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What are cops for - public safety, or tax collection


beagle

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Here in Michigan every ticket except drag racing, drugs and alcohol are negotiable when you go to court. Truth be told, all they want is the money, they could care less about the points or so called public safety. Last week we had the big “Click It or Ticket” dog and pony show where the tax collectors were pulling over every bubba who didn’t buckle up. I was especially annoyed as I saw a line of cops looking at the truck in front of me, and not batting an eye at the lumber that wasn’t tied down on the flat bed. He was wearing his seat belt – no problem. Me, I’m not wearing mine, but I’m on the RT so I’m ok too. How did all 6 cops on the side of the road miss the 2x4’s? I find it almost humorous that one can be given a ticket for failing to shift a lane when a cop is giving a ticket, yet as a motorcyclist, the cops could care less about me. I’m not saying a Cops life is worth less than mine, or that I wish ill will on anyone, but I would like to think that as a tax paying member of society, and one who by default is paying the cops salary, our lives are equal.

 

With this rant in mind, I have 2 questions, the first is for all the cops on this board, the second is for everyone.

 

Law enforcement: can you generate as much revenue enforcing tailgating, unsafe loads in and on the bed of trucks, and equipment violations such as hanging mufflers as you can writing 10mph over tickets?

 

The rest of us – Do you feel that Cops are spending too much time as tax collectors and not enough making the roads safer for all the 2 wheelers out there?

 

BTW - My DL is clean - I don't have an axe to grind

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While I have never liked paying a ticket, I deserved every one I got and then some.

 

I admire all those who are willing to be LEOs. They put their life on the line often. They are highly trained, professional and courteous (for the most part) and I have never felt "picked on" for any reason.

 

I believe that we are under staffed by State Police in this part of Southern Illinois. I would like to see more officers on the road. Some nights there is only one for two or more counties and that isn't enough, IMO.

 

I wish their motorcycle unit had protective gear to wear, but that's my opinion.

 

Enforcement policy comes from the top down. If you don't like it, call your state representative and complain. All state departments in Illinois are reactive when a legislative member calls, after all, their funding is voted on each year by the legislature.

 

I've got no beef with DUI checkpoints, seat belt enforcement or speed enforcement. In fact, I think DUI checkpoints serve a legitimate purpose of keeping intoxicated drivers off the road which is a great way to lower deaths. I'm in favor of much more strict DUI laws than we have. Then again, I refuse to ride my bike after drinking alcohol. I won't ride with those that I know have been drinking. Not worth the risk to me as riding a bike takes all of one's cognitive capacities.

 

My .02 YMWV

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In Flordia , tailgating would be 115.50, most of us don't do a speeding ticket unless its at least 15 over which is 180.50, some of us wait until they are 20 over which is 205.50. The click it or ticket thing is nationwide. It's not a $ thing for most depts because the $ goes to the state general fund and a very small percent goes back to the city or county general fund that it came from. Seat belts are 71.50 The traffic judges where I am give the points if you've gotten a previous ticket in a year. (shouldn't people that drive in such a way that they are getting stopped twice or more a year pay more for insurance than you or I?)

With the agencies predominent budget coming from property taxes, there is little to no concern that ticket money is needed. I have been there 17 yrs and have never heard of a quota except on tv and aggitated drivers. There is no supervisor looking over my shoulder right now to censor me about hidden super secret money making quotas, why would I say such a thing? unless it was just that simple. No conspiracy, no gimmicks. How often have you seen some driving you wish you could do something about? I do too! When I'm off duty with my kids in the car. This motivates me to go back to work and actually DO something about it. 10 over is cheesy but I guess some cops do it. The seat belt thing is just a given. Every year we have to do it. It's no fun believe me. Many times during these waves, other stuff is let go so that the officer can quickly get back to finding somebody un-buckled because at the end of the wave you should have some seat belt tickets. All I can say is, try it for a day. No joke- ride with an officer for a day, he'll act and do the same things he always does despite you sitting next to him. It's only one day and for the rest of your life you'll KNOW first hand what goes on, what it feels like just to be in a cruiser driving around, responding to calls etc. This all may be irrelavant because you live in a very different place than I do so there may be some big differences. Anyway, sorry to ramble on and good luck to you in getting some good feedback from decent leo's. Some of us do remember that we are ladies and gentlemen serving ladies and gentlemen. thumbsup.gif

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In the last month, we've had this discussion ... twice.

 

Agreed. Last time. Anyone wants to start another of these threads, there are already plenty of them for you to post your opinion.

 

Speaking of which, having two LEO stepsons, I know it's not about the money for them, nor their departments. Simply put, that is not their charge. It is, however, the charge of city/county/state government to levy and manage the tax moneys coming in. As such, I'm sure they see citations more as a source of revenue than as a safety issue/danger-deterrent.

 

This leads to the question, if this is the case then why doesn't city/county/state management just demand more citations. Truth is, they can't. People, right or wrong, get pissed off when they get a ticket. More pissed off people is not politically healthy. However, the same number of people even more pissed off is politically survivable. Therefore government CAN AND DOES double fines, adds fees, surcharges, etc. in order to enhance its coffers, turning a $150 violation into $400 - $600.

 

So as I see it, to government, traffic enforcement is about revenue. To the police/sheriff/highway patrol, traffic enforcement is about safety. A broad stroke, no doubt, but one I'm generally comfortable making.

 

Seems to me, the cops take the brunt of the abuse, both verbally and image-wise, because they're our point-of-contact when we are cited. The people we should REALLY be pissed off at are sitting in air-conditioned offices collecting honorariums for their next breakfast speech in front of the Coalition of Cement Contractors.

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I have no beef about my last ticket 8 years ago. I deserved it. I own a fleet of trucks, and we are under the watchful eye of LEO's all the time. Not a problem, we do it right. My beef is the with the revenue aspect of the whole thing. Damn near everyone I know who has been pulled over and went to court was able to plea down to a no point, same fine for court cost sentance. Ok, you've paid your debt. But what is pissing me off is the fact that I can go past a Radar site with a car so close behind me the the driver can count the hairs on my neck, and nothing happens. I really don't think that the state reps can help. Bike friendly members will go to an AMA rally for the potential votes, but that's it. Maybe it's time for a few sherriff's and police chiefs to take to the road on two wheels, and put their butt's on the line. Then and only then will they consider our situation. I have to think that if a Chief had a muffler fall off the un-roadworthy POS in fromt of him and he totaled his 20000 ride, and spend some time in plaster there'd be a new policy. THis same line of thinking goes out to the road commisions and the cold patch/tar snake people. I wonder if the raods would be better if the powers that be spent time on 2 wheels.

 

Before anyone gets bent out of shape and says i'm a cop hater - I'm not. I have all the respect in the world for any cop on the street.They are doing what they are told. It's the ones in the big offices that worry me. They're too removed from the real world. Same thing can be said for the road workers. They're just doing what they are told.

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In fact, I think DUI checkpoints serve a legitimate purpose of keeping intoxicated drivers off the road which is a great way to lower deaths.

Question: what's your sentiment on roadblocks that are said to be "DUI checkpoints" being employed to zap people for other things, like belts, burnt out bulbs, etc.?

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This whole notion that cops are tax collectors, or that speeding tickets are revenue generators, is old, foolish, and completely without merit. I looked up the town budget here locally and found that traffic tickets account for 1/2 of one per cent of the town income. If the local police stopped giving out tickets tomorrow, it would not affect the towns income whatsoever.

 

No I am not a cop, but for the right money I would play one on TV. And I haven't had a ticket in 17 years, even though my daily driver car can do 155 mph (M5).

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That is not entirely true in my experience... two cases I hold up in contradiction to that (albeit not representative of the majority of law enforcement departments, I am sure)...

 

1. Take US 220 into South Western Virginia... between Rocky Mount and Roanoke, there is a sleepy town where the four lane highway goes through named Boones Mill... the town has a population of maybe 500 and they have a full time police officer who writes so many tickets, that the town gives him a very nice police vehicle to chase unsuspecting out of state drivers for going 3-4 mph over the 45 speed limit. His old car was a Z28 Camaro and last I heard, he now has a 400 HP Pontiac GTO, discreetly marked. Last I read, he had racked up for the city's coffers over 100,000 grand in tickets/fines... and that was over 7 years ago.

 

2. Small town of Duncan SC... nearby I-85 between Greenville and Spartanburg... about 10-15 years ago, city limits were a mile plus from the interstate and the interchange at the town's exit... new business came in at the on ramps and off ramps and lo, and behold, the town annexed the interchange area... what next? City police officers parked on either side of the crest of the hill under the bridge tagging drivers both ways (which, the speed limit there is a ridiculously low 60 mph on a six lane interstate)... Duncan, a town of maybe 2,000 has some really nice police cars (A black Tahoe among them, used to chase down speeders). And an old abandoned truck weigh station now turned into SCDOT Roadside Assistance Center is THE choice place for them to hang out, getting traffic moving south to Greenville... let me tell you it is real fun to be riding along on the RT and see a sea of red brake lights light up in front of me, drivers panicking at the sight of the Duncan police officer, sitting under the tree there in his Impala, looking for the next guy to pull over. Of course, I know he is there and plan my following distance, but the thing that goes through my mind is this... this speed trap (and that is what it is... 60 mph?... flow of traffic is at least 10 plus over that... any riding near the speed limit WILL get you killed in due time on that stretch of interstate)... is a safety concern. I wonder if there has been any accidents because of them staking out there... probably has been, if I were to guess. I have been through that town enough to see that the city police officers spend an inordinate amount of time parked on that interstate.

 

These are two of my experiences...

 

Yours may vary...

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p_interceptor

I will say it again,,,,

 

The one thing I have learned in 39 years as a Florida State Trooper --- "everyone wants the traffic laws strictly enforced for everyone but themselves."

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Well as others have mentioned the whole revenue vs. public safety horse has been thoroughly beaten to death...

 

Beagle your profile says you are in Detroit and I know a lot of weird things go on over there but I can tell you that here on the west side of the state our District Court Judges/Magistrates flat out tell violators at their hearing that the points are assessed by the Secretary of State not them and that they cannot change them. They don't change fines at all either. It is pay up now, pay on a payment plan they set up right then, or wait for your bench warrant (oh, and unlike DPD we lock people up on traffic bench warrants here ;-)

 

Kicker is here Officers are subpoened to appear on traffic citations so they belief that if the Officer doesn't show you get off doesn't even apply. Here if the Officer doesn't show he gets disciplined.

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BTW... I don't have an axe to grind
lmao.giflmao.giflmao.gif

 

I agree with your assessment about LEO's not ticketing people for having debris and other stuff falling out (off) of their vehicle, but frankly I don't think it's that easy to enforce. In all the years I've been driving/riding I can only think of a hand full of times I've actually witnessed something coming out of a vehicle. Now compare that with every time I drive down the highway I'll see people tooling along 15+ mph over the limit and tailgating the next vehicle until they get out of their way.

 

If you want change you have to complain - and the more people you can get to join in and the louder your voice the greater the chance of getting that change. I figure if there were MUCH stiffer fines then I'd expect the contractors and pro's who make their living hauling stuff would make a more concerted effort to secure their loads. But this wouldn't do anything to deter those without a clue - these are the dolts who don't recognize a mattress becomes a sail at 80 mph and that the twine they used to secure it just ain't gonna hold. eek.gif

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Lets_Play_Two

"And I haven't had a ticket in 17 years, even though my daily driver car can do 155 mph (M5)."

 

Sounds like a waste of all that horsepower!! grin.gif

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90RedRider

I think it IS a revenue thing . No the cop on the road does not set that policy , but that does not mean we should not be pissed about it. They are just OUR point of contact with the system.

Years ago when this started , in Fla. , It was a $22 ticket and they were to only give it if they stopped you for something else. Now IT can be the reason they stop you and it is a $150 ticket.

For me this is the logic why I am against too many gun laws , Once they get started they just creep up and roll over you. The public is too into personal problems to try to rein govt back in.

For all you people that deserved that ticket you got , good for you to look at it that way. I am a good driver that occasionally goes faster than a posted limit. But with all the crappy drivers out there , I don't think I ever deserve a ticket. This was years ago , while getting a ticket on a country road with little traffic , I was complaining . The officer was nice, they almost always are , said don't feel bad . Out on the interstate " they are giving them for 4 mph over today. THAT would have really pissed me off.

Enuff I guess.

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I wasn't going to get sucked into this thread, but here goes.

 

It just ocurred to me that when LEOs stop a driver for any seemingly "minor" offense, it's used as an opportunity to check the driver for other "irregularities" such as no licence, no insurance, outstanding warrants, etc.

 

I believe law enforcement agencies simply call this good policing, and many fugitives have been identified and arrested as the result of being stopped for a minor infraction.

 

So while we can all whine and complain about being stopped for speeding on a remote, rural highway with no living creature in sight, the LEOs are simply doing their job - enforcing a law (that many of us disagree with), but they are also using the opportunity to screen for anything out of the ordinary that might tune them into other illegal actavities.

 

I don't think traffic enforcement is simply a matter of enforcing a straight forward law. The world isn't black and white. Law enforcement is a complex activity, and when LEOs stop us for these minor infractions, they are simply exercising their due diligence.

 

Off the soap box now. . .

 

Regards.

 

Tim

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Maybe because there is something to it?

 

Oh I do think there is something to it. And as far as I'm concerned, we've discussed that "something." If somebody has something new to add beyond the topics we've discussed, great. I'm sure the OP simply didn't realize that these topics have already had a lot of very recent press: civilian resentment, police innocence, bad apples & speed traps, city balance sheets (both actual and speculative), the link (if any) between safety and speed, and the lack of skill among drivers in general (nobody here of course). I'm sure I missed something in the list.

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motorman587
In the last month, we've had this discussion ... twice.

 

Maybe because there is something to it?????

 

Something to what?? You do not see post popping up from LEOs, going, hey, we need more money, lets go write some tickets.

 

Click or ticket is about getting people to buckle up. There is education, and then enforcement. There is always an article about a fatal where the person is ejected, not buckle up. So I do not see the connection to money and ticket writing.

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GoGo Gadget
That is not entirely true in my experience... two cases .

.

....there is a sleepy town .

.

.

2. Small town of Duncan SC...

 

 

Key point there. Small towns. A small town with a very low tax base may view traffic enforcement as a revenue generator. I laugh at violators who use that arguement on me at a stop. With a 5 billion dollar budget, my county does not care how many tickets I write. Had a little old lady who WAS going to get a warning talk herself into a ticket when she used the Q word. dopeslap.gif

 

So does Detroit or the State of Florida look at tickets as revenue? No.

 

Does Bumfuk Tennessee see it as a revenue generator? They very well might.

 

I can't tell you how much the fine or points are for various tickets off the top of my head. I don't care, since that is not why they are written around here. I can tell you how many motorist died on the local highways last year. Because THAT is important.

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wrestleantares
Here in Michigan every ticket except drag racing, drugs and alcohol are negotiable when you go to court. Truth be told, all they want is the money, they could care less about the points or so called public safety.

 

After having read an interesting article recently on just this subject I believe I should comment. That is not the impression that I have of the system anymore.

 

The article was focusing on the court situation. Over 700 people were at traffic court that day. It is logistiacally very difficult to get driving records reviewed on that many people and differentiate between habitual offenders (that need points suspensions. etc.)and the guy/gal that has been driving ten years with no tickets, etc.

 

Then they offenders can demand a jury trial. Which totally screws the court system as they are trying to just make that an outlet for the difficult cases.

 

It is not that they do not want to protect the public safety, it is that they are so overwhelmed that dealing with each case judiciously becomes an impossibility.

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Dave McReynolds

It's kind of pathetic for a motorcycle board to waste time talking about traffic tickets; as far as anyone in any position to do anything about it is concerned, we are nothing but a lunatic fringe who would object to any effort to restrict our suicidal impulses.

 

What I would like to see, and most motorists too, I think, is more enforcement effort put into controlling gravel flying off trucks and other things flying off trucks in general. I don't know anyone who hasn't had a cracked windshield from flying gravel, probably more than once, and if you call the number on the truck, they just play dumb. The only motorcycle accident I've actually witnessed from start to finish was a guy on a Gold Wing who ran over a 4X4 on the freeway and fell off his bike. If he had managed to stay on, he probably would have been okay, as the bike continued on without him and eventually parked (!) itself against the freeway median barrier without ever falling completely over.

 

So if we can't beat 'em, join 'em! Let's raise the fines enough on improperly secured loads of any kind that it will get the attention of whoever is responsible for directing the activities of our LEO's.

 

I feel sorry for the LEO's taking the brunt of this, as I know they would rather just do their jobs without hearing a lot of guff about revenue generation. But life being what it is, money is the mother's milk of politics, and that ain't likely to change anytime soon.

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Maybe I jumped in late but equipment violations such as loose mufflers are fix-it tickets which are dismissed upon proof of correction. No revenue collection there.

As a participant in many "click it or ticket" campaigns I can tell you I usually positioned myself at a four-way stop sign intersection. With the sun behind me to illuminate the the drivers side of the car, I could clearly see if the belt was across the left shoulder or not. The cars coming to a stop also helped my "look" into the car. During such enforcement activity, I would usually punch out 30-35 $95 tickets during a shift. Even better results could be obtained on mild days when drivers rolled their windows down for fresh air. When it was hot or cold, windows up caused reflections and the belt violations was harder to see. Tinted windows also create difficulties in seeing a violation but fortunately tinted front side windows are illegal in California. Many unbelted drivers "casually" scratched their necks in a failed attempt to prevent me from seeing their belts were off. I can also tell you that the enforcement campaigns were conducted through grants obtained through the state of California Office of Traffic Safety. As such, all officers working solely on click or ticket enforcement were working on overtime on their day off. The county collects the fines and none of the money went to the city I worked for. I recall reading somewhere that seat belt compliance in California is around 91% and leads the rest of the nation.

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Dave McReynolds

As a participant in many "click it or ticket" campaigns

 

Did the irony ever strike you of being a motor cop in a "click it or ticket" campaign? Not that any of us would want seat-belts on our motorcycles, but I would imagine those drivers were probably at less risk in their cars without seatbelts than you or I are on our motorcycles....

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motorman587
As a participant in many "click it or ticket" campaigns

 

Did the irony ever strike you of being a motor cop in a "click it or ticket" campaign? Not that any of us would want seat-belts on our motorcycles, but I would imagine those drivers were probably at less risk in their cars without seatbelts than you or I are on our motorcycles....

 

Reminds me of a stop once were the guy wanted to argue about his seatbelt ticket, stated that I did not have one either, of course I was on the motor. lmao.gif

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In Flordia , tailgating would be 115.50, most of us don't do a speeding ticket unless its at least 15 over which is 180.50, some of us wait until they are 20 over which is 205.50. The click it or ticket thing is nationwide. It's not a $ thing for most depts because the $ goes to the state general fund and a very small percent goes back to the city or county general fund that it came from. Seat belts are 71.50 The traffic judges where I am give the points if you've gotten a previous ticket in a year. (shouldn't people that drive in such a way that they are getting stopped twice or more a year pay more for insurance than you or I?)

With the agencies predominent budget coming from property taxes, there is little to no concern that ticket money is needed. I have been there 17 yrs and have never heard of a quota except on tv and aggitated drivers. There is no supervisor looking over my shoulder right now to censor me about hidden super secret money making quotas, why would I say such a thing? unless it was just that simple. No conspiracy, no gimmicks. How often have you seen some driving you wish you could do something about? I do too! When I'm off duty with my kids in the car. This motivates me to go back to work and actually DO something about it. 10 over is cheesy but I guess some cops do it. The seat belt thing is just a given. Every year we have to do it. It's no fun believe me. Many times during these waves, other stuff is let go so that the officer can quickly get back to finding somebody un-buckled because at the end of the wave you should have some seat belt tickets. All I can say is, try it for a day. No joke- ride with an officer for a day, he'll act and do the same things he always does despite you sitting next to him. It's only one day and for the rest of your life you'll KNOW first hand what goes on, what it feels like just to be in a cruiser driving around, responding to calls etc. This all may be irrelavant because you live in a very different place than I do so there may be some big differences. Anyway, sorry to ramble on and good luck to you in getting some good feedback from decent leo's. Some of us do remember that we are ladies and gentlemen serving ladies and gentlemen. thumbsup.gif

When you see how some of these retard cagers drive. bncry.gifI hope all you LEO guy just keep on keepen on.Thank you.

clap.gif

dave

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As a participant in many "click it or ticket" campaigns

 

Did the irony ever strike you of being a motor cop in a "click it or ticket" campaign? Not that any of us would want seat-belts on our motorcycles, but I would imagine those drivers were probably at less risk in their cars without seatbelts than you or I are on our motorcycles....

Yes, I consider ourselves very fortunate that we don't have to wear seatbelts on motorcycles. I guess you could say our helmets are our seatbelts. Interesting point though, why are motorcyles legal when motorcycles are riskier than unbelted cage drivers? In a LEO setting, they are simply an enforcement tool able to do things a car cop cannot do.

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wrestleantares
Interesting point though, why are motorcycles legal when motorcycles are riskier than unbelted cage drivers? In a LEO setting, they are simply an enforcement tool able to do things a car cop cannot do.

 

Okay, that's enough - this thread has officially gone too far.

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Maybe I jumped in late but equipment violations such as loose mufflers are fix-it tickets which are dismissed upon proof of correction.

 

I would check that fact. I could have sworn I just heard that fix-it tickets now carry a fine. I friend was cited for illegal tint on his car windows. Where formerly he'd have to have it removed and that would be the end of it, he was also dinged with a fine.

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It's kind of pathetic for a motorcycle board to waste time talking about traffic tickets

 

more enforcement effort put into controlling gravel flying off trucks and other things flying off trucks in general. The only motorcycle accident I've actually witnessed from start to finish was a guy on a Gold Wing who ran over a 4X4 on the freeway and fell off his bike.

 

So if we can't beat 'em, join 'em! Let's raise the fines enough on improperly secured loads of any kind that it will get the attention of whoever is responsible for directing the activities of our LEO's.

 

I feel sorry for the LEO's taking the brunt of this

 

This is what I'm talking about. In all honesty, I could give a rat's ass about speeding tickets, or quotas. This debate will rage on with Coke Vs. Pepsi and Bud vs Miller. I own a fleet of trucks, and we are subject to the federal code. (which, by the way, the govenment is not) a lot of it IS about safety, but some of it is pure BS. I think that all cars and trucks should be under the same rules. My trailers need safety chains and a pin on the hitch, Last year, I was passed by a trailer that came off at a light. If I was killed by that trailer, what would happen to the driver? Just read the AMA mag to find out. If you injure a cop or construction worker, you're in deep doo doo. I don't thing raising hell with politicians makes a difference until one of them is injured or the voters respond with a electoral threat. We're the fringe, and they don't care. Our only hope is that LEO's tell their peers to keep an open eye for unsafe cars, tailgaters, and other crap that seems to be petty to a car, but not to a bike. In short, I want the LEO's to enforce every law, not just the easy ones.

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Interesting results of a DUI safety check point run in Carson City, NV

 

http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20070530/NEWS/105300093

 

Seems the drunks are smarter than many...

 

(and yes, this stop did do a public safety service.)

Yes, but in the interest of accuracy the practice should be renamed 'Fishing Expedition Checkpoint' instead of 'DUI Safety Checkpoint.' But then again, what's in a name..? wink.gif

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Click or ticket is about getting people to buckle up.

 

So, when I see a cop drive by, without his seat belt on, should I pull him over? And give him a ticket?

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Interesting results of a DUI safety check point run in Carson City, NV

 

http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20070530/NEWS/105300093

 

Seems the drunks are smarter than many...

 

(and yes, this stop did do a public safety service.)

Yes, but in the interest of accuracy the practice should be renamed 'Fishing Expedition Checkpoint' instead of 'DUI Safety Checkpoint.' But then again, what's in a name..? wink.gif

Actually, drunk driving in the area is a problem. Normally these stops are publicized in advance on TV, radio, and newspaper. Obviously the word got out to the alcohol abusing folks. Makes one wonder why anyone is caught.

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Actually, drunk driving in the area is a problem.
I didn't mean to insinuate that DUI enforcement is undesirable, just that if the purpose of the checkpoint is DUI enforcement then that is the offense that should be targeted. I can see why police would have to act on lack of a valid license, or other serious offenses that may be legally discovered, but using the opportunity to enforce nanny laws seems inappropriate.
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Paul Mihalka

I think the title of this thread is wrong. The police's job is is not public safety or tax collection. It is law enforcement. Public safety is just one of the results.

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As a participant in many "click it or ticket" campaigns

 

Did the irony ever strike you of being a motor cop in a "click it or ticket" campaign? Not that any of us would want seat-belts on our motorcycles, but I would imagine those drivers were probably at less risk in their cars without seatbelts than you or I are on our motorcycles....

 

So?

 

We choose to expose ourselves to known risks every time we drive.

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Dave McReynolds

I think the title of this thread is wrong. The police's job is is not public safety or tax collection. It is law enforcement. Public safety is just one of the results.

 

Probably you're right, technically. But maybe this is something we should think about. Just like we decided nationally we needed a Department of Homeland Security with a redefined mission, since none of the existing agencies seemed to be doing the job, maybe we need to redefine the mission of the police.

 

At first, I was thinking only in terms of traffic cops, since I really think public safety is really what they ought to be doing. But then I thought, that's what they all ought to be doing: narcotics, homicide, vice, firemen, paramedics, parole officers, public health inspectors, etc. It doesn't mean that police should stop arresting people or firemen should stop putting out fires, but I think they need a new, unified focus.

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Dave McReynolds

Did the irony ever strike you of being a motor cop in a "click it or ticket" campaign? Not that any of us would want seat-belts on our motorcycles, but I would imagine those drivers were probably at less risk in their cars without seatbelts than you or I are on our motorcycles....

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

So?

 

We choose to expose ourselves to known risks every time we drive.

 

The irony is in the fact that the motor LEO is issuing a citation for behavior that is less risky than he himself is engaging in just by virtue of riding his motorcycle, ignoring whatever other risks he may face in the line of duty. Not saying he shouldn't do it; it's his job. I just find it amusing.

 

In the same way I found VD lectures amusing as we sailed off to Vietnam when I was in the Marines. Not the biggest problem we had to worry about!

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Notice you didn't tell us rule #2. lmao.gif

 

I guess I didn't see the irony. The LEO is writing a ticket because it is illegal to not wear the seat belt. It's not illegal to ride the bike.

 

But I do acknowledge the much higher risk of injury/death for the bike rider. I do wonder, as I previously stated in this thread, about the lack of protective gear worn by the MC LEO's in Illinois.

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GoGo Gadget
Click or ticket is about getting people to buckle up.

 

So, when I see a cop drive by, without his seat belt on, should I pull him over? And give him a ticket?

 

Depends, is it illegal?

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Click or ticket is about getting people to buckle up.

 

So, when I see a cop drive by, without his seat belt on, should I pull him over? And give him a ticket?

 

Depends, is it illegal?

 

Since another cop wouldn't give him a ticket I don't suggest you try. Whether it's illegal or not isn't relevant. Professional courtesy they call it.

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Click or ticket is about getting people to buckle up.

 

So, when I see a cop drive by, without his seat belt on, should I pull him over? And give him a ticket?

 

Depends, is it illegal?

 

Since another cop wouldn't give him a ticket I don't suggest you try. Whether it's illegal or not isn't relevant. Professional courtesy they call it.

 

 

Write down his tag, car number, location and identify the driver and yes YOU CAN write him a ticket. Go to the local PD where it happened and they will explain how to do it.

 

You will be required to come to court and testify against him/her if they choose to contest the summons.

 

I'm not worried because I always wear my belt when driving in my patrol car and as for the guys who don't, maybe if they get a ticket it will make my job easier when I do "click it or ticket" details.

 

BTW, we have general orders that require us to wear them and the possibility that if we are injured in a crash and we were NOT buckled in certain benefits can be withheld. Last time I checked I didn't see anything in PERSONAL car insurance policies that threatened to withhold benefits should injuries occur as a result of not wearing a safety belt.

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DaveTheAffable
Probably you're right, technically. But maybe this is something we should think about. Just like we decided nationally we needed a Department of Homeland Security with a redefined mission, since none of the existing agencies seemed to be doing the job, maybe we need to redefine the mission of the police.

At first, I was thinking only in terms of traffic cops, since I really think public safety is really what they ought to be doing. But then I thought, that's what they all ought to be doing: narcotics, homicide, vice, firemen, paramedics, parole officers, public health inspectors, etc. It doesn't mean that police should stop arresting people or firemen should stop putting out fires, but I think they need a new, unified focus.

 

Excellant idea! Let's move right on down the road to a National Police Force, tightly controlled by the government so that THEY (them pesky LEO's) can finally get it right. Sig Heil!

 

lurker.giflurker.giflurker.gif

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