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IanW

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Stoner Stoner Stoner who else, what is your pick.

 

Ian smile.gif

 

I am hoping Yamaha has found some speed during the break to give Valentino a chance. Otherwise Stoner has to be the favourite.

 

Andy

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So nobody thinks Curtis Roberts is going to turn the tables?

 

I'm always pulling for Rossi, but I have to go with this "out on a limb" bunch and have to say Stoner. I also think Capirossi will finish 2nd giving him a good run.

 

The spread between Stoner's qualifying and 2nd place is larger, by a lot, than between any two spots in the top 17. (!) How often do you see that? The guy is on a roll.

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The August 2007 issue of Bike magazine (slick UK publication) has a short article on MotoGP that tries to explain the results so far. Since the bikes are limited to using only 21 liters of fuel per race, tuning for mileage has become important. According to the article, Ducati tunes for speed on the straights but runs quite lean in the corners. Yahaha and Suzuki tune for better corner throttle response and exit speed, while Honda apparently tried to choose a happy medium everywhere. Kawasaki chose to go for acceleration rather than top speed. Each tuning method has tracks where it works well and tracks where it doesn't work. Once the tuning method is set it usually isn't changed because of the amount of testing required to get the bike and rider set up properly. It appears that Casey Stoner has mastered his bike's tuning better than anyone else, especially his teammate Loris Capirossi.

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russell_bynum

I haven't been paying attention to the timing...

 

I saw that the two Factory Hondas were fairly quick in qualifying...anyone know how they did with race setup?

 

I'd be really interested to see if Michellin took the break to remember how to make race tires that don't suck.

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I haven't been paying attention to the timing...

 

I saw that the two Factory Hondas were fairly quick in qualifying...anyone know how they did with race setup?

 

I'd be really interested to see if Michellin took the break to remember how to make race tires that don't suck.

 

Dani was more consistent then Nicky but there was not much to choose between them. Casey was dialled in from the get-go and only took 5 runs to put himself on pole, sitting out the last 10 minutes of qualifying.

 

Sylvain Guintoli (who lives in my village despite what Motogp.com says) was the fastest Yamaha until the qualifiers went in and Valentino made better use of them.

 

The Ducati's were quickest up the hill at the end of the lap and I cannot see Casey being beaten.

 

I predict:-

1 Casey Stoner

2 Dani Pedrosa

3 Valentino Rossi

 

edit: About Michelin, they seem to have been hit badly by the new tyre rules. For years, in the European rounds, they took data from Friday / Saturday morning practice and used it to make new tyres for the race on Sunday. Now that they are not permitted to do that - all tyres used must be in the paddock on Thursday - they are in the same position as Bridgestone who have had years of practice in gauging what tyres any given circuit will need based on last years data.

 

Andy

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Having reviewed the timing sheets on MotoGP.com I was wrong, with race tyres on Casey was just fastest, with Valentino, Nicky and Dani all very even running high 1:58s to low 1:59s with the odd 2.00 in there (probably passing bikes on slow laps).

 

The thing that really stands out is that Stoner only took 5 full laps to set pole, with Nicky using 14 whilst Dani and Valentino used 16.

 

It's in the bag for Stoner with a toss up for the other two podium spots.

 

I revise my prediction to

1 Casey Stoner

2 Valentino Rossi

3 Nicky Hayden

4 Dani Pedrosa

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russell_bynum

Thanks for the analysis. I've been in the garage all day practicing flatting inner tubes while changing dirt bike tires dopeslap.gif so I haven't had a chance to take a look.

 

 

It seems like Casey can't do anything wrong. Usually, we see the riders using most of qualifying as another chance to work on race setup, only throwing on the Q's and going for a flyer late in the session.

 

The fact that Casey threw down his hot lap so early and freaking sat out the last 10 mintues when everyone else was going balls to the wall is really telling.

 

And that's got to be some powerful ammunition for the mind games those guys play with each other.

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Stoner slayed them again.

 

Linz grin.gif

 

Moderator Edit: When you're going to give away race results, put "SPOILER" in the title so that people who haven't had a chance to watch it yet will know not to look at the thread. dopeslap.gif

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It seems pretty quite around here. Cat got your tongue? Anyone? lmao.gif

 

FYI: 60 points is going to be very, very hard to over take in just six more races, even for a hero. lurker.gif

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russell_bynum
It seems pretty quite around here. Cat got your tongue? Anyone? lmao.gif

 

FYI: 60 points is going to be very, very hard to over take in just six more races, even for a hero. lurker.gif

 

I've been busy most of the weekend.

 

But yeah...I'd say that barring a string of monumentally bad luck, or a crash that results in injury that knocks him out for a few races, Casey's got this one in the bag.

 

It was good to see two Americans on the podium...Hopper's best MotoGP finish to date, and Nicky doing well and holding off the guy who was supposed to run away with this year's title. clap.gif

 

It was pretty painful watching Rossi back there dicing with the Kawasakis. eek.gif And that was very un-Edwards to crash out of the race. You don't see that very often.

 

All in all, another really boring MotoGP race. This season is a real snoozer from a racing perspective.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled to see Casey doing so well, and it's awesome to have Ducati, with it's limited resources out there stomping the big money factories. That's just cool.

 

But I like good racing, and we just haven't had much of that this year. At least not in MotoGP anyway.

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All in all, another really boring MotoGP race. This season is a real snoozer from a racing perspective.

 

Not that I'm wishing Stoner anything other than success, but this could drive down enthusiasm for the rest of the season. The races are getting a bit mundane.

 

When the high-point of the race is both MV-Agusta's possibly finishing in the top ten, you gotta wonder. grin.gif

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wrestleantares

It was good to see two Americans on the podium...Hopper's best MotoGP finish to date, and Nicky doing well and holding off the guy who was supposed to run away with this year's title. clap.gif

 

 

I'm glad to see Hayden really racing again. But I doubt he is going to complete my goal for him this year - BEAT Pedrosa in points.

 

The season (front of the races at least) have started to become a bit boring. Too many runaway victories this year.

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Truly a boring race but clearly it is Stoners championship at this point. Really makes you wonder how much of an advantage Rossi had in the past with the last minute tires he had access too......this last race was only interesting because of how off the pace Rossi was and how well Hopper rode....Ducati really hit the mark this season for sure, must be keeping folks up all over Japan.

 

Also I believe the MV's are racing in the AMA superbike series not MotoGP......good to see them doing well, I guess sales of MV's are way up.

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russell_bynum
All in all, another really boring MotoGP race. This season is a real snoozer from a racing perspective.

 

Not that I'm wishing Stoner anything other than success, but this could drive down enthusiasm for the rest of the season. The races are getting a bit mundane.

 

When the high-point of the race is both MV-Agusta's possibly finishing in the top ten, you gotta wonder. grin.gif

 

You're confusing races. The MV's were fighting for top 10 in AMA Superbike...which is also insanely boring right now.

 

It wouldn't bother me at all if Stoner won every race the rest of the season, but I'd at least like to see some racing. We really haven't seen any racing all year in MotoGP.

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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...uh, oh, is the race over? I fell asleep there for a minute.

 

Glad to see Nicky doing well.

 

That's about the high point.

 

Sucks to see Rossi having issues. I think the new tire rule should be put to the sword. These are supposed to be the best of the best, so they should have the best equipment for the race on Sunday, not the best guess on what they might need on Thursday. Very frustrating to me to see awesome riders jipped by this rule. Would love to see how Stoner would fare if we didn't have the new tire rule. Now THAT might actually be a fight. smirk.gif

 

At least Nicky may finish inside of the top 8 (my goal was for him to simply finish higher than his worst result in GP, which was 8th. Don't think he can catch Dani, unfortunately, but it's nice to see him beat him from time to time!)

 

I wish Collin would go to AMA Superbike. I'm just not sure he's got the stuff for GP, but I think he could kick a$$ at Superbike. That's the one series he hasn't contested yet, and it would sure inject a little entertainment into that class. Put him on DiSalvo's Yamaha maybe? He's supposed to be an awesome development rider, maybe he can develop it into a real contender for those Suzie boys. I'd love to see Mladin and Collin duke it out, with Ben, Eric, and Jamie in the mix to keep it interesting. smile.gif Tommy Hayden should focus on SuperSport, where he really shines (except this year; does Suzuki not know how to make a 600?), and Roger should go to GP. Oooh, which Hayden to root for... now that's a conundrum I like! thumbsup.gif

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. I think the new tire rule should be put to the sword. These are supposed to be the best of the best, so they should have the best equipment for the race on Sunday, not the best guess on what they might need on Thursday. Very frustrating to me to see awesome riders jipped by this rule. Would love to see how Stoner would fare if we didn't have the new tire rule. Now THAT might actually be a fight. smirk.gif:

 

So, You really think that the tire rules should go back to the way there were, when Michelin could take all the data they got from the track on Thursday -Sat. and make sets of tires for their riders Sat. evening to be used on Sunday?

Clearly that's a disadvantage to the other tire makers in the series. The new rule at least evens out the playing field between tire company's.

I'm with Russell and I'm also starting to wonder just how much of an advantage it was to him to have that special overnight service he enjoyed for all those years when he was wining.

The tire rules may need to be tweeked next year but to go back and allow the overnight express from Michelin to be restarted again would be wrong, IMO. They just need to get better at collecting data from the tracks and come up with the right combination. You know, that's why they do testing during the off season and after most every race on Monday. They just flat out screwed up and their riders are paying the price and so are we as fans.

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russell_bynum

So, You really think that the tire rules should go back to the way there were, when Michelin could take all the data they got from the track on Thursday -Sat. and make sets of tires for their riders Sat. evening to be used on Sunday?

Clearly that's a disadvantage to the other tire makers in the series.

 

Tough.

 

I'm in favor of limiting displacement and I don't have a problem with a minimum weight limit...and a requirement that the bikes have no more than 2 wheels. Other than that, this is supposed to be the best of the best riding the best of the best with no limits on technology or anything else. I don't care if they overnight tires in for the race.

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Tough.

I don't care if they overnight tires in for the race.

Obviously the rule makers don't see it your way and I for one hope they don't bend over for the French and change it back. lmao.gif

Trust me .......... If Michelin doesn't come up with something very quickly, they may not have many riders using their tires next year. I'm sure Rossi is already thinking about switching over to Bridgestone asap.

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russell_bynum
Tough.

I don't care if they overnight tires in for the race.

Obviously the rule makers don't see it your way and I for one hope they don't bend over for the French and change it back. lmao.gif

Trust me .......... If Michelin doesn't come up with something very quickly, they may not have many riders using their tires next year. I'm sure Rossi is already thinking about switching over to Bridgestone asap.

 

Why stop there? Why not just go to a spec tire like World Superbike has? Totally level the field.

 

 

OK...in the spirit of compromise...what if they still had to get all their tires to the track on Thursday, but they could bring as many as they wanted?

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What a snoozer race. I started watching with 8 laps left and Stoner was waaaay out front. Reminded me of the Laguna Seca races in the late 90's and early 00's. First guy out of the chute wins and the rest of the race is between the next 8 racers. Boooring.

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OK...in the spirit of compromise...what if they still had to get all their tires to the track on Thursday, but they could bring as many as they wanted?

 

How about just increasing the total amount, not as many as they want. Keep in mind that this is a competition between tire makers too. And yes....I would support a change to the series if they decide to use only one tire maker. I have no problem with that as long as there's no special tires that one team gets and the others can get a hold of them.

 

I can't wait to see Rossi and Stoner use the same tire maker and continue to see Stoner still kick his ass. thumbsup.gif

I'm all for heads up same spec type racing. Let's see who the best really is. My money's on Stoner. He's already diced it up with Rossi a couple times this year and still won the race. Keep in mind that this isn't all about Ducati having the best bike out there. It still takes a great rider to do what he's done this year. If it was just the bike, Cappy would be right in the mix and he isn't even close.

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russell_bynum
How about just increasing the total amount, not as many as they want.

 

Why not? They can make as much power as they want. They can make the bikes out of whatever they want. They can use whatever electronics they want. Why not use as many tires as they want?

 

 

And yes....I would support a change to the series if they decide to use only one tire maker.

 

I wouldn't want that. If you want to see a pure rider vs. rider race, then go watch the BMW Boxer Cup or something like that.

 

 

 

 

I'm all for heads up same spec type racing. Let's

see who the best really is. My money's on Stoner.

 

I'm not convinced. Rossi's been very strong in every class he's raced in. He dominated in 125 and 250. He dominated on the (obviously stronger) RC211V. He moved to the (obviously inferior) Yamaha 990 and won there as well. The 800's and (I think more importantly) the tire rule has him at a disadvantage. Stoner was strong in 250's, and promising on the 990's, but never really dominated like Rossi did. Rossi has 7 World Titles. How many does Casey have again? tongue.gif

 

Keep in mind that this isn't all about Ducati having the best bike out there. It still takes a great rider to do what he's done this year. If it was just the bike, Cappy would be right in the mix and he isn't even close.

 

Absolutely. From 250's and 990's, we saw some real talent in Casey. It's obvious that the 800 Ducati with Bridgestones is perfectly matched to Casey's style and he's exploiting it very well.

 

And...the few times we've seen Rossi get close and apply pressure, he's done what Sete and Max were unable to do...withstand the pressure. That's a real feat.

 

Again...I'm not trying to minimize what Casey is doing this year, but comparing his credentials to Rossi's...you just can't do that a this point and conclude that Casey is the better rider.

 

Not yet anyway.

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And...the few times we've seen Rossi get close and apply pressure, he's done what Sete and Max were unable to do...withstand the pressure. That's a real feat.

 

Though it's gotta help the nerves knowing that recovering from a mistake is only a long straight away.

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Why not use as many tires as they want?

Whilst I can see your point, each team can choose who supplies their tyres. If commercial considerations prevent a team from changing whose fault is that? Michelin have a logistical advantage for overnighting specials, being closer to most of the circuits, but would you want logistics gaining advantage over technical competence?

 

It's a tough call, I agree, but without constraints it just becomes a money race (if it isn't already). Even with limitations, it's a bit pricey -- anyone seen Ilmor? blush.gif

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russell_bynum
Why not use as many tires as they want?

Whilst I can see your point, each team can choose who supplies their tyres. If commercial considerations prevent a team from changing whose fault is that? Michelin have a logistical advantage for overnighting specials, being closer to most of the circuits, but would you want logistics gaining advantage over technical competence?

 

My compromise solution (i.e. make everyone bring all their tires before the weekend starts, but don't limit the number of tires they can bring.) would accomplish that.

 

 

It's a tough call, I agree, but without constraints it just becomes a money race (if it isn't already). Even with limitations, it's a bit pricey -- anyone seen Ilmor? blush.gif

 

So? Let the privateers go club racing...this is supposed to be the pinnacle of the sport. That means big money.

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Yikes, I wasn't expecting an express reply!

My compromise solution (i.e. make everyone bring all their tires before the weekend starts, but don't limit the number of tires they can bring.) would accomplish that.

Yes it would. But that's just another artificial constraint, but it just happens to disguise Michelin's apparent deficit of the moment.

 

 

So? Let the privateers go club racing...this is supposed to be the pinnacle of the sport. That means big money.

But it just becomes a money race -- literally. Last one to go bust wins. Where's the fun in that?

 

Now, I can't understand why there's a fuel limit! That may have had as much influence as the tyres, with tuning compromised for conservation rather than best-possible.

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russell_bynum

Yes it would. But that's just another artificial constraint, but it just happens to disguise Michelin's apparent deficit of the moment.

 

Right. In my perfect world, if someone wanted to build a tire factory across the street from every track, so be it. If someone wants to hire an F15 to shuttle tires from their factory to the track at Mach 2, so be it.

 

But we apparently need silly restrictions because someone was pissed that Michelin was using their resources to get the best tires to their riders. eek.gif

 

But it just becomes a money race -- literally. Last one to go bust wins. Where's the fun in that?

 

Not necessarily. It's about who wants it the most. Money is only a part of that. I don't know, but I'd be willing to bet that Ducati is spending a fraction of what Honda is...but who's on top of the pile? It isn't the big money, it's the company made up of lunatics who live/breath/eat/sleep racing, and only sell street bikes to finance their racing efforts.

 

Now, I can't understand why there's a fuel limit! That may have had as much influence as the tyres, with tuning compromised for conservation rather than best-possible.

 

Yep...I'm with you there. Who cares how much fuel they carry? That seems to be a self-correcting problem. If you tune for massive power, and it costs you fuel, then you have to carry more fuel, and you're therefore heavier (at least early in the race).

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I don't know, but I'd be willing to bet that Ducati is spending a fraction of what Honda is...but who's on top of the pile? It isn't the big money, it's the company made up of lunatics who live/breath/eat/sleep racing, and only sell street bikes to finance their racing efforts.

 

FYI: Ducati Racing is completely financed by their "sponsors" and has no

money coming in from their bike sales.

I used to think as you do about this until it was explained to me a few years ago by their CEO.

That's one of the reasons their not in AMA right now and of course they also wanted that rule change about the twin's cc's limit, so next year they can roll over Mr Spies or Matt. tongue.gif

 

And as far as Stoner goes ............... how old was Rossi when he won his first Moto GP Championship? I forgot ............. was he 21? lmao.gif

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And as far as Stoner goes ............... how old was Rossi when he won his first Moto GP Championship? I forgot ............. was he 21? lmao.gif

 

Emotion aside lets look at the facts: Stoner has zero world championships....I realize you are a Ducati guy and all, but granting him not only this years but apparently numerous other championships based on one years performance (and a partial year at that) is a bit over the top....Stoner will most likely win this year and then he will join the elite ranks of a MotoGP champion, like Hayden, Roberts Jr, Schwantz and others, nothing to sneeze at but hardly the same thing as Rossi has accomplished. Remember when Rossi was criticized for riding the "best" bike...well he switched manufacturers and still won....now Stoner is on the "best" bike and is winning....he has lots to prove before he can be added to the short list of multi time winners….something he may still do but I bet lots of folks expected Hayden to make a strong run this year also….

 

One equal bikes/tires I doubt Stoner could even keep Rossi in sight…..as for taking on Spies we will see, he will be coming to MotoGP in 2009…….

 

FYI, Rossi won his first 125cc championship in 1997, 250cc in 1999, 500cc in 2001, 1000cc in 2002- 2005...a pretty amazing record even if he never wins again....

 

Stoner came close but lost to Pedrosa in the 250's the last time I checked....

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There's no doubt in my mind that Rossi is the best rider in the world that I have ever had the pleasure to watch racing a motorcycle and will be the benchmark for all others in the future to measure up against.

But ........ it's a little disconcerting to continue to hear or read between the lines that Stoner maybe a flash in the pan and possibly end up like Hayden has this year.

I for one ......... never believed that Nicky could pull it off again this year but I think Stoner can next year, will see.

 

PS: Yes, I am guilty of over reaching when it comes to the boys in RED, but this may very well be the first time that Ducati has ever won the Moto GP Championship. Who can blame a Duc owner for getting excited about that? lurker.gif

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You're confusing races. The MV's were fighting for top 10 in AMA Superbike...which is also insanely boring right now.

 

You're right. I watched both races back-to-back and must have dozed off during the AMA race and woke up at the end of the GP race. grin.gif

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So, You really think that the tire rules should go back to the way there were, when Michelin could take all the data they got from the track on Thursday -Sat. and make sets of tires for their riders Sat. evening to be used on Sunday?

 

Yes. I think it should be the best of the best on Sunday. If Bridgestone wants to compete with that, they need to figure out a way to do the same as Michelin.

 

I can see the other poster's side about it becoming a money game, but I think if the racing's good, then the people will come, and with the masses come sponsors (and their dollars). wink.gif

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There's no doubt in my mind that Rossi is the best rider in the world that I have ever had the pleasure to watch racing a motorcycle and will be the benchmark for all others in the future to measure up against.

But ........ it's a little disconcerting to continue to hear or read between the lines that Stoner maybe a flash in the pan and possibly end up like Hayden has this year.

I for one ......... never believed that Nicky could pull it off again this year but I think Stoner can next year, will see.

 

PS: Yes, I am guilty of over reaching when it comes to the boys in RED, but this may very well be the first time that Ducati has ever won the Moto GP Championship. Who can blame a Duc owner for getting excited about that? lurker.gif

 

Gee, Jerry, it's almost as if Harley were winning the MotoGP Championship with a rider in a half helmet and fingerless gloves.

 

Just pokin' ya in da ribs dere, bud. tongue.giftongue.gif

 

Actually, I am mightily impressed by young Mr. Stoner. I was being pulled in two directions at the start of this year. The first for Nicky to win the Championship in a more dominating fashion and put to rest the notion that he didn't so much win it last year as Rossi/Yamaha "lost" it. The second attraction was for Rossi to win again, using his experience and guile to overcome an underpowered machine. Us old guys love it when experience and treachery carries the day over youth and exhuberance.

 

However, neither seems to be happening. That said, it would be easy for me to not cheer Ducati IFIFIFIF they were dominating all the way around, the way Honda used to. But they're not. Capirossi is but a ghost of his former self this year. So, while there's no doubt that the Duc is a fantastic bike, it's not an all-conquering bike in and of itself. However, it is when Casey's on board. And that, a combination of bike and rider, is something I can get excited about.

 

Kudos to Ducati and Casey for their success so far this year. Not only have they been dominant, but Casey has been handling things with modesty in front of the microphones and with clean aggressive riding out on the track. He's earned my respect.

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And as far as Stoner goes ............... how old was Rossi when he won his first Moto GP Championship? I forgot ............. was he 21? lmao.gif

 

Emotion aside lets look at the facts: Stoner has zero world championships....I realize you are a Ducati guy and all, but granting him not only this years but apparently numerous other championships based on one years performance (and a partial year at that) is a bit over the top....Stoner will most likely win this year and then he will join the elite ranks of a MotoGP champion, like Hayden, Roberts Jr, Schwantz and others, nothing to sneeze at but hardly the same thing as Rossi has accomplished. Remember when Rossi was criticized for riding the "best" bike...well he switched manufacturers and still won....now Stoner is on the "best" bike and is winning....he has lots to prove before he can be added to the short list of multi time winners….something he may still do but I bet lots of folks expected Hayden to make a strong run this year also….

 

One equal bikes/tires I doubt Stoner could even keep Rossi in sight…..as for taking on Spies we will see, he will be coming to MotoGP in 2009…….

 

FYI, Rossi won his first 125cc championship in 1997, 250cc in 1999, 500cc in 2001, 1000cc in 2002- 2005...a pretty amazing record even if he never wins again....

 

Stoner came close but lost to Pedrosa in the 250's the last time I checked....

 

Why do you say Stoner is on the best bike, there are three others in the race. He may be just something special.

 

"Winners are grinner's, losers can please themselves".

 

Ian smile.gifthumbsup.gif

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If he was that special he would have beat Pedrosa on the 250's already....or won the 125 series...

 

Ducati has clearly figured it out this year and my hat is off to them...best power in the straights, great tire management, traction control that is clearly working and a great rider....a winning combination for sure and one they should be very proud of....but this rush to crown Casey the next unbeatable rider is simply premature in my opinion.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I always love to see an Australian do well (dad grew up in Sydney)….and Ducati beating the big 4 is also nice but until Casey has at least 3 world championships to his name he will just be one of the best and not on the short list of the very best riders….

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If he was that special he would have beat Pedrosa on the 250's already....or won the 125 series...

 

Ducati has clearly figured it out this year and my hat is off to them...best power in the straights, great tire management, traction control that is clearly working and a great rider....a winning combination for sure and one they should be very proud of....but this rush to crown Casey the next unbeatable rider is simply premature in my opinion.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I always love to see an Australian do well (dad grew up in Sydney)….and Ducati beating the big 4 is also nice but until Casey has at least 3 world championships to his name he will just be one of the best and not on the short list of the very best riders….

 

"Best power in the straights"?

 

Last GP

 

Top Speed:

Pedrosa - 294.1

Stoner - 292.8

Capirossi - 291.6

Barros - 291.1

Hayden - 289.8

 

I don't think so

Ian smile.gif

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You will not get any/many Aussies spouting Stoner as the next unbeatable.....that is not our style/custom lmao.gif( we will leave that to our rep Jerry Mather thumbsup.gif ).

 

What is good to see that Stoner has got there on mostly his ability alone unlike others. Motorcycle racing is a sub culture here but we have pumped out Gardiner, Doohan, Mladin and Stoner recently...... and there are quite a few others lurking lmao.gif ....so watch out.

I am a big Rossi fan and until this season would have thought him the best ever but also now wonder how much his tyres have helped him, as no doubt tyres are hindering him this season.

To see better racing the other teams have to catch up to one of the Ducatis and it's rider. If Capirossi is on the same bike he is not setting the world on fire IF this bike as some suggest is so much better than anything else.

I do not know what is going on at Honda. If they have anointed Pedrosa as their no. 1 rider as some have suggested (normally Hayden fans grin.gif )and whether he is up for it is debatable. Yes he shone in 125 and 250 but was his weight and factory backing more than a minor factor. No doubt he is a great rider and maybe more preferred by Honda than Hayden.

 

"One equal bikes/tires I doubt Stoner could even keep Rossi in sight"

All Stoner would have to do would be to turn around grin.gif

 

"lots of folks expected Hayden to make a strong run this year also…."

Not outside of America wink.gif

 

Mick Doohan commented last year that racing/riding a bike also includes setup. I believe Rossi over the last seven or eight seasons has been the best at this with his crew chief Jerry Burgess ( another Australian wink.gif they are everywhere) and mechanics. I think Stoner and his team have been the best at it so far this year. What was interesting was that I think Doohan said that other riders (and he referred to Hayden?) were not so good at setting the bike up.

 

What has been interesting to see is the number of people on this board who have jumped off the Haydon/MotoGP bandwaggon or have jumped on the bash Stoner/Ducati bandwaggon ......the racing is boring/Ducatis have an unfair advantage/ it's not the rider its the bike/ it's because of the tyres/ blah blah blah. To be honest Rossi (and Doohan) has dominated the sport for a long while and rode within himself with the others chasing or being chased till the last couple of laps and then he moved up to another level which was not matched and galloped away. It was a type of racing, it was predictable, and was rarely criticised. This years racing has been predictable and for us Aussies ( and Jerry and Ducati fans ) exciting but not so for others. However, if the other teams can consistently come up to the level that Ducati is at the moment then the racing could go back to the pre-Rossi days when the top four/five riders can race closely for an entire race and finding a winner not so easy

 

Personally I thought luck paid a huge part last year (good for some bad for others) but at the end of the day the winner is the best rider and best wishes to him. This year Stoner has out ridden the field and should/will continue to do so barring injury/mechanical failure (touches head = touch wood). He will probably win the title, and if so will be the best rider in 2007 If....IF Stoner wins this year it will be harder to win next year.

lurker.giflurker.giflurker.gif

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at the end of the day the winner is the best rider and best wishes to him.

 

No, the winner is the winner. Quibbling about tire availability or mechanical failures or luck misses the bigger picture. The world champion is the person who wins the most points across a season. The sour grapes about Hayden last year is just as absurd as the stuff about Stoner and tires this year.

 

There's more to winning the championship than having the best rider, the best bike, or even a combination of the two. It doesn't make sense to cry about the rules, because those are the rules that the game is played under. Get 'em changed, but don't try to put an asterisk next to wins because of them.

 

By the same token, I don't see how Jerry or anyone can consider this season's racing exciting, especially if Stoner's your man.

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russell_bynum

What has been interesting to see is the number of people on this board who have jumped off the Haydon/MotoGP bandwaggon or have jumped on the bash Stoner/Ducati bandwaggon

 

Learn to read.

 

Nobody is bashing Stoner or Ducati.

 

......the racing is boring

 

The racing IS boring. It has nothing to do with who's winning...when you have a 28-lap parade, that's not good racing.

 

/Ducatis have an unfair advantage/

 

Nobody has said that Ducati's advantage is unfair. I'm not even convinced that Ducati always has the advantage. Clearly there have been places where their straight line speed has made the difference (like China), but that's not an unfair advantage, that's an advantage.

 

it's not the rider its the bike/

 

Anyone who's saying that hasn't taken notice of where Capirossi and Barros are at the end of the race.

 

it's because of the tyres/

 

It's not BECAUSE of the tires...but the tires are definitely playing a role...for the most part Bridgestone is getting it done better that Michelin this year. Would Casey be so dominant on inferior tires? I doubt it. Example: This is the first time since Rossi joined the premier class (2001?) that he hasn't been a major force. Even last year when he had equipment problems and a tremendous string of bad luck, he was still up there. Now he's riding harder and more on the edge than I've ever seen him ride....and he's a zillion points off. It's possible that Yamaha just got the new bike totally wrong, but that certainly doesn't seem to be the case based on what we've seen and heard. The Michelin's aren't getting it done.

 

Is that unfair? No, but it does give an advantage to Bridgestones.

 

To be honest Rossi (and Doohan) has dominated the sport for a long while and rode within himself with the others chasing or being chased till the last couple of laps and then he moved up to another level which was not matched and galloped away.

 

Yep. Like Phillip Island in 2003 when Rossi was running 4th or something, made a pass under a waving yellow, was given a 10 second penalty, and immediately checked out and won the race by 15 seconds. That wasn't particularly good racing either.

 

This years racing has been predictable and for us Aussies ( and Jerry and Ducati fans ) exciting but not so for others.

 

The racing is not exciting. You get excited over the winner (and that is cool!) and the Ducatisti get excited about red bikes in P1 (which is also really cool!), but the racing is boring as hell. Take off anything that lets you identify the riders and the manufacturer and you'd see the truth.

 

Last year, if I had to pick one rider to root for, it was Nicky. But the racing was awesome most of the time regardless of who won. Tons of overtaking, close finishes, etc. That's good racing. This is not good racing. It's a 28-lap parade and that's boring as hell to watch. If it were Nicky up there, I'd be happy about that, but it would still be boring racing. (Laguna Seca 2005 when Nicky dominated the race from flag to flag...that was a boring race except for the brief dual between Rossi and Edwards.)

 

 

However, if the other teams can consistently come up to the level that Ducati is at the moment then the racing could go back to the pre-Rossi days when the top four/five riders can race closely for an entire race and finding a winner not so easy

 

That's what we had last year. I'd love to have that again.

 

 

Personally I thought luck paid a huge part last year (good for some bad for others) but at the end of the day the winner is the best rider and best wishes to him.

 

Absolutely. Sete basically ended Loris' challenge with that crash at Barcelona (and Pedrosa was in that mess too, wasn't he?). Elias knocked Rossi down in Jerez and cost him big. Then he had two equipment-related DNF's (Le Mans and Laguna Seca), and the whole first part of the season he struggled with chatter problems. What followed was a great example of what to do and what not to do. Yamaha buckled down and got to work fixing the problem. Honda ignored everything that Nicky was saying about the clutch problems on the Evolution RC211V and we saw his lead slowly erode. Melandri showed lots of promise. Stoner was very fast when he didn't fall down. (I said many times last year...that if Stoner figured out how to stay on the bike, he'd be a major threat.)

 

 

This year Stoner has out ridden the field and should/will continue to do so barring injury/mechanical failure (touches head = touch wood). He will probably win the title, and if so will be the best rider in 2007

 

I totally agree...and major kudos to him. The winner is the rider with the best package (rider, bike, team, tires)and this year there's absolutely no way to deny that Stoner is the one.

 

Personally...I hope Michelin either figures it out or the big players switch to 'stones. I think a real fight between all the top riders would be supremely entertaining.

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ericfoerster

Laguna Seca 2005 when Nicky dominated the race from flag to flag...that was a boring race except for the brief dual between Rossi and Edwards.)

 

 

Thats easy for you to say tongue.gif

 

I didn't know who to pull for lmao.giflmao.giflmao.gif

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russell_bynum

I didn't know who to pull for

 

You won no matter what. You're a Rossi fan, a Texan, and an American. You came out great!

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ericfoerster

You won no matter what. You're a Rossi fan, a Texan, and an American. You came out great!

 

thumbsup.gif

 

I still laugh about all the fun that crazy weekend.

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russell_bynum
You won no matter what. You're a Rossi fan, a Texan, and an American. You came out great!

 

thumbsup.gif

 

I still laugh about all the fun that crazy weekend.

 

No kidding.

 

We were having a ball yelling "QUACK QUACK" at Gleno every time Eric Bostrom came down Rainey curve ahead of the Suzukis. The $7 Hot Dogs...GOOD LAWD!!!!! 990 Grand Prix bikes screaming past the fence 15' from our heads at full-tilt boogie. Then there's the whole rental car shenanegains...but I won't go into that right now. smile.gif $300 DOLLAS FO A HUB CAP??? GOOD LAWD!!!!

 

lmao.gif

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I propose the following test for race excitement: If the TV camera is focused on the battle for 3-4-5 for 5 or more laps and the leader is not shown during that time frame then it’s NOT an exciting race, at least not for the winner. We have seen that several times this year and even more often in AMA Superbike. AMA could not even fill the grid last weekend with the 10% cut off. Supersport is a different story with 39 riders. I have never seen that many riders at once in a track day session. At what point do you break it down to bracket racing heats leading to the final race?

 

MotoGP is about technology so bring it on. Limiting the quantity of tires seems stupid. Fuel seems a little more complex issue. Going to 800cc was proposed to slow things down. The bikes had gotten to a point where they were out running tire technology and track design from a safety standpoint. I think everyone figured out pretty quick that cutting engine size alone wasn’t doing it. Reduction of the fuel load along with smaller displacement should slow things down while the engineers figure out how to produce more energy out of the same gallon of fuel. And we are back to technology.

thumbsup.gif

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By the same token, I don't see how Jerry or anyone can consider this season's racing exciting, especially if Stoner's your man.

 

Think of it this way .......... Your a Ducati lover that loves the underdog and your guys are slaying the GIANTS at their own game not just once in a while but time and time again, that's friggin exciting. This small little Italian company that's been on the fence financially that's makes a tenth of the amount of Superbikes as just one of the other guys may very well walk away with the Manufacture and Rider Championship Titles in the best motorcycle contest in the world. This is no small feat and it's hard not to be out of your mind with pride for these guys as an owner.

 

As far as the racing between the other guys goes ...... YES it's NOT as much fun to watch as say it was when Rossi & Sete were battling it out until the last turn on the last lap.

I'd love to see that again but it doesn't seem that the other guys are in the same class as Ducati is right now, maybe next year they will be and we'll be back to some more entertaining racing for the fans.

 

Stoner told me that he's getting lonely out there in front all the time and wants you guys/ fans to send some positive vibes to your teams so he can have a party up front with them because his throttle is stuck all the way open and can't slow down right now! lmao.gif

VIVA ITALIA

 

Are we going to have the same kind of talks next year if Ducati starts sweeping in AMA Superbike class because they have a bigger bike an the other guys? lurker.gif

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