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Dealer arrogance leaving a bad taste in my mouth?


GoGo Gadget

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GoGo Gadget

The dealer I go to for service is rubbing me the wrong way. I bought my bike in another state because they offered the bike to me at $1800 below MSRP. The dealer close to me offered it at MSRP, like 99% of the other BMW dealers do. When I picked it up after the 600 mile service 2 months ago, the service manager said, "Oh, you have the bike from Pennsylvania?" as a way to identify my bike. As opposed to, "Oh, you have the silver R12RT?"

 

Today, I go by there for some warranty work on my sidecase. After checking the VIN, he asks if I am the second owner. I say no, and he says, "So you went to Pennsylvania to buy the bike?" I told him that if they had come to within $800 of what I got it for, I would have bought it here, but it is hard to walk away from a $1800 savings.

 

He ordered the parts I need, which is basically the back half of my sidecase because they cannot order the $.40 part by itself. He then said that I would not get service like that in Pennsylvania. I said "Well that is why I come here for service." but thinking, "What? They don't honor warranty work anywhere but here?" He then replied that I should be buying my bikes here so they can stay in business.

 

I wanted to get in to a business discussion with him about how it is their responsiblity to be competitive with their business practices, not my responsibility to support them like a charity. But I was honestly worried about the type of service I would get if I got into that with him.

 

 

 

Am I way off base here? I support the local guy. I go to my buddies gunshop to buy stuff I could get cheaper online. I go to this BMW shop to buy stuff I can get cheaper online. But if I can get it for a significant amount less, I am not going to throw money away.

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Definite "attitude" from that service person. I would not be too happy either.

 

I got the same kind of treatment by the sales folks at our local BMW dealer. The prices on their used bikes were way too high, sidestepped the issue when I called them on it, asking them to offer me a more fair price. I wanted a bike and have zero patience for auto/bike salesman games and ended up buying from a private party. F'em if they don't even try to offer a competive price or treat you with a modicum of respect.

 

Speak with your $$$. Take your bike elsewhere for non-warranty service.

 

How the heck would this person know anything about how good the servive is in Penn anyhow.

 

If the attitude continued, i'd call the owner directly and tell him exactly how his staff treats you, you are not happy, and that if asked, I will share the negative experiences with others.

 

Keep in mind you'll probably get a survey after your repair. That's a good place to comment on your observations.

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I can't get my bike serviced at the local dealer because I went to the US to save $3000 on a bike that was discontinued and he could not get anyway. Says I can have service in the off-season, but he doesn't have enough staff during the summer to service bikes that he didn't sell. Tough for him. Fortunately there is another shop - not a dealer - that services BMW in town.

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Lets_Play_Two
The dealer I go to for service is rubbing me the wrong way. I bought my bike in another state because they offered the bike to me at $1800 below MSRP. The dealer close to me offered it at MSRP, like 99% of the other BMW dealers do. When I picked it up after the 600 mile service 2 months ago, the service manager said, "Oh, you have the bike from Pennsylvania?" as a way to identify my bike. As opposed to, "Oh, you have the silver R12RT?"

 

Today, I go by there for some warranty work on my sidecase. After checking the VIN, he asks if I am the second owner. I say no, and he says, "So you went to Pennsylvania to buy the bike?" I told him that if they had come to within $800 of what I got it for, I would have bought it here, but it is hard to walk away from a $1800 savings.

 

He ordered the parts I need, which is basically the back half of my sidecase because they cannot order the $.40 part by itself. He then said that I would not get service like that in Pennsylvania. I said "Well that is why I come here for service." but thinking, "What? They don't honor warranty work anywhere but here?" He then replied that I should be buying my bikes here so they can stay in business.

 

I wanted to get in to a business discussion with him about how it is their responsiblity to be competitive with their business practices, not my responsibility to support them like a charity. But I was honestly worried about the type of service I would get if I got into that with him.

 

 

 

Am I way off base here? I support the local guy. I go to my buddies gunshop to buy stuff I could get cheaper online. I go to this BMW shop to buy stuff I can get cheaper online. But if I can get it for a significant amount less, I am not going to throw money away.

 

So, your loyalty has a price and so does your dealer's. You buy from those who give you a price and he supports those who buy from him...seems fair to me.

 

You were probably right in deciding not to lecture him on his business practices. He didn't refuse to do the warranty work did he? He has no responsibility to you to be competitive any more than you have a responsibility to him to buy from the local dealer.

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The dealer I go to for service is rubbing me the wrong way. I bought my bike in another state because they offered the bike to me at $1800 below MSRP. The dealer close to me offered it at MSRP, like 99% of the other BMW dealers do. When I picked it up after the 600 mile service 2 months ago, the service manager said, "Oh, you have the bike from Pennsylvania?" as a way to identify my bike. As opposed to, "Oh, you have the silver R12RT?"

 

Today, I go by there for some warranty work on my sidecase. After checking the VIN, he asks if I am the second owner. I say no, and he says, "So you went to Pennsylvania to buy the bike?" I told him that if they had come to within $800 of what I got it for, I would have bought it here, but it is hard to walk away from a $1800 savings.

 

He ordered the parts I need, which is basically the back half of my sidecase because they cannot order the $.40 part by itself. He then said that I would not get service like that in Pennsylvania. I said "Well that is why I come here for service." but thinking, "What? They don't honor warranty work anywhere but here?" He then replied that I should be buying my bikes here so they can stay in business.

 

I wanted to get in to a business discussion with him about how it is their responsiblity to be competitive with their business practices, not my responsibility to support them like a charity. But I was honestly worried about the type of service I would get if I got into that with him.

 

 

 

Am I way off base here? I support the local guy. I go to my buddies gunshop to buy stuff I could get cheaper online. I go to this BMW shop to buy stuff I can get cheaper online. But if I can get it for a significant amount less, I am not going to throw money away.

 

I believe your sentiments are well founded.

 

In Canada, one of the challenges is that there are very few BMW bike dealers across the country. Consequently one is somewhat at the mercy of the local dealer. Fortunately, where we are we can go out of province to get the best deals, and a local BMW master mechanic (left the local dealer) does our work.

 

I understand the concept of loyalty to the local guys, but when that verges on stupidity, I go elsewhere.

 

Cheers........Rod

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... Am I way off base here? I support the local guy. I go to my buddies gunshop to buy stuff I could get cheaper online. I go to this BMW shop to buy stuff I can get cheaper online. But if I can get it for a significant amount less, I am not going to throw money away.

No you're quite correct. Dealers with the attitude of buy the bike here or die are just plain stupid. It has nothing to do with loyalty.

 

Dealers stay alive on service ... warranty, non warranty or parts ... the dollars all go to the bank the same regardless of where the bike was purchased. To potentially turn off/loose customers due to stupid comments/attitudes ultimately means less money in the bank ... sounds like a great business plan!

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G.G.G. and Ron Stewart

I had a hard time believing what I was reading about your dealers in Canada. How friggin short sighted than these guys be? The best thing you can do is to learn as much as you can about servicing your bike (which is really pretty easy) and give your dealer the high forearm. Geez, what arrogant asses! I had a similar situation about a year ago and have taken my warranty business to another dealer and I do the 6K miles service intervals. Sorry for the rant but this really rubbed me the wrong way.

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Baba_ORiley

Imagine the effect it would have had on you if he instead said something like:

 

"Too bad we couldn't meet your expectations when you were buying a bike, but this dealership values you as a service customer and we want to make sure you know your business is very welcomed here."

 

 

Yeah, probably just a fantasy on my part. But, think about it. If he had said something like that, (and meant it), then backed it up with good quality service, he'd probably win you over as an enthusiastic customer -- rather than a understandably disillusioned and reluctant patron like you are now. The guy's an idiot.

 

 

 

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I'm a firm believer in giving the local dealer first shot at my money. I will pay extra for convience, service, and even good will. But $1800 is charity. I might talk to them and see how close they could come to the other price, but for $1800 difference, you shouldn't have to support the local dealer by yourself.

 

As for the rest: Ask the service manager if you can cut his grass for $2000.

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Lets_Play_Two
Imagine the effect it would have had on you if he instead said something like:

 

"Too bad we couldn't meet your expectations when you were buying a bike, but this dealership values you as a service customer and we want to make sure you know your business is very welcomed here."

 

 

Yeah, probably just a fantasy on my part. But, think about it. If he had said something like that, (and meant it), then backed it up with good quality service, he'd probably win you over as an enthusiastic customer -- rather than a understandably disillusioned and reluctant patron like you are now. The guy's an idiot.

 

 

 

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I don't see how you can draw that conclusion. Gadget already said that he viewed $1800 as charity he was not willing to engage in, and according to his complaint he expected that exceptional service from this dealer without having provided any other business...isn't that the gripe? So even if the dealer provided what Gadget sees as his service entitlement, unless the dealer can meet the expected price he won't get the business. On that basis, what is the dealer's motivation to go out of his way to woo the unwooable?

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I bought my first Wing from dealer A. They had a great selection of used bikes at the time. Dealer B had a much better service department and I started using them for tires and such. B was always great to deal with. They made me feel welcome and did not care that I bought the bike elsewhere. Four years later I bought my second Wing from B.

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...and according to his complaint he expected that exceptional service from this dealer without having provided any other business...isn't that the gripe?
Nothing in the OPs post said anything about him expecting *exceptional* service ... all he expected was normal warranty service without being hassled because he didn't buy the bike there ...

 

So, if I move to another state, am I doomed to verbal harrasment just 'cause I didn't buy the bike at that dealership "so they can stay in business"? Regardless, what prevents me from expecting outstanding service from any vendor even if its my first transaction with them? In fact, is it not to the benefit of the vendor to provide that great first contact to get me back?

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Imagine the effect it would have had on you if he instead said something like:

 

"Too bad we couldn't meet your expectations when you were buying a bike, but this dealership values you as a service customer and we want to make sure you know your business is very welcomed here."

 

 

Yeah, probably just a fantasy on my part. But, think about it. If he had said something like that, (and meant it), then backed it up with good quality service, he'd probably win you over as an enthusiastic customer -- rather than a understandably disillusioned and reluctant patron like you are now. The guy's an idiot.

 

You captured my thought on this. I'm having a hard time believing customers respond favorably to being chided for shopping elsewhere.

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Lets_Play_Two

"So, if I move to another state, am I doomed to verbal harrasment just 'cause I didn't buy the bike at that dealership "so they can stay in business"? Regardless, what prevents me from expecting outstanding service from any vendor even if its my first transaction with them? In fact, is it not to the benefit of the vendor to provide that great first contact to get me back? "

 

I have nothing against expecting outstanding service. My point is that why would you be surprised at some response from a dealer you just told you wouldn't buy from them because they didn't have the best price. And then deciding that maybe you should lecture him about appropriate business practice. Maybe the question is Who was more arrogant and did either have the right to expect more than what they got.

 

I have a right to buy where ever I want for what ever reason. But then to expect the dealer...who has feelings just like the buyer not to react seems to be naive.

 

Buy from whom you want. Don't we expect the dealer to remember us when we buy from him? Don't we have some expectation that we bought something other than just the motorcycle? If the dealer is a lousy businessman then that's his problem.

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You are justified in your issues with the dealer and as Chris said, their practice towards you is plain stupid. As I understand it from a couple of dealers, very little profit comes from the sale of motorcycles, rather most of their profit comes from service, parts & accessories. Sure dealers want to sell motorcycles, but in reality, they are really hoping the buyer returns for service etc. I wonder would that dealer strike the same attitude if you arrived from out of town on a trip and needed service?

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Baba_ORiley
....according to his complaint he expected that exceptional service from this dealer without having provided any other business...isn't that the gripe?

It should be any customer's gripe. I damn well expect exceptional service, whether its my first visit to a dealership or my 27th. Are you saying a customer has to somehow earn the right to be treated well by a dealership?

...So even if the dealer provided what Gadget sees as his service entitlement, unless the dealer can meet the expected price he won't get the business.

I assume you mean "business" as in a future bike purchase, since the dealership didn't get his business on the purchase of Gadget's current bike. Well, it's a big cruel world out there. Dealerships are going to win some and lose some. Customers are under no obligation to pay more than the going rate on the sale of a bike in order to be treated well for a service appointment.

...On that basis, what is the dealer's motivation to go out of his way to woo the unwooable?

The motivation is to treat all customers the right way, not carry a grudge on a lost sale like a petulant child. The dealership needs to lick its collective wounds, and then earn each sale and/or service appt. If they can't or won't compete on price, then they'd better be competitive through exceptional customer service. Sounds like the dealership in question didn't do very well on either.

 

 

 

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My point is that why would you be surprised at some response from a dealer you just told you wouldn't buy from them because they didn't have the best price.

The O/P said that he would have been willing to buy from that particular dealership if they would have come to within $800 of the price he ended up paying. Not quite splitting the difference, but close. Looks like the O/P was willing to spend a little extra to buy there, but the dealership wasn't willing to give a little extra to land the sale.

 

So the dealership ends up only doing the service work, when, with a little give, they could have had two feathers in their cap by making a sale AND getting to do the service. And after all that, the service rep feels a need to poke the guy in the ribs about buying a bike there?

 

I'll agree with you on one thing - there's no need to discuss business practices with the people there. If their practices are lousy, typically, that situation ends up fixing itself eventually, one way or another.

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I could not agree with you more BOR. When I bought my first BMW in 1993 I was going to buy it new from a dealer here in SoCal. The very next day in the Sunday paper I saw the same model used bike for $3K less w/4K miles on it and it did not include a trade in on my bike ($3K cash + I sold my bike for $1500). Total savings to me was $4500. I bought it from the private party and called the dealer to let him know I was not buying the new bike. He was disappointed to say the least. Point blank I asked him if had the same opportunity to save $3K + my trade in would he have done the same thing? There was silence on the other end of the phone. I did mention I would have the service done there and he was good with it. Still bummed but happy to have the service. Later during the conversation I found out the dealership tried to buy the same used bike that I bought. This pretty much should let you know how I feel about the $1800 savings and the $3000 savings from buying the bike in the U.S. Money talks and bullshit walks.

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This is quite interesting to me. My parents have been in business since before I was born. Customer service and business management have therefore been a major part of my life. I find that I am usually very critical of the customer service practices of most business as with the background of being in a family business I know how important it is. From what was said here I do think the manager was wrong in the approach he took. Condeming or belittling customers is definetly not the right approach.

I have dealt with my local dealer and been VERY pleased with all the service I have received. I know some of the items cost me a little more than I may find on the net or possibly another retailer. However, anytime I have had a question they are there with an answer, emergency repair-there, need a bike while mine's in the shop-got it, the customer service I receive is well worth the couple extra bucks I spend there sometimes. I can understand that you wouldn't want to spend an extra $1800, and especially not with the service that this particular dealer seems to offer. The dealer certainly needs to look into their customer service practices.

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DaveTheAffable
So, your loyalty has a price and so does your dealer's. You buy from those who give you a price and he supports those who buy from him...seems fair to me.

You were probably right in deciding not to lecture him on his business practices. He didn't refuse to do the warranty work did he? He has no responsibility to you to be competitive any more than you have a responsibility to him to buy from the local dealer.

 

I agree with you SO much... As a general topic, people all want "Internet prices", and Luxury service from the local guy after the sale. I'm generalizing... so don't flame me about how much dealers make... or don't make.

 

I used to work at a car dealership years ago. It was STANDARD practice to put other dealers cars at the back of the line when it came time to do warranty work. The work was still done well, we didn't want to have to do it over again, but the local customers got service first. Wrong maybe... but understandable.

 

GoGo Gadget... what you percieved as arrogance, and you may be right, could also be simple disapointment at loss of a sale no matter who's to blame.

 

My second hobby is Video Editing. I can buy cameras and editing equipment from New York, and overseas, and save tons of money. I don't.

 

I buy locally here in L.A., or Burbank, pay sales taxes, and when something needs work, or I need advice, it's there for me. I find a helpful local business owner who's eager to see my equipment work well. Just like you do with the gunshop. thumbsup.gif

 

The question is... did you get good service? In spite of them being saddened by the loss of a sale.

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....according to his complaint he expected that exceptional service from this dealer without having provided any other business...isn't that the gripe?

It should be any customer's gripe. I damn well expect exceptional service, whether its my first visit to a dealership or my 27th. Are you saying a customer has to somehow earn the right to be treated well by a dealership?

...So even if the dealer provided what Gadget sees as his service entitlement, unless the dealer can meet the expected price he won't get the business.

I assume you mean "business" as in a future bike purchase, since the dealership didn't get his business on the purchase of Gadget's current bike. Well, it's a big cruel world out there. Dealerships are going to win some and lose some. Customers are under no obligation to pay more than the going rate on the sale of a bike in order to be treated well for a service appointment.

...On that basis, what is the dealer's motivation to go out of his way to woo the unwooable?

The motivation is to treat all customers the right way, not carry a grudge on a lost sale like a petulant child. The dealership needs to lick its collective wounds, and then earn each sale and/or service appt. If they can't or won't compete on price, then they'd better be competitive through exceptional customer service. Sounds like the dealership in question didn't do very well on either.

 

 

 

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+1

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St0nkingByte

Anyone who feels a sense of loyalty to a business they don't own based solely on its location relative to where they sleep is misguided blush.gif

 

There's no such thing as INTERNET pricing, only informed consumers. If the guy two states away has the bike you want with really low INTERNET pricing, that's INTERNET pricing to you but its the regular everyday love-the-local-guy price to the people that live two states away. In world where consumers are driving towards having nearly perfect information about the cost of purchases retailers are going to have to find better ways than location and guilt to position themselves in the marketplace if they want to succeed.

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Anyone who feels a sense of loyalty to a business they don't own based solely on its location relative to where they sleep is misguided blush.gif

 

There's no such thing as INTERNET pricing, only informed consumers. If the guy two states away has the bike you want with really low INTERNET pricing, that's INTERNET pricing to you but its the regular everyday love-the-local-guy price to the people that live two states away. In world where consumers are driving towards having nearly perfect information about the cost of purchases retailers are going to have to find better ways than location and guilt to position themselves in the marketplace if they want to succeed.

 

+++What he said--the internet has completely changed the rules!! I loved it when my dealer sneered to me "low internet pricing---I won't meet it! Don't bring me any competitive offers you got from the *internet*". Ooohhhh, devil internet--evil internet!! (same internet dealer uses when he's shopping for a new TV or refrigerator). So I made 3 tele. calls to dealers within 300 miles of my home and suddenly his statements were BS--saved $1400. I did call the sales rep. back just to give him last look and he immediately dropped his offer but still couldn't (wouldn't) get close. Maybe he figured if he met the offer exactly, it would be an admission he was full of BS.

Yesterday, I picked up my *INTERNET* R12RT from this same dealer's service dept. for warranty replacement of the ZFE--they are now just TOO happy to handle my *INTERNET* bike's warranty work.

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Lets_Play_Two
....according to his complaint he expected that exceptional service from this dealer without having provided any other business...isn't that the gripe?

It should be any customer's gripe. I damn well expect exceptional service, whether its my first visit to a dealership or my 27th. Are you saying a customer has to somehow earn the right to be treated well by a dealership?

...So even if the dealer provided what Gadget sees as his service entitlement, unless the dealer can meet the expected price he won't get the business.

I assume you mean "business" as in a future bike purchase, since the dealership didn't get his business on the purchase of Gadget's current bike. Well, it's a big cruel world out there. Dealerships are going to win some and lose some. Customers are under no obligation to pay more than the going rate on the sale of a bike in order to be treated well for a service appointment.

...On that basis, what is the dealer's motivation to go out of his way to woo the unwooable?

The motivation is to treat all customers the right way, not carry a grudge on a lost sale like a petulant child. The dealership needs to lick its collective wounds, and then earn each sale and/or service appt. If they can't or won't compete on price, then they'd better be competitive through exceptional customer service. Sounds like the dealership in question didn't do very well on either.

 

 

 

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+1

 

You need to read the entire dialog rather than respond to a single post out of context.

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GoGo Gadget
The question is... did you get good service? In spite of them being saddened by the loss of a sale.

 

That is yet to be seen, all they did is order the parts at this point. Although when I got my 6k service done in San Jose, I learned that the local guy screwed up the threaded part that the valve adjuster nut goes onto when he did the 600 mile service. I will give them an opportunity to fix that when they do the 12k service. If I get grief about it, they will never see my service again. The owner is a really good guy, I have had many long conversations with him hanging out in the store in the past. I will have a sit down with him if it gets that far.

 

 

For those that think I am off base, how do you shop? Do you find the geographically closest store for whatever product you want and then pay whatever price they ask? If you go bike shopping, and the dealer has $3k in accessories on the bike that you don't want, will you pay the price and thank him for the allowing you the pleasure of purchasing a motorcycle from him?

 

Some of these dealership could just have tags with barcodes on the bikes. Just pull the tag off and take it to the cash register. If you want to order a bike, just go to the computer kiosk and order it through the website. Getting rid of their sales staff would increase their profit margin.

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Like you, I am prepared to pay some premium for local vehicles, parts and service. But I am no idiot, nor do I respond well to being treated like one. And if I can get better selection, more convenience or save a lot elsewhere, I will.

 

I bought my RT used, but the primary buyer bought it from the local dealer, so I took it there for all the service while it was under warranty. I got tired of "little things" they screwed up or wouldn't do so I started doing the service myself. They still get all my parts orders at 10-15% off (as a regular customer) and delivery is usually pretty prompt. Their accessory department is full of arrogant young punks who show no interest in anything that isn't flashy - so I go to a "mature rider" friendly store for most of the rider gear. Oh, except that helmet I bought last year on the internet at 35% lower then I could get it locally.

 

I figure that a dealer shouldn't care where you bought your bike any more then they should care where you have moved from with the bike (which is what I would tell them). They get the same hourly rate, charge the same for parts, get the same amount from BMWNA for warranty work and can just put you in the queue.

 

If they have a shop policy of always servicing their own sales first, that should be on a poster right out front for everyone to see. And it should say if it applies only to "drop ins" (which I can understand) or to booked appointments (which makes no sense).

 

And I'm not surprised by Ron Stewart's experience with his local BMW/Ducati dealer. I am in Vancouver frequently and stopped into JV looking at BMW rider gear once. I told the (middle aged male) salesperson I was trying to decide between the Aerostich Roadcrafter and the Savanna suit. His response was:

 

"Do you want everyone to think you are one of those cheap guys that uses a 'stich or that you chose quality in both your bike and your gear?"

 

Thinking this was tongue-in-cheek, I went on to describe what I thought the relative merits of each were. His response was:

 

"Go cheap, then"

 

What an arrogant a$$. I actually bought the Savanna gear, but not from him.

 

Mike Cassidy

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"Do you want everyone to think you are one of those cheap guys that uses a 'stich or that you chose quality in both your bike and your gear?"

 

Thinking this was tongue-in-cheek, I went on to describe what I thought the relative merits of each were. His response was:

 

"Go cheap, then"

 

What an arrogant a$$. I actually bought the Savanna gear, but not from him.

 

Mike Cassidy

 

Actually, I find this rather amusing as I tend to think of a 'Stich as the cream of the crop, not cheap... at least mine purchased over 7 years ago and still going strong...

 

That guys is a sweetheart.

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Comments like those you received show ignorance, not just arrogance.

 

Try as we might, we can't please every customer every time. Some days we will have the bike he's looking for at a price that he likes. Some days we won't. Same for pricing on accessories. Sometimes we're able to cut special deals with our vendors and can pass those savings along. Sometimes we can't, but a competitor might have. It varies.

 

What some employees don't learn is that everyone gets their wins and losses. You try and get more of the former than the latter, but trying to lock in a geographic market simply because you're the sole player in it is foolish. Customers can tell when you're playing the "you're trapped" card. And in today's world, they're rarely, if ever, stuck without options.

 

We're in a competitive (SoCal) market. There are seven BMW dealers within 90 minutes of us, nine within two hours and 11 within 4 hours. We are competitive most of the time. But if bike-X with the LMNOP package just arrived, we may not be as flexible as the dealer who has that same bike, but has been paying flooring on it for the past 4 months. We want to sell ours. And we will. He NEEDS to sell his. And the reverse is often true as well. Many things determine how motivated a seller, be they private or commercial, is. You don't give away what you don't have to. But if you don't have to, you're never rude to a customer about it. And you never, ever, EVER retaliate in any way, be it verbally or otherwise.

 

Customers, if spoken to honestly, will respect you. And if you can't (or won't) match a given price, or offer the same deal, and you show them sincere sorrow that the circumstances aren't working out for the two of you, they may buy elsewhere but they will still come back to you because they know that they can get honesty and courtesy from you. We've built a business on that for the past 50 years. And while you can't be all things to all people, you can be honest and courteous to every last one of them.

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GoGo Gadget
And while you can't be all things to all people, you can be honest and courteous to every last one of them.

 

And that is all I ever expect.

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And while you can't be all things to all people, you can be honest and courteous to every last one of them.

 

And that is all I ever expect.

 

I have no problem with people that do there "Due Dilegence"

and get the best price possible for them selves and I don't even care that they may expect thier local dealer to perform the service and warranty work with a reasonable attitude,But if I buy my new BMW from a local dealer and he tells me that he can't get my bike in for two weeks because the shop is booked up with "other Dealers sales",

he'll never see another another sale from me.

That would be MY.. definition of "Bad Business".

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What a great thread for me to read! I have been lurking and researching what my next bike will be. I really like the R12RT but have also been considering another ST1300. One of the "variables" in my analysis is the available dealer networks. I live in Las Vegas, NV, and as such, there is only one local dealer. I have spent several hours talking with a salesman at this dealership and really appreciate his time and expertise. If I buy a BMW, I would like to buy from this salesperson. I have not tried to negotiate the purchase of a new BMW motorcycle yet, but I have "inquired" about pricing flexibility, and was lead to believe that this particular dealership doesn't have much room to move from MSRP...plus a $400

"Doc Fee"...plus (I think) a $300 "Setup Fee". I made a phone call to a BMW dealer near my hometown in the Midwest, and in less than 5 minutes the salesman offered me a new R12RT for $1500 off MSRP, no fees. I truly believe in developing a "relationship" with my local dealer, but I have to draw the line somewhere. I am an internet research junky. I like to make informed decisions. I also believe that my geographic region for purchasing a new bike is quite large...I'm only a $200 one way ticket away from pretty much anywhere in the USA. And I am purchasing a bike becuase I like to ride, so if I have to ride from Chicago to Las Vegas, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Anyway, I have silently wondered many times if my local dealer would be unprofessional to me if I did buy out of state...I'd pretty much be screwed as my choices for service are limited. All of this has lead me to think maybe another ST1300 would be a better choice because as I'm sure everybody knows, there is no shortage of Honda dealers. Sorry for the long post, but this topic hit home for me. Decisions, decisions...

 

Paul

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And I'm not surprised by Ron Stewart's experience with his local BMW/Ducati dealer.
The kicker is that one of their sales people had laughed at me - and I mean that literally - a few days after the introduction of the K1200RT when I asked her if there were any 1150s available.

 

OTOH, their service people handled a warranty issue quickly and well in April 2005. I was happy enough with them that I bought a Santiago outfit at a steep price from the same salesman who recently told be he would not service my bike.

 

In the recent conversation he told me that he would not accept my bike in trade for an LT, although he would help me out with a paper shuffle to avoid sales tax if I sold my RT in a private sale and bought an LT from him.

 

Mixed messages. I neither love nor hate this dealer. And there are BMW and Ducati alternatives closer to my place should the need arise.

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I can't get my bike serviced at the local dealer because I went to the US to save $3000 on a bike that was discontinued and he could not get anyway. Says I can have service in the off-season, but he doesn't have enough staff during the summer to service bikes that he didn't sell. Tough for him. Fortunately there is another shop - not a dealer - that services BMW in town.

Ron,

 

That "other shop" is Shale's, correct? BE CAREFUL! Be VERY careful!

 

Is the shop that refuses in-season service "Pacific BMW-Yamaha"? Or is is "John Valk BMW Ducati"? I'd like to know which of these to avoid.

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But if I buy my new BMW from a local dealer and he tells me that he can't get my bike in for two weeks because the shop is booked up with "other Dealers sales",

I have a slight problem with that. I bought my bike used, from a private party, so that means I should take a back seat to those who are behind me in line because they bought their bike from that dealer? That to me is discrimination. I am paying the same rate the next guy is and my money is just as good as theirs. However, I wont be paying any dealer since I will only be there for warranty service should I need it.

 

 

To answer the original poster...

Am I way off base here?
I dont think so. I would have done and felt the same as you. The only difference is that would be the last time I go there. BMW is going to end up chasing their customers away. I have spoken to several riders that told me "I would have bought a BMW, but they dont seem like that want to sell them". The guy that said that was riding his brand new Wing home for the first time. I love my RT, but I'm not sure that I will buy another BMW.

BTW - since I know for a fact that dealers read these forums, maybe they should consider what the customer wants.

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Why is there such a large difference in prices? Granted, a dealer has to make more profit margin than a warehouse outlet, but $1500 or $2k seems excessive. When the dealer only has to go on the internet, order it himself, and then charge you for his time and trouble, it isn't a $2k difference.

 

I remember during the 70's gas crisis, a buddy and I went to a Cadillac dealer just to see what he would do on a new car. He said to look at the sticker. Wouldn't come down at all. His reasoning was that he was only going to sell a few cars that month and needed to make all his overhead on fewer units. And, if you wanted a Cadillac, then you wanted a Cadillac and would pay for it. He was depending on having his "fan base" support him through the lean times and not seeking new business.

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Says I can have service in the off-season, but he doesn't have enough staff during the summer to service bikes that he didn't sell.

 

So, if I moved to the area, he wouldn't service either of my BMWs? I think not. I'll bet he would love to take my money from me for service he does on them.

 

I am so glad that the local shop here is top notch and I don't have to deal with these issues. Although we (my wife and I) did buy her 1150R through the local dealer (it was used). However, they never gave me any grief about servicing my RT which I purchased out of state.

 

Wayne

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KingBiscuit

I'm reading this thread with interest. Recently, I had been looking at a couple of 04 R1150RTs at a local dealer. One had 47K miles, the other 27K miles. The first really showed the miles, the second was in pretty good shape. I told them outright, that I wasn't interested in the 47K bike, but might be interested in the 27K bike. Went back to buy and they had sold the bike. I asked the dealer to call me if he got a good 04 R1150RT in, I've never heard from him and it's been over a month. Next day, I found an 04 limited edition with only 7K miles for about the same price. The bike was showroom perfect and I bought it. I'm wondering how service will be with the local shop..they seem to be really customer oriented there so I'm betting it will be fine. Will find out eventually.

 

I have read some good arguments on both sides of this story. I've learned one thing in my years. If you're in business, your motto should be "if you need it, we've got it! If we ain't got it, we can get it. If we can't get it, you don't need it". If a business does everything it can to help the customer, they will remain a business for a long time. That's the bottom line.

 

For what that's worth,

Dan

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I have a slight problem with that. I bought my bike used, from a private party, so that means I should take a back seat to those who are behind me in line because they bought their bike from that dealer? That to me is discrimination. I am paying the same rate the next guy is[/ib]....
Not necessarily. At least with my BMW dealer, new bike customers who've purchased a "priority service agreement" are (supposedly) scheduled in the service queue ahead of those without an agreement. However, if the service department has already made an appointment for a non-agreement customer, I don't see how they could break the appointment for a priority customer.
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Lets_Play_Two

"If a business does everything it can to help the customer, they will remain a business for a long time. That's the bottom line."

 

That is very true as long as they get paid for what they do. Of course there will be a difference of opinion here on how much they should get paid, but we can be sure this motto does not work...."I sell everything below cost but I make up for it on volume!!" grin.gif

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I have a slight problem with that. I bought my bike used, from a private party, so that means I should take a back seat to those who are behind me in line because they bought their bike from that dealer? That to me is discrimination. I am paying the same rate the next guy is[/ib]....
Not necessarily. At least with my BMW dealer, new bike customers who've purchased a "priority service agreement" are

 

I didn't know such an agreement existed.

 

 

However, if the service department has already made an appointment for a non-agreement customer, I don't see how they could break the appointment for a priority customer.

 

That is where my complaint would be - if I had an appointment and got bumped. Now if it was an emergency where it was a rider that needed something to get him on his way, that is different.

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Amazing! I have bought new bikes from 6 different stores/600 mile svc. in 5 different stores all over the country with zero problems. Never had a bike serviced where I bought it.

 

Do you guys really worry about this? Do you really buy a brand you don't want because of this? Do you really pay an additional $15-1800 to build a relationship?

 

confused.gif

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++ on Marty's comments, and also--to the previous "lurker" who was having 2nd thoughts on buying because he read this thread: ask youself this question--->how many folks that posted here actually HAD a problem with a non-servicing dealer? Seems like everyone enjoys getting "up in arms" periodically about this issue and expressing outrage about some issue that never seems to occur in reality! dopeslap.gif

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I have followed this thread since day one and find some of the replies interesting.

 

I work in the camera industry. We fight the internet and NY discount dealers pricing ALL the time. We explain why we are higher, rent, salaries etc etc. If we can, and we can't always, we will try to meet them half way on the pricing. Some understand and buy others do not, BUT, I do NOT get angry. I understand that price is more important to some people. I tell them about our knowledge and selection of accessories and invite them back to shop with us in the future.

 

One customer even said that he would buy all of his accessories from me because I had been helpful in showing him a camera but I couldn't get close to the mailorder price he found.

 

The bottom line is, we make more money on accessories and repairs than camera sales alone, WOW, that sounds like a BMW dealership.

 

People with attitudes like the dealer in the OP should not be allowed to deal with the public. Who cares where you bought it as long as you buy profitable items from me.

 

We are all capitalist pigs and are here to make a profit. Good customer service will help insure that.

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Having a local shop is worth a different amount to different people. There are guys on this forum who could rebuild their boxer's engine in one afternoon on the side of a road using a toothpick. There are others (like myself), who can't do our own maintenance. For me, having the local shop is worth a lot because it's like my pit crew. If I end up spending more buying the motorcycle (which, in my experience is always less than around $2,000 difference) up front so that my local guy can prosper and be around when I need him, that's fine by me.

 

What's not fine with me is when you expect this sort of relationship with a local shop and get screwed anyway.

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Having a local shop is worth a different amount to different people. There are guys on this forum who could rebuild their boxer's engine in one afternoon on the side of a road using a toothpick. There are others (like myself), who can't do our own maintenance. For me, having the local shop is worth a lot because it's like my pit crew. If I end up spending more buying the motorcycle (which, in my experience is always less than around $2,000 difference) up front so that my local guy can prosper and be around when I need him, that's fine by me.

 

+1

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DavidEBSmith

Do you guys really worry about this? Do you really buy a brand you don't want because of this? Do you really pay an additional $15-1800 to build a relationship?

 

For somebody who does pay $1800 for a "relationship" with the dealer, does it work? Do you get better service, other than not being subjected to snide remarks about where you bought your bike? For $1800, I'd better be getting a pretty good "relationship". Should probably get flowers with that kind of "relationship".

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For somebody who does pay $1800 for a "relationship" with the dealer, does it work? Do you get better service, other than not being subjected to snide remarks about where you bought your bike? For $1800, I'd better be getting a pretty good "relationship". Should probably get flowers with that kind of "relationship".

 

I hear ya there. For that much extra $$$......I would expect them to call me weekly to see if and what parts they should drop off at my house for me. Then again.....my local dealership is one of the ones that sells bikes for well under MSRP, and gets many out of state riders buying bikes from them. They know I have no intention of buying a new bike in the next 2-3 years, and the sales manager still remembers my name and gives me a friendly greeting when I walk through the door. They will get my business one of these days.

 

Trans-Am Cycles if anyone is interested

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Lets_Play_Two
Do you guys really worry about this? Do you really buy a brand you don't want because of this? Do you really pay an additional $15-1800 to build a relationship?

 

 

For somebody who does pay $1800 for a "relationship" with the dealer, does it work? Do you get better service, other than not being subjected to snide remarks about where you bought your bike? For $1800, I'd better be getting a pretty good "relationship". Should probably get flowers with that kind of "relationship".

 

Is that $1800 gross or net? What I mean is that it is not without cost to travel to another state to pick up a motorcycle, both in time and money. As we all know some people have more time than money and vice versa.

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Is that $1800 gross or net? What I mean is that it is not without cost to travel to another state to pick up a motorcycle, both in time and money. As we all know some people have more time than money and vice versa.

 

Thats me wave.gif

 

Broke as a joke and plenty of time to think about it lmao.gif

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