Y'know, I try. I REALLY try to give HD riders the benefit of the doubt. But....

[NEOHMark]

....I was on my way home tonight on a glorious ride from doing some spackling and sanding/prep work at my kid's house in Akron. And I figured I'd take the long way home enroute to the local grocer who carries some pretty darn good steaks in their meat case. That means going through Canal Fulton - a 'biker' haven of a town with two bars - one on each side of the meandering township limits joined by a county road 2-laner.

 

So I get to THE intersection of town and I turn right - heading toward my destination. A patron of bar #1 pulls out directly into my path - forcing me to get on the brakes a bit. No big deal really, so I settle in behind him and maintain a 2-second gap while the road gets into more rural settings. I BELIEVE this guy is on a Honda cruiser - judging by the teardrop tailight and the shaft drive.

 

Meanwhile, as I 'let' cruiser rider #1 out, HD rider smartly stays in his street-curb parking space and lets me by.

 

So....now I'm between Honda cruiser rider #1 and HD cruiser rider #2. I can see in my mirrors and on the way by his parking space, HD rider has apehangers and about three large tattoos on each arm.

 

So I take the 'nice guy' approach. Normally, I'd take this rural 2-laner about 10-over the posted 45 mph limit all the way to my turnoff (beyond the next 'biker bar'). But Honda rider is cruising fairly slowly - about 1-5 mph UNDER the posted limit. No prob - I stay well back, maintaining a 2-second gap (yes - I do occasionally 'count' the seconds between the vehicle infront of me).

 

HD rider seems to be a bit perturbed that I've 'taken' the space between his buddy and him and is squarely on my ass. I don't get too annoyed by it, and maintain the 2-second gap between Honda rider and me. I'm thinking I'm being a gentleman and a nice guy.

 

So we get a couple miles down the road and HD rider ROARS past me and into the way-too-small gap I've left between Honda rider and me and settles into a staggered formation.

 

Now I'm pissed. I've stayed back out of respect for Honda rider, and idiot HD rider invades my space. I didn't wave him by, and there SURE as hell wasn't enough room between Honda rider and me to prudently force a pass. NOW I'm sucking too-rich fumes of both riders and suffering ear damage from the straight pipes of HD rider. Now I start thinking - WTF? I would normally ride this VERY rural highway about 10+ mph higher than I am now, but because I'm a nice guy, I let THESE two idiots play 'Cruiser Cool' in front of me.....with a fairly dangerous and illegal pass occur between us????

 

BS!

 

So these two clowns settle into staggered formation - about 1-5 mph UNDER the posted limit. Nice! I can get fairly close up to HD rider and bide my time until the next legal passing zone occurs. When it does, and there's not another vehicle in sight coming the other way, I drop a gear and blow by both of them.

 

Guess what? I hear the BOTH of them yell F*CK! and flip me the bird as I execute a quick-but legal pass. Like *I'M* supposed to stay stranded behind THESE two idiots when the moron HD rider just passed me in a totally unsafe manner?!?!?!?!?

 

This kind of thing makes it hard...VERY hard to take the entire HD culture seriously as riders. I'm sorry, I know the mantra is 'not what you ride, but THAT you ride'......but when s#itheads like this pull crap like that, it makes it very hard to respect them.

 

And yes - I KNOW I could've (probably should've) stayed back and enjoyed the leisurely pace of a 1-5 mph under cruise, BUT I could've just as easily passed the Honda rider immediately upon encountering that first passing zone.

 

But then again, HD rider might've smashed right up my ass since he was in such a hurry to 'buddy up' with his friend.

[russell_bynum]

Don't get hung up on brands...there's plenty of a-holes on every brand of bike.

[glockster]

Don't get hung up on brands...there's plenty of a-holes on every brand of bike.

 

No way I could have said it any better!

[Tony_K]

Also remember it is SUMMER. This fact brings out the seasonal 3 month riders as well as new riders. Attitudes and exposed flesh... yes, this is summer.

[russell_bynum]

Don't get hung up on brands...there's plenty of a-holes on every brand of bike.

 

No way I could have said it any better!

 

Yep...you and I are living proof.

 

[Warren_H]

You did the right thing - I wouldn't stay follow any body who just left a bar.

[IanW]

I do not know the road rules in your location but in Australia if you did not intend to pass the rider in front (you said you did not) you should have left enough space for the rider behind to pass you and all would have been well. If everybody traveled as you did a line of several vehicles could form and make it difficult for someone who wanted to travel at the speed limit to pass.

 

Ian.

[leikam]

To make a long story short, you got passed and that pissed you off. To make yourself feel better, you pass him back and piss off both of them. Personal retribution isn't enough so you pull out the big brushes and condemn the entire subculture you think these guys are a part of. Does that about sum up your ride?

 

Thank you for posting this cautionary tale. Hopefully we can all avoid this situation on down the road.

[Matts_12GS]

To make a long story short, you got passed and that pissed you off. To make yourself feel better, you pass him back and piss off both of them. Personal retribution isn't enough so you pull out the big brushes and condemn the entire subculture you think these guys are a part of. Does that about sum up your ride?

 

Thank you for posting this cautionary tale. Hopefully we can all avoid this situation on down the road.

 

Well said!

[TyTass]

Easy leikam. So ... what? One broad brush judgment deserves one in return? Obviously this man has become annoyed with the lack of road ettiquette he described, and HIS baysian statistics leads him to conclude is cruisers and/or HD riders. That's his experience and opinion. Nothing more.

 

For my part, I find it ironic and humorous after reading thread-upon-thread of complaining about cagers and newbie riders that so many on this board are so terribly sensitive when someone complains of other types of riders.

[BereIsland]

Perhaps we should try to be dispassionate about these things, bike 1 in front, bike 2(yourself)2 seconds behind bike 1, bike 3 overtakes bike 2, bike 2 falls back to maintain 2 second gap, bike 2 overtakes bike 1 and 2 when its safe to do so. Now if bike's 1 & 3 gets upset, well that's their problem, they will have to deal with it, but bike 2 must concentrate on their own riding.

 

Steve

[keithb]

I would have returned the "gesture" with pleasure based on a recent experience with a group of riders while riding home from Torrey.

[russell_bynum]

For my part, I find it ironic and humorous after reading thread-upon-thread of complaining about cagers and newbie riders that so many on this board are so terribly sensitive when someone complains of other types of riders.

 

Complaining about "other types of riders", when the type of rider in question is "*ssholes" is fine.

 

Pretending that the problem was the brand of bike they were riding, is not.

 

FWIW, I had the exact same thing happen to me once when I was in the car. A rider pulled out of a local biker bar RIGHT in front of me. His buddy pulled out right behind and proceeded to pass me on the wrong side of the road on a blind turn. He slid in across my front bumper and just about nailed his buddy, who was in front of me going 10-under. Then they proceeded to cruise along at 5-10mph under the limit on a tight twisty 2-lane. We came to the one legal passing zone and as soon as they saw me pull out to pass, they nailed it. I tucked back in, and as soon as we got to the end of the passing zone, they slowed back down to 10-under.

 

Those riders were *ssholes and it doesn't matter what they were riding.

[Ken H.]

Reminds me of an old driver's ed instructor:

 

Q - "If your following someone by two seconds and someone passes you and takes up the gap, what should you do?"

 

A - "Slow down long enough to re-establish the two-second gap."

 

Q - What should you do if it happens again and you're confident your speed is still appropriate for the current situation?"

 

A - "Slow down long enough to re-establish the two-second gap."

 

Q. - "What do you do if it happens a third time, do you still think you are driving appropriately, at the correct following distance, speed, etc.?"

 

A - "Slow down long enough to re-establish the two-second gap."

 

And if a four, then a fifth, then a sixth person does the same thing?"

 

A - "Slow down long enough to re-establish the two-second gap."

 

 

The point is the repetition, action of others, emotions, etc, don't alter the correct response.

 

Easy to say, hard to do I know. But true never-the-less.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Or, just take the Shovelstroke approach, a handful of Blackbird throttle solves all of these issues. By the time they realize I had passed, I'd be so far ahead that I wouldn't have seen the 1 finger salute in my mirrors and the shouted "Fack" would just have been part of the background to my XM tunes.

 

I probably would have applied that solution to bike #1, very shortly after he pulled out in front of me, legal passing zone or not. He and #2 would then be free to putter along at their leisure or try and catch me, NOT.

[Mr_Ed]

To make a long story short, you got passed and that pissed you off. To make yourself feel better, you pass him back and piss off both of them.

 

Yeesh leikam.... He indicated that he passed the two bikes using a legal passing zone and indicated that there was no on-coming traffic. I fail to understand your strong, negative reaction. I don't mean to be inflamatory but perhaps you've been passed a few times and took it personally yourself?

 

Personally if I'm caught behind someone going at a pace less than what I prefer and there's a chance to safely pass I take advantage of it. If someone takes offense to being passed IN a Passing Zone I'd say that that's their problem. If I opted to stay behind them and they happened to be generating fumes and noise (which was happening in this case) I'm making it MY problem. The choice seems clear to me.

[leikam]

Empathy with the situation doesn't entail endorsement of the response any more than claiming to be a "nice guy" makes it so.

 

All in all, the description read like an accident report which in a way it was: he arrived home in worse shape than when he left. And what's the point of crash reports in "ride well" if we cannot learn from the mistakes of others?

[duckbubbles]

Knowing myself, I would have passed rider #1 pretty darn quick after he got in front of me (10 under). Let them try to keep up on the "twisty two lane road" if they can. That would more than likely put an end to this whole episode.

 

Frank

[Stan Walker]

I'm thinking I'm being a gentleman and a nice guy.

 

But you were NOT being a nice guy at all.

 

You inserted yourself into their ride formation, then stayed close to the first rider leaving a "way-too-small gap" for the second rider if he does pass you.

 

A "nice guy" would have either backed off the first rider and waved the second rider past, or would have simply passed the first rider at the earliest opportunity. You didn't do either.

 

My two cents for today.

 

Stan

[russell_bynum]

You inserted yourself into their ride formation, then stayed close to the first rider leaving a "way-too-small gap" for the second rider if he does pass you.

 

The way I read it, the other riders inserted themselves on either side of the OP. i.e. One pulled out directly in front of him and the other pulled out behind.

 

 

A "nice guy" would have either backed off the first rider and waved the second rider past, or would have simply passed the first rider at the earliest opportunity. You didn't do either.

 

I do agree there.

 

I probably would have just passed (legal or not...screw it. As long as I've got sight lines and there's no LEO's, I'll pass), or waved the other guy around if there wasn't a good place to pass and it was obvious that they were together.

 

I don't know how it happened in this case, but when it happened to me when I was in my truck, the first guy pulled out right in front of me (I had to brake to avoid hitting him), the other guy pulled out immediately behind, and passed me (in the wrong lane around a blind turn) within about 15 seconds of pulling out...so there wasn't time for me to do anything. The problem was 100% caused by the first rider rushing to get out ahead of me (there were no cars behind me for a long ways) and the other rider making that stupid pass.

 

I would have just written it off at that point except for the fact that they nailed it when they saw me trying to pass...then slowed back down to 10-under as soon as the passing zone was done.

[awagnon]

I can't comment on what happened leading up to the original poster's passing the other two bikes. Probably everyone was a little wrong and it all started with the Honda pulling out too close. However, when you pass someone legally, for whatever the reason, and they yell f**k at you and give you the finger, it shows a significant lack of class. And yes, if you want to call it painting with a broad brush, it does seem to be more often a certain type of rider, on a certain type of bike, often with overly loud pipes. Call it what you want, but I agree with the OP. There seems to be a pattern.

[Stan Walker]

the other riders inserted themselves on either side of the OP. i.e. One pulled out directly in front of him and the other pulled out behind.

 

Yes, origianally. But the OP goes on to say "So we get a couple miles down the road...." Based on the OP's comments this is all being done at less than the speed limit (possibly in the hope that the OP would go ahead and pass).

 

I wonder how many more miles would have been done if the trailing rider hadn't made the pass that so pissed off the OP.

 

Stan

 

[SHOman]

Thanks for the reminder.

 

"patron of bar #1 pulls out"...

 

AKA alcohol impaired judgement most likely to follow regardless of bike and type of rider.

[DaveTheAffable]

I'm sympathetic, while trying to be affable. I would have wrestled with it too.

 

1) Some brands attract 'types' of people. Incredibly unfair to lump them all together. I've noted that some of the worst cage drivers drivers here in L.A. are BMW car owners. Proud, arrogant, and "I own the road" attitude. Surely that isn't the brands fault.

 

2) I care a lot about people. I care that you were safe.

 

3) You could have gotten home sooner had this not happened. But the time spent venting, and typing your post, took that away. Worst case scenario... something could have gone wrong. Best case... arrive home 5 minutes later, but relaxed.

 

4) Venting is important! Especially amongst friends.

[Little Joe]

Perhaps you didn't specify the make of bike so as not to add fuel to the fire, Russell, and I can understand. That said, if forced to bet, I'd put up $50 that the riders in your story WERE on HD's. Sad to say, there is often a reason that stereotypes exist. The attitude that permits (or requires) an unsafe pass, followed by slowing to 10 under the limit, then a refusal to allow passing when it is safe, is one I have personally seen exhibited only by HD riders. YMMV.

 

Of course, the only thing that made me think it HAD to be HD's was the "10 under". I've seen just about every other type of a$$hole behavior on any make you can name, even BMW.

[russell_bynum]

Perhaps you didn't specify the make of bike so as not to add fuel to the fire, Russell, and I can understand. That said, if forced to bet, I'd put up $50 that the riders in your story WERE on HD's.

 

Lead rider: ST1100

Trailing rider: ZX12R

[bvaughan]

Lead rider: ST1100

Trailing rider: ZX12R

yeah, but they rode 'em like they were harleys.

[Little Joe]

Perhaps you didn't specify the make of bike so as not to add fuel to the fire, Russell, and I can understand. That said, if forced to bet, I'd put up $50 that the riders in your story WERE on HD's.

 

Lead rider: ST1100

Trailing rider: ZX12R

 

My bad. Call me a makist, and shocked to boot. I thought only sensible old farts like me rode ST1100's. Whoops, more stereotyping. I gotta get out more.

[AviP]

Don't get hung up on brands...there's plenty of a-holes on every brand of bike.

[Knifemaker]

As an owner of several brands of bikes (including HD) I can be an a...hole too. Even though I CHOOSE not to be..

[tallman]

Excellent point about the bar. And, from your post it seems you had local knowledge of the potential for such an encounter. Perhaps this caused a change in your perception or reactions.

I'd have passed the first bike ASALP.

A wave, a thumb's up, and let them continue their ride whilst I took care of mine.

When you intentionally. or unintenionally, insinuate your bike amidst 2 or more others, you have helped create a situation where eveyone's riding dynamics have changed.

All riders in such a situation need to either work together to maintain the staus quo, or act unilaterally and create a new paradigm.

As for this situation, BTDT. I've passed, I've slowed way down, I've stopped , but I try like heck to not involve my ride with someone else unless there is no other choice, or if it is by choice.

Two rights can make a wrong, but 4 rights will get you back where you were.

[TyTass]

As an owner of several brands of bikes (including HD) I can be an a...hole too. Even though I CHOOSE not to be..

Ooops, too late, Bill!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding!

 

Seriously, I like what you said in another thread ... Just Ride Your Own Ride! Having learned to take complaining to an art during my navy career , I now have to force myself to stop worrying about the a--holes to squeeze every moment of enjoyment out of every ride/life. There are lots of a--holes out there, too.

 

Barth's Distinction ...

There are two types of people: those who divide people into two types, and those who don't.

 

If I had to say I personally have trouble with a certain brand/model/type of anything it'd be pick-up truck & large SUV drivers in my area. But of course, there are about a bazillion p/u trucks and large SUV drivers around here and there doesn't seem be any one stereotype. So, I can only presume my difficulties tend to be due to a pervasive attitude of entitlement: Tonnage Rules!

 

As for HD riders around here, well there are a bazillion of those too. However, it's nearly impossible to NOT to find similarities in dress, ride style, habits, etc. in the overwhelming majority of them. I won't say they are a--holes riders because I've not experienced any incidents with any (whether I'm on a bike or in a cage). I've ridden behind, around, and near a bazillion of them. I don't mind them passing me (on those rare times that occurs). But what I can say is that on any nice weekend around here, I'll see as many HDs in parking lots of bars/pubs (almost exclusively HD at that) as I see out on the road. That said, I can't say that I've seen one drive away obviously drunk - but I won't assume they're not just to be "fair", either. So, I ride clear ASAP.

[BigArn]

Or, just take the Shovelstroke approach, a handful of Blackbird throttle solves all of these issues. By the time they realize I had passed, I'd be so far ahead that I wouldn't have seen the 1 finger salute in my mirrors and the shouted "Fack" would just have been part of the background to my XM tunes.

 

I probably would have applied that solution to bike #1, very shortly after he pulled out in front of me, legal passing zone or not. He and #2 would then be free to putter along at their leisure or try and catch me, NOT.

 

+1

[russell_bynum]

However, it's nearly impossible to NOT to find similarities in dress, ride style, habits, etc. in the overwhelming majority of them.

 

Unlike all of those individualist BMW riders with matching aerostiches, GPS, AutoCom, V1, and CeeBailey windscreens.

[Silver Surfer/AKAButters]

For my part, I find it ironic and humorous after reading thread-upon-thread of complaining about cagers and newbie riders that so many on this board are so terribly sensitive when someone complains of other types of riders.

 

Complaining about "other types of riders", when the type of rider in question is "*ssholes" is fine.

 

Pretending that the problem was the brand of bike they were riding, is not.

 

FWIW, I had the exact same thing happen to me once when I was in the car. A rider pulled out of a local biker bar RIGHT in front of me. His buddy pulled out right behind and proceeded to pass me on the wrong side of the road on a blind turn. He slid in across my front bumper and just about nailed his buddy, who was in front of me going 10-under. Then they proceeded to cruise along at 5-10mph under the limit on a tight twisty 2-lane. We came to the one legal passing zone and as soon as they saw me pull out to pass, they nailed it. I tucked back in, and as soon as we got to the end of the passing zone, they slowed back down to 10-under.

 

Those riders were *ssholes and it doesn't matter what they were riding.

 

Yep! Times like this are a good point to pul over and take a break. Works best for me.

[Hoover]

It's funny....but it's true. While I have received tude from members of the cruiser community over the years, some of the nicest folks I have met on trips ride HDs or a cruiser. IMHO sport bikers are by far the worst offenders of any sort of road etiquette. I see too many of them riding way too far over their head, and in the Colorado mountians it seems that 2 out of 3 rides anymore ends with me passing an accident scene with one of them cracking their bike up on the side of the road, and I ride a sport bike (but I am not one of them......really!)

 

All types of bikes can have an a*hole owner, Sport, Cruiser, Touring, dirt, you name it. We all have some across atl east one in every class. I am sure people have called me an a*hole or an idiot once or twice when my throttle hand got a twitch in it that "has" to be worked out.

 

What I try to do is remind myself that I have to get home safe. While when something like this happens, me blowing by someone in an unsafe passing area might feel good at the moment, but it could have catatrophic effects on my wife and kids if I end up the hood ornament on someone's car.

 

Always ensure you will be able to ride another day.

[TyTass]

Unlike all of those individualist BMW riders with matching aerostiches, GPS, AutoCom, V1, and CeeBailey windscreens.

I agree with you whole-heartedly! Replace the Aerostitch with "lesser" brands, a VTechnic for the CB w/s, and wait a couple months for a V1, and I'm no different. So, guilty as charged, your Honor!

 

The point really was to make was to add that despite my experience of being able to identify a negative image of seeing so many HD bikes at bars, I cannot conclude anyone get's drunk! And while I think it's clear that most Harley guys ride different than all "us" Beemer riders in our own "uniforms" and farkles, that is simply due to the type of riding the bike is best suited. It ain't wrong, it's just different.

 

Cruisin' isn't my cup of tea and I don't understand the desire to ride a bike to a bar at 1:00 on a Sat afternoon, but to each his own. I agree with the points made here in response ... hard to typify an HD riding profile that is a--hole-ish.

 

Now, as far as I'm concerned, all bets are off for p/u truck & large SUV drivers in my area who don't seem to understand the concept of "lanes"! But I don't understand it ... they don't even dress alike!

[russell_bynum]

Yeah, I'm with you...I was just yankin' yer chain a bit.

 

I don't understand the "ride to the bar" thing either, but I totally understand the draw of a cruiser. If I had the resources to justify having a bike like that, I'd have one.

[Kinsley]

Or, just take the Shovelstroke approach, a handful of Blackbird throttle solves all of these issues. By the time they realize I had passed, I'd be so far ahead that I wouldn't have seen the 1 finger salute in my mirrors and the shouted "Fack" would just have been part of the background to my XM tunes.

 

I probably would have applied that solution to bike #1, very shortly after he pulled out in front of me, legal passing zone or not. He and #2 would then be free to putter along at their leisure or try and catch me, NOT.

 

Ed's approach is best, but then there wouldn't be this thread on this board because it would have been a non issue for us. There would, however be a thread on some cruiser board describing how rudely they were passed and what Cruiser #1 and cruiser #2 should have done to keep you from offending them.

[NEOHMark]

I thank you all for replying to my OP. After having a couple days to decompress and think about it, I realize I should've controlled my own destiny. EVERYtime I second-guess myself and let another vehicle in front of me dictate my fate, I end up being sorry for it. From now on it's, "First safe chance I get, the pass is being made." (Regardless of whether I'm in the cage or on the bike)

 

I could not do anything to avoid getting in between them BTW. I was literally on Rider #1's ass within 50 ft of making the turn into town. He simply never saw me coming round the corner. But I stupidly assumed rider #2 would be content to back off my ass just the same as I backed off rider #1's ass. Silly/stupid me for assuming the respect I was giving rider #1 would be reciprocated by rider #2.

 

And I'm sorry, but it IS a few bad cruiser apples (mostly HD riders just by the sheer numbers) who taint the whole barrel. Loud as hell pipes, drunken 'poker' runs and bike nights, skills that would be laughed at in any other rider who wasn't covered in tatoos and adorned with a doo rag, etc. Pardon me for blasphemizing an entire brand, but the numbers certainly skew their way. Fortunately, I know a few HD riders who are good friends who are great folks. Not great riders, mind you, but good people nonetheless.

 

Thanks again everyone for the responses. Even the critical ones (I'm a semi-pro umpire....I have thick skin )

[Mike O]

...If I had the resources to justify having a bike like that, I'd have one.

You and me both. There's a nice Victory cruiser with my name on it. I wouldn't mind toolin' around a bit on that bike. Problem is while my name is on it, I can't get my name on a check for it. (dual sport first!)

 

Mike O

[Matts_12GS]

the BEST HARLEY EVER....

(Thanks Mikey!)

 

[steveknapp]

r, just take the Shovelstroke approach, a handful of Blackbird throttle solves all of these issues.

 

Fsck'in honda riders.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

[wrestleantares]

Y'know, it is a pet peeve of mine when someone posts the exact same message on two boards. Especially when it is here and STN, as there is so much over lap in the groups.

 

Just my opinion. YMMV.

[NEOHMark]

Y'know, it is a pet peeve of mine when someone posts the exact same message on two boards. Especially when it is here and STN, as there is so much over lap in the groups.

 

Just my opinion. YMMV.

 

So just ignore one or the other?

 

FWIW - this one got 5+ pgs of responses while STN got barely 3.

 

Seems this group has more to say?