Never, ever get used to having ABS.... UHG!!

[Lone_RT_rider]

I have been debating about posting this for almost a week now. I am very embarrassed this happened to me and therefore its really hard to talk about. But, if anyone can get anything from this that helps them from doing the same thing I did then I the small amount of egg on my face is worth it ten times over.

 

So...this is what happened.

 

I was riding Rainy's bike (non-ABS R1100R) last Friday when a car stopped short on a busy 5 lane road here in Greenville. I reacted exactly like I do with my ABS bikes and grabbed a handful of front brake. Front wheel locked and the bike started to go down and to the left. Instinctively (because there is no way in heck I would do this on purpose) my left leg popped out to stop the bike from rolling to the left. Well, it stopped it alright, but at 35 MPH it also jammed up my knee pretty bad. I am on crutches for now and taking my time healing. When the bike popped back up I managed to back off the brakes and re-apply them properly and get the bike stopped without hitting the car in front of me, so no accident. I rode the bike home and parked it.

 

Things I think I have learned from this event?

 

1. I had a lot more time than I thought I did to react. If I didn't, I would have never had time to re-apply the brakes and get stopped properly without hitting the car in front of me. I over-reacted because my attention wasn't on the road and the car in front of me. This happened as I was looking to the right and then panning back to the frontal view.

 

2. I need to start being a lot more gradual with my application of brakes and not rely on the ABS module to be there when I need it most. This effort has to be conscious every time I apply the brakes until it becomes instinctive.

 

3. Keep all hands and feet inside the vehicle until exiting the ride. If I would have done this, I may have gone down, I may not have. At least I would not be fighting this knee injury. Its better to slide on your arse than test the compression strength of bone material.

 

By the way, the knee is just sprained and my calf is sore like I hurt the muscle somehow. My ankle, thanks to some good Sidi boots is in great shape. I am sure I will catch some flames from someone for this event. As long as I learn from it (hopefully others may to) and move forward with my riding education, thats all I really care.

 

Stay safe out there....

 

Shawn

[HappyMan]

Good post. I hope you heal quickly! I have multiple bikes without ABS so sometimes I find myself with the opposite problem and check to see that my ABS still works. I could see where it would become easy to get used to. Screw the emberassment!! Others will learn from your mistake. Mighty big of you to share.

[StretchMark]

No flames. A good reminder for all of us...says the guy who slid his DRZ through an intersection just recently

[russell_bynum]

says the guy who slid his DRZ through an intersection just recently

 

Your DRZ came with brakes?

[russell_bynum]

Great post, Shawn. And VERY good advice.

 

In addition to potentially saving your butt when you ride non-ABS bikes, practicing good braking technique will result in a shorter stopping distance on your ABS-equipped bike as well.

 

A smooth application of brakes is critical. My rainy track day a few years ago taught me that. You can actually brake pretty damn hard in the rain, but you have to bring the brakes up to pressure smoothly. If you use that same technique on dry pavement, it works really well, too. If you just "grab a handful", you overwhelm the compression damping circuit of the front shock. The front end compresses and bottoms, and the wheel slides. If you bring it on smoothly, the compression damping has a chance to work, the weight transfers smoothly forward (giving you more traction), and you can apply much more braking force.

 

I generally practice taking a full second (one thousand one) to go from no brakes to whatever pressure I want. It's still pretty quick, but just not so abrupt.

 

Glad you're OK. And I'm glad you didn't mess up Rainy's bike since she surely would have had you breathing through a tube if you had.

 

 

[tallman]

Shawn,

Glad you're OK.

Heal fast, ride soon.

[Fugu]

I am sure I will catch some flames from someone for this event.

 

If you do, we'll back you up.

 

Anybody who's been riding for any amount of time can understand how this event could happen to any of us any time.

 

My ABS saved me from my own lack of attention just the other day. Rattled the hell out of me, but the much maligned EVO brakes stopped me WELL short of what I should have seen coming. Your point that we need to practice good braking technique is well taken, but I still like the margin for error ABS affords us.

[BrianT]

I was having this same thought last week. I had dropped off my bike for service and they gave me a loaner R1200R. As I was riding half way home through the rush hour stop and go traffic it donned on me that I didn't know whether or not the loaner had ABS or not and that I should've checked that before leaving. Most of my training was without ABS so normally in a panic situation where my brain's automatic pilot kicks in I usually revert back to my training anyways which is good compression braking avoiding the lock up. However you never know and I took this as a lesson learned that I should've checked before I left so I'd know for sure and brake apropriately.

[big-t]

says the guy who slid his DRZ through an intersection just recently

 

How fast do you have to be going,to slide thru an intersection on a DRZ ????

[flat_twin]

Hi Shawn, glad it wasn't worse. I'm not sure what you meant when you said you grabbed a handfull of front brake. It sounds like you grabbed all you could. I also wondered about Brians comment, not knowing whether the loaner bike he was riding had ABS or not. I think you would use the brakes the same way regardless of having ABS or not. As in, applying as much brake as possible without locking up the wheel.

It sounds like people are applying braking techniques related to ABS in cars to their motorcycles when they should be modulating the brakes themselves.

[AviP]

Depending on how old you are, that knee is going to be giving you some trouble for a while. I'm 39. Don't ask me how I know. My hip joint also knows a lot about emergency application to prevent a parking lot drop. It's 1-year now and I still feel the arthritis.

[BrianT]

I also wondered about Brians comment, not knowing whether the loaner bike he was riding had ABS or not. I think you would use the brakes the same way regardless of having ABS or not. As in, applying as much brake as possible without locking up the wheel.

 

You're right and I normally do try to avoid hitting the ABS at all. I try not to rely on it, I just like it as a secondary precaution in addition to my modulating the braking. But if I'm riding a bike without ABS that would be good to know so I'm not surprized by the bike behaving differently if a wheel should momentarily lock up due to something slick on the roadway. We should all be using good braking, ABS/linked brakes or not.

[Lone_RT_rider]

Depending on how old you are, that knee is going to be giving you some trouble for a while. I'm 39. Don't ask me how I know. My hip joint also knows a lot about emergency application to prevent a parking lot drop. It's 1-year now and I still feel the arthritis.

 

Yep, I have been there, done that and already have 2 bad knees to prove it. This has been the 4th time I have injured my knees (2 per knee, I feel so balanced now). Last time I did this I was in my late 20's and it took almost a year to heal. At the age of 41, I sure as heck don't expect it to take any less time.

 

I know the worse thing I can do is try to push the healing process along. Bad things usually start happening about the time you think you are fine and can do everything you used to do before the injury. It's a long road ahead... I am mentally ready for that.

 

Shawn

[Lone_RT_rider]

Hi Shawn, glad it wasn't worse. I'm not sure what you meant when you said you grabbed a handfull of front brake. It sounds like you grabbed all you could.

 

Yep, thats exactly what I did. I grabbed it so hard that I am suprised the brake lever isn't bent.

 

Shawn

[Lone_RT_rider]

.... And I'm glad you didn't mess up Rainy's bike since she surely would have had you breathing through a tube if you had.

 

Naw, if she had done that much damage she would have just finished the job. She knows where the life insurance money goes if I check out...

 

Shawn

[Limecreek]

Sorry to hear about the mishap, but believe me most of us have been there as we move along the learning curve; a curve that is forever moving up and away from us.

 

I'm concerned about keeping my non abs braking skills sharp. This may not be the best way to practice, but I use my abs RT and practice braking up through the abs threshold and then up to the threshold without cycling the abs. It's not ideal, but I believe it will help if and when I am confronted with an emergency stopping situation on a non abs scooter.

 

Five years ago, as a returning rider, I stuck my leg out as the rear tire broke free on a corner. It hurt enough that I haven't done it since. I wonder if there is an exercise we could develop to train our legs to stay on the pegs in the oh heck moments?

 

Heal up and thanks for posting about your experience.

[Ken H.]

Yep, thats exactly what I did. I grabbed it so hard that I am surprised the brake lever isn't bent.

Not flaming you specifically Shawn, but I think the 'grab a hand/foot full and hang on' is one of the greatest myths of ABS perpetuated on the driving/riding public. Be it on a bike or in a cage, ABS should be a backup system of last resort to correct braking technique. Not the primary braking system.

 

But in particular in the world of cages, the 'dumbed down for the masses' message for so long has been, "Just smash the pedal and hold it", that it's become accepted as a, 'best of class' practice.

 

Now we're seeing the same mindset/message start to creep into the supposed best way to brake an ABS equipped bike. Which is too bad. And it isn't true in either case.

[Lawman]

I traded my 05 Electra Glide for an 05 RT for no reason other than to get ABS..I locked a rear wheel on the EG in a sharp curve and somehow managed to keep it up even though it nearly threw me off after releasing the brake..It was then I decided to go back to the RT. I've never had an unintentional ABS event but the main thing I like about having it is that I now can brake as I think appropriate even on wet pavement without fear of locking a wheel..On a non ABS bike I find I will not brake sufficiently especially on wet pavement which I know sooner or later will get me..Glad you were not seriously hurt..As for me, I will not own another non ABS bike.

[Laura]

No flames here.....just hoping your knee and leg heal quickly.

[TN_R_Girl]

Shawn,

 

So sorry to hear of the mishap ... sending positive vibes your way for quick healing.

 

~Shannon

[Firefight911]

Yep, thats exactly what I did. I grabbed it so hard that I am surprised the brake lever isn't bent.

Not flaming you specifically Shawn, but I think the 'grab a hand/foot full and hang on' is one of the greatest myths of ABS perpetuated on the driving/riding public. Be it on a bike or in a cage, ABS should be a backup system of last resort to correct braking technique. Not the primary braking system.

 

But in particular in the world of cages, the 'dumbed down for the masses' message for so long has been, "Just smash the pedal and hold it", that it's become accepted as a, 'best of class' practice.

 

Now we're seeing the same mindset/message start to creep into the supposed best way to brake an ABS equipped bike. Which is too bad. And it isn't true in either case.

 

+1 to that!!

 

And to think, it wasn't that long ago that I got flamed for taking the stance that ABS is a crutch by many!

 

So glad your outcome was a positive and learning experience!

 

We all struggle with this. My GSA has no ABS and the ST does. It is interesting to go through the mental game of switching from one to the other.

[Foot]

AH so the moral of the story is don't drive your wife's bike!

 

Shawn good post, and good advice!

 

Alan

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

No flames. A good reminder for all of us...says the guy who slid his DRZ through an intersection just recently

 

Do tell...

[Pilgrim]

Instinctively (because there is no way in heck I would do this on purpose) my left leg popped out to stop the bike from rolling to the left.

Shawn

 

One more validation of the idea from Deep Survival that we have ingrained "bookmarks" of reaction that do not always serve us well. Gonna fall? Well, shoot, just extend a leg.

 

I don't even know how you'd practice to overcome that reaction.

 

Pilgrim

[StretchMark]

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

No flames. A good reminder for all of us...says the guy who slid his DRZ through an intersection just recently

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

Do tell...

 

Nothing too bad. I'll clarify, slid on 2 wheels upright through the intersection. Christine and I snuck out for a little ride which ended up taking quite a bit longer so we were coming back in the dark. I was looking in my mirror waiting for Christine to catch up. When I looked up, I noticed I was approaching a stop sign way too fast. I tried to stop quickly, but realized I was sliding (on my non-DOT knobbies ) and was not going to make this stop sign. I could see nobody was coming in either direction, so I backed off the brakes and brought it to a rolling stop....in the middle of the road. New bike, new boots, lack of focus and poor technique all contributed, but I got away with it this time. Definitely a wake up call.

 

 

Back to Shawn's story...

[David]

Yep, thats exactly what I did. I grabbed it so hard that I am surprised the brake lever isn't bent.

Not flaming you specifically Shawn, but I think the 'grab a hand/foot full and hang on' is one of the greatest myths of ABS perpetuated on the driving/riding public. Be it on a bike or in a cage, ABS should be a backup system of last resort to correct braking technique. Not the primary braking system.

 

But in particular in the world of cages, the 'dumbed down for the masses' message for so long has been, "Just smash the pedal and hold it", that it's become accepted as a, 'best of class' practice.

 

Now we're seeing the same mindset/message start to creep into the supposed best way to brake an ABS equipped bike. Which is too bad. And it isn't true in either case.

 

I'm with Ken on this, Shawn. And it's not from any sense of superiority on my part, because I'm in a learning mode with my fellow riders.

 

But nobody on this board has said more against the idea of "grabbing a handful" than me (or maybe Russell, the other ass around here). And finally I just quit because I got tired of the flack I got from others who didn't care enough about the issue to try and understand it.

 

"Grabbing a handful" of brakes on any motorcycle is a stupid, ignorant, dangerous, ill-conceived gut reaction that comes from poor technique and/or not paying attention and being surprised. (I know this because I've done it.)

 

And to suggest that ABS makes it safer to "grab a handful" is stupid, ignorant, dangerous, and ill-conceived.

 

There, I'm obviously back off my medication. I just get really upset in the face of consistent misinformation.

 

I'm glad you made it through okay--we've all made that mistake, and luckily most of the time we escape. Sounds like you came to your senses and had a great save.

[SageRider]

"Grabbing a handful" of brakes on any motorcycle is a stupid, ignorant, dangerous, ill-conceived gut reaction that comes from poor technique and/or not paying attention and being surprised.

Amen! (Also BTDT!)

[lawnchairboy]

hey shawn:

 

thank you for posting...

 

glad you are OK

 

chris

[Knifemaker]

Shawn...good post...emergency braking is pucker time with or without ABS...Non of my bikes are equiped with ABS so I can not relate to ABS bikes....Riding for 35 plus years without ABS has made me comfortable to conventional braking so when I purchased my 05 R1150R I chose regular over ABS because of fear of the "unknown".

 

Heal well

[Husker Red]

Shawn,

Glad to hear you're okay. Thanks for the reminder of the importance of proper braking.

Mike

[DavidEBSmith]

I am very embarrassed this happened to me and therefore its really hard to talk about.

 

Ummm, you probably don't know how close a whole bunch of people from this DB came to getting mowed down like bowling pins at whichever El Paseo it was that I brought the F650. When I had the bike wide open trying to catch up to the group, and I suddenly realized that the group had slowed to turn and I was closing on them at about 60, and I grabbed a handful and a footful of non-ABS brake and just started sliding along on the 7-year-old knobby tires . . . Fortunately, the only instinct that worked right was "stay on the rear brake and keep the bike straight" and I managed not to skid right through the group with tires smoking . . .

[David]

I am very embarrassed this happened to me and therefore its really hard to talk about.

 

Ummm, you probably don't know how close a whole bunch of people from this DB came to getting mowed down like bowling pins at whichever El Paseo it was that I brought the F650. When I had the bike wide open trying to catch up to the group, and I suddenly realized that the group had slowed to turn and I was closing on them at about 60, and I grabbed a handful and a footful of non-ABS brake and just started sliding along on the 7-year-old knobby tires . . . Fortunately, the only instinct that worked right was "stay on the rear brake and keep the bike straight" and I managed not to skid right through the group with tires smoking . . .

 

And here I thought you were just backing it in like some racer.

[Paul De]

As the saying goes. Stuff happens. Hope the knee comes around ASAP.

 

I am with David and Ken. In general grabbing a handfull of any of the variable rate controls (brakes, throttle or clutch)is usually disruptive to the desired effect of that control which creates a second lack of control issue to cope with.

 

That said, Pilgrims point of ingrained behavoirs is the challenge that practice and riding schools try to train out of you.

 

FWIW. When I was shopping for my RT, I wanted to see what the effect of the ABS would have, so I found an open parking lot and grabbed a hand and foot full of the binders to trigger the ABS. That was the last time I did it as well. Not that the ABS perforfmance did anything it wasn't supposed to, in fact it performed better than any of the ABS system I had perviously experieced. I continue to this day to apply the brakes in a controlled modulation If the ABS is triggered and there was no surprise goo in the road that was the cause, I assign this event to poor technique or judgement on my part. And set about retooling or refreshing my braking skills.

 

 

 

Like Pilgrim said it is tough to not do some of the things we have ingrained....like chopping in a turn that unexpectedly tighens up. Make intuitive sense but it is the wrong response. Only training and practice can straighten that out

[Officer_Impersonator]

The title of the post says it all - "Never get used to having ABS".

 

Riding a bike with ABS is much different than driving a car with ABS. When driving a car with ABS, you do want to stand on the pedal when in an emergency braking situation.

 

When riding a bike with ABS, always brake as if your bike doesn't have ABS. Let the ABS keep the wheel(s) from locking up should you exceed the adhesion limits of the tire and road surface, but that's all it will do.

 

It doesn't guarantee you'll remain upright.

 

It doesn't guarantee the cage won't hit you.

 

It also won't prevent a lateral slide caused by turning/swerving in a manner or in conditions that cause the bike/tire/road combination to exceed the limits of lateral adhesion imposed by the laws of physics. This isn't an issue in cages, but is huge on bikes.

[Davis]

When driving a car with ABS, you do want to stand on the pedal when in an emergency braking situation.

 

This is a false statement. Just like motorcycles, cars will stop quicker if you brake just to the point of not sliding. If you practice threshold braking in your cage, you will be able to stop in a shorter distance than if you simply "stand on it". If you practice good braking habits and keep ABS as a back-up for those unexpected changes in traction which can induce a slide you'll be a safer driver. Cages do have the advantage of being able to swerve with the ABS activated without worrying about falling over.

[E30TECH]

I was very disappointed in myself about 2 months ago when I did the same thing....put my left leg out to catch myself from falling. I didn't get hurt, but it could have been ugly.

 

Sorry to read that your situation wasn't as lucky as mine.

[Officer_Impersonator]

When driving a car with ABS, you do want to stand on the pedal when in an emergency braking situation.

 

This is a false statement. Just like motorcycles, cars will stop quicker if you brake just to the point of not sliding. If you practice threshold braking in your cage, you will be able to stop in a shorter distance than if you simply "stand on it". If you practice good braking habits and keep ABS as a back-up for those unexpected changes in traction which can induce a slide you'll be a safer driver. Cages do have the advantage of being able to swerve with the ABS activated without worrying about falling over.

 

Standing on the brakes on a car with ABS is exactly what you want to do. The ABS (Anti-Lock Brake System) prevents the tires from locking, just as the name implies.

 

The only times you want your tires to lock in a car or truck is if you're stopping in a straight line and you're on dirt, gravel or snow. A stopped tire creates a little wedge of dirt/sand or snow in front of the direction of tire travel and that little wedge acts like a wheel chock, providing additional stopping power.

 

On a motorcycle, ABS technically does the same thing, but because force is being applied in so many different directions, the absolute minimum straight line stopping distance (obtained by "grabbing a handful of brake", for example) might have negative unintended consequences for the rider's lateral stability.

 

So, on a bike, you need to get a feel for the particular bike's brakes and learn how to effectively modulate them yourself - without relying on servos or ABS brains to figure it out for you. ABS is a help in that if you're trying to modulate your stop using a "feel" for the brakes and you come across a grease puddle or some other slick spot on the road, you won't instantly lock your wheel when the loss of traction takes place.

 

ABS is a help in some braking situations, but it's not a panacea for all braking situations.

[jar_of_clay]

Shawn,

 

Please make sure that you do not have a tibial plateau fracture. The mechanism was perfect for that injury.

[Davis]

Standing on the brakes on a car with ABS is exactly what you want to do. The ABS (Anti-Lock Brake System) prevents the tires from locking, just as the name implies.

 

ABS on a car prevents skidding the same way as on a m/c, it releases and reapplies the pressure on the brakes. If you brake just to the point of lock up (or ABS engagement) without actually engaging the ABS, you don't have the cycling and will stop shorter than standing on the brakes and letting the ABS take over. I will give you that once ABS activates you should stay on the brakes and not try to modulate the pedal pressure or pump the brakes as was taught pre-ABS, but if you practice braking and brake just to the point of ABS engaging without actually cycling the ABS you will stop shorter.

[rdfrantz]

Shawn, I'm glad you came through that as well as you did. I'm proud of the lessons you've taken away from the event. It's the latter that makes "Any landing you walk a way from is a good one." So, good job.

 

I'd like to add two things for you to consider, friend. I hope they're of some use to you.

 

 

1. Use the current position in the lane that would allow you to lane split - pass between the cars. Whether on a two lane road or any multi-lane highway, the car ahead is crowding one or the other edges of the lane... or not. When no gap seems clear or likely, back off the following distance and maintain high alert.

 

If we position ourselves where "the gap" exists we've got two things going for us. First we have a probable place to slip into should we not be able to get slowed/stopped as quickly as we'd have liked to. This "takes some pressure off", and with experience, gets us out of "automatic panic mode" when sudden/surprising needs to brake arise. We know that even if we're a bit behind the awareness curve, we've probably got some grace about it, and that's what takes away our panic. It does take some experience, and that's wrapped in the second point.

 

Second, concerted, directed, decided lane placement is a way to: Positively assume and maintain control of the Riding Situation. Gauging where to be in that lane keeps our head in the game and makes it very unlikely we'll get hugely surprised. Where to place the bike is not just about the one car ahead, but rather about The Unfolding Situation - what's likely to get that car to stay or move laterally in the lane, and "longitudinally" (its own following distance) as well. Dong thins thing, Exerting Control, is what leads us away from Reaction to emerging events, and gets us into Responding to them. And, even up to Early Response ("Pro-activeness") because in our greater awareness we are predicting events and they are Emerging Events, not Events That Have Emerged: Emergencies. It's thus we turn to controlled responses - instead of Reacting with panic.

 

 

2. Do Braking Drills. Honestly, even after riding 1.3M miles, I find I very much must practice braking in order to have that skill at the top level those miles of experience leaves me understanding that I need.

 

At the very least, in the parking lot, from 30mph or so work up from "50% Stops", to Impending Lock-up. Do it front only, then rear only, then both brakes. It only takes a half hour. A silly, freaking half hour.

 

I'm wanting folks to do those stops with One, uniform, exactly held level/pedal pressure from beginning to end. Learn what pressure does what.

 

Learn the Feel. Learn the Feel at the hand or foot. Also learn the Feel of the tire(s) through the bars (front) and the seat of the pants (rear).

 

With no ABS, seek the shudder of partial, impending, lock-up. With ABS seek the vibration through the bars/seat or brake lever/pedal (and/or noise) of ABS Activation.

 

Then: Back off one graduation of pressure in order to finish the stop upright and in the shortest distance. Yes, shortest... even with an ABS system working. **

 

I do this with all the bikes I own about once a month. When I get on a new or different bike for the first time you'll see that only a few yards down the road, at about 30 mph, I grab that front brake in a strident, progressively increading pressure until I get that front tire partially sliding: And, I've got that Feel for Maximum. It may not be the true Max, and I many not have that feel down perfectly, but I've got something useful now, and I'll mind my following distances and remain highly situationally aware and ride cautiously until I have the chance to get a sound Feel for brake application on that bike.

 

 

As a Rider, I find there is no substitute in terms of Best Practices for Maintain Control. The actions of actually doing so, lead to the mind set that keeps our head in the game - which is our alertness and awareness. We'll think in accordance with what we're aware of, decide based upon what we are thinking, and act in accordance with what we decide. Thought controls action; Action controls thought.

 

How we actually do, how we implement Control, is thought Skill. Skills, like Braking, are built.

 

Then we've got the whole package.

 

 

Best wishes.

 

 

** With the latest ABS systems on some Honda bikes, like the VFR, ZERO ABS feedback is available, and I am totally unable to detect any tire slide on dry pavement until the very end of the stop. Hence, on these bikes, "Full Max Grab" is just fine as the "feel" for maximum braking.

[Ken H.]

I grabbed a handful and a footful of non-ABS brake and just started sliding along on the 7-year-old knobby tires . . .

Just as long as you realize, and EB I suspect that you do, that you could have stopped shorter had you not locked it up and "skid(ed) right through the group with tires smoking . . ."

[Ken H.]

Standing on the brakes on a car with ABS is exactly what you want to do.

Not true. Once the ABS engages your total braking force over time diminishes than had you correctly kept the wheels at the 10% sliding ratio that produces max. braking traction.

 

The problem is very few cage drivers know how to find and keep that sliding ratio, therefore they brake at a rate significantly less than optimum. For those drivers 'smash the pedal and hold' will produce better results. But not better than correct braking technique. Thus the 'dumbing down of educating drivers on how to brake.

[GoGo Gadget]

Standing on the brakes on a car with ABS is exactly what you want to do. The ABS (Anti-Lock Brake System) prevents the tires from locking, just as the name implies.

 

I will give you that once ABS activates you should stay on the brakes and not try to modulate the pedal pressure or pump the brakes as was taught pre-ABS,

 

 

You are both wrong.

 

If the ABS system is activated on the car, then you want to release enough pressure on the brakes to deactivate the ABS, thus maintaining maximum threshold braking. One tip for that, is to wiggle your toes. That relieves enough pressure on the brake pedal to achieve that goal. Now the average idiot, I mean cager, is not capable of that. So they are taught to stand on the brake and hold it. Just as folks are taught that once you lock up the rear brake on a motorcycle, to stay on it. That reduces the likelyhood of a highside, but increases stopping distance. If the bike is straight, then you can release the rear brake, reapply it and stop quicker.

[itchybro]

Shawn, go back and find my post about the kid that chucked the chrome cleaner at me. It's a tale of ABS induced high side. (The ABS had faulted thus was not working but, it had sucessfully "conditioned" me to brake like it was)

 

To contradict someone, whom I'm sure made the remark in jest, I think you should, with her permission, ride Rainey's bike MORE. And, if you'll promise to clean it for her, do it in the rain.

 

I spent some quality time yesterday going to Deals gap (twice-once in the morning then home to dry then, later in the afternoon) and winding up on very wet roads. To say that the crazy ZTL brake on the Buell stops well is an understatement.

 

The afternoon trip was very interesting as only about 5 miles of the "dragon" section was wet (some soaked then spotty from drying and trees keeping it dry) It was a pretty good experience as far as continuing to get to know this bike. (I'm REALLY diggin it!)

 

As always, Mr. Frantz is dead on. Good reminders there!

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Instinctively (because there is no way in heck I would do this on purpose) my left leg popped out to stop the bike from rolling to the left.

Shawn

 

One more validation of the idea from Deep Survival that we have ingrained "bookmarks" of reaction that do not always serve us well. Gonna fall? Well, shoot, just extend a leg.

 

Worked for me. '04, descending Pikes Peak at about 10-15MPH, hit a stretch of soft dirt and the front wheel suddenly washed out. I stomped my left leg out HARD and was able to keep the bike from going down.

 

And I think perhaps it worked well for Shawn; afterall, he kept the bike up, and if he had fallen, I think his injuries might have been worse than a tweaked knee.

 

That said, I've heard of far worse results at higher speeds. Someone posted a report here a few years ago about a dumptruck that had laid down a thick layer of dirt on pavement; a group of riders came over the rise at high speed and ended up washing out in the dirt, with one of them badly breaking his leg when he dabbed in an instinctive attempt to keep the bike upright.

 

Only practice I can think of is to don heavily armored riding gear, and repeatedly lowsiding a POS bike on a track or in a parking lot until you become comfortable with NOT sticking a leg out.

 

Short of that, best bet I think is to adopt and practice riding/braking habits that tend keep you out of situations (like wheel lockup) that require a leg-out to keep the bike vertical.

[LuckyLeif]

Something that continually surprises me in teaching ERCs is the variability that people have in braking skills. For something as fundamental as a quick stop, I am amazed at how some students have survived to safely make it to class - guess that they've never been in the position to scrub off speed rapidly. Almost invariably these are the same riders who give the "I'll just lay her down if I really need to stop".

[TN_R_Girl]

Almost invariably these are the same riders who give the "I'll just lay her down if I really need to stop".

 

[Lone_RT_rider]

Shawn,

 

Please make sure that you do not have a tibial plateau fracture. The mechanism was perfect for that injury.

 

The Doc nailed it. After much prompting from people that are close to me, I took the time to go see a doctor. They did X-rays and sure as shootin, I have a fracture. A visit with an orthopedic surgeon is forthcoming. My summer riding season just got really, really short. Anyone want to help me put my RT back together when the trans comes back from Bruno?

 

 

Shawn

[Chris K]

Shawn,

 

Please make sure that you do not have a tibial plateau fracture. The mechanism was perfect for that injury.

 

The Doc nailed it. After much prompting from people that are close to me, I took the time to go see a doctor. They did X-rays and sure as shootin, I have a fracture. A visit with an orthopedic surgeon is forthcoming. My summer riding season just got really, really short. Anyone want to help me put my RT back together when the trans comes back from Bruno?

 

 

Shawn

 

Give me a hollar when it comes back from Bruno. Will work for beer!

[tallman]

Ouch.

I hope you get past this quickly and heal completely.

You don't want me putting it back together, it might end up an Airhead.