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Houston, we have a problem


jsmith

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I just returned from a great, 8-day trip from Toronto down through the Blue Ridge Parkway, Deals Gap and the Cherohala, only to make the mistake of washing my bike. Thats when you find stuff. First off, it appears that I took a stone to the oil cooler. Do I need to replace the oil cooler or is this ok? It doesn't look to be leaking, but I would rather it didn't start, either.

 

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Next I decide to give the bike a good looking over. Strike two. It appears that I am (or was) leaking oil. To me it looks like it should be coming from the drain plug, but it feels dry around the crush washer. I occasionaly overfill the gas tank, but I don't think this is gas or that it could have gotten there. Any ideas on what this could be and if it is serious?

 

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Just to really make my day, I decide to check out the brake pads. I only have 25,000km on the bike, but hey, you never know. Here is what I found. Now is it just me or does it look like one side is wearing about twice as fast as the other? Is this normal? This is the front right caliper.

 

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I always knew that no good could come from washing my bike. crazy.gif

 

Jim

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Nothing there looks all that abnormal to me Jim. If the oil cooler isn't leaking then no need to replace it. The little bit of oil seepage wouldn't stress me much but you might want to try to figure out where it is coming from if you can. And the brake pads look OK... it would be nice if they would wear evenly but they don't always.

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For the oil leak you might check the threads on here about leaking gear box seals. There are some pictures of what to look for. If you look just aft of the exhaust cross over pipe you can see the gearbox. If its oily your problem could be a leaking gear box.

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What Smiller said. If you're worried about the cooler, get the dealer to pressure check it but I expect there is no problem with it functionally. On the oil, wash it off and check it again after long rides to see where it is coming from. I personally use a power washer and just stay away from bearing and seal areas; always have and never had a problem. I think your ok, go have a beer.

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Firefight911

1. The oil cooler is fine.

 

2. Notice how the rear is more wet than the front? This is not coming from the oil filter or the oil plug. I would take a look at the clutch slave and rear seal from the output shaft causing this. This is not something to blow off!!!!! Unless you want your clutch to go out soon. dopeslap.gif

 

3. Not a big deal for one pad to wear more than the other. It appears to be quite uniform front to rear.

 

4. Washing bikes does exactly what you have found. It finds problems before they actually become problems! Please they sure do look purdy when you're done!!

 

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duckbubbles

Keep an eye on the oil cooler for a while, if it's not leaking there isn't a real reason to replace it unless you just can't stand it.

The oil leak seems to me to be coming from further back of the drain plug area. It could be coming from between the engine and transmission. you need to figure out if it is engine or transmission oil.

My experience with brake pads is that they never seem to wear evenly between the two sides of the caliper.

 

Frank

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The bottom of my ST looks just like yours. I haven't had the time to explore the leaks origin yet, but I noticed this past weekend for the first time when I gave my bike a quick wash. wave.gif

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Looking again and noting that the oil is coming from the rear of the engine I'd agree that you should try to tell where it's coming from, or at least detect the rate of seepage. Clean it off and see how long it takes to come back. If it takes a long time then the seepage is probably to slow to hurt anything but if it comes back quickly you are going to need to figure out if it could possibly contaminate your clutch. Also note if your clutch fluid level appears to be going down, although that looks more like oil than brake fluid.

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Thanks for all the quick replies! I took a look at the gear box seal threads, but either mine is a lot worse, or I'm looking in the wrong place. confused.gif Here is the best I could do for pictures. Does this look like the seal?

 

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Jim

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Firefight911

The seal that we are referring to is not in visible sight. It will be on the inside of the bell housing where the output shaft of the engine, pressure plate, friction plate, and input shaft to the transmission reside.

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It can be really tough to pinpoint oil leaks. Clean everything up well with a solvent so that the area is completely dry (no trace of oil), then monitor it carefully. If there is a leak of any significance you should be able to get an idea of where it is coming from as the oil slick returns.

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paulcbrowne

Except that those guards often cut down the cooling air flow by a lot. Had then on my LT and took then off when water temps started running higher than previously without the guards.

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Except that those guards often cut down the cooling air flow by a lot. Had then on my LT and took then off when water temps started running higher than previously without the guards.

 

I added an oil cooler screen made of perforated stainless steel(with 41% airflow). Even with temps. in the mid 90's, oil temp gauge has yet to go above the half-way mark. The perforated stainless steel is also easier to clean the the expanded aluminum used on both the Touratech and Wunderlich screens.

 

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Looks like the classic tranny leak to me (just like mine). I just had my seals and entire clutch replaced on my 05 RT in April at 20K miles. I would take the bike in to be inspected and repaired.

KB

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Looks like the classic tranny leak to me (just like mine). I just had my seals and entire clutch replaced on my 05 RT in April at 20K miles. I would take the bike in to be inspected and repaired.

KB

 

I'm pretty certain it isn't an oil leak (from my cursory look on Sunday). I planned to take my to the dealer have them fix it, then do my 6K service. I'm taking a closer look at this weekend and will post pics of what I see.

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Jim VonBaden

No sweat on the oil cooler. It looks fine.

 

As to the leak, from the other post:

 

It looks like I might have this leak as well, but I'm not sure I fully understand the problem. If this is a seal problem, that would tell me that gearbox oil is leaking out of the transmission, hence the oil under the bike. How does this lead to clutch plate contamination and problems with the pressure plate?

 

Jim

 

If the front seal is leaking it simply follows the input shaft forward to the clutch, or runs down the bellhousing and never touches the clutch. It normally will drip straight down, but it can also get on the disc.

 

If it is the rear seal, my understanding is that it contaminates the clutch slave cylinder causing it to begin leaking, and that get's the clutch.

 

Mine, and my GF's had to have both seals replaced, and the clutch slave cylinder. Mine also needed a clutch disc.

 

Check out this site: http://www.r1200gs.info/misc/oil-leak.html

 

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Jim cool.gif

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Dude, that looks alright to me. If the brake pads are worrying you, change 'em. It's about a 15 minute operation, max, and that includes cleaning the calipers.

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Thanks for all the help. I'm booked in next week to have the leak looked at and I have given them a heads-up that it might be the gearbox seal, so they have reserved a full day for the service. I'll let you know what the final diagnosis is.

 

Jim, those are some pretty graphic pics of a bike torn apart. Can't bear to think of mine in so many pieces...oh well, guess it has to be done. frown.gif

 

Jim

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No sweat on the oil cooler. It looks fine.

 

As to the leak, from the other post:

 

It looks like I might have this leak as well, but I'm not sure I fully understand the problem. If this is a seal problem, that would tell me that gearbox oil is leaking out of the transmission, hence the oil under the bike. How does this lead to clutch plate contamination and problems with the pressure plate?

 

Jim

 

If the front seal is leaking it simply follows the input shaft forward to the clutch, or runs down the bellhousing and never touches the clutch. It normally will drip straight down, but it can also get on the disc.

 

If it is the rear seal, my understanding is that it contaminates the clutch slave cylinder causing it to begin leaking, and that get's the clutch.

 

Mine, and my GF's had to have both seals replaced, and the clutch slave cylinder. Mine also needed a clutch disc.

 

Check out this site: http://www.r1200gs.info/misc/oil-leak.html

 

24K-7.jpg

 

24K-6.jpg

 

Jim cool.gif

 

Looks like an I.E.D. to me... eek.gif

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Firefight911
Looks like an I.E.D. to me... eek.gif

 

Some might argue that point with you!! There are those out there that feel that there is nothing improvised about it! lmao.giflmao.giflmao.giflmao.giflmao.gif

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Just received this in my inbox this morning, and not sure what to make of it. I thought I had read that the new seals solved the problem. Does anyone know if this is a larger, seal design problem or just a bad batch of seals? confused.gif

 

Jim

 

I stumbled over your comments regarding the oil leak on your bike. I

have now come accross numerous BMW R1200GS owners who encountered the

same problem on their bikes.

 

I have also had the same experience - engine oil leak into the housing

thereby contaminating the clutch. This has now happened to me twice.

 

The source of the problem was found at two places - the clutch input

shaft seal and the balancer shaft seal. I had both of these seals

replaced 2 months outside of the 2 year warranty period - goodwill

claims warranty approved - 2005 R1200GS. Two months later I detected

the same oil leak on the righthand side of the housing as well as at the

bottom of the engine leaking onto the exhaust.

 

After investigation (splitting the engine again) the balancer shaft oil

seal was found to be still leaking. I called in the advice of an expert

who investigated the seal as it was being removed from its seating.

Faulty workmanship was eliminated. The seal seemed to be intact - but

it leaked. Looking at the seal, one can understand that it will leak -

it is hard, does not allow for any movement and awkward in design - does

not look like a regular seal one would like to use there. I was

actually advised by a mechanical expert to replace it with an

aftermarket seal!

 

Upon enquiry the dealer indicated that the seal is on a 2 week

backorder from Germany - surplus spares of the seal were not available

anywhere in South Africa. Dipstick investigation with two local dealers

in Cape Town indicated that the seal apparently is causing problems.

The dilemma with this is the fact that many owners probably are not

sufficiently informed or aware of this problem and needs to pay for

something which appears to be caused by a latent defect - weakly

designed seals.

 

I am not a member of the forum on which I found your note - you are

welcome to use this info if you feel that you want to share it with

others.

 

Regards

 

JP du Toit

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  • 2 months later...

Just a quick comment on the brake question. I have not seen this on a BMW but I had a problem on my truck at one point. Make sure that the metal baking plate that the brake material is bonded to does not restrict the hydraulic cylinder compression. Mine had some residual flashing so all of my braking was one side only and I had to end up replacing the disk. The fix, if it is binding, is to gently file the metal plate so it does not bind.

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So a $20 seal will cost you $900+ to fix. confused.gif Glad I bought an extended warranty.

 

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No Part Number Description Qty Each

01 23007683433 6-speed manual transmission NA 1

02 23127656019 shaft seal, drive shaft (17X28X7) BUY 1 $10.00

03 23127683995 shaft seal (25X40X7) BUY 1 $11.00

04 23007680581 potentiometer - Up to 09/2005 BUY 1 $119.00

04 23007698580 potentiometer - 09/2005 and above BUY 1 $123.00

05 23007681469 asa-bolt (M6X25) NA 2

06 23007683375 screw plug NA 1

07 23002330249 breather BUY 1 $10.00

07 23007693739 breather BUY 1 $8.20

08 23127667733 shaft seal (20X32) BUY 1 $19.98

09 11147671363 cover, clutch BUY 1 $16.00

10 07129903806 isa screw (M6X20-8.8-ZNS3) BUY 2 $0.50

11 23122332884 shaft seal (10X18X6) BUY 1 $10.00

12 23117678502 screw plug with gasket ring (M18X1,5) BUY 1 $7.00

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