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"time distance ticketing" texas style $$$$$


barncobob

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I can imagine the vendors are lobbying( read wine and dine) the state hard for this program; look for them to be selling the revenue success to other jurisdictions. It's also in their interest to monopolize it by selling it to the state rather than local communities.

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"In use in Britain under the trade name SPECS, these cameras are commonly referred to as "yellow vultures" and are among the most lucrative in the country."

 

Hmmmm... interesting how they phrase that... 'lucrative'.

 

 

I am so thankful that ticketing based on time over distance is actually against the law in California.

"Despite the near-unanimous opposition in the state legislature to the use of speed cameras, the Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT) is moving forward on a proposal to deploy photo radar on state highways using federal gas tax funds."

 

Looks like it will be in Texas soon, too... wink.gif

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One thing I don't understand is... who writes the actual citation? TXDOT doesn't have any enforcement authority on its own...

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duckbubbles
I got a feelin someone out for votes will stop it.

 

I really hope so. It's bad enough dodging the DPS, County and City cops to get my speed fix. This sounds like pure revenue, not a mention of "safety". 5 mph over is about standard highway cruise. Lots of people do 10-15+.

 

Frank

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It looks like a trip through the dirt and muddy license plates will be in order. clap.gifclap.gif Hard to find out who you are by the color of the speeding vehicle only. dopeslap.gifdopeslap.gif

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PhillyFlash

Photo radar in Arizona. Time/distance ticketing in Texas. I'm sure that there are other photo ticketings in other states. Now I know that our license plates are suppose to be displayed on the rear of the bike where they can be clearly read by an officer. But what's the penalty if you don't have your license plate displayed. What if your plate holder broke and you had to carry your plate in your bag until it got fixed. If there was photo radar or time/distance cameras that couldn't see the plate, no ticket for speeding. If an officer stops you and you say that the holder just broke that day, and as soon as you get home you'll fix it, you may still get a ticket for not displaying your plate, but would that still be considered a moving violation, and would the fine be more or less than for speeding, and would there be points? Plus, if you repaired/replaced the broken holder, remounted the plate, took a photo of it, and then sent the photo to the county or state D.A., is it possible that the charges would be dropped? Afterall, you did have a license plate, it just couldn't be displayed due to an equipment failure. Not that I would consider doing this, but hypothetically, someone from out of state who was traveling through Texas could remove their license plate and use the above excuse. Hypothetically.

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One thing I don't understand is... who writes the actual citation? TXDOT doesn't have any enforcement authority on its own...

 

Good point.

 

Time to ask the Lawman.

 

Whip

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I am so thankful that ticketing based on time over distance is actually against the law in California.

You are correct. Here is the section...

40802. (a) A "speed trap" is either of the following:

(1) A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and

with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order

that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it

takes the vehicle to travel the known distance.

 

An exception..you should be aware CHP aircraft checks your speed by determining the time it takes your vehicle to travel between two marks on the shoulder. The airplane then calls a ground unit to stop your vehicle. Usually you see those ground units stacked six deep on an on-ramp. I/80 westbound near Auburn is a common location.

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I am so thankful that ticketing based on time over distance is actually against the law in California.

 

 

 

Actually, you should check with your local independent trucker about that......Time-distance between Castaic and Chowchilla scales with Internet link has been used to calculate average speed and citations have been issued if greater than commercial speed limit....

"It just ain't fun no more.."

 

Then again...with the terrain and lower speeds to climb the grapevine etc... they can actually blow down CA99 at a pretty good clip and not exceed the average.. Hmm....

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I am so thankful that ticketing based on time over distance is actually against the law in California.

You are correct. Here is the section...

40802. (a) A "speed trap" is either of the following:

(1) A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and

with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order

that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it

takes the vehicle to travel the known distance.

 

An exception..you should be aware CHP aircraft checks your speed by determining the time it takes your vehicle to travel between two marks on the shoulder. The airplane then calls a ground unit to stop your vehicle.

 

 

Question: If the plane doesn't land and the observing officer hand out the ticket, sounds like the guy on the ground is writing based on hearsay....??

Dunno about these days, but I used that argument back 15-20 years ago in Modesto and they threw the ticket out of court.

 

Also, where is the section of the VC that says that the CHP is the exception to the rule? lurker.giflurker.gif

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...to deploy photo radar on state highways using federal gas tax funds.

 

Your gas taxes at work.

Makes sense in a way. Gas tax revenues are going down so the state simply spends some money on speed cameras and makes a huge 'return' on its investment... smirk.gif
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I am so thankful that ticketing based on time over distance is actually against the law in California.

You are correct. Here is the section...

40802. (a) A "speed trap" is either of the following:

(1) A particular section of a highway measured as to distance and

with boundaries marked, designated, or otherwise determined in order

that the speed of a vehicle may be calculated by securing the time it

takes the vehicle to travel the known distance.

 

An exception..you should be aware CHP aircraft checks your speed by determining the time it takes your vehicle to travel between two marks on the shoulder. The airplane then calls a ground unit to stop your vehicle.

 

 

Question: If the plane doesn't land and the observing officer hand out the ticket, sounds like the guy on the ground is writing based on hearsay....??

Dunno about these days, but I used that argument back 15-20 years ago in Modesto and they threw the ticket out of court.

 

Also, where is the section of the VC that says that the CHP is the exception to the rule? lurker.giflurker.gif

 

Yes it is "hearsay" but both the observer and ground unit show up to testify if the ticket is contested.

It says a speed trap is time/distance used to measure speed on a "highway". Freeways are technically something other than "highways". This is just an educated guess, I'm not positive. Could also be an exception because I/80 is a federally funded roadway. There probably is another exception because time/distance is being used to enforce the maximum speed limit, not a local speed limit. A synonym to this topic is an old speed detection device called VASCAR.

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It says a speed trap is time/distance used to measure speed on a "highway". Freeways are technically something other than "highways". This is just an educated guess, I'm not positive. Could also be an exception because I/80 is a federally funded roadway. There probably is another exception because time/distance is being used to enforce the maximum speed limit, not a local speed limit. A synonym to this topic is an old speed detection device called VASCAR.

I remeber VASCAR...Speedometer tied to the patrol car speedo with stopwatches for the patrol car and for you. interesting concept. Only worked when you were both going in the same direction though.

Freeways are technically something other than "highways".
Only in Kalifornia......
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Rocket_Cowboy
One thing I don't understand is... who writes the actual citation? TXDOT doesn't have any enforcement authority on its own...

 

If it's like the work around municipalities used for the red light cameras, it will be classified as a civil or administrative offense, rather than the criminal offense that traffic code currently falls under.

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The answer finally hit me..

This section is the definition of a "speed trap". Speed traps are defined as local roadways where speeds less than the maximum speed limit is enforced.

Time/distance speed enforcement is therefore legal on California roadways where the maximum speed limit is enforced.

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Lets_Play_Two
The answer finally hit me..

This section is the definition of a "speed trap". Speed traps are defined as local roadways where speeds less than the maximum speed limit is enforced.

Time/distance speed enforcement is therefore legal on California roadways where the maximum speed limit is enforced.

 

My guess is that this would all be moot IF the state decided to use cameras. Any conflicting statutes would just be amended by the new one.

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texasaggie97

Texas, I will say that we do have highways that the speed limit is 85 that is nice. That make a difference if you allow the traffic to drive faster but you then ask them to not drive 95 is ok by me. I know that the speed limit between these locations are 70 but you never know what the final decision will be. I will say that someone will have to give somewhere. No camaras or more speed. Hopefully it all comes out in the wash.

My 2 cents.

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One thing I don't understand is... who writes the actual citation? TXDOT doesn't have any enforcement authority on its own...

 

If it's like the work around municipalities used for the red light cameras, it will be classified as a civil or administrative offense, rather than the criminal offense that traffic code currently falls under.

 

Ding Ding Ding!!!!

 

We have a winner..You are correct...And they can make your life miserable! It sucks! Don't get mad at the cops..It's not the cops doing it and I don't have any good ideas how it can be stopped unless people are willing to organize and make it a political issue..

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So if this POS was to photo me and I got a ticket. Would the camera have to show up in court so that I may "Face my accuser and cross examine it"? The accused does have the right to cross examine wink.gif

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So if this POS was to photo me and I got a ticket. Would the camera have to show up in court so that I may "Face my accuser and cross examine it"? The accused does have the right to cross examine wink.gif

 

Yeah, I hear they make those cameras with a little etched plate on them that says " I take the fifth...."... lurker.giflurker.gif

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So if this POS was to photo me and I got a ticket. Would the camera have to show up in court so that I may "Face my accuser and cross examine it"? The accused does have the right to cross examine wink.gif

 

See above post..It's not a criminal action..It's civil and or administrative..They can do such things as refuse to register the auto and refuse to renew driver's license's of registered owners and stuff such as that b.s..

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Okay, question. Will I be aware of he first camera or device? If so it would seem like a good time to pull over for a smoke or Coke. Or will they be well hidden? Perhaps disguised as a tumbleweed or maybe even a George Bush bobblehead.

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Rocket_Cowboy
See above post..It's not a criminal action..It's civil and or administrative..They can do such things as refuse to register the auto and refuse to renew driver's license's of registered owners and stuff such as that b.s..

 

And because it's a civil offense rather than a criminal case, the burden of proof is drastically different. The camera or the camera operator doesn't have to appear in court to swear by their position, it's assumed to be true unless you can prove otherwise.

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Lawman, what if you're out-of-state. What can they do?

 

johnlt

 

Can't answer that with certainty but I can tell you Texas has reciprocal agreemnents with some if not most states that will refuse to renew your driver's license if you fail to pay an out of state speeding ticket..

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Rocket_Cowboy
Can't answer that with certainty but I can tell you Texas has reciprocal agreemnents with some if not most states that will refuse to renew your driver's license if you fail to pay an out of state speeding ticket..

 

Would reciprocity be the same in this case? I keep correlating it back to the red light cameras because that's the only thing I've talked to my local PD about, but my understanding was that since the camera tickets are civil instances, they also don't carry points on your license like the similar criminal offense would incur if witnessed by an officer.

 

I don't know if it would more like be turned over to debt collectors for out of state unpaid, or whether there would be a bench warrant issued for non-compliance. That's where my tiny bit of legal knowledge ends.

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Here is a detailed description of the legal processes involved when using red light cameras in Texas, no doubt the situation with speed cameras will be similar or identical.

 

So it looks like the real question is... does the speed camera system photograph the front of the vehicle or the rear? wink.gif

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They just raised the speed limit to 80MPH on I-10 and now they're putting up speed traps...I guess it makes sense to the the morons that run the Texas legislature...makes one wish George Bush was Governor again... lmao.gif

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I stand corrected. According to the article a person's driver's license nor his vehicle registration can be refused for renewal for failure to pay a civil citation of running a red light as determined by use of a camera..I've been told differently. I just wonder since civil monetery penalties can be enforced via property liens if that may also be a recourse available for collection..I do know that those are often turned over to collection agencies for collection..What a bunch of crap!

 

I will say the trend now for unpaid tickets is to refuse to renew driver's license's as opposed to issuing warrants..I stop people nearly every day whose license have been denied renewal..That is a jailable offense (B misdemeanor).

 

 

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So if this POS was to photo me and I got a ticket. Would the camera have to show up in court so that I may "Face my accuser and cross examine it"? The accused does have the right to cross examine wink.gif

 

See above post..It's not a criminal action..It's civil and or administrative..

 

So when I show up in traffic court to contest the ticket, the judge/administrator is an impartial observer (sarcasm), so then who represents "the State"? The Camera that took the picture? Or someone else? Was the "someone else" present at the time of the infraction?

 

It may be a non-criminal event, but an individual may still pursue justice by questioning those who cite or accuse...No?

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So if this POS was to photo me and I got a ticket. Would the camera have to show up in court so that I may "Face my accuser and cross examine it"? The accused does have the right to cross examine wink.gif

 

See above post..It's not a criminal action..It's civil and or administrative..

 

So when I show up in traffic court to contest the ticket, the judge/administrator is an impartial observer (sarcasm), so then who represents "the State"? The Camera that took the picture? Or someone else? Was the "someone else" present at the time of the infraction?

 

It may be a non-criminal event, but an individual may still pursue justice by questioning those who cite or accuse...No?

 

Probably a moot point. The SPECS system in the UK reads the front number plate in one lane only. Bikes of course do not have a front plate to read thumbsup.gif

 

Andy

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seems a little unfair to measure 'average' speed over a specific distance. Most enforcement in the past was/is current speed.

 

Hell hath no fury like a Government finding ways to generate revenue.

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What a scam. TxDOT loves its $$$. They've started putting in toll roads in the Austin area, now this? eek.gif

 

If you try driving the speed limit on IH-35 in Austin you're likely to get shot wink.gif I routinely do 85MPH on I35 and still get passed by cagers.

 

Its just another way of the govt sticking their hands in our pockets to feed the beast.

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