Why do you sales guys lie on the phone?

[kingpinofdisks]

I just got back from Newbury Park BMW, here in crappy SoCal. I had called the sales guy and asked if they had loaner bikes, and if they would write one into the deal if I get a bike there. Yep and yep.

 

Of COURSE I got there, test rode the bike, and said I wanted it. Then they said they can't put the loaner in writing in the deal.

 

They made me waste 3 hrs in Friday traffic because on the phone, the guy says anything to get you in the dealership, then in person they say the opposite.

[bmwk100]

Unacceptable! Share that tale with all your friends in So. Cal and you won't believe how much you will hurt that dealership. Did you talk to a manager or the guy who told you that on the phone?

[Bud]

Hmmm, conversation with owner is first. Then conversation with BMW, and the BBB as well.

 

But then again, I'm grumpy.

 

YMMV

[iBMUR]

Unacceptable! Share that tale with all your friends in So. Cal and you won't believe how much you will hurt that dealership. Did you talk to a manager or the guy who told you that on the phone?

 

Or you could just contact BMW directly and get a response similar to the one I received regarding their sales tactics:

 

Thank you for contacting BMW Motorrad USA regarding your interest in purchasing a R 1200 RT. On behalf of BMW, we apologize for any problems you experienced with your authorized Retailer. We sincerely appreciate your bringing this matter to our attention.

 

Our authorized BMW Retailers are independently owned and operated and solely responsible for their representations, and sales and service policies and procedures. Because each center determines the details of their own sales transactions, including selling price, it is always best to discuss your concerns directly with the retailer management.

 

If you have any further questions, please respond to this e-mail or contact the Customer Relations and Services Department at 1-800-831-1117. Our office hours are Monday through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time.

 

Regards,

BMW Motorrad USA

 

As you can see, the above response was VERY sincere and does not contain any legal jargon.

[leikam]

Isn't the first time, won't be the last. I'm wondering how getting a loaner clause in a purchase contract today is worth 3 hours of your life?

[Marty Hill]

If he said yes, he is a jerk. On the other hand, where in the world did you get the idea that any dealer of any brand would write that into a contract? You didn't waste 3 hours-you found a bike that you wanted. Go buy it and enjoy.

[Dave McReynolds]

For whatever reason, they must feel like the wrath of God will come down on their heads if they loan out a bike. When I bought the bike before this one, everything was all set to go, all the paperwork was ready, and I reached into my wallet for the blank check I always carry, only to find that I had already used it on something else. I said, "no problem, I'll just hop on my old bike and ride home and get another check" (about 5 miles). The dealer got kind of a constipated look on his face and said he would drive me home and back instead. I know he wasn't thinking I was going to run out on the sale; we had dealt on other bikes in the past and he basically knew me. It was something about using a bike I had just signed over to him, even though I had ridden it without a scratch for more than three years.

 

Still no excuse for saying they would and then not doing it, though.

[GordonB]

Lighten up, life is short.

Why must the dlr put into the sales contract a clause for loaner bikes? Geez

Most reputable dlrs will gladly give you a loaner bike when you go into svc if you bought your bike from them, IF one is available. During the busy svc season, you may need to schedule and confirm a loaner is available. After all you can not expect the dlr to have a loaner for evert bike in svc.

Crappy So Cal??? If it's so crappy MOVE, more road for the rest of us.

3 Hours???? How about Long beach BMW or Irv Seavers in Orange county.

LA to Ventura is a lousy commute compared to LA to Orange County or Long Beach.

Yes maybe the salesman made a mistake about the loaner but really, is life that bad?????

Don't TRASH a good dlr for one little mistake or misunderstanding.

[Tonopah]

Who exactly did you deal with at BMW Newbury Park? I bought my bike there and was pleased with the service all the way around. I am pretty sure that they will provide a loaner bike if one is available, and they usually are, but you need to ask immediately in advance of your service appointment. They are quite accommodating there but I would not expect them to put a loaner in a contract as they never know how many loaner bikes might be available at any future time. The answer to your question about loaner bikes though, should have been “we provide loaners if one is available at the time of service.”

By the way, I was in that shop just today and a service customer immediately before me asked for a taxi to the train station (his bike was left for needed service) and within 5 minutes one of the service guys pulled up a van and told the customer that they’d be happy to drive him to the station -- no taxi needed.

I’ve also joined the guy who is the head of sales there on group rides to Nevada. This is a good shop with good folks. I’m sorry your experience was a disappointment for you though.

[Redbrick]

Sorry that you had a bad experience with that dealership.....I think this was unfortunate but there are a good bunch of guys there....I'm surprised that you were misled on the phone...They don't opeate that way in my experience and are well very liked by regular customers.....

 

Phil........Redbrick

[onedae]

sorry to hear this - thats unusual for them. They are a good dealership with a stand up group of people. On the other hand, you don't sound like a very easy going kind of guy with that attitude about socal.

If you liked the bike, go buy it. they have always had a loaner for me and I'm sure they will for you too as long as you give them reasonable notice.

[ESokoloff]

Sorry to hear of your miss-understandings @ BMW Ventura County.

 

The one time I needed a loner bike from them I arranged for it before hand.

 

Unless this policy has changed, I'm not sure why you would need a contract for this courtesy

[Warren_H]

I've had loaner from them the three times I've asked. The tank has always been full and they've never requested that it be full on return, but I fill it anyway.

[kingpinofdisks]

I asked for a loner bike written in the deal for scheduled maintenance. I know I need to call and schedule an appointment. I just want to know if I schedule for next Wed, I get a bike that Wed.

 

Why do I want this? Because I ride daily for work. If I were a weekend warrior, I wouldn't give a leap off the pier. I am a 25K/yr in LA traffic rider.

 

I don't trust any dealer to do 'best effort' and 'try our best' - that is baloney. If the visit is scheduled, then I should be able to know I get a loaner for that day.

 

That mean 4 service visits minimum per year, plus tires/brake pads all the time. You would think they want that kind of business, but they said they didn't care.

 

Heck I asked the sales guy to throw in 3 grand in extras, but since none of them were "BMW" options, he wasen't interested in going out and buying the stuff and installing it on the bike.

 

I ain't trashing the dealer - I am simply stating what happened and that I am upset by it.

[leikam]

Since your mobility seems to be critical and you don't trust dealers, have you considered buying a second bike? What are you going to do if you get the contract you want and the dealer doesn't have a loaner for you? Sue them?

[BMT]

Heck I asked the sales guy to throw in 3 grand in extras, but since none of them were "BMW" options, he wasen't interested in going out and buying the stuff and installing it on the bike.

 

I ain't trashing the dealer - I am simply stating what happened and that I am upset by it.

So, to sum up:

 

You want everything your own way, cost no object, no matter how it may inconvenience anyone else or push them outside their stated operating zone.

 

No, I wouldn't do business with you either.

[iBMUR]

Heck I asked the sales guy to throw in 3 grand in extras, but since none of them were "BMW" options, he wasen't interested in going out and buying the stuff and installing it on the bike.

 

I ain't trashing the dealer - I am simply stating what happened and that I am upset by it.

So, to sum up:

 

You want everything your own way, cost no object, no matter how it may inconvenience anyone else or push them outside their stated operating zone.

 

No, I wouldn't do business with you either.

 

Actually, his point seems much simpler. The dealer told gave him their word, he took them at their word, ultimately they did not own up to their word. You make it sound like the dealer is the victim, in this instance. We need to raise the bar, not lower it.

[Quinn]

Does anyone want to contact the dealer and see if he wants to write a rebuttal?

 

I would think anything could be written into a contract---for a price. I'd guarentee a loaner for the additional cost of a second bike which could be left with the dealer. Problem solved?

No, the problem is not solved. The problem is that he was told one thing on the phone and another when he went there. Doesn't matter if the demands were reasonable or not; that's not the point.

 

Still would like to see the dealer's response.

[wbrissette]

Heck at least this dealership has loaners. The local BMW shop does not loan out bikes due to liability (or at least that's their story).

 

Wayne

[David]

Here's my summary:

 

1) Without knowing the sales person's side, it appears he lied to you. Not good, and if it's true, I'd ask for another sales person or go to a different dealer.

 

2) Your request is unreasonable and they shouldn't have promised it to you in the first place. My wife has a Q45, a high end luxury car where the policy is to always give the customer a loaner. Even though we bought it used and it now has 120k+ on it, usually they give us a brand new Infiniti to drive, but my only expectation is that they'll do their best to get us a loaner. Guarantee it? Why should they. It's not their problem that you are thusly dependent on one vehicle. And as Michael said, what's your recourse, to sue them? Your approach to being a customer is what I call "brittle loyalty based on outrageous demands." None of that relates to no. 1, above, but it does relate to how you might be shopping in the first place.

 

Get a Honda with longer service intervals, and buy a used bike with the difference for those few times it does need service. Or learn to do it yourself. This ain't worth an ulcer.

[Paul Mihalka]

"Why do you sales guys lie on the phone?" I'm a sales guy and I don't lie on the phone.

[Bud]

"Why do you sales guys lie on the phone?" I'm a sales guy and I don't lie on the phone.

 

Ya but Paul, you wouldn't lie even if you weren't a sales guy.

[ESokoloff]

I asked for a loner bike written in the deal for scheduled maintenance. I know I need to call and schedule an appointment. I just want to know if I schedule for next Wed, I get a bike that Wed.

 

Why do I want this? Because I ride daily for work. If I were a weekend warrior, I wouldn't give a leap off the pier. I am a 25K/yr in LA traffic rider.

 

I don't trust any dealer to do 'best effort' and 'try our best' - that is baloney. If the visit is scheduled, then I should be able to know I get a loaner for that day.

 

That mean 4 service visits minimum per year, plus tires/brake pads all the time.........

 

 

Are you aware that they have a pick-up/drop-off service?

 

Of course its not free but it would address many of your concerns.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

I'm skeptical that any salesperson would agree to write a loaner into the deal. Perhaps there's a bit of miscommunication going on here. If you found a bike you liked for a reasonable price then I'd say go back to find out where the breakdown was. It's obvious neither of you were on the same page, and I have a hard time beleiving that a salesperson is going to agree to something like that just "to get you in the door."

 

I've been in retail in the past, and I can tell already that the demands for perfection won't end with the sale of the motorcycle. Customers who make silly demands then freak out when they can't get them are what give retail a bad name.

[Kris]

The sales guy didn't lie.

 

You asked if they have loaners, he answered "yes". They do have loaners, right?

 

You are pissed they won't write it into the contract, and I would have to agree with the dealer in this case. I completely understand your side and I'd say if you schedule your services reasonably you'll receive a loaner 99.9% of the time. I'm thinking they're trying to protect themselves for the one time you call and they're already booked for loaners and you still want your service. They can't just have a loaner waiting for you to call at any time... and last time I stood in a line - I appreciated that I got serviced before the guy who walked up 30 minutes after me.

 

BTW - loaners aren't free to the dealer. The dealer pays for those bikes, pays for the maintenance, and the dealer gets to experience any depreciation from their usage. Also, dealers that do have loaner programs can expect to write a much larger check to their insurance company each year. It's $30,000-$40,000 more in insurance premium for the company (in California) to provide loaners.

 

The important thing is if they understand that you can't be without your transportation and are willing to commit to making sure you're always rolling. Whether that be with a loaner, pickup/dropoff service, etc.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[BMT]

Actually, his point seems much simpler. The dealer told gave him their word, he took them at their word, ultimately they did not own up to their word. You make it sound like the dealer is the victim, in this instance. We need to raise the bar, not lower it.

Not being privy to the original telephone conversation, I wasn't commenting on what was or wasn't promised at that time, but on the statement about the "three grand in extras".

 

Raising the bar or unreasonable expectations? The dealer has to source parts and accessories not normally on inventory, fit them and warrant them. I would see that as a bar likely to be raised on every visit and politely decline, avoiding becoming a victim.

 

Quoting David:

Your approach to being a customer is what I call "brittle loyalty based on outrageous demands." None of that relates to no. 1, above, but it does relate to how you might be shopping in the first place.

I concur with this assessment.

[Redbrick]

Suggest you call and make the same proposal to other dealers and see what their responses are.....And post results....

 

Phil.......Redbrick

[PhillyFlash]

I don't trust any dealer to do 'best effort' and 'try our best' - that is baloney. If the visit is scheduled, then I should be able to know I get a loaner for that day.

 

Last I knew, most dealers who give out "loaner" bikes have very few available. While they may usually be able to accommodate customers, I doubt they can guarantee it. If they expect a "loaner" to be back the day before your appointment, but then find additional problems with the bike they're repairing that will take additional days, that "loaner" that they thought would be available now becomes unavailable. So do they now pull a new bike off the floor to give to you? What if your bike has a major problem that takes a week or longer to obtain parts and to repair. Now they lose a bike for who knows how long, and all of those other customers they "guaranteed" a bike to will be upset because they can't follow through with the "guarantee." Then there is the down time to perform service on those "loaners." All of this makes it difficult to write a "loaner" into the contract.

 

If the salesman made a false statement over the phone and then changed it when you got there, I'd take it up with the owner and try to resolve the issue to your mutual satisfaction before coming here and making a global statement about sales guys (and no, I'm not one of them, but I have liked a few of them). Having a dealer who will do everything they can to accommodate you is great. Having one who will guarantee to do everything you want to accommodate you is a fantasy.

 

 

Heck I asked the sales guy to throw in 3 grand in extras, but since none of them were "BMW" options, he wasn't interested in going out and buying the stuff and installing it on the bike.

 

This one really gets me. You were expecting a dealer to go out, locate, and purchase $3000 worth of non-BMW accessories, for which they make no profit and may have to pay retail price, and give them to you for free? Then you want them to install everything, for free, no matter how long that will take? I'm trying to put this all together. You want a motorcycle for the lowest possible price you can get it for (this is just a guess, since very few of us walk in an ask to pay list or higher), you want them to guarantee that every time you schedule an appointment you will immediately get a loaner bike for as long as you need that loaner bike (on which you will put countless miles in your commute and pleasure riding until your bike is ready, even if that mean a week or two or more), and after they give you their best deal and a guaranteed loaner, you want them to buy $3000 dollars worth of things for you that aren't BMW items (my e.g., Russell Saddle, Remus exhaust, PIAAs, GIVI case, etc), thereby lowering their best price by that $3000 dollars, and then, at no cost to you, install all of those option? I can't imagine that they were broken-hearted when you walked out the door.

 

If you find someone who actually gives you all these things that you're asking for please come back and tell us.

[Rick_R]

I know the people at BMW of Ventura and I am surprised that this even became an issue. They should have made it clear over the phone that loaners were available but on a first come first served basis. I bought my R1200 RT there and when taking my bike in for service I have never been refused a loaner so long as I ordered it in advance.

 

My experience with this dealership has been first class all the way.

 

Rick

[kingpinofdisks]

Yes Nick, when purchasing a $25K BMW, I expect the extras, at no cost. Otherwise I would get a rice rocket.

 

Good to know you don't go the extra mile for a customer, Nick. I do it in my own business, and expect others to be similar

[kingpinofdisks]

No Philly Flash - I asked them to add the $3G in extras to the financing. They didn't want to source non-BMW parts because it takes extra work on their part. I was willing to pay sticker for the bike, plus the extras, if the sales guy would be accomodating. Instead he was rather upset at the thought of extra work.

 

So, it seems like some people here are OK with the laziness (won't source a few parts to make a sale) and the fib on the phone.

 

I treat customers like GOLD, because that what a customer is - gold to me. If others aren't like that, then I will bitch about it - seems like some of the people here couldn't work a customer-oriented type of job, cause they don't have much of a work ethic or a good attitude.

[kingpinofdisks]

With a BMW automobile, they are more than willing to write the loaner or a free rental in the contract. That is where I got the idea in the first place - a prior car purchase several years ago.

 

Seems bike dealers aren't the same a the car dealers. And I am not asking something unreasonable - just a loaner bike when I bring my in for scheduled maintenance - they won't guarantee anything, so I would rather buy from the local guy near me (who has no loaners at all) and get a drop-off from their car dealership side.

 

In other words - I wouldn't have driven 1 hr to the dealership if he haden't said YES when I asked if a loaner could be written into the deal. That wasted 3 hours total of time because the sales guy either lied on purpose or didn't understand my basic English very well.

 

And I am not getting an ulcer or freaking over this - just annoyed at the waste of time when there was no need for it.

 

Sheesh - lots of people here I would never want to do business with... some of you guys seem to think the dealer does me a favor just selling me a bike...

[Firefight911]

I treat customers like GOLD, because that what a customer is - gold to me. If others aren't like that, then I will bitch about it - seems like some of the people here couldn't work a customer-oriented type of job, cause they don't have much of a work ethic or a good attitude.

 

All customers are NOT gold. I do not subscribe to the, "The customer is always right" philosophy.

 

The customer is not always right. Many times they are anything but right. Yes, they are still the customer and deserve to be treated fairly and with respect.

 

I think no one here has indicated an acceptance of laziness. At least not from what I have read.

 

As for teh "fib." Go and speak with the owner and sales person collectively in the same room and work it out. If you won't do that, it appears that we know who is lazy.

[Les is more]

You are welcome to your opinion of what you expect a dealer to do for you and have amply demonstrated your sense of entitlement. However, you started with a very broad brush--"you salesmen," and are prepared to not only argue with but denigrate anyone not in your corner. You've had your say. I don't see any point in continuing this conversation.