Service Appointment

[1100RTGuy]

I called to get a 36k service and was told that it would be 4 weeks. All well at lease I got in. I guess I'll just put more miles on the motorcycle till service time.

[Jim VonBaden]

I called to get a 36k service and was told that it would be 4 weeks. All well at lease I got in. I guess I'll just put more miles on the motorcycle till service time.

 

Two words: Service DVD!

 

Jim

[Godfather]

New Guy,

Do your own service...If you can read, and know what end of a screw driver to hold...you can do it!

I owned my 99' RT (first BMW) for all of 3 weeks before I tackled the 36-K service...with much success.This forum will help with anything you need to know..."trust me"

[Red]

I don't find the do-it-yourself-it's-easy advise helpful to those of us who do know which end of a screw driver to use but when we use them, we always strip out the head.

 

There are some folk, I am one, who did not grow up wrenching, we don't have a wrenching support group or tech sessions within a day's ride each way, and the available books are not written for the novice. You get in the middle of one of those "simple" jobs and something unexpected ALWAYS shows up. Or you inspect the suspect part and have no idea what a bad part looks like compared to a normally worn part. There is a lot of experience factor involved in wrencing. Experience and support that frankly this board, as absolutely fantastic as it is, cannot provide to the inexperienced or insecure RT owner/wrencher. So please, enough with the just do it yourself, it's easy and cheap advise. For some it is not only not easy, when we screw things up it is also not cheap.

 

Respectfully,

[Tipover_Bob]

I don't find the do-it-yourself-it's-easy advise helpful to those of us who do know which end of a screw driver to use but when we use them, we always strip out the head.

 

There are some folk, I am one, who did not grow up wrenching, we don't have a wrenching support group or tech sessions within a day's ride each way, and the available books are not written for the novice. You get in the middle of one of those "simple" jobs and something unexpected ALWAYS shows up. Or you inspect the suspect part and have no idea what a bad part looks like compared to a normally worn part. There is a lot of experience factor involved in wrencing. Experience and support that frankly this board, as absolutely fantastic as it is, cannot provide to the inexperienced or insecure RT owner/wrencher. So please, enough with the just do it yourself, it's easy and cheap advise. For some it is not only not easy, when we screw things up it is also not cheap.

 

Respectfully,

 

Red:

That is so wrong. Someone says they will help you for free and you say you want your money back?

 

Wrenching is like other things, you have to try. If you try you learn. If you don't try, you don't learn. Nothing is life is without risk.

 

Tipover Bob

[Godfather]

Red, I am mot an experienced wrench, nor did I grow up around wrenching or mechanics. I simply had the desire to learn to do it myself, and I did, and it was EASY! Patients is the key. Read ask questions and do not be afraid to learn.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Red, it actually is easy. You just have to take baby steps and learn a little each time. Should a novice jump in and do a clutch replacement and transmission rebuild? Of course not. That would be stupid.

 

But, you can certainly start by changing your own oil. Takes about 3 tools, needs about 1/2 hour and, with a couple of pictures, even a multi-thumbed, mechanical moron should be able to manage it. On an even simpler level, change a light bulb. There, that wasn't so hard, was it?

 

I've been taking baby steps for awhile now, about 50 years. There were a lot of steps and a number of cases where I went backwards or fell on my ass, just like a baby. It's a learning experience and you can't learn if you never try.

[keithb]

Jeff

I would order Jim's DVD. At $27 for all the services he has on it is a no brainer. Things like changing oil/tranny/Final Drive fluid is a piece of cake and will keep at least $100+ dollars in your pocket vs. taking it to the dealer AND four weeks of waiting for service. You can do all three fluids in 2 hours and be done with it. Now you have the valve adjust and Throttle body sync. I would look for an independent mechanic in your area for the valve adj. and TB sync. Should cost you no more than $100 for those two services. If you can unscrew a nut you can change the fluids. See if there is anyone in your area that could help you.

[Kwazimoto]

You could also host a tech day-I know I myself don`t have a place to host one,but have shared my knowledge at a couple. Ohio seems to have a lot of Beemers-I`m sure you would have someone willing to help.It seems to me everyone coming to a tech day has a specialty-from valve adjust, TB synch, , tire mount & balance, finding a place to have it,cooking up a great lunch.I know I feel much more confident on the road having been to them. The first one I went to ,Ted from Chambersburg,PA hosted-he went to the trouble of finding space at an old army base(I`m sure no easy task).I came out of it with new 1-ideas 2-friends 3- appreciation of what the folks on this board are willing to do to help each other!

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Red, it actually is easy. You just have to take baby steps and learn a little each time. Should a novice jump in and do a clutch replacement and transmission rebuild? Of course not. That would be stupid.

 

But, you can certainly start by changing your own oil. Takes about 3 tools, needs about 1/2 hour and, with a couple of pictures, even a multi-thumbed, mechanical moron should be able to manage it. On an even simpler level, change a light bulb. There, that wasn't so hard, was it?

 

I've been taking baby steps for awhile now, about 50 years. There were a lot of steps and a number of cases where I went backwards or fell on my ass, just like a baby. It's a learning experience and you can't learn if you never try.

 

One of my favorite quotes:

 

• “…There’s a school of mechanical thought which says I shouldn’t be getting into a complex assembly I don’t know anything about. I should have training or leave the job to a specialist. That’s a self-serving school of mechanical eliteness I’d like to see wiped out…You’re at a disadvantage the first time around and it may cost you a little more because of parts you accidentally damage, and it will almost undoubtedly take a lot more time, but the next time around you’re way ahead of the specialist. You, with gumption, have learned the assembly the hard way and you’ve a whole set of good feelings about it that he’s unlikely to have.”
   
  -Robert M. Pirsig, “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance”

Learn slowly, but make an effort to learn. Get the service manual, follow the instructions. As Ed sez, start with the simple stuff, like an oil change. For more involved stuff like valve clearance checks or throttle sync jobs, get some help from people who have been there; ask questions here, watch the Ride Planning forum for a Tech Daze near you (I think there's gonna be one in Michigan soon...). Even if your own bike doesn't need service when a Tech Daze comes around, show up anyway and watch other people work on the same model bike so you can get to know your own.

 

Apart from the satisfaction of doing your own work, the following benefits make it worth pursuing, even if you're inclined to break something once in a while:

 

• Convenience. You don't have to take time off of work, or hustle out right after work, to get your bike to the dealership before they close. You don't have to arrange for transportation back home after dropping off the bike, or back to the dealership to pick up your bike.
  
• Savings. I've saved thousands of dollars by doing my own service.
  
• Scheduling. Dealer can't fit you in for four weeks, but you've got a trip coming up in two? DIY, get it done when you need it done.
  
• Confidence. I've heard enough service horror stories to make me cringe at the thought of trusting someone else to do all the work right. If a wheel falls off of my car on the way out of the dealership, I'll just get angry; if a wheel falls off of my bike, it could kill me. I do it myself, I can check my own work and have confidence that everything has been done according to spec. If you're worried about forgetting stuff, work off of a paper checklist so you can actually check off items as they get done.

 

As Pirsig notes, it'll take you a bit longer the first time through, but a 6K service happens every 6K miles, and it's basically the same work every time.

[Stan Walker]

the following benefits make it worth pursuing

 

Your forgot......

 

Should you have a problem 1000's of miles away from home on a day the all the dealers are closed, you at least have a shot at fixing it yourself.

 

Stan

[Red]

To all you motivators an encouragers, thank you. It all sounds great and works up to the point where I stand over the bike, tool box at the ready thinking, if I screw this up I'm gonna have to load that beast in the truck by myself without a wheel (pick one), brakes, or other important functional part and haul this puppy 185 miles to the dealer to clean up my mess. Positive thinking there, eh? Let's just say it's not a phobia, it's conditioned response.

 

I'm a learn by example sort, not a learn by book or trial and error kind of guy. Hands-on learning from another competent individual is what works. Positive results build confidense. I need to get it right the first time. I'm pretty sure there are studies that show that positive leaning experiences lead to advancement and negative learning experinces lead to aversion. For me failure is not a leaning experience, it's failure. Perhaps that's a character flaw, but it's me. Tech days are just not a viable learning tool considering I am 5.5 hours away (one way) from the nearest town that I am aware of that has tech days.

Oh yea it sucks to have the realizaton that if the beastie quits me somewhere in North Dakota, the only option is dependence on the benevolence of others and a tow to a dealer 500+ miles off. That awareness makes you very humble.

I envy you who have the attitude and the aptitude to tackle (for you) the opportunities/challenges of vehicle maintenance and repair. Until I can hook up with a coach to elevate my experience/confidence, I'm think I'm gonna have to settle for oil/filter/bulb replacement.

 

I do learn enormous amounts of good information about diagnosis and repair from you all. This forum helps emensly with my ability to practice preventive maintenance, diagnosis and dialog with service managers and mechanics, and every day operational good practices.

 

I have the Haynes and Clymer manuals for my RT. I thought they'd enpower me as some of you have said they can. And at one point I did contemplate removing the wheels at home and taking them in for tire replacement rather than taking the entire bike in to have it done. Then, on this forum, I discovered that one of the manuals (can't remember which) had the sequence for front wheel removal wrong which leads to malfunction. Trust factor in books now zero. Sorry, books are absoulutely worthless without the over the shoulder tutelage of the experienced mentor.

 

Keep sending those positive Zen vibes.

[USAF1]

No one should ever be afraid of making a mistake......

 

Pat

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

To all you motivators an encouragers, thank you. It all sounds great and works up to the point where I stand over the bike, tool box at the ready thinking, if I screw this up I'm gonna have to load that beast in the truck by myself without a wheel (pick one), brakes, or other important functional part and haul this puppy 185 miles to the dealer to clean up my mess. Positive thinking there, eh? Let's just say it's not a phobia, it's conditioned response.

 

It happens to the best of us. My dad is an accomplished shadetree mechanic, to the point of having replaced the engine in an Olds Cutlass Supreme by himself in our garage. In that same car, he once sought to replace the broken turn signal stalk on the steering column. He delved farther and farther into the mechanism until he got things so screwed up he couldn't even get the key/lock mechanism back in to start the car; had to tow it to the dealer and sheepishly hand over a box of parts.

 

I'm pretty sure there are studies that show that positive leaning experiences lead to advancement and negative learning experinces lead to aversion. For me failure is not a leaning experience, it's failure.

 

Hm. I suppose that might vary from person to person. Failure is "negative feedback," i.e. information that convinces you to change your behavior so as to avoid that particular failure in the future. Aversion is one solution, I suppose, but it's expensive.

 

Tech days are just not a viable learning tool considering I am 5.5 hours away (one way) from the nearest town that I am aware of that has tech days.

 

 

You own a '96 RT? This sounds like a great long weekend! Take off on a Friday afternoon, enjoy a Saturday learning about the bike, and come back on Sunday!

 

Until I can hook up with a coach to elevate my experience/confidence, I'm think I'm gonna have to settle for oil/filter/bulb replacement.

 

Tech Daze, bro! Enjoy the ride, meet people, learn the bike! You don't even have to work on your bike if you don't want to; just watch other folks and ask questions.

[Bob Palin]

Red, I understand where you are coming from, I'd never worked on any kind of machine before I bought my RT in 2002 (at age 45). I went to a tech daze just to watch but was persuaded to work on my bike and haven't looked back since. I'll never attempt a major repair like a final drive or transmission but I easily get regular servicing and tyre changes done. I still don't enjoy it particularly but it's better than paying someone else 200 miles away to do it on their schedule rather than mine and I know it gets done right (mostly).

[Lion_lady]

I recommend that you host a tech day or find one to attend (your local BMW club, perhaps?). Go and WATCH and HELP folks work on their bikes. I'm with you... having the manual and the tools is all well and good, but without a basic understanding of what you're doing, the manual might as well be written in GREEK.

 

I dealt with the same sort of 'oh, just do it yourself, its so EEEEEAaaasy' when I first mentioned the wait for a service appointment to fellow BMW riders. Then, I attended a tech day, and watched folks (actually about a dozen folks) take appart, service, and reassemble their motorcycles right in a fellow club member's driveway.

 

Hmmm, maybe I can do this.

 

Next time, I helped someone do a valve adjustment. Then, I did my own oil change at home in my garage... At the next club Tech Day, I did my own 12K service. Just did my 24K service a couple weeks ago.

 

I'd been "holding out" with the ABS brake service. Too complex a system for me to feel comfortable working on. But I think I'm gonna give THAT a try at our next Tech Day.

 

P

[Red]

It is just not possible to slink off now and hide behind my 1970 Craftsman tool box after encouragement like this. I'll be on the look out for tech days. I might even go out and buy a bigger mallot! I used to race flat track with a guy who was a excellent mechanic. He had a fun sense of humor. One of my favorite sayings of his was if it doesn't fit, force it. If that doesn't work, get a bigger hammer. There was something theraputic about beating the living sheet out of a tyre over a shop trash can to break the bead.

See you a a tech days near me.

[roydog007]

Well I'm doing my 24k brake & clutch bleed on Sat for the first time. With some supervision of course.

It's 700.00 dollars in labor I just can't afford to sub-out at the moment.

So it's either do it myself or wait till I can afford it to start riding again

[Red]

Roy,

 

$700.00? That is getting serviced all right, in the animal husbandry sense of the word. I get my scooter serviced every 12,000 and they R & R the brake fluid at that interval. I think it ususlly itemizes out at less than $50.00 labor and $10.00 fluid. Heck the whole 12,000 service usually runs about $500 bucks and they're working on it all day checking and adjusting 'stuff'.

I think bleeding the brakes is one of those things I could learn to do after seeing it done once. But I think I'd have all the painted parts covered with garbage can liners. Honest, I can visualize me somehow shooting a geizer of DOT 5 out of the master cylinder and on to the tank, wind screen, fairing and fender. That'd be $700.00 and then some.

Tech day. Tech day. Tech day.

[SWB]

I don't find the do-it-yourself-it's-easy advise helpful to those of us who do know which end of a screw driver to use but when we use them, we always strip out the head.

 

To a certain extent, I agree with you. The learning curve is pretty high for some who may have never really owned a decent set of wrenches. I have a couple of brothers in law who are a heck of a lot smarter than I am. They have a lot of ego, but they just don't have much in the way of common sense or patience. Or, they feel that it's beneath them to get their hands dirty. There's a guy at work that was amazed at the work I was doing on my bike, and he replied "I just take to it to the shop and let them do it..".

 

I do have a bit of mechanical aptitude. There are things I've made assumptions about all my life, and find out I was way off base when I actually start working on the bike. I think my engineering training in the Navy was pretty valuable in understanding the basics of hydraulics, engines, and so forth. But overall, it's a real challenge for me to open up a hood on a car, or to peek under the plastics on my Beemer.

 

However, that said, I can also sympathize with the novice who is scared off by the very task of pulling off the tupperware. After the tenth, fifteenth, twentieth screw sits on the workbench, the thought crosses your mind that you many never figure out how these things all fit together. Or worse, you may assemble them "wrong" and lose a critical piece of the bike, like the front wheel.

 

Well, after the first time you remove and reassemble the tupperware, it's not much of a mystery. And then you start to figure out what that mass of tubing, ABS pump, battery, and cables are all about underneath the tupperware. When I was R&R'ing the transmission, there were a half dozen times that I said to myself "..oh boy, now you've done it.. now you'll never get this thing back together". There have been a dozen times where I've started at and studied my bike and the parts for most of a weekend, because I was too scared and/or confused to continue. When I got the transmission off, boy oh boy there were a lot of parts hanging around. When I got to the clutch assembly, I was sure I'd mess up reassembly (and in fact, thought I had, when I forgot to adjust the clutch at the rear of the bike, and had no tension in the clutch). The flywheel.. that was incredibly difficult to break those bolts lose. And then, the rear crank oil seal, actually a double seal. I ruined the inner seal during my first attempt, and thereby figured out how the seals, vent tube, how the slots in the cam shaft all worked together. I thought I'd never get the seals on without the $350 BMW tool, and I couldn't find a loaner. But I created a makeshift tool out of a couple of soda cans, a plastic irrigation drain cover, and a block of wood sanded down to fit inside the cover so that I could tap on the seal to the proper depth. And oh boy, even removing those seals was tough; I thought I was going to scratch the cam shaft for sure. And when I finally got the seals installed and seated properly, I worried that I'd get the bike together and one would start to leak due to my lousy work, but it didn't happen. I worried that the fly wheel would fly off because I didn't properly torque the flywheel with a dial-indicator type wrench. That didn't happen.

 

Step by step, I've gotten through my transmission R&R, clutch, break jobs, zero-zero tuning, cables R&R, and the rest of my work. And virtually every step along the way, I felt certain that I'd bitten off more than I could chew, that I'd finally gotten to a point where I'd have to take it into BMW and beg forgiveness for daring to work on my own BMW. But each time, success bred more success.

 

Anyone CAN do it, but many simply won't go though the process I just described. But for those who choose to have the patience, the determination, for those who are willing to overcome their fears, and build on the last success to overcome the next obstacle, they'll bild a lot of self-confidence in their ability to overcome whatever the road throws at them.

 

I'm kind of happy I've done all this work. At this point, I've probably already dealt with about 80% of the failures I'm likely to see on the road. If the HES dies, I'll have a pretty good idea of what happened, and will have a very good idea of what I would need to rebuild it, reinstall it, and be on my way. If I have brake problems, I now how to break down the system component by component to identify and solve the problem, because I've already serviced nearly every component of the brake system.

 

No one should be afraid of working on a bike or vehicle. It's a "freeing", and confidence building experience. Those who decline to make the effort to learn or perform their service are losing half the value of their riding experience.

 

Scott

[roydog007]

I rounded up 24k labor only quote it was actually

"Only 692.00" If that makes you feel better

 

The parts are an additional 264.00

plus tax & hazmat fees...

Total 982.00

 

 

[Lion_lady]

I rounded up 24k labor only quote it was actually

"Only 692.00" If that makes you feel better

 

The parts are an additional 264.00

plus tax & hazmat fees...

Total 982.00

 

 

HOLY CRUDMONKIES!!! And I thought $230 for parts AND labor for the ABS and Clutch service was a bit much.

 

P

[Jerry Johnston]

I agree with all the Do-It-Yourselfers but I've also seen guys who have absolutely no mechanical aptitude what so ever. They're the ones who would try and screw a light bulb in backwards. I think there are some who maybe the stress isn't worth it and want to support the dealer they bought from, which is OK. The same guy who doesn't want to get his hands greasey may be the same guy who says do your own taxes - it's easy (but drove me nuts!)

[roydog007]

If I had the dough I would have the dealer do it. Sometimes I have overtime work on the weekends that would more than cover the cost of the service. But I haven't had much lately. Besides I think I'm getting cheaper in my old age. There is another point to this though. Suppose I'm in the middle of nowhere USA, by myself, with no cell phone service. I've got a broken alt belt and a boken throttle cable ??? It would be nice to have the parts and a little experience changing them out, some tools might be nice too ?

[keithb]

So you are telling me the work we are doing tomorrow rings up at $1,000? I think we will be upgrading the lunch menu from pizza and beer to 1 1/2" thick ribeye's and Grey Goose. Can't wait bro.

[Deadboy]

I have never considered myself that mechanical but I know for a fact I am a cheap SOB so I had to learn....my dealer is around 60 miles away and hasn't seen my bike since its 600 mile service (it has over 42,000 now).

 

It is sooooo easy once you get over the fear factor. I just did a final drive and engine oil change yesterday and really like knowing it was done right....before my last trip I pulled the heads and checked the valves....not because they were due yet but because I could....one less thing to think about when you are far from home...hell I even have a tire changer and balancer now, not something I ever expected to own....

 

I will be in Pickerington/Reynoldsburg (AMA offices) on August 8th-10th if you want some help...I land late (9:30 pm) on Wednesday but will not be ready for bed for at least a few hours....we could get the oil changed and get it ready for a valve adjustment if you want to....seriously let me know and I will bring the needed tools....

[Jerry Johnston]

Actually an alternator belt is darn near as easy to do as changing your oil and if you're worried at all about it I'd change it long before it breaks out in the wilderness when it's easiest to do. I agree the more you know about the bike the better but wrenching just isn't every one forte. I've always been one to try it even if I break it and over the years have learned how far to go. It is very satisfying to accomplish a job well done and very frustrating to screw something up. Some of us only screw up once while others can screw up every time - if it's not their thing.

I'd like to be an aritst but sadly there are some things just out of my reach.

[tallman]

Red, I understand where you are coming from, I'd never worked on any kind of machine before I bought my RT in 2002 (at age 45). I went to a tech daze just to watch but was persuaded to work on my bike and haven't looked back since. I'll never attempt a major repair like a final drive or transmission but I easily get regular servicing and tyre changes done. I still don't enjoy it particularly but it's better than paying someone else 200 miles away to do it on their schedule rather than mine and I know it gets done right (mostly).

 

[hijack]

Bob, you're 50?????

You don't look it.

[byejack]

[outpost22]

To all you motivators an encouragers, thank you. It all sounds great and works up to the point where I stand over the bike, tool box at the ready thinking, if I screw this up I'm gonna have to load that beast in the truck by myself without a wheel (pick one), brakes, or other important functional part and haul this puppy 185 miles to the dealer to clean up my mess.

 

Well Red, you're about 4 hours from me and I'm 10 minutes from the dealer. If WE screw it up, WE can haul it over there on my trailer

 

Actually, I have a bike lift and can easily show YOU how to do your oil change and change the alternantor belt. Also, the valve adjustment is a snap. We also have the same year and model bike. We could even do the HES change out at the same time if you buy one from BMWMick.

I don't have brake flush tools or a TwinMax for throttle body sych, but those items the dealer could do quickly and probably as a "squeeze in" appointment. Think about it.

[roydog007]

So you are telling me the work we are doing tomorrow rings up at $1,000? I think we will be upgrading the lunch menu from pizza and beer to 1 1/2" thick ribeye's and Grey Goose. Can't wait bro.

 

Your on

Thanks for passing on the skills

[Bob Palin]

[hijack]

Bob, you're 50?????

You don't look it.

[byejack]

It's the stress of working on BMW!