I miss my Harley

[Mike]

Of course, you all realize that we've got our own creed, right?

[gasser]

Mike

 

Remind me to never stand next to you in a lightning storm.

[Lets_Play_Two]

 

So, in X years of riding how often would this event occur versus the stereotype BMW and HD have? I believe you would find it to be a very small % of the time. You saw an exception, but that does not change the reality of what most of us see on the street every day. It's like saying "I saw a BMW with straight pipes, so HD's aren't the only ones who are loud.", it's not typical.

 

Something else most BMW riders lack....a sense of humor, and a sense of proportion, about motorcycles!!!

[hopz]

Harley people are nicer than BMW people.

 

I have never heard a Harley guy say anything negative about a BMW guy, or for that matter anything about a BMW motorcycle except "that's a nice bike".

 

Wish I could say the same about BMW people.

[bobbybob]

The problem is that I tend to have selective amnesia when it comes to recalling all the bad things about past Harleys, remembering only the good things. Let's see....I really miss the low rpm torquey pulsing motor---actually, that's about all I really miss. The other stuff---the nausea-inducing shaking at stoplights, the *scary* braking action, the severe head buffeting caused by those barn-door Harley windshields, the annoying rumble that sounded cool for about the first 15 minutes, the rear-end doing the hula on fast sweepers (E-glide), pogo-stick shocks, pushing a barge thru the twisties, and so on etc etc. I have had 4 of them over the past 4 years but now have a "Harley-Free household". My wife has learned to slap me back into consciousness whenever I start talking about missing the past Harleys. Too bad I didn't just go straight for the RT 4 years ago.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Don't make me dig up a picture of a zillion "individualist" BMW riders wearing identical Power Ranger suits and compairing PIAA Lights and GPS mounts.

 

To suggest that herd mentality is responsible for similarities between BMW riders is like saying that engineers all over the world design airplanes with wings and jet engines because of peer pressure. I wanted extra lights on my bike so I could see at night; I wanted GPS so I can tell where I am and where I'm going; and I wear protective gear not to look cool, but to save my skin in the event of a get-off. That these things happen to look cool (depending on who you talk to) is a secondary benefit, but I'm pretty sure most of us gravitate toward them primarily because they actually work.

[JerryMather]

I miss my Harley

 

 

You want mine?

 

 

 

That's SWEET

That would fit right in with my Yellow 996 and Yellow KRS.

[s boy]

harley bashing... everyone feel better now?

[s boy]

Harley people are nicer than BMW people.

 

I have never heard a Harley guy say anything negative about a BMW guy, or for that matter anything about a BMW motorcycle except "that's a nice bike".

 

Wish I could say the same about BMW people.

 

agree 100%

[Knifemaker]

After being on this board for a few years I felt smug owning a BMW (I still do). Now that I also own a Harley (and a Moto Guzzi) I understand what Harley bashing feels like (even though I really never did it).

 

So what is the real problem with Harley haters?

 

Bring it out in the open so I can understand it. It can not just be the motorcycle, the owners, or the life style because I read where some of the posters here like the bikes, not all the owners are "BIKERS", and the life style of all the Harley owners can not be put in one catagory....So what is the "REAL" underlying reason for Harley bashing?

[Mike]

Harley people are nicer than BMW people.

 

I have never heard a Harley guy say anything negative about a BMW guy, or for that matter anything about a BMW motorcycle except "that's a nice bike".

 

Wish I could say the same about BMW people.

 

agree 100%

 

You're absolutely right. Harley owners would never bash another brand of bike . . . . except literally, that is.

 

I've never quite gotten the appeal behind bad-mouthing another brand, at least in a serious manner. I appreciate H-Ds, but have little interest in owning one. And I'm fairly sure that most Harley owners aren't all that interested in buying a BMW.

 

But, I have to admit that I find Harley's approach to marketing goofy, though admittedly very, very effective. The Creed is a prime example of the irony--conveying the message that owning a Harley will make you into a rugged, free-spirited, bad-ass individualist . . . and that you'll be joining a huge number of other rugged, free-spirited, bad-ass individualists if you buy one.

 

Ah, the irony.

 

So what is the real problem with Harley haters?

 

Bring it out in the open so I can understand it.

 

Bill, that's a very legitimate question. At a basic level, it's important to distinguish between those who really hate Harleys and those who just kid about it. I think most here fall into the latter category. We see the goofiness among Harley owners, while ignoring the goofiness in our own habits and preferences. But, I will note one other thing that I've heard from Harley owners that tends to genuinely piss me off--it's the notion, somewhat often repeated, that buying a Harley is the only patriotic choice. It's manifested itself in b.s. like the Japanese Bike Bash that I linked to above, and in myriad instances where owners of foreign (primarily Japanese) bikes have been the object of abuse by Harley-owning "patriots." That seems to have diminished a lot over time, probably reaching its peak at the time that Harley sought protectionist tariffs against the foreign manufacturers, but there's still an undeniable undercurrent of that sort of sentiment among the Harley-Davidson crowd. And, no, you can't convince me that it doesn't still exist--I've personally encountered it when I've visited Harley dealerships. I think that it's the "holier than though, because I buy American" that continues to engender some genuine hostility from those who own foreign-built bikes. This sort of thing tends to encourage those who have been--or imagine that they've been--at the receiving end of this sort of thing to lash out at their tormentors. Really, it's all kind of stupid regardless of who's bashing whom, but as someone who's been a rider for many years, I don't buy into the notion that Harley owners don't dish it out themselves.

 

As long as it's done in jest, it's fine. In fact, it's entertaining and can actually build bonds. However, when it's genuinely mean-spirited it's stupid and diminishes all of us.

[Lawman]

I think some of you are missing the point on the "individualism" thing. To begin with

relatively speaking, the number of people who ride motorcycles are few. Among those few

there are many different brands represented with H.D. being one of many.. Harley does want

to project a certain image that separates them from the others..They also want to appeal to

those who have never ridden. That is a HUGE market.. It's not a messege that is addressed

to us or to others who have other brand loyalties..You are looking at this from a narrow

point of view and quite frankly H. D. doesn't care what we think about it.It's not us they

are talking to..I think they know what they are doing..

[Matts_12GS]

After being on this board for a few years I felt smug owning a BMW (I still do). Now that I also own a Harley (and a Moto Guzzi) I understand what Harley bashing feels like (even though I really never did it).

 

So what is the real problem with Harley haters?

 

Bring it out in the open so I can understand it. It can not just be the motorcycle, the owners, or the life style because I read where some of the posters here like the bikes, not all the owners are "BIKERS", and the life style of all the Harley owners can not be put in one catagory....So what is the "REAL" underlying reason for Harley bashing?

 

Go man, go!!

 

I'm waiting on the answer too because there are many, many people out there riding cruisers (Foreign and domestic) who do wear gear, who do ride their bikes, who are more interested in making functional improvements over aesthetic ones.

 

[Mike]

It's not a messege that is addressed to us or to others who have other brand loyalties..You are looking at this from a narrow point of view and quite frankly H. D. doesn't care what we think about it. It's not us they are talking to..I think they know what they are doing..

 

I think you're 100% correct. They've done a masterful job of reaching out to potential customers. Really, I can't think of any other company in the U.S. or elsewhere that's consistently run its marketing machine as well as Harley-Davidson. That doesn't diminish the fact that it's sometimes goofy.

 

And lest you think I hate 'em, I don't. Great marketing will do a lot for a company, but unless a company is producing an underlying quality product that meets its customers desires, it will ultimately fail. Harleys remain cool bikes, and their marketing approach only enhances their desirability.

[gettysburg]

I believe in tossing a piece of rebar thru the spokes of the next H-D that rides by with loud pipes

[Mike]

I believe in tossing a piece of rebar thru the spokes of the next H-D that rides by with loud pipes

 

That would probably not be cool . . . and it would probably be wise to tone down the rhetoric a bit.

[MadDuck]

We need to all stop calling for any more "regulation" of motorcycles. When they get stock only exhaust, and they will succeed in that in the next couple of years. Step two is already under discussion. Speed governers to keep maximum velocity somewhere the posted limit. The technology exists and the will to use it is being generated. First bill of its kind was introduced a year ago in England. Quiet Harleys and slow BMWS will be the norm. Regulatiors never stop regulating. Guess how many Harley owners will be defending your right to speed.

[philbytx]

Simple reason is that we would be lying if we said that...and they definitely are not!!

[Wyn]

After being on this board for a few years I felt smug owning a BMW (I still do). Now that I also own a Harley (and a Moto Guzzi) I understand what Harley bashing feels like (even though I really never did it).

 

So what is the real problem with Harley haters?

 

Bring it out in the open so I can understand it. It can not just be the motorcycle, the owners, or the life style because I read where some of the posters here like the bikes, not all the owners are "BIKERS", and the life style of all the Harley owners can not be put in one catagory....So what is the "REAL" underlying reason for Harley bashing?

 

It's fun!!! You can bash me. I rode BMW's for many years. Got left handed by an old man at a light and abandoned riding for 24 years. Then I bought a Suzuki V Strom but something was missing. I know, it was my elitest attitude, my smugness, and the comraderie with same.

 

Now I'm back and enjoying every second. Bash away.

 

I still think Harleys suck. Harley folks? Well the only ones that I ever new well dumped their iron horse and got em a BMW!!

 

They are pretty cool though. In fact I was in Daytona this weekend and saw what I always thought was the coolest Harley ever built. I don't know the model but it's soft tail, all black, motor and all. Sweet! Own one? Na, I got enough problems.

 

 

 

ISYHTRAH

[Berkley]

This video made me want to buy a Triumph when I was done watching it. Now that's good marketing. Triumph Rocket

 

[Matts_12GS]

There's enough of us VSTROM owners here that we could start to be an elitist counter-culture!

[Wyn]

There's enough of us VSTROM owners here that we could start to be an elitist counter-culture!

 

I knew those headlights were familiar. For a rice burner V Strom is king! Beyond counter culture!!

 

 

 

ISYHTRAH

[SpaceKing]

I have never heard a Harley guy say anything negative about a BMW guy, or for that matter anything about a BMW motorcycle except "that's a nice bike".

Well, having just seen the Harley "We believe" video, it's like they are asking for ridicule. I thought I was watching a Saturday Night Live parody. Haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Nothing to do with the brand.

Man that is some funny stuff.

cheers

ben

[blkvelvt]

Harley people are nicer than BMW people.

 

I have never heard a Harley guy say anything negative about a BMW guy, or for that matter anything about a BMW motorcycle except "that's a nice bike".

 

Wish I could say the same about BMW people.

 

Obviously you don't live in the real world. I take my BMW to Harley rides and I would swear I have a cloaking device on my bike. Harley Davidson riders look down their noses just like everyone else. Their bikes are just louder.

[JayW]

Individualists of the world - UNITE!!!

[gasser]

http://www.hdforums.com/m_1749727/tm.htm

Check out this thread to see how Harley guys bash other bikes.

[jwurbel]

You call that bashing? I get so tired of these threads re: HD. Ride what you have, whatever it is, and be happy that you can.

[harleyjohn45]

I miss my Harley

 

 

You want mine?

 

 

how about mine. this picture was taken for a mag cover in 1995 at daytona. i've only had it 25 years.

john

 

 

[wolcott]

I believe in tossing a piece of rebar thru the spokes of the next H-D that rides by with loud pipes

 

That would probably not be cool . . . and it would probably be wise to tone down the rhetoric a bit.

 

Gettysbury: Why do you talk crap like that? Making a comment that would obviously injure a fellow biker? As the above poster states, it would be wise to tone down the rhetoric. Happy face or not...

[TowJam]

http://www.hdforums.com/m_1749727/tm.htm

Check out this thread to see how Harley guys bash other bikes.

That's nothing.

 

If you want to see Harley owners bashing Harley, check out this thread! Over 1300 posts to date regarding the the problems (real or not) with the '07 6-speed transmission. Between the transmission issue and the significant heat coming off the '07 twin cams due to the leaner stock tuning, there are a number of Harley owners - and potential owners who are giving metrics a second look.

[DonSydney]

http://www.hdforums.com/m_1749727/tm.htm

Check out this thread to see how Harley guys bash other bikes.

That link must have changed since you read it.... or else they deleted all the ones where they were bashing other bikes.

 

I have a standing bet with my mates over here in Oz.... if they can tell me a Harley joke that I havent heard before, I'll give them a bottle of red wine. The bet has been going for 2 years, and so far its cost me 1 bottle......

 

The reality is that it is rare that you will find Harley owners bashing others rides, although I do agree that there are some HD riders who take themselves wayyyyy too seriously........

 

dc

[gasser]

Bashing--toungue in cheek. I actually thought this was a positive thread. Obviously, the subtlety of my humor was wasted on you.

[tom collins]

don't have to miss it when i can go out into the garage.

 

Tom

[Bill_Walker]

So, Whip, do you have any bets riding on the length of this thread? Good job stirring up the pot!

[Agent86]

I had a Harley once.

Thank GOD for Cary Littell who got me to sell that damn thing and buy a real cross country cruiser.

I miss my Red R1100RT.

 

[iclick]

http://www.hdforums.com/m_1749727/tm.htm

Check out this thread to see how Harley guys bash other bikes.

That's nothing.

 

If you want to see Harley owners bashing Harley, check out this thread! Over 1300 posts to date regarding the the problems (real or not) with the '07 6-speed transmission. Between the transmission issue and the significant heat coming off the '07 twin cams due to the leaner stock tuning, there are a number of Harley owners - and potential owners who are giving metrics a second look.

 

Yes, some are unhappy about the noisy 5th gear, and as the owner of an '07 Street Glide I've participated in this discussion. What needs to be emphasized here is that nobody is having real "problems" with their 6-speeds as you suggest, and the noise can be quelled largely by using a more viscous gear oil. And if you'll read the entire thread you'll see that most don't find it obtrusive, and most won't let it detract from an otherwise very favorable experience.

 

As for your suggestion that "a number of Harley owners - and potential owners who are giving metrics a second look" is true. Maybe two or three in that huge thread have indicated as such, so there truly is "a number." To be fair, go to other threads on that forum that start out "Should I buy an '07," and see how heavily weighted the favorable responses are.

 

As for heat, yes these bikes are leaned excessively to meet EPA standards, but this can be easily fixed with third-party solutions, most of which are not expensive. Some BMW Boxers surge and recent HD's emit heat, so we've all experienced the pitfalls of having an air-cooled MC in a modern environment of clean-air legislation. I consider this a part of the customization process.

[iclick]

There's no doubt that Harley has the market on cool. On our little Maine ride, Dave's Harley beat my BMW ten to one in the compliment department. Consolation, I can blow his door's off at will.

 

...and he probably couldn't care less.

[Couchrocket]

If the cruiser bug bites, find a low milage Honda Valkyrie "Tourer" model. All the comfort of a cruiser, zero vibration at any speed, and gobs of torque and power. I sometimes miss the casual "toss a leg over and go" aspect of cruisers. Loved my Valk.

[iclick]

I see very few people wearing protective clothing in fact there are more Harley riders with a smattering of leather that covers a lot more than the typical biker I see. The only ones wearing proper clothing are squids and that's just because they think they have too. As for waving, if you wave far enough in advance when a cruiser is coming toward you they wave back. They just need a little extra time to see through the bugs in their eyes..... Seriously though, as long as I wave (and I could care less if they wave back) and wave with enough time for someone to respond they almost always wave back. ENOUGH SAID, I DON'T WANT TO SEE ANOTHER "THEY DIDN'T WAVE AT ME" POST!!!!

 

Those who complain should practice what they preach. When I ride I wave at everyone on two wheels, and I amuse myself by predicting the probability that rider will wave back. Over the decades, it works out like this:

 

HD: 95%

Wang: 100% (gotta love these guys)

Sportbikes (except BMW): 50%

BMW: 10%

 

One day recently I came upon a group of about six BMW riders who were in the center lane waiting for a traffic light. I moved to the left-turn lane and looked over at them and waved...right next to them! Not only did no one wave, but they refused to even look at me. Why is this necessary? If I saw these people at the library I dare say they would treat me as an individual, not predicated on what color tie I wore, what model of car I drive, or other superficial criterion.

 

I have two good friends who ride GS's and ride with our Harley group regularly. They see this acrimony in some of their fellow BMW riders and claim they don't understand it, and I can only hope this attitude dysfunction consumes only a minority of riders, regardless of denomination.

[TEWKS]

Consolation, I can blow his door's off at will.

 

...and he probably couldn't care less.

 

Lighten up iclick, see the smile at the end of the statement. That would mean its a joke. Ha..Ha try it, it's fun.

 

Pat

[iclick]

Yeah. That there is a perfect example of one of the main reasons I got rid of my Road King. It was a great bike for a slow, easy, sightseeing ride. But I couldn't buy in to the religion, and I always felt out of place with Harley people.

 

That, and the thing wallowed like a pig in 75 mph sweepers.

 

I don't know what kind of HD folks you were riding with, but I know of none that won't gladly welcome a BMW rider to a group ride. Further, they couldn't care less about coaxing riders of other brands to "buy into the religion," whatever that means.

 

As for your "wallowing" Road King, some bikers don't want to go 75 in the sweepers and prefer a more laid-back riding style. If you want to ride in a sporting manner a cruiser is probably a bad choice for you. I just traded a '96 Road King that I rode 106k miles through 33 states, and never felt it was holding me back from enjoying anything. In fact, of all the bikes I've owned since 1966 it was the best of the lot for my type of riding. If you try, it's really easy to get along with others who practice a variation on a common interest, and there is no need to "fit in" to a group or "buy into a religion."

 

After all, it's not what you ride, but that ride.

[iclick]

After being on this board for a few years I felt smug owning a BMW (I still do). Now that I also own a Harley (and a Moto Guzzi) I understand what Harley bashing feels like (even though I really never did it).

 

So what is the real problem with Harley haters?

 

Bring it out in the open so I can understand it. It can not just be the motorcycle, the owners, or the life style because I read where some of the posters here like the bikes, not all the owners are "BIKERS", and the life style of all the Harley owners can not be put in one catagory....So what is the "REAL" underlying reason for Harley bashing?

 

Great question. I have two friends who ride GS's and regularly participate in our group rides comprised largely of HD's. One has owned 35 MC's over 35 years and has never owned a Harley, but one day last February rented an '07 Road King with an open mind and to my surprise actually liked it. In fact, he's thinking about buying one, although I can't see him abandoning his sportbike roots. I simply call that being multifaceted.

 

The other is a died-in-the-wool BMW rider, but likes HD's for what they are. Neither of these guys will hesitate riding in a group of Harley owners, nor will they participate in mindless brand bashing. Neither understand the mindset of some of their friends who take bashing to a vitriolic level. The guy who rented the Road King mentioned to a BMW-riding friend that he liked it very much and was considering a purchase. His friend's response was "I can't believe you'd even consider buying something like that." Well, is it a sin or transgression for him to admit he liked the bike? If nothing else, give him credit for being open-minded.

 

 

[W. Mazelin]

If you haven't bought another one, do you really miss it that much? Cash is king, baby.

[blkvelvt]

[quote

HD: 95%

Wang: 100% (gotta love these guys)

Sportbikes (except BMW): 50%

BMW: 10%

 

 

Where do you get this rocket science data? In your mind obviously

I ride with a mixed group of bikes and we all wave. What you are saying about BMW riders is very stereotypical. I just came back from a three day rally put on by two BMW clubs and it was open to all makes of bikes. I didn't hear anyone give instructions not to wave at oncoming riders. Your immature global comment has no substance except in your own mind. (If I hurt your feelings, don't worry. I'll still wave to you. I ride a BMW)

[Wyn]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. This was a Harley bashing thread wasen't it? Not Harley riders, owners, just iron horse hawgs, right? Not who's waving. Just Harley's period.

Please let's tone it down a little!

 

 

 

ISYHTRAH

[iclick]

HD: 95%

Wang: 100% (gotta love these guys)

Sportbikes (except BMW): 50%

BMW: 10%

 

Where do you get this rocket science data? In your mind obviously

 

Unfortunately, it is true. No, it is not scientific research, but the numbers are representative of fact based on my experiences mostly in this location. Yours may vary, and your group may be among the 10%. If so, kudos to you guys. Now, let's work on the other 90%, and the non-wavers among other brands.

[iclick]

Consolation, I can blow his door's off at will.

...and he probably couldn't care less.

Lighten up iclick, see the smile at the end of the statement. That would mean its a joke. Ha..Ha try it, it's fun.

 

So noted, but the smiley could be construed as enjoyment that you can "blow his doors off," and there are some people who find this important. I don't denigrate them, but am just acknowledging they exist, and that some simply don't care if they can outrun anyone or not.

[iclick]

It's just a big party favor.

Look, I apoligise to those out there who have Harleys and know how to ride them. Perhaps I'm off base and out of line but it seems to me that most who buy Harleys just want to be cool (lemmings). I've known to many owners who have regretted owning one. I've talked to folks on em and walked away thinking, Geez, that guy shouldn't be on a bike, period. I've riden to many bone shakers and Harley takes the cake. To me it's the whole "Look at me, I ride a Harley!" I know there are exceptions to the rule and you are probabley the ones reading this.

 

Some do buy them to look cool. Most of us buy them because we like the feel and/or the styling. I confess the compliments I get on the bike are pleasing, but its not the reason I ride what I ride.

 

[eor]

It seems as if every time I have sold a Harley I am initially happy, but after spending a few days exclusively on another bike I find myself missing the change of pace that a Harley provides me.

 

I like the bikes for what they are but have issues with the "lifestyle" mentality that H-D has marketed so successfully. Other than a fondness for the bikes themselves, I find that I have little in common with many of the Harley riders I meet. I'm not particularly fond of chrome and don't like loud pipes. I'm not interested in going to large rallies or riding as part of a group. I don't think that I dress or look like other Harley riders and I'm know I'm always wearing more protective gear.

 

I'm a very independent person [some would describe me as a loner] and while I'm certainly no slave to peer validation, being the odd man out does get a bit tiring at times.

 

I usually try to keep to myself so that I don't have to answer the inevitable questions about why my Harley is so quiet, whether I get hot in the helmet or jacket, or if I'm on my way to the HOG or whatever rally. I know that a lot of times people are just trying to make friendly conversation and I try not to sound condescending or arrogant but my perspective is so different I don't think I can be honest without being perceived in that way.

 

I'll see Harley riders doing something really stupid or annoying and decide that I am going to get rid of mine so as not to be associated with them...until I go put on the iPod and spend an afternoon riding by myself in the mountains at a subdued pace.

 

It really is a love/hate relationship with the brand.

 

Right now I own a Road King and a 1200GS. I'm really interested in a 1200RT but I'm not letting the GS go anytime soon. That means I'd have to sell the Road King...and that I'd have to buy yet another Harley.

[Wyn]

Let's end this. It's a revolving door. We live to ride. We ride to live. Two is better than four. See you on the road.

 

 

 

ISYHTRFW