Extra oil cooler - posible on oilheads?

[rahbert]

I commute in North TX (Gainesville to Ft Worth) and summer

temps in the 100s are common. As long as I can keep moving

the temp stays at 6 bars max. But if congestion occurs the

temp quickly maxes out. I wonder if there is enough oil pressure to push through an extra cooler... has anyone

tried replacing the tiny stock R1100RT cooler with a larger one? Thanks in advance.

[smiller]

I think what some people have done in your case is to install the RT-P cooling fan.

 

BTW kudos to you if you can hack heavy traffic in the afternoon these days. I have no traffic on the way home and I am still just about done when I pull into the garage...

[Bob Palin]

I used to have that problem in LA, switching to synthetic oil fixed it.

[rondob4]

I think what some people have done in your case is to install the RT-P cooling fan.

 

I have the RT-P fan on my bike, but only switch it on in stop & go traffic or when it's really hot. Augusta gets pretty steamy in the summer, too.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Your issue is not cooling capacity, as witness your temp remains more or less normal so long as you keep moving.

 

The issue becomes one of two things, one of which you can do something about and one of which you can't.

 

You can increase air flow over the existing cooler (fan) which will help cooling at the expense of the electrical system (more than adequate but watch out for running the fan for long periods when idling.

 

The second problem, about which you can't do much, is that the oil pump flow rate varies with engine RPM so you are just not pumping as much oil through the cooler. Not much to be done there.

 

Little to be gained by adding more cooling area via a second cooler as the efficiency of these coolers (indeed all heat exchangers) is directly proportional to temperature difference so, adding another cooler is going to reduce the efficiency of whichever cooler is second in line. If the total area was marginal, that might help just a bit, but, the case appears to be that surface area is adequate.

[russell_bynum]

Food for thought:

 

A BMW tech once told me "We never had reports of these things overheating until they put oil temperature gauges on them."

[SageRider]

Food for thought:

 

A BMW tech once told me "We never had reports of these things overheating until they put oil temperature gauges on them."

There are a lot of things that BMW techs will state they never heard of....

[russell_bynum]

Food for thought:

 

A BMW tech once told me "We never had reports of these things overheating until they put oil temperature gauges on them."

There are a lot of things that BMW techs will state they never heard of....

 

LOL! True enough.

 

Honestly, though...

 

If it were me:

I wouldn't intentionally ride in stop and go traffic in tripple digit heat...especially if I couldn't lane split. That isn't fun, and I ride motorcycles to have fun.

 

If I had no choice, I'd run synthetic oil and just ride the thing.

[smiller]

If I had no choice, I'd run synthetic oil and just ride the thing.

Me too. I have to think that a human being would keel over from heat stroke before you would damage the engine.

[Are12C]

RTP cooling fan??? Anyone got part numbers or a website where this mod has been performed? I'd like to see this.

[Davis]

 

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...hg=17&fg=10

 

Most that do the mod don't add the temperature switch but just wire the fan to a toggle on the dash or grip.

[ltljohn]

There was an article on how to do this in the MOA magazine July of 05 issue. I bet if you ask on the MOA forum someone will be able to provide info.

You can also go to A&S Cycles or MAX BMW and find parts in their fiche there is also a connection on this board

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/mechanical.html

[BUSTED]

Robert, in your profile you list your bike as a RT-P. It should have the cooling fan behind the oil cooler. After mounting this fan on 2 of my oilheads and on many other ones over the last 10 years I can tell you they work well. I don't use the temperature switch in these installations as it doesn't allow the fan to run as soon as I like. If your bike is fan equipped you might want to hook it up to an on/off switch so that you can dictate it's run time. I've run the fan extended times without ever a battery/electrical issue. None of the people I have helped with this installation have ever mentioned electrical issues either. One time last year it took 2 hrs to run 2 klm in 94 degree weather to cross over to Port Huron. It wasn't my choice but, the border into the US was backed up. Last month it took me 1.5 hrs cross the Peace Bridge into Buffalo. Incidents like these make the use of a fan pulling air through the oil cooler a nice option.

[GrumpyOldMan]

On my 2000 R1100RT-P, the temp sensor for this fan is located on the lower left side of the engine. The sensor simply provides (completes) a ground path for the fan circuit. The sensor is normally 'open' and when it senses high temp (don't know how high), it closes or makes a path to ground. What I did was to splice into this single wire (anywhere along it's path) with an additional wire. This extra wire was run to through a single pole, single throw toggle switch on my instrument panel and then to a ground connection. Flipping the toggle switch to 'on' completes the ground path and the fan runs. The temp switch will still function and turn the fan on (at some higher temp) if you don't turn it on manually with this switch. I even jumped in an LED for lamp indication when I turn the fan on.

[RSL]

It is vital to have a good, smooth EXIT duct or pathway for the cooling air to go AFTER it passes through the heat exchanger and back into the slipstream. Good ducting makes any heat exchanger vastly more efficient, but designers typically neglect the exit duct, assuming an inlet duct is all that's needed. Wrong! Exit ducts are equally important.

[chrisz]

See http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17024&highlight=oil+cooler+fan

 

Two computer fans with a temp switch and it works!

[LanceJFerraro]

That little oil cooler can shed a lot more heat than it seems. I was looking for one for my car, a high revving four cylinder, and the recommended one was scarcely bigger than the one on my R1100GS. That kind of cooler with flat tubes w/ fins in between is the most effecient (look at what WWII fighters, and airplanes use). If you still want to upgrade the cooler, I suggest you put a bigger one in the stock system. I believe, even at idle, the oil system still pumps at the gallons per minute rate. Run synthetic oil also, it is so much more heat tolerant, as well as synthetic oil absorbs and rejects heat 10% better than dino. Just changing the oil will be like adding a 10% larger cooler.

[rahbert]

That is the case, my fan is in its original configuration

(triggered by temperature switch). I assumed it was working

and was simply overwhelmed by the Texas heat.

 

I enjoy riding but with a 70 mile commute each way I also need to save fuel. Perhaps the fan unit bought it, but

I can't see why these weren't standard equipment. Maybe

they don't get stuck in traffic on hot days in Germany?

[Boffin]

That is the case, my fan is in its original configuration

(triggered by temperature switch). I assumed it was working

and was simply overwhelmed by the Texas heat.

 

I enjoy riding but with a 70 mile commute each way I also need to save fuel. Perhaps the fan unit bought it, but

I can't see why these weren't standard equipment. Maybe

they don't get stuck in traffic on hot days in Germany?

 

In Europe bikes pass traffic when it stops, we do not sit in line like the cages. This seems pretty universal over here. In the UK passing down the outside of traffic that has stalled is legally overtaking. If there is a solid line it is legal to pass if you do not cross the line.

 

Andy

[T__]

That is the case, my fan is in its original configuration

(triggered by temperature switch). I assumed it was working

and was simply overwhelmed by the Texas heat.

 

I enjoy riding but with a 70 mile commute each way I also need to save fuel. Perhaps the fan unit bought it, but

I can't see why these weren't standard equipment. Maybe

they don't get stuck in traffic on hot days in Germany?

 

Robert, I think people read way more into that RID temperature reading than need be.. Remember that dash gauge is showing the temperature of the oil THAT’S LEAVING THE ENGINE just after it has picked up all that heat from the cylinder heads.. That gauge isn’t showing the sump temp, or the oil cooler exit temp,, or the oil temp that is going into the engine main lubricating system.. I would worry more if it didn’t show an increased temperature as that would mean it wasn’t removing excess heat from the cylinder head area..

 

My Harley Electra Glide doesn’t have oil cooling,, or an oil cooler,, or oil cooling of the cyl heads & in 100°f stopped traffic the oil gets so hot & thinned out that the oil light flickers at slow idle (Most EVO Harleys do the same thing & they have been operating like that for years & years without lasting engine damage ) ..

 

Twisty

[BUSTED]

I don't need a temp gage on my bike. Never did. I can still tell the difference in my engine when it's hot. Gage be damned, if I can hear the bottom end rattling when moving off from a stop it needs cooled down. The oil cooler fan does this nicely for me.

[Ken H.]

I think people read way more into that RID temperature reading than need be..

Exactly. If the RID shows too high a temp, tape over it!

 

A boxer motor can take an incredible amount of heat. People never knew they 'overheated' until they started putting temperature gauges on them!

[chrisz]

Few questions, does not the owners manual (or shop manual) recommend not idling the engine for long periods of time and using fans to cool the front of the engine while performing TB synch? Where there not incidents where the bottom of the tupperware melted due to overheating pipes? If stuck in traffic on a hot day, would it not be similar to idling the engine? Perhaps its the heat of the pipes that is the issue and not the engine, don't know, just asking.

[Bob Palin]

The plastic will definitely melt before the engine is damaged. Just switch to synthetic coolant, solves the problem at a stroke.

[smiller]

Where there not incidents where the bottom of the tupperware melted due to overheating pipes?

Only where the engine was left running with the bike in a stationary position for a long time, such as the owner going in the house 'for a second' and forgetting the bike was running. In any kind of real-world traffic situation there will be enough airflow around the header pipes to prevent damage to the fairing, and if you're stopped in traffic so long that this is a possibility (such as stopped for a long construction traffic hold, etc.) then by that time you would have probably shut the engine off to wait it out.

[T__]

Few questions, does not the owners manual (or shop manual) recommend not idling the engine for long periods of time and using fans to cool the front of the engine while performing TB synch? Where there not incidents where the bottom of the tupperware melted due to overheating pipes? If stuck in traffic on a hot day, would it not be similar to idling the engine? Perhaps its the heat of the pipes that is the issue and not the engine, don't know, just asking.

 

Chrisz, not so much against idling for long periods but specifically against FAST idling with the choke (fast idle) on for long.. Doesn’t make a tremendous amount of exhaust heat at warm engine curb idle but will quickly turn the pipes red hot if it idles at fast idle in cold fuel enrichment..

 

Not sure why BMW never adopted the Harley method of alternately shutting the fuel injectors off for a revolution or two at extreme hot engine idle & allowing the intake to pull in non igniting cooled air to cool the cylinders/exhaust in extreme hot idle situations (works wonders on the Harley V-twin)..

 

Twisty

[bwr]

I used to have that problem in LA, switching to synthetic oil fixed it.

 

Bob -- If I'm not mistaken you've frequently advocated running Rotella 15/40 oil in oilheads, which is not only not a synthetic, but also doesn't meet the BMW spec for viscosity.

[Bob Palin]

Bob -- If I'm not mistaken you've frequently advocated running Rotella 15/40 oil in oilheads, which is not only not a synthetic, but also doesn't meet the BMW spec for viscosity.

You are mistaken, I use the Rotella 5/40 synthetic. I started using Rotella as a result of research by Mater Yoda who I trust to be thorough in these things. If I have typed 15/40 in the past I apologise for my mistake but I usually check the bottle before posting, as I just did.

[bwr]

You are mistaken

Ok -- Thanks for the clarification!

[rahbert]

I wish it were legal here in TX. Unfortunately its

illegal in most US states. On an RTP the troopers

might look the other way but a non-authority looking

cycle would likely get a citation from the man in the big

hat.

[Bob Palin]

I wish it were legal here in TX.

It almost was in 2005, you need to pressure your legislature...

 

A BILL TO BE ENTITLED AN ACT

relating to the operation and movement of motorcycles during

periods of traffic congestion.

 

BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:

 

SECTION 1. Section 545.060, Transportation Code, is amended

by amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsection (e) to read as

follows:

(a) An operator on a roadway divided into two or more

clearly marked lanes for traffic:

(1) shall drive as nearly as practical entirely within

a single lane, except as provided by Subsection (e); and

(2) may not move from the lane unless that movement can

be made safely.

(e) The operator of a motorcycle may operate the motorcycle

for a safe distance between lanes of traffic moving in the same

direction during periods of traffic congestion if the operator:

(1) is at least 21 years old;

(2) has successfully completed a motorcycle operator

training and safety course under Chapter 662;

(3) is covered by a health insurance plan providing

the operator with at least $10,000 in medical benefits for injuries

incurred as a result of an accident while operating a motorcycle;

and

(4) operates the motorcycle:

(A) at a speed not more than five miles per hour

over the speed of the other traffic;

(B) in traffic that is moving at a speed of 20

miles per hour or less; and

© in a location other than a school crossing

zone or other than a location where the posted speed limit is 20

miles per hour or less.

SECTION 2. This Act takes effect September 1, 2005.

[chrisz]

Wow, all good information. Yet the Police version have oil cooler fans?

The Harley bit of info was interesting, seems like a clever solution without resorting to oil coolers, fans, water cooling.