[ofccat]

I used to take offense to this myself, but now I take it as a compliment. I do not know a lot of women who ride so I mostly ride with the hubby (csticus). The few I knew who rode I did not like riding with as they were not very safe and I was afraid they would get either themself or me killed. When someone tells me I ride well for a woman I now do not mind. Although I must say my greatest compliment was when the hubby, myself and a friend were on the blueridge. Our friends rides a FJR and I was an a 650ST at the time. I took the lead and when we stopped he stated "I thought we were taking it easy because of you, but now I realize I was slowing us down." He also noted how well I rode. Now that made me feel good

[upfisk]

I've been riding since I was about 20, or over 34 years ago. Took about 16 years off of riding as I didn't like Phoenix city traffic,etc. Now I'm back riding again. I do notice my reflexes aren't as good as when I quit riding at 34 and when I restarted at age 50. Like you, I get annoyed when told I ride good for a woman, duh, how about cause I have loads of experience. Now, I'm not nearly as aggressive in corners nor passing, but my reflexes aren't what they used to be. Is that being a woman or just acknowledgement of the aging process. And you know, I just don't care anymore if I'm not the fastest one out there.

[norah]

Ya know, men are strange and wonderful creatures. They bond differently than us women. I don't think that they mean anything offensive in their comments. They are just acknowledging in their own way that they think it's cool that you participating in a sport that is dominated by men. I usually just say thanks and smile and leave it at that.

[Marty Hill]

Nora,

 

Do you smile cuz you just passed them or does that come later?

[Hoover]

Agreed. I think it is just "most" men have an interest and "most" women do not.

 

My wife loves to ride, but has little interest in motorcycles. I maintain them, clean them, prep them for rides, she rides them (pretty good arrangement for her huh?). Becuase I ride so much more than she does, she chose a bike that both of us can ride, since she is too short for my S.

 

I ride 10K plus a year, so everyone I know see me on the bikes allot. When I have her bike out everyone asks me how the big 1400 handles and how I deal with it in city riding or in the mountains, but that is about it. When I tell them that it is her bike, they just can't believe me. What's more, I think she can handles the big cruiser better than I can. She took her MSF test on a cruiser doing some moves (like the figure 8 in a box) that I am not sure I would be capable of on the cruiser without a lot more practice.

 

When we ride with folks, I have seen her take mountain roads with ease that scared some newer riders (have about as many miles under them, or more than she does).

 

I think she is a very good rider, but because she is not a "biker chick" I don't think anyone takes her seriously when they find out she rides.

[Pilgrim]

Along the lines of a couple other comments, I have taught quite a number of women to shoot, both for pleasure and survival (Their own; not mine, lest there be any confusion). With only a couple of exceptions they have been apt students and turned out to be good shooters.

 

One thing: men seem to think that they ought to have been born knowing how to shoot (drive, scuba dive, etc) and to admit ignorance is to proclaim some genetic flaw.

 

Another thing (and this will likely draw some comment): Largely, it strikes me that women do not lack competence, they lack innate confidence. I'm not talking about the false confidence mentioned above, but confidence in themselves, in their capacity to do, to learn to do, something. I had a woman student once, whose job depended on learning to shoot adequately, actually tell me that women just weren't meant to be shooters. (Actually, it turned out she was.) That lack sometimes inhibits their initial performance just as surely as a man's overconfidence can. I found that teaching women to shoot demands an approach totally different from teaching men - it requires a great deal of verbal encouragement from step one, letting some things slide for the moment to avoid being critical, and sometimes even lying a little bit. Whereas with a man, you may wind up telling him all the stuff he's doing wrong just to bring him down to reality.

 

Now, I recognize that I just picked up the broad brush that Leslie brought from Home Depot. Of course there are exceptions on both sides. With women, the biggest exception is for those who have had the opportunity before to prove themselves to themselves. But that first step, I believe, can be a tough one for them, and some never have the courage to take it. I vastly admire those who do, and pity those who do not.

 

All that aside, why do we suppose it is that there are so few women on the automotive racing circuit, and next to none on the motorcycle circuit? I have no doubt there are women out there who could compete at those levels; where are they?

 

Pilgrim

[russell_bynum]

One thing: men seem to think that they ought to have been born knowing how to shoot (drive, scuba dive, etc) and to admit ignorance is to proclaim some genetic flaw.

 

Women understand the Zen concept of the "Beginner's Mind".

 

Now, I recognize that I just picked up the broad brush that Leslie brought from Home Depot. Of course there are exceptions on both sides. With women, the biggest exception is for those who have had the opportunity before to prove themselves to themselves. But that first step, I believe, can be a tough one for them, and some never have the courage to take it. I vastly admire those who do, and pity those who do not.

 

I totally agree.

 

 

 

All that aside, why do we suppose it is that there are so few women on the automotive racing circuit, and next to none on the motorcycle circuit? I have no doubt there are women out there who could compete at those levels; where are they?

 

I think it is that ego thing you mentioned. When I ride at the track with Lisa, I find that she generally goes through corners faster than I do, but I've got faster lap times. Why? I've got the throttle pinned on the straights, I'm sliding the thing in on the brakes, and I'll charge through transitions faster. IMO, that's all confidence. "I'm the baddest mofo out there." goes a long way towards improving your laptimes.

 

Of course...I've also fallen off twice and she hasn't.

[Lion_lady]

Thanks all for making a few things clearer. I recognize the learning ‘girl-style’ as opposed to guys. I’m not too tall myself, 5.5, and have compensated by taking classes and everything that was offered in them, just the ‘young’ part doesn’t apply here because I started becoming serious about learning to ride well not until my late thirties. Also I think you’re right when you talk about expectation. It’s a bit of a surprise for all of the reasons mentioned. I especially share Russell’s sense of humour there:

 

Just say "Thanks! You were going pretty fast back there when I passed you."

 

I’ll try that one out for sure if I get a chance! Mostly what I do now is just kind of nod and say something about the ease of riding a GS, anybody can do that, kind of thing. Put myself down a bit. Especially because when it comes to the really slow stuff I’m not as competent as I’d like to be (I do go to the parking lot!). From your responses I’m inclined to change that though, as I have worked hard to get to this point and I think I’ll try out taking the compliment as a recognition of my efforts.

 

Wading in late, here. . .

 

I've been riding for almost five years (started AFTER 40). And have heard the comment. One thing I believe contributes to women being "better" riders is that because we don't have the physical strength to MAKE the bike do what we want, we must learn to "ask" the bike to do what we want... learn the control needed. As a result, we 'mesh' better with the machine. It would follow, that we often become better riders.

 

P

[Misti]

I’ve heard it so often and always smile politely because it’s meant as a compliment, I’m quite sure of that. The tricky part is: Is it harder for women to learn to ride well? To build the necessary skills? Are we somehow less capable when it comes to operating heavy machinery? (Female drivers and all.)

 

First off let me say that I know there’s loads of women who can outride, outshine, outrank any male, but I’m just curious about on average, in general. Should we be judged in a different category, like in the Olympics? Once we master some level of roadcraft on a bike, has the way there been tougher for us than for most men?

 

I’m not asking for a battle or comparison of the sexes, I'd like to get a better handle on how to respond to the compliment though, by way of getting a bit more insight in just how rare a skill this is for women. Somewhat unusual yes, but much less so in the US I guess. Women ride their own bikes more (instead of pillioning) and often much heavier ones than women in W-Europe do.

 

Just curious what your take is on this.

 

To answer your questions I say NO, NO, and NO. It is not harder for women to learn to ride well, not harder for us to learn the skills and we are not less capable of handling the machinery. No, no way.

 

I say that as a rider, a coach and a racer. I've competed against the guys successfully racing, I've coached numerous women riders and one of the fastest and most capable I've ever seen is a 14 year old girl named Elena Myers.

 

On that note, I used to take offence to the comment "you ride well for a women" and I was all high and mightly like I had to prove something but what I really believe is that it is said as a compliment and the difference between male and female riders is similar to the difference in male and female doctors and lawyers, and that is, it has taken longer for it to be socially acceptable for women to participate in these sports, jobs, activities. Because of this lack of social acceptance, I believe less women in the past took up the sport of motorcycling, had less riding practice time, less support and fewer people to ride with and so, didn't appear to have the same skills as their male counterparts. Also, women tend to start riding later on in life then men, because of this previous held social acceptance, which makes it harder to learn and means that overall we have less ride/practice time on the machines.

 

If you look at the statistics lately which show a huge increase in women riders as well as women racers, you will notice that the gap between "perceived" rider ability is diminishing. Like I said, one of the fastest riders I have ever worked with is a 14 year old girl.

 

A few other things to point out. IMO women tend to be a little more intimidated in general about high risk sports, partly because of lack of previous involvment in them, and partly because of genetic make up. We have less testosterone which means less aggression, less "risk taking" notions and more of a protective, caregiving nature which can affect our abilities to say "risk our lives."

 

But things are changing and there is no reason at all, whatsoever why a women cannot ride as well as a man.

 

In fact, there are many things that benefit women riders and racers in our physical make up over guys. We are generally more flexible, lighter, smaller, can move around on the bike better......and I have to say that women do make better students as a whole. Women tend to listen a bit better, do exactly what told, more willingly and have less bad habits or preconceived notions about things....(grin)

 

I smile sweetly now when told that I ride well for a women then pass all the guys! (hahahah- jk) I'm less agro about the whole "proving my abilities" thing and more understanding of the way the past has affected social acceptance.

 

Ride on!

 

Misti

[ChrisM]

there’s loads of women who can outride, outshine, outrank any male

 

I'm sure there are any number of women who can outride most of the members of this forum, but not so many who can outride "any male." The reality is that men, as a group, seem to put more effort into the sport than do women. That proves nothing about any particular individual. I believe we tend to be surprised by highly capable women riders because:

 

(1) There simply aren't near as many women as men who ride.

 

(2) Men tend to suffer from testosterone poisoning (or so women have often told me), and extremely aggressive riding is often erroneously equated with skillful riding. (I constantly see young fellows on sport bikes willing to hit the straights at triple digit speeds but who cannot stay with my RT through the turns.)

[Little Joe]

""So, how well do most women ride?"

 

Well, most of them don't ride. I think the rarity answer is correct. In any activity that doesn't require pure strength, women have the innate resources to excel as much as they care to.

 

My daughter is a chemist and avid snow-boarder. At her wedding , the best man recounted, during his toast, the time the groom first told him about meeting Kelley: "You'll love her, man. She's just like a guy!" She took it as the the high praise it was meant to be.