what do these fotos tell you???

[ThePlayer]

these are the fotos of 2 rods. what do they tell you, if they tell you anything...

all answers are welcome

[ThePlayer]

i couldnt put both fotos on the previous post so here is foto 2...

[Don_Eilenberger]

I think we need a bit of a clue. There is a bit of scuffing of the big-end bearings, but it doesn't look excessive. There is a bit of oil crud buildup on the wristpin bearing - but again - nothing exceptional.

 

Need a clue as to what you're looking for..

[Don_Eilenberger]

Looked at them again... and there is a vague possibility of oil-pressure failure showing - but if it did - without measuring the bearings - be hard to say if there is any real damage.

 

Really need a clue as to why the engine is apart.. and what you're hoping to find (or hoping not to..)

[s3steve]

This was the bike that had the oil warning light come on and now needs a rebuild.

 

Look a little burned on the small end and looks a little scuffed on the big end.

[ThePlayer]

NO MY FRIEND, this bike didnt have any warning lights when the damage happened.

the story goes like this: R1200GS bought brand new in the country of Cyprus from the one and only BMW dealer. registered 6th of may 05 and the damage was done 1st of may 07... COINCIDENCE???

i did the 20k service while the odometer was reading 20,800 KILOMETERS NOT MILES back in december of 06.

at 24,052 kilometers the damage was done. the bike was sitting overnight for more than 12 hours of sleep and when i tried to start it i heard something that sounded like a small explotion and of cource the bike didnt start. took it to the dealer and the service advisor said that the damage was done due to low oil level in the engine...

BUT, the mechanic measured APPROXIMATELY 2.5 LITERS of oil in the engine and this is a fact. i took some fotos of the rods and post them in the forum to crosscheck if this kind of damage can happen with 2.5 liters of oil being present in engine...

one of the valves was probably stuck open overnight and in the morning when i tried to start the bike, the piston hit the valve and the rest is history.

i wrote a letter to the BMW headquarters in Germany since i believe the dealer here in my country is avoiding any responsibilities and claims that the damage was done to low oil level and refuses to cover the damage although the bike was still under the 2 year warranty...

if anyone is interested to read the letter i posted in a greek BMW forum here it is

 

http://www.bmwmoto.gr/forum/showthread.php?t=1764

of cource the letter is written in English.

Now, since some ppl mentioned the oil brand that i use, i have to say that the oil brand that the mechanic uses is the American brand PJ 1 20-50...

this is the brand that the dealer is using ON EVERY bike here in Cyprus...

A friend of mine went to the annual BMW bike meeting in Germany at Garmisch-Partenkirchen. At this event there was a stand of BMW-Motorrad. Over there was a BMW mechanic that was shouting for free service and many other things he could do on ppls bikes. He was also shouting that the boxer engine could run for 50-100 kilometers, or for an hour without any oil in the engine.

my friend started laughing when he heard that the engine would run for 50-100 km or one hour...

Well, who is lying right now? What really happened to my bike? Was the amound of oil in my engine enough or not? is it possible for the engine to consume approx. 1.5 liters of oil over a period of 4.5 months or 3,200 km??? what went wrong? why the damage happened only on the right cylinder and it didnt happen on both?

i talked to many ppl and many mechanics around the world about this damage and nobody told me that the damage was done due to low oil level... some mechanic told me that the engine would still run even with 1 liter of oil...

BUT THE DEALER INSISTS...

All the indications inside the right cylinder show that the engine was overheated thats why we have change of colours in the different metals.

some of you are talking about some parts of the engine that dont make any sense to me since i dont know the terms in English but only in Greek. Although i studied in the US i dint learn any motorcycle engineering terms therefore i cannt help you on this. i only know the piston, rod, valves, crangshaft and thats about it.

thats all folks 4 know

[Ken H.]

Oh yes, I remember this story now... The bearing damage does indeed look like oil starvation to me, but if as you maintain the oil light never came on, it is hard to explain oil starvation without something else being wrong.

 

Still, if they only found 2.5 l of oil in the engine, that is certainly below normal. Can't speak to Greece's warranty laws, but in the USA to void a warranty they have to prove the damage was a direct result of the action of someone. Being 1.5 l low on oil would probably qualify.

 

Bottom line, you may indeed have to pay for this. Sorry.

[Jim VonBaden]

Oh yes, I remember this story now... The bearing damage does indeed look like oil starvation to me, but if as you maintain the oil light never came on, it is hard to explain oil starvation without something else being wrong.

 

Still, if they only found 2.5 l of oil in the engine, that is certainly below normal. Can't speak to Greece's warranty laws, but in the USA to void a warranty they have to prove the damage was a direct result of the action of someone. Being 1.5 l low on oil would probably qualify.

 

Bottom line, you may indeed have to pay for this. Sorry.

 

I agree it would qualify as the reason for the damage.

 

But I really think something else has to have happened to cause this with 2.5l of oil still in the engine. Maybe very hard riding, hot temps, a running tip-over, something to starve out the engine.

 

Jim

[s3steve]

theplayer wrote

is it possible for the engine to consume approx. 1.5 liters of oil over a period of 4.5 months or 3,200 km???

 

The short answer is YES!!

 

These engines can use 1 Liter in 1000 miles!

 

 

BMW considers that normal.

 

If your bike has the "Board Computer" did you not get this warning <!> on the LED display.

[JayW]

You made a mistake. The fact that you let the engine oil get 1.5 quarts low does not speak well of your attention to maintenance and service. You should have gotten a low oil level warning like this, <!>, which you apparently ignored AND/OR you failed to look at the sight glass occasionally to ensure that the level is OK.

 

One could still argue that being this low on oil should not ruin the engine, but your credibility and case has been damaged by failing to keep the oil visible in the sight glass. If I were in your shoes, I'd offer to split the cost of repair with BMW, and be more attentive to the oil level on the new/rebuilt engine.

 

Jay

[ThePlayer]

well, here Iam again

I drive the bike 2 years now and since there is almost no rain in Cyprus, i drive the bike on a daily basis. the only warning light i got so far is the fuel level AND THATS ALL. I'd be very stupid to notice a red warning light like this <!> and ignore it...

I think its impossible NOT TO see a red warning light, the moment there is also a clock and i check the time very oftem each time i drive the bike.

What about the oil pump? May be there was a malfunction there, may be it didnt pump enough oil into the cylinders. of cource the dealer checked the oil pump and found it ok, BUT, the right moment to check if the oil pump is ok, is to check it when the engine is running, RIGHT??? how can someone check the oil pump otherwice or when the engine is broken down into pieces???

Anyhow, several ppl including mechanics, told me that its almost impossiple for the engine to have a damage like this with 2.5 liters present.

I will take some more fotos of the parts and post them a.s.a.p

[JayW]

The symbol I am referring to is not a light and it is not red. It is just a grey icon that appears on the LCD display. Not every Hexhead has this low oil level warning system though, and maybe yours does not have this option. However they ALL have sight glasses that should be checked regularly.

 

Jay

[knukhd]

The piston pin bushing is out of round. If this is fron a rebuild, they did not use a reamer to resize the new bushing, a reamer will make sure the hole is round. If this is not a rebuild, the bushing is still out of round.

[Don_Eilenberger]

Lam,

 

What exactly are you trying to accomplish by posting these photos?

 

The people on this forum may or may not agree with your feeling of being screwed over by BMW - but even it they DO agree, aside from offering you sympathy, they can do nothing at all about it.

 

Some people feel you were careless in allowing your oil to get that low (and I'd tend to agree actually) - but as you point out - it seems questionable if with 2.5L of oil in the engine that oil starvation from low oil level caused the problems you experienced.

 

As far as the oil pump - well - testing it in a running engine is obviously the best way - but when it's out and disassembled, a mechanic can look for, and measure wear on the pump components and with that knowledge determine if it should have worked or not.

 

Again - what are you trying to accomplish with your postings?

[maxfrankel]

I fully understand and appreciate what is the intent of our Cypriot rider. If enough BMW owners find fault with the manufacturer's dismissive response to a warranty claim, perhaps the factory will give our friend the benefit of the doubt and do the repairs under warranty. The fact that the oil level was 1.5 quarts low is most likely irrelevant, as others have noted. BMW should step up to the plate on this one!

[grayghost]

I fully understand and appreciate what is the intent of our Cypriot rider. If enough BMW owners find fault with the manufacturer's dismissive response to a warranty claim, perhaps the factory will give our friend the benefit of the doubt and do the repairs under warranty. The fact that the oil level was 1.5 quarts low is most likely irrelevant, as others have noted. BMW should step up to the plate on this one!

 

From my own experience with BMW, I would not expect them to "step up to the plate". Their response seems to be "Vee haf no prroblems vith the motorcycles."

(re:surging problems with oilheads)

I had a K1200LT that the final drive went at about 23k miles. It was 4 months out of warranty, there is NO WAY a final drive should go out at that kind of mileage, but with letters and phone calls BMW never stepped up to the plate. So I would certainly not expect them to do step up to the plate at this time.

 

My other question is, "If the piston hit the valve, what does the piston look like?"

 

If indeed the piston hit the valve there would certainly be damage to the piston which I don't see how it could be blamed on a low oil level.

[ThePlayer]

This is the foto of the piston folks, the point where i circled is the exact point that the valve was hit, barely any damage, only change of coulor and thats all, the pistons are ok and need no replacement.

For the friend Don_Eilenberger, all i have to say is that by posting these fotos iam trying to hear ppls opinions about this damage, what is your point anyways by asking me this??? this is called a foroum right??? so what is the problem if iam asking other ppls opinions??? Or do i have to ask your permission to post something???

My sources tell me that YES, the oil level was low BUT, a damage like this SHOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED...

From what iam reading in this foroum is that some ppl have more knowledge about boxer engines than mechanics themselves...

I am not looking for sympathy my friend just the exact reason on what caused this damage which seems that low oil level is not enough reason for a damage like this to happen...

[Don_Eilenberger]

For the friend Don_Eilenberger, all i have to say is that by posting these fotos iam trying to hear ppls opinions about this damage, what is your point anyways by asking me this??? this is called a foroum right??? so what is the problem if iam asking other ppls opinions??? Or do i have to ask your permission to post something???

I asked you what the reason for posting is since it is not at all clear to me what you expect the forum members to reply with.

My sources tell me that YES, the oil level was low BUT, a damage like this SHOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED...

From what iam reading in this foroum is that some ppl have more knowledge about boxer engines than mechanics themselves...

True - and those people are usually not going to be able to tell you what caused the failure without first-hand examination of the parts and the entire engine. You've shown photos of the connecting rods.. what are the connecting rod bearing clearance dimensions? What are the wristpin bearing measurements?

 

Photos are nice - but useless - unless they show catastrophic failure - for diagnosis without some data (such as measurements.)

I am not looking for sympathy my friend just the exact reason on what caused this damage which seems that low oil level is not enough reason for a damage like this to happen...

And no one here can tell you the EXACT reason for the damage - we don't have the engine, we haven't taken it apart. You've provided very little information on engine clearance measurements. Any opinions you get here on the cause of the damage are that - opinions. Not exact reasons.

 

It would have been much simpler to reply to you - if - in the first posting - the one with the connecting rod, you explained what the situation was that caused you to post it.. not just throw it out there and hope for "exact reasons".

 

Good luck.