ESA vs NON-ESA--it really works!

[bobbybob]

I have 2 R1200RT's--2007's--one has ESA (silver), one doesn't (blue). Gave the wife the ESA model because she liked silver and I liked blue. Had not ridden hers much until the other day and took it out to the twisties and played with the ESA settings. Suddenly a little light came on--in my HEAD . When I set the ride to "SPORT" I noticed I was riding about 15-20 MPH faster in the twisties (and straightaways) than when set on "COMFORT". ESA actually WORKS--it was on this bike when I bought it, was not looking for it, actually didn't even WANT it because a number of folks had said it was just another gizmo to break. I also noticed the FRONT shock is part of this ESA system, as opposed to the non-ESA model in which only the rear is adjustable. So...can someone tell me exactly what parameters are adjusted with ESA on FRONT & REAR? I.e. rebound, compression, or both? I am just amazed at how differently the bike road at 100mph--felt stable and planted and actually felt like 80 mph does when its set to "COMFORT". How can I make my blue RT ride this way? (I don't mean I'm gonna start cruising at 100 ) Since the front shock isn't adjustable, maybe its not possible to get there? Can ESA be adapted to a non-ESA bike? What are the options?

[99Roadster]

Rebound = Comfort, Normal, Sport

Dampening = One-up, One-up w/luggage, Two-up.

 

I'm sure you should be able to setup a non-ESA bike properly. Have you tried setting the dampening adjusted to your weight? It really makes quite a difference.

 

Adding ESA would not be practical and you could do better with aftermarket shocks as most others prefer.

[motoguy128]

I thought I read that the ESA only affects the rear and only adjusts the rebound dampeneing when in motion. when stopped you can adjust the spring preload dampening depending on load. I believe the dampening is also increase corresponing ot load as well.

 

The magazine reviews considered it a "must have" that's well worth the price. I test rode on without it and it rode well. I ended up buying one with it and couldn't be happier. Gadgets are part of the BMW experience and it adds a new element to the ride. I change it regularly during the ride. On the highway I use comfort. On a smooth twisty road, I use sport and around town, on a bumpy twisty road I or if it's a constant mix of road types I use normal.

 

I'll probably use it more than heated seats. My butt's usually too warm.

[smiller]

What you have discovered is a properly set up suspension, or at least something in that direction. There are many paths to this objective besides ESA.

[bobbybob]

<"I thought I read that the ESA only affects the rear and only adjusts the rebound dampeneing when in motion.">

=======================================

 

Well thats what I thought too until I looked at the front shocks on both bikes. The ESA bike's front shock has wires going to the bottom of it but the Non-ESA's has no wiring so I assume the front has some adjustability. Anyone else care to weigh in?

[motoguy128]

I just took a look at my bike. The rebound screw is definitely electronically adjusted on the front the same as the rear. I didn't see anything for compression on either shock. My R1150R only had rebound dampening. I think BMW tries to keep it simple that way.

 

I suspect that an high end aftermarket shock could give a better ride, but won't have the range of adjustment. It's a pretty cool set-up for the price.

[bobbybob]

Has anyone ever heard of retro-fitting ESA to a non-ESA bike?

[Mudman]

The front shock adjusts for rebound dampening.

 

The rear shock is adjusted for rebound and compression dampening.Also the rear is adjusted for preload.

 

The mapping of the rebound and compression dampening is varied by your selection and riding speed.

 

A ZFE High module is used with the ESA option. This module is not in your non ESA Bike. This, the shock units, and a different wiring harness would make a switch over way too expensive.

 

WP offers an after market ESA type kit for the GS. They are the OE suppliers for BMW. They might have something that will work on the RT.

[bobbybob]

The front shock adjusts for rebound dampening.

 

The rear shock is adjusted for rebound and compression dampening.Also the rear is adjusted for preload.

 

The mapping of the rebound and compression dampening is varied by your selection and riding speed.

 

A ZFE High module is used with the ESA option. This module is not in your non ESA Bike. This, the shock units, and a different wiring harness would make a switch over way too expensive.

 

WP offers an after market ESA type kit for the GS. They are the OE suppliers for BMW. They might have something that will work on the RT.

 

Thanks mud--sounds like it'd be a lot easier just to trade it in on an ESA model, but I'll check with WP too. Thanks!

[Don_Eilenberger]

Thanks mud--sounds like it'd be a lot easier just to trade it in on an ESA model, but I'll check with WP too. Thanks!

You might also look at Ohlins - I seem to recall them also offering remote adjustability on their shocks.

[John Bentall]

The front shock adjusts for rebound dampening.

 

The rear shock is adjusted for rebound and compression dampening.Also the rear is adjusted for preload.

 

The mapping of the rebound and compression dampening is varied by your selection and riding speed.

 

A ZFE High module is used with the ESA option. This module is not in your non ESA Bike. This, the shock units, and a different wiring harness would make a switch over way too expensive.

 

WP offers an after market ESA type kit for the GS. They are the OE suppliers for BMW. They might have something that will work on the RT.

 

Talked to a WP representative at the BMW Biker Days meeting in Garmisch two weeks ago. WP will not bring out a kit for retrofitting to the R1200RT under an agreement with BMW. R1200GS ...Yes, R1150RT....Yes, R1200RT...No

[motoguy128]

I wasn't sure if it also controlled compression on hte rear. Thanks for the info. It does even more than I thought... now I definitely think it's worth the money. I also didn't realize that is changed the settings for different riding speeds. Now it just needs to be tied to my GPS so I could tell it to go ultra soft for the crappy broken roads in my town going to and from my house. I have mirror cables on order... I could lose one any time where I live.

 

I agree that a properly set-up suspension can replicate the ESA. But I like being able to take the lazy apprach and have a computer do it for me. Plus I can change the spsuension while moving, and without tools when riding solo, 2-up or with various loads.

 

If I lived where the roads were fairly consistent or only used it for the same type of riding, I probably wouldn't need it.

 

If I didn't have it, I'd just leave the standard shock on the softer setting. I'm smooth enouhyg in hte ocrners and that I don't mind a bike that wallows a little but I prefer a soft ride when the road is straight.

[Mudman]

Thanks for the update, John

[russell_bynum]

Thanks mud--sounds like it'd be a lot easier just to trade it in on an ESA model, but I'll check with WP too. Thanks!

You might also look at Ohlins - I seem to recall them also offering remote adjustability on their shocks.

 

Do you need remote adjustability?

 

Forget about tuning for "comfort" and "sport"...just think about load. Do you frequently make big changes in the load on the bike like switching between solo and 2-up?

 

ESA gives you an easy, convenient, and quick way to adjust crappy shocks. Crappy shocks need to be constantly adjusted to deal with different riding conditions.

 

Good aftermarket shocks will (when properly setup, of course) give you a better ride AND control the bike better in the twisties without you having to constantly adjust them.

 

I was always adjusting the (crappy) stock shocks on my R1100RT. If I got it soft enough to feel really good on the freeway, it would bottom out and wallow like crazy in the twisties. If I got it firm enough to not bottom out and wallow in the twisties, it was incredibly harsh on the freeway.

 

Good aftermarket shocks WORK BETTER. I switched to Works Performance shocks, spent some time getting them setup right, and NEVER ADJUSTED THEM AGAIN other than adjusting for different loads. The resulting ride was MUCH better in both the twisties AND the on the freeway.

 

Today's ESA just makes it easier to adjust those crappy shocks.

 

You are better off buying good aftermarket shocks (Ohlins, Works Performance, Wilbers, etc) and getting them setup properly.

 

 

Now...if you're frequently changing loads, then having easy, quick adjustability is more important, but honestly, I'd still go with good aftermarket shocks because they just work better. Even if it takes you a few extra minutes to adjust them when you switch from solo to 2-up, they'll work better than the stock (or ESA) shocks ever would.

[motoguy128]

I'm going to take the ignorance is bliss response on this one. I've never ridden an bike with Ohlins, Works Performance, Wilbers, etc. So the stock BMW shocks are as good or better than what was on my Japanesse sportbikes.

 

I agree that turning a remote preload adjuster (minimum requirement for any susspension I'll own again) isn't a big deal when I change loads.

 

Overall the $800 ESA option is still cheaper than $2500-3000 aftermarket shocks. When it wears out, I'll replace it with a OEM unit? Probably not. I'll get something aftermarket and see if my dealer can reflash my ECU to remvoe the ESA functionality.

 

The best would be if BMW allowed Ohlins the licensing rights to make a ESA compatable shock.

[russell_bynum]

I'm going to take the ignorance is bliss response on this one.

 

I'm sorry, but ignorance is just ignorance.

 

I know what you mean, though. I didn't have any complaints with my RT's shocks. I figured the constant tinkering was just part of the game. When they finally wore out and I replaced them with good aftermarket units, it was like riding a completely different bike. I still remember that first ride with the Works shocks after I got them dialed in. It was the "Meatfest" ride back in '02 or something like that. The ride up there on the freeway, the bike was absolute silk over the rough LA freeways. Then I got to the twisties and no matter how hard I threw the the thing into the corners, it would compress, settle, and I'd be on the gas. It was like magic.

 

 

So the stock BMW shocks are as good or better than what was on my Japanesse sportbikes.

 

?????

 

What Japanese sportbikes have you been riding?

 

The suspension on my '03 CBR600RR is light years better than what was on my RT.

 

Overall the $800 ESA option is still cheaper than $2500-3000 aftermarket shocks.

 

That estimate sounds a bit high, but I admit that I haven't priced aftermarket shocks for BMW's in a few years. Even if it's $3,000, I'd happily spend the extra $2000 for good shocks...which by the way will be specifically setup for your weight range and riding style (that's a HUGE advantage), are totally rebuildable, and work better than the stock (ESA) shocks.

 

That's just me, though. On all of my bikes, suspension upgrades have been the best money I've spent. ESA isn't a suspension upgrade...it just makes the crappy stuff easier to adjust.

[bobbybob]

I'm going to take the ignorance is bliss response on this one.

 

I'm sorry, but ignorance is just ignorance.

 

I know what you mean, though. I didn't have any complaints with my RT's shocks. I figured the constant tinkering was just part of the game. When they finally wore out and I replaced them with good aftermarket units, it was like riding a completely different bike. I still remember that first ride with the Works shocks after I got them dialed in. It was the "Meatfest" ride back in '02 or something like that. The ride up there on the freeway, the bike was absolute silk over the rough LA freeways. Then I got to the twisties and no matter how hard I threw the the thing into the corners, it would compress, settle, and I'd be on the gas. It was like magic.

 

 

So the stock BMW shocks are as good or better than what was on my Japanesse sportbikes.

 

?????

 

What Japanese sportbikes have you been riding?

 

The suspension on my '03 CBR600RR is light years better than what was on my RT.

 

Overall the $800 ESA option is still cheaper than $2500-3000 aftermarket shocks.

 

That estimate sounds a bit high, but I admit that I haven't priced aftermarket shocks for BMW's in a few years. Even if it's $3,000, I'd happily spend the extra $2000 for good shocks...which by the way will be specifically setup for your weight range and riding style (that's a HUGE advantage), are totally rebuildable, and work better than the stock (ESA) shocks.

 

That's just me, though. On all of my bikes, suspension upgrades have been the best money I've spent. ESA isn't a suspension upgrade...it just makes the crappy stuff easier to adjust.

 

The OEM standard shocks *are* much better than the Japanese sport bike I was riding--and ditched for the RT (an 06 FJR1300). So now, I just need some advice on how to "dial in" my crappy OEM rear shock on the non-ESA bike....at least until it wears out and I replace it with a good aftermarket brand. So, can anyone offer any advice on where to start--I want a good steady ride in the twisties--I'll just put up with the harder ride on the highways. Also, can adjusting the preload substantially improve handling or is it mainly a factor of rebound/compression damping?

[blkvelvt]

I'm going to take the ignorance is bliss response on this one.

 

I'm sorry, but ignorance is just ignorance.

 

I know what you mean, though. I didn't have any complaints with my RT's shocks. I figured the constant tinkering was just part of the game. When they finally wore out and I replaced them with good aftermarket units, it was like riding a completely different bike. I still remember that first ride with the Works shocks after I got them dialed in. It was the "Meatfest" ride back in '02 or something like that. The ride up there on the freeway, the bike was absolute silk over the rough LA freeways. Then I got to the twisties and no matter how hard I threw the the thing into the corners, it would compress, settle, and I'd be on the gas. It was like magic.

 

 

So the stock BMW shocks are as good or better than what was on my Japanesse sportbikes.

 

?????

 

What Japanese sportbikes have you been riding?

 

The suspension on my '03 CBR600RR is light years better than what was on my RT.

 

Overall the $800 ESA option is still cheaper than $2500-3000 aftermarket shocks.

 

That estimate sounds a bit high, but I admit that I haven't priced aftermarket shocks for BMW's in a few years. Even if it's $3,000, I'd happily spend the extra $2000 for good shocks...which by the way will be specifically setup for your weight range and riding style (that's a HUGE advantage), are totally rebuildable, and work better than the stock (ESA) shocks.

 

That's just me, though. On all of my bikes, suspension upgrades have been the best money I've spent. ESA isn't a suspension upgrade...it just makes the crappy stuff easier to adjust.

 

The OEM standard shocks *are* much better than the Japanese sport bike I was riding--and ditched for the RT (an 06 FJR1300). So now, I just need some advice on how to "dial in" my crappy OEM rear shock on the non-ESA bike....at least until it wears out and I replace it with a good aftermarket brand. So, can anyone offer any advice on where to start--I want a good steady ride in the twisties--I'll just put up with the harder ride on the highways. Also, can adjusting the preload substantially improve handling or is it mainly a factor of rebound/compression damping?

 

I agree with you as well. I really love the handling with ESA. I find it insulting that some people can be the "Overlord" of all RT knowledge and say I have crappy taste about crappy shocks on a crappy handling bike and I don't know squwat. I can reference write ups from knowledgeable people who loved the ESA. I would agree with them due to their expertise and not their opinions. They called the ESA RT world class. Yes, maybe there is room for improvement but to spend $2,000 to remove an ESA system sounds immature and opinionated. I bet someone comes out with a rebuild cure. I went to the Big Bear Ralley fully loaded with gear and clicked up LOADED/LUGGAGE/COMFORT and loved the ride. Unloaded the bike and set up camp. By the next day I was flying through the twisties on a 180 mile long Poker Run (thank you KeithB) and loving the RT handling on SOLO/SPORT clicked up. Later rode on SOLO/COMFORT because I was worked and the stiffer setting was not necessary. Next day broke down camp and rode home LOADED WITH LUGGAGE/SPORT setting down the mountain and LOADED/LUGGAGE/NORMAL on the last 75 miles. Great trip and a great ride. Didn't feel too crappy to me.

[russell_bynum]

The OEM standard shocks *are* much better than the Japanese sport bike I was riding--and ditched for the RT (an 06 FJR1300).

 

FJR is not a sport bike.

 

So, can anyone offer any advice on where to start--I want a good steady ride in the twisties--I'll just put up with the harder ride on the highways.

 

 

Check out the suspension tuning articles at Catalyst Reaction's Web site

 

First you want to set the sag. Then work on tuning the shock and front end. Note: Dave's articles are aimed at bikes with conventional front suspension, so things are a little different with the BMW's. The same basic ideas will still apply, and you should be able to transfer the information to your bike.

 

Whatever you do, keep a log. Anytime you make a change, you want to make a note of what you changed, how much you changed it, what the bike felt like before you changed it, and then afterwards, go back and make a note about how it felt afterwards.

 

Before you start, you want to get a baseline. Turn each one of the damping adjusters all the way in, counting the number of turns (and fractions of a turn) that it took to get it from where it is to all the way in. Write that down, then open them back up that same number of turns. For the spring preload, I like to measure from full-soft. So unscrew the preload adjuster counting the number of turns (or clicks...I seem to recall the BMW adjuster clicks when you turn it) until it is all the way loose. Write that down, then set it back where it was.

 

That way, no matter how bad you screw it up, you can always just go back to your baseline.

 

There are also some good suspension setup videos at www.onthethrottle.tv. Click on Suspension and go from there.

 

Also, can adjusting the preload substantially improve handling or is it mainly a factor of rebound/compression damping?

 

All of the adjustments have the potential to improve (or not) handling, and they are all inter-related. If you increase preload, for example, you will likely have to increase rebound damping.

 

What I found with my RT and Lisa's R1100RS was that I had to use excessive spring preload to make up for poor compression damping that would cause the bike to bottom out when I'd throw it into turns. Then I had to increase rebound damping to keep the bike from pogoing. When I got out to the freeway, that was way too stiff and I'd have to pull over and pull all that extra preload and rebound damping out.

[bobbybob]

So, can anyone offer any advice on where to start--I want a good steady ride in the twisties--I'll just put up with the harder ride on the highways.

 

 

Check out the suspension tuning articles at Catalyst Reaction's Web site

 

First you want to set the sag. Then work on tuning the shock and front end. Note: Dave's articles are aimed at bikes with conventional front suspension, so things are a little different with the BMW's. The same basic ideas will still apply, and you should be able to transfer the information to your bike.

 

Whatever you do, keep a log. Anytime you make a change, you want to make a note of what you changed, how much you changed it, what the bike felt like before you changed it, and then afterwards, go back and make a note about how it felt afterwards.

 

Before you start, you want to get a baseline. Turn each one of the damping adjusters all the way in, counting the number of turns (and fractions of a turn) that it took to get it from where it is to all the way in. Write that down, then open them back up that same number of turns. For the spring preload, I like to measure from full-soft. So unscrew the preload adjuster counting the number of turns (or clicks...I seem to recall the BMW adjuster clicks when you turn it) until it is all the way loose. Write that down, then set it back where it was.

 

That way, no matter how bad you screw it up, you can always just go back to your baseline.

 

There are also some good suspension setup videos at www.onthethrottle.tv. Click on Suspension and go from there.

 

Also, can adjusting the preload substantially improve handling or is it mainly a factor of rebound/compression damping?

 

All of the adjustments have the potential to improve (or not) handling, and they are all inter-related. If you increase preload, for example, you will likely have to increase rebound damping.

 

What I found with my RT and Lisa's R1100RS was that I had to use excessive spring preload to make up for poor compression damping that would cause the bike to bottom out when I'd throw it into turns. Then I had to increase rebound damping to keep the bike from pogoing. When I got out to the freeway, that was way too stiff and I'd have to pull over and pull all that extra preload and rebound damping out.

 

Russell, thats just too damn much work--I wanna ride, not experiment. Think I'll just trade the crappy non-ESA in on a crappy ESA. But thanks anyway.

[russell_bynum]

Didn't feel too crappy to me.

 

Out of curiosity, do you have recent experience with good aftermarket suspension?

 

I thought my RT suspension was good too, until I put aftermarket shocks on.

 

I bet someone comes out with a rebuild cure.

 

Perhaps. Hopefully they'll offer upgrade and customization options while they're in there.

 

thank you KeithB

 

Ask Keith what he thinks about his Wilbers suspension compared to the stock suspension on his R1200RT.

 

I went to the Big Bear Ralley fully loaded with gear and clicked up LOADED/LUGGAGE/COMFORT and loved the ride. Unloaded the bike and set up camp. By the next day I was flying through the twisties on a 180 mile long Poker Run (thank you KeithB) and loving the RT handling on SOLO/SPORT clicked up. Later rode on SOLO/COMFORT because I was worked and the stiffer setting was not necessary. Next day broke down camp and rode home LOADED WITH LUGGAGE/SPORT setting down the mountain and LOADED/LUGGAGE/NORMAL on the last 75 miles.

 

That's all well and good.

 

With my Works shocks, I had the "ARS" rear, which basically uses two springs one on top of the other, and an indexed cup that you can rotate to one of three positions to determine how much the softer spring compresses before it switches to the stiffer spring. Basically, it's a dual-rate spring, but you can lock out the softer rate when you're loaded.

 

Anyway...if I had followed you on that great trip, I would have turned the ARS cup to the middle position (2-up or solo with luggage) for the ride out there. Then I'd unload my junk and rotate the cup 1/3 turn back to the "solo" position. Then I'd do the rid.e When you were switching to solo/comfort, I wouldn't do anything...because I wouldn't need to. Then I'd turn the cup 1/3 turn back to the middle position for the loaded ride home.

 

That's the deal...the good aftermarket shocks work better across a more broad range of conditions. So, I don't NEED to diddle with it constantly to get an acceptable ride.

 

ESA is fine. And if you don't know any better, and you aren't going to keep your bike long enough to wear the stock shocks out, then it's a good use of $800. The stock shocks suck, and you're going to want to adjust them a bunch to suit the road/load/etc. ESA makes that much easier. That's a good thing.

 

But you'd get a better ride AND rebuildable shocks if you go with aftermarket. If neither of those things are important to you, and you're happy with what you've got, then that's great.

 

Yes, maybe there is room for improvement but to spend $2,000 to remove an ESA system sounds immature and opinionated.

 

It's definitely opinionated. Suspension is about feel, which is mostly subjective. i.e. Opinion. I've ridden BMW's with stock shocks and I've ridden BMW's with aftermarket shocks. I know how those feel to me and I know what the improved feel of aftermarket is worth to me.

 

If I were buying a new BMW right now, I wouldn't get ESA. If I were looking for a used BMW and I found "THE ONE", bu it had ESA, I'd buy it. But in either case, I would replace it with good aftermarket shocks shortly.

 

I'm not sure how that's immature. I'm doing a cost/benefit analysis and based on my experiences, I've decided that aftermarket shocks are a worthwhile investment.

[russell_bynum]

Russell, thats just too damn much work--I wanna ride, not experiment. Think I'll just trade the crappy non-ESA in on a crappy ESA. But thanks anyway.

 

Good grief. You're willing to throw away thousands of dollars rather than spend a few freaking hours learning how to make motorcycling more enjoyable and safe? You'll spend more time filling out paperwork on the trade than it would take to just do this.

 

For $50 and about 30 minutes, a local suspension tuner can do it for you.

 

You'll learn more, get more out of the experience, and be able to use that knowledge to make future adjustments that increase your enjoyment of the ride if you do it yourself, but at least get someone who knows what they're doing to set it up for you.

[99Roadster]

Check the July issue of Motorcycle Consumer News , they have a good 'how to' article on suspension setup.

[sardineone]

What a hot topic this ESA business. As far as I know WP is not a shabby brand of suspension components. I've ridden a Moto Guzzi that had a WP rear shock and it worked pretty well. Personally I never use the ESA Sport setting as it's too stiff for anything under sustained Autobahn speeds. As for the comfort setting I have one of the toughest critics on my side, as the Mrs. likes my BMW the best of all the many bikes I have owned over 39 years of riding. All she is interested in is comfort. I am a fan of doing the twisties on the quick side and control at speed makes me happy. I'm happy enough with the ESA on my bike that I wouldn't take $2,000 to take it off. I'm not likely to lean it over much more no matter what better shocks are out there.

See attachment.

[russell_bynum]

As far as I know WP is not a shabby brand of suspension components

 

Correct. They make some really top-notch stuff.

 

They also make some crappy stuff.

 

The shocks on my R1100RT were from Showa. Showa makes (among other things) suspension components for MotoGP teams...the absolute best in the business. The stock shock and forks on my CBR600RR are Showa and are quite good. The Showa suspension on my RT was crap.

 

The moral of that story is that all WP shocks are not created equal, and what BMW has specified is nowhere near the best that WP makes.

[blkvelvt]

Yes, I have had plenty on experience with aftermarket suspension. Yes I have multiple BMW's. Yes, I have my own opinions. Wilbers (Set up right) are fine shocks. Same the Ohlins. WP has been around for ages. If WP wasn't such a good set up, KTM wouldn't control what they do and use them so much. Ever heard of a KTM? One of the finest brands on the planet. The ESA RT is not the best handling bike but the non ESA is just as faulty due to it's size and weight and less than world beater power. It is the farkle king and it is one of 5 motorcycles and 12 vehicles that I currently own. I like the fact that I can change my suspension at the same time I am changing the radio station and dropping the windscreen lower in a 70 mph sweeper on the freeway without looking down or taking my eyes off the roadway. It's a farkletastic ride.......

[russell_bynum]

Yes, I have had plenty on experience with aftermarket suspension. Yes I have multiple BMW's. Yes, I have my own opinions. Wilbers (Set up right) are fine shocks. Same the Ohlins.

 

That's cool. I asked because most of the time when I hear people raving about how great the stock BMW suspension is, I find out their last bike was a K75 or an RD350 or something like that.

 

If WP wasn't such a good set up, KTM wouldn't control what they do and use them so much. Ever heard of a KTM? One of the finest brands on the planet.

 

As I said above...not all WP shocks are created equal. You are not getting the same quality as the guy with the KTM motocrosser.

 

ESA RT is not the best handling bike but the non ESA is just as faulty due to it's size and weight and less than world beater power.

 

ESA is an easy way to adjust a suspension that needs to be constantly adjusted. If you're going with stock suspension, ESA is the way to go.

 

It is the farkle king and it is one of 5 motorcycles and 12 vehicles that I currently own. I like the fact that I can change my suspension at the same time I am changing the radio station and dropping the windscreen lower in a 70 mph sweeper on the freeway without looking down or taking my eyes off the roadway. It's a farkletastic ride.......

 

If it's just a bling thing, then fine.

 

I've never been much into that. I just know that every single bike I've had has been improved dramatically by aftermarket suspension. Even my '03 CBR600RR, which was pretty good to start with is like a totally different bike with a Penske rear and GP Suspension bits up front.

 

But the only bike that saw a bigger improvement with the addition of aftermarket suspension than my RT was Lisa's '90 FZR600 track bike that we upgraded from the stock rear shock that was creaking and groaning to a really nice Fox racing shock, and replaced the stock bits up front with Race Tech springs and emulators with good quality fork oil. The Fizzer went from a dreadful mess to an absolute blast with aftermarket bits. The RT wasn't quite that dramatic, but it was close.

 

Hey...you're happy with your bike and that's the most important thing. As I said...suspension is about feel. If the stock suspension feels good enough to you and you like having buttons to push while you ride down the road, then you've got the right setup for you.

 

In the OP's case, he just needs to setup his suspension to get the feel he's looking for.

[John in VA]

Overall the $800 ESA option is still cheaper than $2500-3000 aftermarket shocks.

 

Ohlins cost about $1250, if you install them yourself (a 2-hour job).

 

I took the ESA shocks off my used 1500mi '06 and installed Ohlins (saving them if I sell the bike later), because I missed the Ohlins that were on my old R1100RT.

 

To me, there's simply no comparison of the superior controlled ride of the Ohlins to ESA at any setting, one-up, two-up, whatever.

[bobbybob]

Blkvelvt, agreed +++ on the "Farkle-Factor". IMHO, the ESA ability to make the changes on the fly far outweigh the incremental performance gains of a non-ESA system, no matter who makes it. It just works!

 

Russell, you seem to be saying that the ESA shocks are essentially the same old crappy non-ESA shocks with some electronic adjusters slapped on them. Have you, or anyone you know, ever dissected an ESA shock and compared the internals, valving, springs, etc. with a "high-end" aftermarket shock? I would be very interested to know *for sure* if BMW did just what you stated, or if they actually put a little more quality into the ESA shocks. One thing for sure, the front shock IS adjustable on the ESA but not on the standard version, so that would indicate something different in the front end. Just curious. Anyone know this?

[blkvelvt]

It wasn't an RD350. It was a Kawasaki MachIII triple....

When my ESA goes south, I don't know what I'm going to run. Time (aftermarket vs OEM) will tell...

[russell_bynum]

Russell, you seem to be saying that the ESA shocks are essentially the same old crappy non-ESA shocks with some electronic adjusters slapped on them. Have you, or anyone you know, ever dissected an ESA shock and compared the internals, valving, springs, etc. with a "high-end" aftermarket shock? I would be very interested to know *for sure* if BMW did just what you stated, or if they actually put a little more quality into the ESA shocks. One thing for sure, the front shock IS adjustable on the ESA but not on the standard version, so that would indicate something different in the front end. Just curious. Anyone know this?

 

Excellent question.

 

No, I don't know for sure and I haven't dissected one. (I wouldn't know how to dissect one or what I'm looking for anyway.)

 

I'm basing that statement on the feedback I've heard from riders with both setups.

 

As for the front being adjustable...Lisa's R1100RS has the same rear shock as my RT did. The front, in addition to being a slightly different length, has adjustable rebound damping, where the RT's front does not. They're the same basic quality, but you do get a bit more adjustability out of the RS's front end. It does make a difference. Not enough that I'd be willing to forgo good aftermarke bits, but it is better than my RT's front shock was.

[russell_bynum]

It wasn't an RD350. It was a Kawasaki MachIII triple....

 

[bobbybob]

John, which Ohlins do you have on your RT? Where did you get them? Did you install yourself?

[bobbybob]

Russell, you seem to be saying that the ESA shocks are essentially the same old crappy non-ESA shocks with some electronic adjusters slapped on them. Have you, or anyone you know, ever dissected an ESA shock and compared the internals, valving, springs, etc. with a "high-end" aftermarket shock? I would be very interested to know *for sure* if BMW did just what you stated, or if they actually put a little more quality into the ESA shocks. One thing for sure, the front shock IS adjustable on the ESA but not on the standard version, so that would indicate something different in the front end. Just curious. Anyone know this?

 

Excellent question.

 

No, I don't know for sure and I haven't dissected one. (I wouldn't know how to dissect one or what I'm looking for anyway.)

 

I'm basing that statement on the feedback I've heard from riders with both setups.

 

As for the front being adjustable...Lisa's R1100RS has the same rear shock as my RT did. The front, in addition to being a slightly different length, has adjustable rebound damping, where the RT's front does not. They're the same basic quality, but you do get a bit more adjustability out of the RS's front end. It does make a difference. Not enough that I'd be willing to forgo good aftermarke bits, but it is better than my RT's front shock was.

 

Russell, are you basically saying that with a Ohlins or WP or whatever (insert the best brand here), that once they are set up properly I would be as happy with the ride whether I was cruising the slab or taking the twisties--without having to make any further adjustments? If thats the case, I assume a dual-rate or dual-spring shock would be minimun equipment to achieve this?

[blkvelvt]

We need this to be for the RT. Heck, I'll trade for this bike.

http://www.wpsuspension.com/news/ktm.php

[tgrrdr]

Overall the $800 ESA option is still cheaper than $2500-3000 aftermarket shocks.

 

Ohlins cost about $1250, if you install them yourself (a 2-hour job).

 

$1250 for both shocks? The cheapest I've seen is $800 for the rear and $700 for the front.

[Firefight911]

$1250 for both shocks? The cheapest I've seen is $800 for the rear and $700 for the front.

 

I purchased the new 2-stage rear AND the front Ohlins for my '07 R1200GSA 2 weeks ago for $1400.

 

My Wilber's, F&R, 2 years ago for my '05 R1200ST were $1300 and change. This included HI and LO speed compression damping and hydraulic remote preload adjuster.

 

$1250 for an RT or other is reasonable to expect.

[russell_bynum]

Russell, are you basically saying that with a Ohlins or WP or whatever (insert the best brand here), that once they are set up properly I would be as happy with the ride whether I was cruising the slab or taking the twisties--without having to make any further adjustments? If thats the case, I assume a dual-rate or dual-spring shock would be minimun equipment to achieve this?

 

Yes, but no dual-rate spring is needed. You only need to change the spring rate if you change the load on the bike. Since most people don't have the resources to change springs every time they change loads, you typically go with a spring that's a compromise between your various loads and attempt to make up the difference with preload.

 

The damping circuits are where the magic happens. The high and low-speed compression damping is key.

 

To use some old tech as an example...many older bikes have "damping rod" forks. Each fork tube has a rod with holes in it. Those holes provide resistance for the oil in the forks to prevent it from flowing through. That's where the daming comes from.

 

The problem is those holes make for some pretty unsophisticated compression damping. Imagine two types of compression events...high speed and low speed. High speed would be if you hit a sharp bump in the road. Low speed would be the gradual load-up that you get when you roll the bike into a turn and the suspension compresses.

 

The holes don't let the oil move very quickly, which means that the forks have way too much high-speed compression damping. Bumps are really harsh.

 

But, those holes don't do anything progressive to increase the amount of resistance as the forks continue to compress. The result is that a constant compression force (like braking) will easily compress the forks.

 

The result is a fork that collapses under braking, but is very harsh over bumps.

 

If you switch to cartridge-style forks, the valving inside them is much more sophisticated and it allows the forks to easily absorb those high-speed events, but progressively resist low-speed compression events.

 

I don't have the know-how to say exactly what/how things work inside those cartridge forks...I just know that they work.

 

The difference between cheap shocks and good shocks is the good shocks do an even better job of dealing with those compression events. It's like the difference between a Honda Accord and a BMW 5-series. Both are about the same size, both have ABS and traction control, both have about the same horsepower. But the BMW performs MUCH better.

 

(For that matter, take the Accord and replace the shocks with really good aftermarket ones and you'll see a big difference.)

 

You'd need to talk to a suspension expert to get the nitty-gritty details of what makes a good shock and a bad one. I just know how they feel.

[russell_bynum]

The mapping of the rebound and compression dampening is varied by your selection and riding speed.

 

Help me understand that last part. I don't have any problem figuring out how the system would know vehicle speed, I'm just trying to understand what it would adjust in relation to speed.

[Mudman]

I don't know all the details, but the stepper motors that control the dampening rates operate in a continuum of positions that offer many incremental changes. This would be much like a shock having 34 clicks of adjustment. The mean setting would be determined by the preload setting and your selection of comfort, normal, or sport( nine different possibilities). All of this is controlled by the ZFE that also receives and translates rear wheel speed for things such as the instrument cluster, trip computer, turn signals, cruise control, and ESA. The ESA system is said to trim the mean setting in accordance to speed.

 

I don't have information on at what speeds it trims and how much, but these values ideally would be related to preload and dampening selections made by the rider.

 

My 987 Boxster has a similar system they call PASM. On both of these vehicles I can feel suspension changes with speed variations.

 

I don't know the quality of the WP units that are part of the ESA, but I have to say they perform very well compared to the 96 RT I had with Fox Shocks. Those were very nice once I figured out the settings that were right for my riding style and weight.

[Mr Pou]

The damping circuits are where the magic happens. The high and low-speed compression damping is key.

 

This is where I had my biggest beef with the stock shock on my '03 1150RT, the shock had a "compression" adjustment, but it didn't say in the book if it was a high or low speed adjustment. Judging by the ride, the adjustment affected both.

 

If I increased compression enough to get good low speed control at the rear, it really kicked my ass bad on high speed bumps. Painfully bad. It was bad enough that I backed off the compression to get a good ride, and put up with the rear end bobbing up and down like a '72 Olds VistaCruiser with bad shocks.

 

Now with the Wilbers, I have seperate high and low speed compression adjustment, and I can have both good low speed control AND a good ride over sharp bumps.

 

Good suspension is the second best investment you can make in improving your fun. (Riding school is #1)

[John in VA]

John, which Ohlins do you have on your RT? Where did you get them? Did you install yourself?

 

bobbybob,

 

Got them at www.hardracing.com, $1238.40 + 32.60 shipping, and I installed them myself following Limecreek's excellent thread in the Hexhead forum.

 

Having ridden ESA under many conditions and loads, I (and my pillions) can vouch that the Ohlins improvement in suspension performance is far more than "incremental".

[bobbybob]

John, which Ohlins do you have on your RT? Where did you get them? Did you install yourself?

 

bobbybob,

 

Got them at www.hardracing.com, $1238.40 + 32.60 shipping, and I installed them myself following Limecreek's excellent thread in the Hexhead forum.

 

Having ridden ESA under many conditions and loads, I (and my pillions) can vouch that the Ohlins improvement in suspension performance is far more than "incremental".

 

Thanks John--I'll look into them. Would you have a link to Limecreek's thread?

[bobbybob]

I don't know all the details, but the stepper motors that control the dampening rates operate in a continuum of positions that offer many incremental changes. This would be much like a shock having 34 clicks of adjustment. The mean setting would be determined by the preload setting and your selection of comfort, normal, or sport( nine different possibilities). All of this is controlled by the ZFE that also receives and translates rear wheel speed for things such as the instrument cluster, trip computer, turn signals, cruise control, and ESA. The ESA system is said to trim the mean setting in accordance to speed.

 

I don't have information on at what speeds it trims and how much, but these values ideally would be related to preload and dampening selections made by the rider.

 

My 987 Boxster has a similar system they call PASM. On both of these vehicles I can feel suspension changes with speed variations.

 

I don't know the quality of the WP units that are part of the ESA, but I have to say they perform very well compared to the 96 RT I had with Fox Shocks. Those were very nice once I figured out the settings that were right for my riding style and weight.

 

Mud, this is very interesting--I had no idea the ESA system was THAT sophisticated. Where did you glean all these facts? Has BMW EVER published anything that *really* explains the ESA system in detail? I know that would be so *not" like them but thought I'd ask.

[russell_bynum]

This is where I had my biggest beef with the stock shock on my '03 1150RT, the shock had a "compression" adjustment, but it didn't say in the book if it was a high or low speed adjustment. Judging by the ride, the adjustment affected both.

 

Just to nitpick a little...the R11XXRT's had adjustable spring preload and rebound damping on the rear, and no adjustments up front.

 

There was no compression damping adjustment (unless you had an aftermarket shock).

 

But...on shocks that only have one compression damping adjustment, you're adjusting both high and low speed together.

 

For that matter...on shocks with both high and low speed compression damping adjustments, if you change one of the adjustments, it will affect the other adjustment. When I added two clicks of low-speed compression damping to the rear Penske shock on my Tuono, I found the high speed (which had been perfect) to be way too stiff. I took out a click of high speed and it was better.

 

So everything's tied together to a degree.

[blkvelvt]

Mud, this is very interesting--I had no idea the ESA system was THAT sophisticated. Where did you glean all these facts? Has BMW EVER published anything that *really* explains the ESA system in detail? I know that would be so *not" like them but thought I'd ask.

 

bobbybob, I would like to see someone take it one step further and test an ESA RT against aftermarket set ups. Track time with real riders. Also keep in mind, most of us here don't ride to the full capacity of what most motorcycles are capable of. If ESA works 100% of the time for a riders' personal needs, why change it if it isn't broken? I would not trade your bike for an ESA bike due to financial losses on the trade. You would lose too much money. On the other hand, I wouldn't get rid of an ESA RT if it had it, just to buy an aftermarket shock that would wear out from benchracing. Get a good shock and ride brother.

 

 

Amen

[Bullett]

One thing for sure, the front shock IS adjustable on the ESA but not on the standard version, so that would indicate something different in the front end. Just curious. Anyone know this?

 

Yep. Says so in the owner's manual.

[Bullett]

I have stiffened my preload a little on the rear on my RT (no ESA), but haven't adjusted the rebound. Coming home from the TOR when I briefly hit 110 mph while passing a line of cars, it seemed to me the front began to "float" a little. I slowed down and it "got better."

 

Is this a shock adjustment thing? I did have loaded bags and small topcase.

[russell_bynum]

I have stiffened my preload a little on the rear on my RT (no ESA), but haven't adjusted the rebound. Coming home from the TOR when I briefly hit 110 mph while passing a line of cars, it seemed to me the front began to "float" a little. I slowed down and it "got better."

 

Is this a shock adjustment thing? I did have loaded bags and small topcase.

 

With the stock front, there is no adjustment to be made.

 

But...you could have a situation where the rear is acting up and you feel it in the front. In general, any time you add preload you should expect to need to add rebound damping as well. That's not 100%, but I've found that most of the time when I add preload, I'm immediately dealing with a bike that wallows and/or pogos over bumps...which you fix by adding rebound damping.

 

Try adding a click or two of rebound damping and see what that does. (If the adjuster screw doesn't have clicks, try about a quarter to a half turn or so and see how that feels.

[Bullett]

Thanks Russell, I'll give it a try.