why the beast dies, I open the tank to considerable suction. As soon as I do this and try to start again, I have the fuel low light, but RID stuck at 5 bars. When I fill up (7 gallons!) the RID works and indicates down to 5 bars where it sits.

 

This sounds symptomatic of the crushed fuel sensor caused by excessive vacuum from the canister. Any other ideas?

 

Should I pull the tank vent tube from the canister, or just let it be? If the sensor is crushed nothings gonna fix it now. Currently just manually venting the tank every 100 miles to very minor suction, and getting gas NLT every 250. Fuel warning light seems to be working now....

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[quote

Yeah...but you're one of them damn kids who ride the crotch rockets.

 

grin.gif

You're sooo right. I'm turning into a total squid. BTW, I'm in the market for a baseball cap that will stay on my head at 120 mph. Any suggestions?

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Whats the advantage of a "canisterectony"?

 

David, the advantage of removing it are: a failed Evap Canister won’t allow the purge vacuum to crush your fuel tank sender if the canister plugs.. Twisty

 

Well funny you should mention this. I'm in the middle of a X-country trip, and in the middle of western Iowa I suddenly run out of gas on my 96' 1100RT with 4 bars showing on the RID and no fuel low light. The thumb ride to the closest Burg with a pig farmer to get gas is another story...

 

I had been seeing ~290 miles to a tank, and frankly due to previous accuracy of the RID had not reset the odometer at fill ups. Well as I try and figure out why the beast dies, I open the tank to considerable suction. As soon as I do this and try to start again, I have the fuel low light, but RID stuck at 5 bars. When I fill up (7 gallons!) the RID works and indicates down to 5 bars where it sits.

 

This sounds symptomatic of the crushed fuel sensor caused by excessive vacuum from the canister. Any other ideas?

 

Should I pull the tank vent tube from the canister, or just let it be? If the sensor is crushed nothings gonna fix it now. Currently just manually venting the tank every 100 miles to very minor suction, and getting gas NLT every 250. Fuel warning light seems to be working now....

 

Fly4hire, that does sound like you have a plugged Evap Can.. Either that or you have a plugged Evap can vent line.. There should be 3 hoses running into your Evap canister.. One line from the fuel tank,, one line from the solenoid, & one (vent) line going down behind the R/H foot peg..

 

To identify- just blow into the lines one at at time .. The one going behind the R/H foot peg will blow air on your hand when you hold your hand under there.. The one going to the fuel tank should build pressure with the fuel cap closed & not build pressure with the fuel cap open, OR with the fuel cap closed blow into the line then sniff the pressure kick back when you quit blowing (it will be heavy with fuel vapors).. The one going to the solenoid should always build pressure (unless cruising down the road at speed)..

 

To by-pass the Evap Can just leave the one from the tank open (disconnected) or better yet connect it to the vent hose running down behind the R/H foot peg.. Then plug off the line going to the purge solenoid (golf tee woks good)..

 

I would never advocate removing an emission device in public but once it is by-passed (per above) if it would happen to fall off while on your trip it would be no loss as it does sound plugged..

 

There is a way to disassemble your fuel tank sender & remove the damage but the sender will have to come out (wait till you get home then post back here) ..

 

Twisty

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Jerry Johnston

I removed mine a year ago because I suspected it was getting plugged and also figured the rubber lines needed replacement. Everything works fine without it and mileage is about the same or better.

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russell_bynum
[quote

Yeah...but you're one of them damn kids who ride the crotch rockets.

 

grin.gif

You're sooo right. I'm turning into a total squid. BTW, I'm in the market for a baseball cap that will stay on my head at 120 mph. Any suggestions?

 

lmao.gif

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  • 2 weeks later...

There is a way to disassemble your fuel tank sender & remove the damage but the sender will have to come out (wait till you get home then post back here) ..

 

Twisty

 

I called a dealer and they said disconnect the tank vent line - did so and there was considerable vacuum as I pulled the tube. Left the other two lines connected to the canister and the rest of the trip went fine with no more suction, however the RID never self corrected.

 

I'm back to work now, and would like to fix the fuel sensor and either do a canisterectomy or replace. Any links to instructions for either would be appreciated.

 

Thanks for the tips.....

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There is a way to disassemble your fuel tank sender & remove the damage but the sender will have to come out (wait till you get home then post back here) ..

 

Twisty

 

I called a dealer and they said disconnect the tank vent line - did so and there was considerable vacuum as I pulled the tube. Left the other two lines connected to the canister and the rest of the trip went fine with no more suction, however the RID never self corrected.

 

I'm back to work now, and would like to fix the fuel sensor and either do a canisterectomy or replace. Any links to instructions for either would be appreciated.

 

Thanks for the tips.....

 

Fly4hire, on removing the Evap Can?_ Just remove the can from the bike.. Plug off the vacuum at the purge solenoid (or at the purge vacuum line going to the can) then find the tank vent hose ( blow into the lines with the fuel cap open).. Hook the tank vent hose to the Evap Can vent hose (the one running to just behind the R/H foot peg.. That’s it..

 

On the fuel sender repair? Check this link..

Sender Repair

 

 

Twisty

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