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Engine Ping


Kevin McKenna

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Kevin McKenna

At higher speeds, say 85mph and up, if I either accelerate to increase speed or just maintain grade I am getting what sounds like a timing ping. I thought on the '02 RT single spark, the timing was not adjustable..... Would the Hall Effect cause this?

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At higher speeds, say 85mph and up, if I either accelerate to increase speed or just maintain grade I am getting what sounds like a timing ping. I thought on the '02 RT single spark, the timing was not adjustable..... Would the Hall Effect cause this?

 

 

Kevin, that is awfully high RPM to hear & define a spark knock or ping.. Can you explain the noise you hear a little more? Any chance it is transmission gear rattle or some other type engine/trans rattle?..

 

You should be running open loop at 85 mph on a throttle up so assuming no plugged fuel filter or low pump output if you have a spark related knock @ 85 mph you should also have one at lower speeds in a high gear throttle up condition..

 

Watch your spark plugs for signs of electrode damage of signs of aluminum (first signs of high speed spark knocking damage).. Any chance you are running too hot of a spark plug?

 

You can back the ign timing off about 3° or so by retarding the hall mounting ring (the holes are slotted).. If you mark the mounting ring for position you can easily retard the spark slightly the if that doesn’t help easily put it back again.. (all you need to do is remove the front plastic engine cover to get to the hall sensor & retard that)..

 

Twisty

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Kevin McKenna

We'll without going out and getting on her, at the moment the best I can describe is that it sounds like a timing knock.... I can also make it knock if i "pop" the clutch from a dead stop and get on it.... Especially if the outside temp is very hot....I thought maybe the plugs and/or valve adj and Air Filter, so I did them over the weekend. The bike runs better, but "ping" is still there. I also ran a tank with injector cleaner... For the Fuel Filter, it is original and bike is an '02 with 27k

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Kevin McKenna

The best I can find is 93.... I use to use only Sunoco, their Ultra was 94, but in the North East, the Ultra is now 93...

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We'll without going out and getting on her, at the moment the best I can describe is that it sounds like a timing knock.... I can also make it knock if i "pop" the clutch from a dead stop and get on it.... Especially if the outside temp is very hot....I thought maybe the plugs and/or valve adj and Air Filter, so I did them over the weekend. The bike runs better, but "ping" is still there. I also ran a tank with injector cleaner... For the Fuel Filter, it is original and bike is an '02 with 27k

 

Kevin,

I think retarding the timing just a little is your best plan right now. Did you buy the bike new? Did it use a lot of oil during break-in? If so, you might have built up a bunch of carbon deposits in the heads. Some of the early Oilheads had the same problem and a service bulletin mentioned that removing the heads and removing the carbon was the only fix after the oil consumption ceased.

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The harsh knocking sound of detonation is indeed likely what you hear. Rolling on the throttle on a high gear or putting a heavy load on the motor by "dumping the clutch" are typical ways to start the detonation.

Also riding into a steep uphill (on too high gear) with WOT will likely do the same.

 

Many times the cause is that the engine is getting fouled up with carbon deposits.

 

Before starting to mess with ignition timing (obviously your HALL sensor has not failed since bike runs fine) I would:

 

1. Use good "injector cleaner" in couple tanks of gas. Many like the Techron, I like Red Line.

 

2. Give the bike an "Italian tune-up". Ride at high speeds/ high RPM's for couple of tankfuls.

 

3. To prevent the carbon from building up too bad again in the future, avoid lugging the engine at too low revs.

 

--

Mikko

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Kevin, welcome to the club. I started a thread on this very subject a little while ago. My symptons are identical to yours the way you desribe them.

I had a lot of advice (Italian tune-up among them) and nothing really worked. So I made a habit of filling up at Sunoco for the Ultra which here in Canada is 94, and that helped a lot, however the final touch,if one ride in the heat is telling the whole story, was some Octane booster I bought from Canadian Tire (a Canadian Automotive supplier, amongst other things).

I had her out pretty well all day yesterday and purposely tried to make her ping, e.g. accelerate in too higher gear or maintaining speed on a grade, to no avail. thumbsup.gif

 

So, admittadly, it's a little early to tell, but so far things look good.

The missing 1 Octane point at your Sunoca can probably be made up with a little extra Octane booster, but I am no expert in this.

 

Try it b4 you mess with timing etc, got nothing to loose.

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We'll without going out and getting on her, at the moment the best I can describe is that it sounds like a timing knock.... I can also make it knock if i "pop" the clutch from a dead stop and get on it.... Especially if the outside temp is very hot....I thought maybe the plugs and/or valve adj and Air Filter, so I did them over the weekend. The bike runs better, but "ping" is still there. I also ran a tank with injector cleaner... For the Fuel Filter, it is original and bike is an '02 with 27k

 

 

Kevin, you might try running a good hot engine compression test.. If at or below specs then probably not enough carbon to be an issue.. If your compression is very much above specs then possibly a carbon problem.. If your bike was an oil user in it’s early break-in period it’s possible you have a carbon issue..

 

Maybe also verify your temperature sensor in your air box is operating & you have good (re. proper) fuel pressure..

 

Also make sure the pink CCP is still installed in the fuse box..

 

I have a 2002 1150RT & that thing won’t even spark knock with the ign timing advanced to the end of the hall sensor slot.. I ride it hard so no chance of carbon & sometimes use premium & other times will top of with regular.. For some reason there does seem to be variance in those 1150’s ..

 

Any idea what your fuel economy is at constant 80-85 mph? That might tell us something right there..

 

If you can’t get a handle on the pinging you might try an aftermarket fuel controller (like the Techlusion 259) that will allow you to add fuel in the open loop above 4500 RPM range & even give you a little more top speed..

 

Twisty

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Kevin McKenna

I'm the second owner.... I bought this '02 in '05 with 1700 miles! I know, Three years old and 1700 miles? Now 2+ years I have 27k..... It did use some oil until 13k and then came to a complete stop....

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Kevin,

If you have access to a compression tester, do a hot test. If you are above 145psi it's most likely a carbon buildup problem.

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Something I noted on filling with High Octane fuel. If you fill at a station that has one hose for all grades of fuel you are probably getting about 1 gallon of regular and the rest premium. The single hose unit has to pump out the fuel in the filtration unit and the hose before the premium begins to flow. So try to fill as empty of a tank as you can, otherwise you'll not be getting the benefit of the high octane in your tank. blush.gif

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That's the stuff.

 

But just as important is the "Italian tune-up" part of it.

Ride like you stole it for few hundred miles. Really.

 

Well, no need to bang it against the rev limiter but do keep the revs (and speed) way up for extended periods.

Any plans for a trip to Nevada? This would be a good time grin.gif

 

--

Mikko

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