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High RPM vibration issue


johnciowa

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I have '96 RT on which I have done a TB synch numerous times using a twinmax.

 

The bike runs great on the first part of a long ride. However, after a lunch stop, it frequently seems to fall out of synch at high RPM's (> 4000). Feels great below 4000 but vibrates at anything above.

 

I stopped at a dealer during a long ride last summer and asked them what they thought. They said it ran great. I say it vibrated too much at higher RPMs.

 

The weird thing is it will frequently go back into synch after an overnight stop and run fine again during the morning.

 

I really think the throttle bodies are synched okay.

 

Anybody have any other ideas? TPS? Buy a techlusion?

 

I am almost ready to start looking for an in-line four to avoid this issue.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

John

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ShovelStrokeEd

I really think the throttle bodies are synched okay.

 

And they probably are. I'm afraid a bit of buzz is the nature of the beast. Assuming pistons and the like are within factory specification for weight, the engine will exhibit pretty much perfect primary balance, there is, however, a secondary imbalance (rocking couple) caused by the necessary offset of the crank pins that cannot be done away with. That is what you are feeling. BTW, it is most noticeable right around that 4000 RPM point and goes pretty much away by about 4500 or so and stays gone up to near redline, whereupon it comes back.

 

If you don't like it, your choices are ride at a higher RPM or get an inline 4 which, btw, will buzz at exactly the same RPM unless, like my Blackbird, it is equipped with counterbalance shafts.

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Thanks for the response.

 

What get's me though is that the vibration issue comes and goes. There are times when the bike is awesome and other times when it is bad.

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ShovelStrokeEd

There is as little as 200 RPM difference between this being a PITA to just barely there.

 

There might also be a bit of a harmonic thing going on that is aggravating the condition on your bike. Look to the mounts that connect the chassis to the engine and the parts that connect you to the bike. Quite often, if you go through all the bits, loosening and then re torquing the various bolts, you can make some of this go away. Might be well worth an afternoon spent in the garage to pull off all the tupperware and have a go with the wrenches.

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This may be way off, but has the buzz always been there, or is this new? How old are the tires? My '96 RT had a vibration that was noticeable at 3200-3400 rpm that went away after I changed my rear tire (which was shot BTW).

 

Ed is probably right (he always is), but just thought I'd ask before you get too wrench happy.

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There is as little as 200 RPM difference between this being a PITA to just barely there.
Yep. Ride a little faster.
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Tires are new. This definitely feels like an engine issue. Take it out of gear and rev past 4000 and I feel it. (When it happens, other times past 4000 is okay).

 

Anyone think a TPS adjust or Techlusion might do anything?

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Your bike might be sucking air. Check all the gaskets and seals from the head back to the airbox. It is common for the bellows gasket to dry rot and crack. The common way to test for this is with the engine running spray WD-40 on the seals, gaskets, etc and watch the tail pipe for a white cloud.

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I have '96 RT on which I have done a TB synch numerous times using a twinmax.

 

The bike runs great on the first part of a long ride. However, after a lunch stop, it frequently seems to fall out of synch at high RPM's (> 4000). Feels great below 4000 but vibrates at anything above.

 

I stopped at a dealer during a long ride last summer and asked them what they thought. They said it ran great. I say it vibrated too much at higher RPMs.

 

The weird thing is it will frequently go back into synch after an overnight stop and run fine again during the morning.

 

I really think the throttle bodies are synched okay.

 

Anybody have any other ideas? TPS? Buy a techlusion?

 

I am almost ready to start looking for an in-line four to avoid this issue.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

John

 

John, at 4000 RPM’s your vibration isn’t a fuling issue.. Surge is a possibility but a high RPM vibration is an inherent balance problem or even a possible firing frequency problem but not a fuling problem.. BMW addressed the second order engine vibration problem by installing a balance shaft on the 1200 boxer..

 

As far as hot to cold differences it could be as simple as your exhaust system getting hot then stretching out.. If it is grounding out or contacting the frame when hot the engine vibration will be telegraphed directly to the frame.. On my old 1100 the cat converter had a witness mark where it was grounding out from time to time.. Maybe check the center stand bumper to see if it is allowing the center stand to contact the cat. converter (I had to lengthen the bumper on my 1150 as it allowed center stand to converter contact)..

 

As the engine gets hot sometimes the operating clearances open up a little & that can allow a minor inherent imbalance to become more bothersome..

 

Also as the operating temperatures come up the engine & trans oil thins out so there is less oil drag.. Even the suspension dampening & tire pressures change with temperature so the entire bike could become more sensitive to a specific RPM if the chassis harmonic mode lines up with an offending engine RPM..

 

Also keep in mind that after riding the bike for a while you become more sensitive to the bike’s vibration points..

 

My 1150 boxer is about the same way & feels pretty good until ridden a few hours then the engine vibration pokes it’s head up at certain mid RPM ranges (I just don’t ride there)..

 

Amount of gasoline in the fuel tank can have an effect on chassis response so even the amount of gasoline in the tank can effect both chassis vibration response & engine noise..

 

I got a chance to put some time on an 07 RT a couple of weeks ago & the engine vibration dampening is light years ahead of the 1100/1150..

 

Twisty

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Tires are new. This definitely feels like an engine issue. Take it out of gear and rev past 4000 and I feel it. (When it happens, other times past 4000 is okay).

 

Anyone think a TPS adjust or Techlusion might do anything?

 

Does it vibrate more just after adding oil? With the oil a little high the crank hits the surface of the oil increasing vibes.

 

Andy

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Okay,

 

So I will check for air leaks with the wd-40 and look around for items that may have loose bolts.

 

The oil level IS a bit above the dot. I wonder if that is part of it.

 

I was so hoping for someone to say "I had that problem and here is the fix..."

 

Keep the suggestions coming, I am all ears.

 

John

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I am really glad the OP put this thread up. My 1100 has the same vibration and I was wondering about it.

 

I assume, and hope you guys will tell me- this vibe is not hurting anything, and that running at the higher (smoother) rpm will not hurt anything either. My bike has had the sync and I would like to assume it stays synched- at least for a while... is this a good assumption?

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I am really glad the OP put this thread up. My 1100 has the same vibration and I was wondering about it.

 

I assume, and hope you guys will tell me- this vibe is not hurting anything, and that running at the higher (smoother) rpm will not hurt anything either. My bike has had the sync and I would like to assume it stays synched- at least for a while... is this a good assumption?

 

Hopz, most NON BALANCE SHAFT equipped boxer type engines (like your 1100) vibrate at higher RPM’s .. It’s the nature of the beast.. The pistons travel opposed to each other so there is an inherent basic balance in the mechanical components (like pistons & crankshaft) But (& big but here) those large pistons need to accelerate & decelerate from moving in one direction to stopping & moving off in the other direction.. There is a tremendous amount of energy created there so you get a lot of upper RPM vibrations due to kinetic energy displacement.. As the pistons get bigger the problem gets worse so BMW went to balance shaft balancing on the 1200.. Certain RPM bands seem to more bothersome to the rider as they excite the bike chassis, seat, foot pegs, or handlebars..

 

Twisty

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JerryMather

Throttle Body Sync is the best way to get them to run as smooth as possible. If you can...............take it out on a road that you can run it to almost redline at high speed for about ten minutes. It's called an Italian Tune Up.

 

Sounds crazy....but I swear it works. The motor needs to be calibrated to the motronic and this is the way it's done.

It's not just one of those wives tales you hear about. thumbsup.gif

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2wheelterry
I have '96 RT on which I have done a TB synch numerous times using a twinmax.

 

Just to be sure, you are doing both the TB synch at idle and at above idle? The second needing the adjustment at the throttle cable.

 

The vibration present sometimes and not others could be load related. For example, does going up a decent incline at freeway speeds cause the vibration, whereas going down the same incline at the same speed not cause it?

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R1100RSpurist

!!! I was just going to post the same question...I have a 95 R1100RS that just wont run smooth at 3900-4000 RPM and is buzzy above that as well. I have done TB synch and valve adjustments and still it buzzes and feels like it lacking power sometimes. Is that "italian tune up" legitament?

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Bill_Walker
Hopz, most NON BALANCE SHAFT equipped boxer type engines (like your 1100) vibrate at higher RPM’s .. It’s the nature of the beast..

 

So, (hijack on), I guess I shouldn't worry if my 1150 is smooth as silk from 4000 to 4700, but gets vibey and growly from 4700 to redline? Of course, the fact that I do the TBS at 4000 may have something to do with this.

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Don_Eilenberger

After trying ALL the tricks/techniques mentioned by the very helpful people here - and a few they didn't mention, I finally found the cure for the vibration. It was an R1200R.

 

The balance shaft works and makes for a wonderful smooth vibration free engine. At redline the R1200 feels about like my 1150 did at 4k. It has a particularly sweet spot at 4,100 - which is 80MPH in 6th gear. You can feel a bit of vibration as you accelerate (increase RPMs) - but it is subdued and not buzzy. Once you reach a steady state RPM - at anything less than 5k - it just goes away. It's about as smooth as a K75 motor (an engine that is the gold standard for vibration free) - and there is no surge, just great throttle response.

 

It works - BMW did fix the problem - only problem for the riders is it means a new bike to take advantage of the fix. I got to the point where I was cancelling trips because I didn't want to ride the R1150RS. I have owned the Roadster for about 20 days - it has 1,200 miles on it and has been on the road every day except 3 when I was away with family in another state. It put the fun back into riding for me..

 

It appears some 1100's/1150's are more buzzy than others, and some people are more sensitive to the buzz. That being the case - they may be fine for some people. I do frequent a number of "hexhead" forums - and so far have not seen one complaint about vibrations.. which says something.

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DavidEBSmith

Does it vibrate more just after adding oil? With the oil a little high the crank hits the surface of the oil increasing vibes.

 

Below is a cutaway of an Oilhead engine. It would have to be way, way overfilled for the crank to get into the oil.

 

866533-fishmotor.jpg

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!!! I was just going to post the same question...I have a 95 R1100RS that just wont run smooth at 3900-4000 RPM and is buzzy above that as well. I have done TB synch and valve adjustments and still it buzzes and feels like it lacking power sometimes. Is that "italian tune up" legitament?

 

Andrus, no amount of running that bike hard will effect the engine basic balance or vibration problems.. It can remove some combustion chamber carbon therefore helping the idle quality slightly,, or decrease the compression slightly so make the low RPM firing pulses slightly (very slightly) softer.. The higher RPM engine vibration is inherent in the basic boxer design (it is not a smooth engine to begin with).. It can’t be tuned out with a tune up,, or TBI balance,, or special spark plugs,, or anal valve adjustment..

 

That upper RPM vibration on the 1100/1150 is there to stay as it is designed into the basic engine (actually it is normal & just not designed out of the engine)..

 

That not running smooth at 3900-4000 RPM is more than likely not a vibration problem but probably a surge problem due to running lean in that operating range (most 1100’s have that lean-surge spot).. That can usually be helped with an aftermarket fuel controller like a Techlusion fuel controller.. You can probably make it slightly better by removing your CCP (in the fuse box) .. The 1100 (2.2 computer) has a fairly decent base fueling map & doesn’t lose a lot of spark advance like the 1150 does so should respond to pulling the CCP (worth a try anyhow)..

 

Actually the bike should get better as you become more accustomed to it’s vibration points & surge operating ranges.. You will probably subconsciously avoid those operating ranges by shifting slightly differently or riding right through them..

 

Twisty

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ShovelStrokeEd

+1 on Twisty's comments.

The Italian tune up is just beating the crap out of the motorcycle and serves no useful purpose. In fact, if there are serious deposits on the plugs, the extra heat from the full throttle operation can turn a normally innocuous deposit into a conductive one that will cause the plug to fail. Now, a good brisk run down a curving road or one with lots of ups and downs with a bunch of moderate acceleration and higher than cruising RPM will allow an engine to clean up a bit. Remember, the real Italian tune up involves "Run it up over the mountain one more time, Guido, and it should be good to go." A good two tanks of freeway riding is always good as well.

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That not running smooth at 3900-4000 RPM is more than likely not a vibration problem but probably a surge problem due to running lean in that operating range (most 1100’s have that lean-surge spot).
Do you think it would be helpful to richen the mixture a bit at 4000 rpm? The Power Commander suggested default map (supposedly set up on a dyno using a stock bike) doesn't seem to to do that, but maybe I'll give it a try...
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That not running smooth at 3900-4000 RPM is more than likely not a vibration problem but probably a surge problem due to running lean in that operating range (most 1100’s have that lean-surge spot).
Do you think it would be helpful to richen the mixture a bit at 4000 rpm? The Power Commander suggested default map (supposedly set up on a dyno using a stock bike) doesn't seem to to do that, but maybe I'll give it a try...

 

 

Seth, it probably depends on the engine loading.. At a decent 4000 RPM engine load (upper gear ranges, fairly open throttle plate) the stock mapping might be plenty rich enough.. The lean condition at 4000 seems to be very light throttle (low gears low loading) where the stock fueling map isn’t in control but the 02 sensor is..

 

To be more precise something in the low 14:1 range or even the high 13:1 range (like 13.8-13.9:1) .. If you ride a lot in the 4000 RPM range a low 14:1 might help your fuel economy slightly..

 

I guess with your ability to control your specific fuel air ratio at given engine loads & RPM bands you would be the best judge of what works/feels best.. All I can do with my Techlusion is change the mixture until the seat of pants says good (or better than last move) but I really have no way of knowing exactly what it is.. I put it on the Dyno Jet when I first got the bike but I couldn’t tune with the analyzer as I had no probe tap in front of the cat. Converter.. I do now but haven’t had a chance to get it back on the D.J. yet..

 

Do you have spark mapping control with your PC? If so maybe a little spark mapping change will really perk it up.. On my Harley I do have spark mapping control & playing with that made a whale of a difference in the off idle range & mid range throttle roll on. Couldn’t change the peak torque or peak HP much though.. You can even hear the spark mapping change in the exhaust note as it sounds like a different engine in the mid range..

 

When I get a chance (BMW bike here) I am going to bump my base timing about 3° to see if I can note a change in ridability in the mid range but still stay out of spark knock on light throttle up..

 

Twisty

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R1100RSpurist

what is the ccp? where in the fuse box, and what are the effects of pulling it? will it hurt my cat (either one grin.gif)

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To be more precise something in the low 14:1 range or even the high 13:1 range (like 13.8-13.9:1) .. If you ride a lot in the 4000 RPM range a low 14:1 might help your fuel economy slightly..
Right now I have closed-loop set at 13.8:1. I've also added a little fuel at low rpm/low throttle openings which has virtually eliminated any surge under these conditions. But that enrichment is gone by 4000 rpm (or at higher throttle settings) so I may try adding a bit of fuel back in again at 4000rpm at a moderate (cruise) throttle position range and see if that helps the flat spot.

 

When I get a chance (BMW bike here) I am going to bump my base timing about 3° to see if I can note a change in ridability in the mid range but still stay out of spark knock on light throttle up..
FWIW I have tried that (by advancing static timing a few degrees, the Power Commander for BMW applications doesn't have spark timing control) and found that there was no noticeable increase in knock but also no no noticeable increase in overall driveability, at least in my case.
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So am I hearing a techlusion kit might help?

 

So far, potential solutions are:

- the "Ducati" Tune-up to get the motronic working

- look for air leaks with wd-40

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So am I hearing a techlusion kit might help?
For this particular problem I would consider a Techlusion / Power Commander last rather than first. These devices are great for fine-tuning a bike that is already in a good state of tune but they generally shouldn't be used to attempt a cure at an ongoing problem. If you feel that something is really wrong (such as an air leak, etc.) then you should sniff that out first. Once you have things in good order then you might want to consider one of the above devices if you want to experiment a bit in search of perfection (or at least as close as any oilhead is going to get to that state.)
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what is the ccp? where in the fuse box, and what are the effects of pulling it? will it hurt my cat (either one grin.gif)

 

Owen, the CCP is basically just a gutted Bosch relay with jumper wires inside.. It's purpose in life is to force the Motronic (fueling computer) to use one of it's many internal fuel & spark maps.. The primary one used in the USA is the pink CCP.. BMW's 1100's delivered in some countries used different color CCP's & those forced a different internal fuel/spark map.. Most of those didn't come with a catalytic converter though.. There is talk of countries like Australia delivering the 1100's with no CCP (not sure if they were built like that or the selling dealers just pulled them out)..

As far as damage to your Cat. Converter? It's possible but there are hundreds & possibly thousands of people that have pulled them on the BMW 1100 bikes & so far I haven't heard of any Cat Converter damage.. I gutted a BMW converter a while ago & it wasn't the standard ceramic honey comb but was a metal honey comb with rare metals on it's surface..

 

My 1100 responded to pulling the pink CCP as the base fueling /spark map seems pretty good.. My 1150 didn't respond nearly as good as it made it lazy in the upper RPM ranges..

I guess you will have to see for yourself if pulling your pink CCP will help you out.. In most cases it will help the off idle light throttle surging but might cause some loss of response in other operating ranges.. What I found as good way of telling the pros & cons of pulling that CCP is to pull it out then ride the bike for a week or two.. Then re-install it & ride it a while like that.. The surge will probably be worse using the CCP but you will have to judge for yourself if it degrades other RPM ranges.. If you decide to pull the CCP remove the Motronic fuse for about 30 seconds,,, not sure if that is really needed but most of us do that out of habit as that allows the Motronic to reset..

 

Twisty

 

ccp.jpg

 

Twisty

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i was doing some internet research, and came across this-- http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/R11inj-surging-fixes.shtml

what do you think about his verdict on the ccp removal?

 

Owen, I don’t really know what to tell you.. At one time Lentini was considered the guru on the 2.2 systems but he cites no data to back up his speculation on converter damage.. At one time I though he was the final word on the BMW 2.2 systems but as time has gone by & I have worked with the system more & more I disagree with some of his information.. If he were still alive he might have revised some of his early data as more info has become available..

 

 

Here is my take on the converter damage issue..

 

_First off, in all your internet research did you find even one case of a failed cat converter due to the CCP removal (didn’t think so)..

There are any number of people running without that CCP right now (some are happy some, some are somewhat pleased, & others didn’t think it helped) .. Some have LOTS of miles on their 1100 without that CCP..

 

_I personally ran my old 1100 for about 20, 000 miles with the CCP removed or a non cat. CCP jumper installed.. The cat showed no signs of overheating or plugging & the muffler stayed shiny..

 

_There are a number of aftermarket fuel control devices sold (mostly the same type under different names) to allow the 1100 to run at a richer fuel air mixture & none that I know of say the cat. must be removed..

 

_Keep in mind that your present system defaults to that map (or close to it) if you have a computer sensor problem .. I doubt BMW would allow a harmful map in the computer as a failsafe..

 

_There are a lot of dealers out there that have quietly removed that CCP (probably in some cases not even telling the owner)..

 

_Remember your system as it is right now goes pretty rich at accel,, when running wide open,, at more than mid throttle,, (it’s only emission compliant at part throttle & below)..

 

If there is any doubt in your mind DON’T pull your CCP.. I’m not telling you to do it if you don’t want to.. It was just suggested as an option that a lot of others are fairly happy with..

 

BTW, when I was running without the CCP my bike never set that 1111 code so that says the computer didn't care if it had a Co pot or not.. ..

 

Twisty

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And lastly, some real-world experience. I ran without a CCP for 40k miles, then installed a Power Commander and played with various (richer than stock) settings for another 10k miles. I then foolishly let some of the 'converter damage' talk get to me and came up with the idea that my converter may be getting plugged (due to an unrelated mileage issue.) Upon removal the cat element was clear and didn't show the slightest sign of heat damage. No noticeable performance difference afterward either, FWIW.

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John,

 

In spite of all the hoosa fudge, these bikes can be smooth; my '98 R11RT (w/o ccp) sweest spot's 4000 rpm; no tingles at'al.

 

Wooster w/o vibration

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Willy Nilly

I removed the CCP almost 10,000 miles ago & had the Cat. & 02 sensor removed from the exhaust at the same time.

 

Surge went away & it seems that the temp. does not go up quite as quick as before when the cat. was still in place.

 

Have always had the buzz in the 4,000 RPM area, just assumed it was the nature of the beast.

 

I`m always riding 2up & fairly aggressive.

 

Mileage has been between 45 & 49.8 MPG.

 

Next, will be the 2 plug conversion to existing heads.

Would like to hear others idea`s about the 2 plug conversion after the mods. listed above.

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R1100RSpurist

twisty, I am just trying to find out more about the system, and I thank you for being so helpful and patient with me. I just have one more question and it is, will my MPG suffer at the removal of the CCP?

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DavidEBSmith

I only have two things to say because I'm tired of getting beaten up for going against the conventional "wisdom" of this DB:

 

- Try searching "catalytic converter damage rich". Running rich may cause damage to a catalytic converter. Or it may not. It depends. But the possibility is well documented.

 

- "It didn't break mine" is useless data. The final drive on my bike went 130,000 miles without a failure, so there are no problems with BMW final drives? "Lots of people do this" isn't much better. BMW keeps actual statistics on what fails and what doesn't and acts accordingly. Anecdotal statistics based on internet reports are pretty useless.

 

People need to be really cautious about suggesting this fix or that fix without completely understanding the full scope of the issue and all the possible ramifications. A lot of the stuff you read on the internet is based on reverse engineering and guesswork which may or may not have developed the complete picture. It must also be understood that anything that gets posted here will be blindly followed by somebody who has no clue what they're doing or what possible problems to look for. How many bikes have been f-ed up by people blindly doing 0=0 as a first step instead of a last step after eliminating all the other variables? It happens constantly. Perhaps the big mistake Lentini made was assuming his readership was as analytical as he was.

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Clive Liddell

John,

Nice thread to revive.

 

Many of us went through all this in '95 and '96. However, and I haven't noticed this mentioned yet, once the miles/kilometers climbed a lot of the "problem vibrations" went away. You have not mentioned the milage of your RT - there are some that are still quite low (ie <30000 mi)

 

I cannot remember when I last did a TB synch on either of my bikes and they are running as smooth as silk. Of course they are both "no cat" and "no CCP" bikes with CO potentiometers (as originally designed no doubt) so that may be the difference.

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twisty, I am just trying to find out more about the system, and I thank you for being so helpful and patient with me. I just have one more question and it is, will my MPG suffer at the removal of the CCP?

 

Owen, maybe & maybe not.. It really depends on how you ride, what road speed & throttle openings you ride at.. I really never lost much MPG on my 1100 but I don’t do a lot of low speed or city riding.. Once you get up into the throttle a ways it is probably a wash. Low speed & lots of idling will maybe lose you a little MPG.. Just try it & keep fuel mileage records for all iterations.. Remember running on the 02 will hold you close to 14.7:1 (that is too lean for best mileage) .. Not sure where it goes with no CCP but probably not a lot richer than the high 13:1 range (best fuel mileage will probably come somewhere’s in the low 14:1 or even in the very high 13.xx:1 range.. Idling no load can run a little leaner (like 14.7-15:1 & still get good economy but at cruise (engine loaded) that is too lean for good fuel economy..

 

Twisty

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photojournalyst
I cannot remember when I last did a TB synch on either of my bikes and they are running as smooth as silk. Of course they are both "no cat" and "no CCP" bikes with CO potentiometers (as originally designed no doubt) so that may be the difference.

 

I've got close to 60k on my bike, and I have vibration, but it seems to be normal. My question is whether or not I should be switching to potentometers, and if it's an affordable and possible solution... Especially if I get miles per gallon out of it. I ride my bike every day from March through November, and if I can get more fuel economy out of it, I will...

 

Any thoughts out there?

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've got close to 60k on my bike, and I have vibration, but it seems to be normal. My question is whether or not I should be switching to potentometers, and if it's an affordable and possible solution... Especially if I get miles per gallon out of it. I ride my bike every day from March through November, and if I can get more fuel economy out of it, I will...

The CO pot only affects mixture at idle and your current (closed-loop) system does just as well or better than a fixed adjustment anyway. So, switching to a CO pot is not likely to have any noticeable effect on mileage.

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I cannot remember when I last did a TB synch on either of my bikes and they are running as smooth as silk. Of course they are both "no cat" and "no CCP" bikes with CO potentiometers (as originally designed no doubt) so that may be the difference.

 

I've got close to 60k on my bike, and I have vibration, but it seems to be normal. My question is whether or not I should be switching to potentometers, and if it's an affordable and possible solution... Especially if I get miles per gallon out of it. I ride my bike every day from March through November, and if I can get more fuel economy out of it, I will...

 

Any thoughts out there?

 

Adam, your engine vibration is inherent in the boxer design so no amount of CCP removal, Co. pot installation will help that..

 

As for the Co pot helping fuel economy.. Assuming you are now running without the CCP installed & 02 sensor disconnected it might if you do a lot of idling at lights & a lot of idling around in 1st gear.. If it did get you a fuel mileage increase it would be so slight that I doubt you could even measure the difference though.. If you are still running the 02 sensor connected the Co. pot probably wouldn’t help at all as the Motronic would probably look for that & ignore the Co. pot anyhow..

 

Twisty

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photojournalyst

I pulled the pink thing, ran for about 1k, didn't like how the bike acted even though the surging was gone, put it back in, and the surging was still gone but the bike ran better. So I just keep it stock now. I'm used to the buzzing, it's just time for a tuneup.

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