Urgent: R12RT Head Bolt / Stud Failure.....Advice Needed.

[lthj75]

I attempted to get my hands wet with DIY maintenance today and went to tackle my 6K service. All was going well until I removed the left side cover. As soon as I took it off, it was glaringly apparent that something was not right. The bottom head bolt / stud was backed out almost 1/2" more that it should be and the nut was at the end of the stud (the cover stopped it from backing all the way off:

 

 

I called the dealer who was VERY responsive and sent a trailer to pick her up at my house within 2 hours.

 

 

I just got a call and they said the head bolt stripped the block and that metal shavings came out when they pulled the stud. (Note: bike is at the dealer who performed the 600 mile service) Per the tech, the plan of attack is a time-sert (which he described as an upgrade and said the factory would have them on every bike if money was no object). He said if its too stripped, I'll need a new block.

 

My questions:

 

1) Is the time-sert an acceptable fix or should I call BMW and fight for a new block?

 

2) If they tear it down and replace the block, what are the risks to be aware of besides relying on them to rebuild and torque everything to spec?

 

3) Should I be concerned about the metal shavings? How many ended up in my engine when they pulled the stud.....

 

4) What would cause this to happen???

 

5) What other advice do you have?

 

Today was rather disappointing.....I'm rather bummed.

[GregB]

Time-Sert is fine. Properly installed it will be stronger than original. An improvent on the time proven Helicoil, it requires a little less skill to install properly.

[duckbubbles]

Was this the first time that the valve cover has been removed since the dealer did the 600 mile check? I might submit that rather than new crankcases, a new engine might be more economically feasible.

I am not familiar with time-serts. I suppose that they are similar to Heli-coils. A Heli-coil can be stronger than the original as they are steel threads of a larger diameter than the original screw/stud, giving more grip area in the base part. That can be an acceptable fix.

But if the bike is really new, I think I would push for a new engine.

 

Frank

[lthj75]

Was this the first time that the valve cover has been removed since the dealer did the 600 mile check? I might submit that rather than new crankcases, a new engine might be more economically feasible.

I am not familiar with time-serts. I suppose that they are similar to Heli-coils. A Heli-coil can be stronger than the original as they are steel threads of a larger diameter than the original screw/stud, giving more grip area in the base part. That can be an acceptable fix.

But if the bike is really new, I think I would push for a new engine.

 

Frank

 

Yes....FIRST time the valve covers were removed since the 600 mile service was done by the dealer....

 

Time-sert is as you described....6700 miles on the 2006 bike

[Ken H.]

As others have mentioned, it's a perfectly acceptable method of repair.

 

ISFA stray shavings, they of course will do an oil change, and beyond that, that's what oil filters are for.

[smiller]

Either somebody screwed up during original assembly or when the head bolts were re-torqued at the 600-mile service (most likely the latter.) The time-sert will be more than fine if properly installed. It's unlikely that the damage will be such that a time-sert can't be installed but if so I would insist on an entire short block replacement.

[E30TECH]

I saw this first hand today. I'm the one who rode 100 miles to hold the tape measure and take the action shots.

 

I was wondering if there is a stress crack in the block by the threads due to a porosity in the casting (assuming the block is infact a cast).

 

I would like to know the how before the repair takes place. Understood (and agreed) that a threaded insert should suffice, but on a brand new $20K bike, I would be a little up-f-ing-set.

 

Would it be possible to pull BMWNA into this? What recourse is there in a situation like this? Maybe trade for a new 1200, or put a short block in as a good faith type decision?

 

 

For those who dont know what a timesert is, here is a pic

 

[Tony_K]

Casesaver is another affectionate term used also.

As the dearler said this is a quality upgrage and prefered method to retain studs. They hold much better.

 

Ride on.

[lthj75]

Thanks all.....I guess a time sert is OK....only IF....that that is a IF I need answered.....the cause was over-torquing.....if it was faulty material on the block, then I have a bigger issue.

 

I think as E30tech suggested, I will involve BMW of America on Monday. This really sucks.

[smiller]

if it was faulty material on the block, then I have a bigger issue.

I think that is fairly improbable, more likely by far is a simple over-torque during the 600-mile service. Yes, it does suck for sure, but in all likelihood they will be able to pull the cylinder, install a time-sert, and you will be as good as new... so there's reason to be optimistic that this soon will just be a bad memory and nothing more. Hang in there...

[E30TECH]

more likely by far is a simple over-torque during the 600-mile service

 

And these are the same folks fixing it.

 

Assume they did over torque it during the 600 mile service - would the tech have known and just left it?

[Rich06FJR1300]

ahhh! i just saw this post...i know both riders. I was putting the finishing touches on my FJR (picked up the parts from the dealer) that a certain rider well, for lack of a better term...damaged about a month ago HAHA! sorry Larry...and now i see this? very bizarre and never have seen anything like this especially on a new RT. You may luck out a get a brand new bike or motor out of this right? I see this kind of stuff happening more and more at dealers....its almost like i'll have to do my own services from now on.

[smiller]

Assume they did over torque it during the 600 mile service - would the tech have known and just left it?

Well, to be fair that is nothing but speculation on my part, and only because the other explanations (materials defect or assembly error) are considerably less likely causes. If the bolt was over-torqued it's hard to say why it was left that way. It could have been starting to go and the tech just didn't feel it, or the threads could have been weakened and failed later.

 

But even if it was the dealer's fault one can only beat them about the head about it so much as they can't go back in time and prevent the error. What they can do now is try to make it right and it sounds like they are doing so.

[E30TECH]

Post deleted by E30TECH

[JustKrusen]

So if they over torqued 1 bolt what did they do to the rest?????????????????????????????

[lthj75]

So if they over torqued 1 bolt what did they do to the rest?????????????????????????????

 

Exactly....this scares the heck out of me, but with all of the positive posts here - I am doing my best to remain positive.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

This has happened a couple of times to my knowledge. Every time it has been because the original stud was not threaded to full depth at the factory. Sufficient thread engagement to handle the initial (likely lesser) torque used to assemble the motor.

 

The second tightening of the head studs is not really done with a torque wrench except to go to the initial value and then the nut is turned an additional 180 degrees. It does take some muscle to get that degree of stretch in the studs.

 

I'll bet a good ham sandwich that, upon disassembly, the lower threads in the stud hole will be found to be intact with the uppers pulled out. A sure sign the stud wasn't properly seated to begin with.

 

As to BMWNA, they are involved, they pay for all warranty repairs. I really would insist on inspection of the components once it was all torn apart. Depending on how much material came with the stud, a Time cert may not provide a good final solution.