How about oil filter equivalency?

[sonofdennis]

I Compared the Fram made filter for my RT to the BMW filter. Night and day difference when looking into the filter at the perferated sheet metal barrier inside by the paper filter element. Looked like it wouldn't flow as well as the BMW since the Fram seemed to have just as many holes but holes look half the size of BMW filter.

Anyone else notice? If yes what alternative filter seems the best? I haven't looked at the Mobil One filter. And does any of this really matter? I would love to save some cost as I change oil and filter often, but I won't sacrifice function.

 

Thanks,

Alan

[E30TECH]

Anyone else notice?

 

Fram is pure junk compared to what is out on the market.

 

I would use a SuperTech (Walmart) brand filter before I use a fram. I actually do use the SuperTechs on my wife's car (but I only factory filters on my vehicles )

[RFW]

I Compared the Fram made filter for my RT to the BMW filter. Night and day difference when looking into the filter at the perferated sheet metal barrier inside by the paper filter element. Looked like it wouldn't flow as well as the BMW since the Fram seemed to have just as many holes but holes look half the size of BMW filter.

Anyone else notice? If yes what alternative filter seems the best? I haven't looked at the Mobil One filter. And does any of this really matter? I would love to save some cost as I change oil and filter often, but I won't sacrifice function.

It is well known that Fram makes crap.

 

Bosch makes a great filter. Available here http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/frames.html

(then select pages 15 and 16).

 

Purolator filters are also good.

[Jim Miller]

Riding a BMW can be more costly than other choices in certain regards and we should all be mindful of where to cut costs when practical. However, saving a few cents on an oil filter just isn't one of those places to skimp. Buy the BMW brand filter and feel good knowing you've made the better choice. In turn, skip the french fries at lunch tomorrow and you'll not only be dollars ahead, you'll feel better for that as well.

[Bud]

I Compared the Fram made filter for my RT to the BMW filter. Night and day difference when looking into the filter at the perferated sheet metal barrier inside by the paper filter element. Looked like it wouldn't flow as well as the BMW since the Fram seemed to have just as many holes but holes look half the size of BMW filter.

Anyone else notice? If yes what alternative filter seems the best? I haven't looked at the Mobil One filter. And does any of this really matter? I would love to save some cost as I change oil and filter often, but I won't sacrifice function.

It is well known that Fram makes crap.

 

Bosch makes a great filter. Available here http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/frames.html

(then select pages 15 and 16).

 

Purolator filters are also good.

 

Really? Any facts to support that statement?

 

I've said it before and will say it again. Fram sells millions of oil filters every year. Do you see cars and trucks on the side of the road because of "crap" Fram filters. Any lawsuits against Fram because of "crap" Fram filters?

 

If you are anal like most BMW motorcycle owners and change oil and filter every 3K miles, I doubt that even a "crap" Fram filter will cause any engine damage.

 

I have not personal interest in Fram. I have heard over and over again how bad Fram filters are but have seen no proof. Lots of opinion. No scientific testing with oil analysis.

 

But there are those who feel that an expensive bike like a BMW has to have expensive filters. Some folks think spending more is a virtue.

 

My .02 worth. YMMV

 

[steve.foote]

Fram is pure junk compared to what is out on the market.

 

Bingo! I did a thing on this a few years ago:

 

Oil Filters Exposed!

 

Fram filters are only good for holding papers to your workbench on a windy day.

[E30TECH]

Really? Any facts to support that statement?

Based on one person's testing. As mentioned on his page, not to be taken as gospel. Do you own tests (as I have).

 

Independent oil filter study

 

 

Any lawsuits against Fram because of "crap" Fram filters?

 

We all know fast food is not 'good' for you. Any lawsuits from people getting fat, clogging their arteries, and having heart attacks from eating it? McDonalds "sells millions of" Big Macs "every year".

 

 

EDIT:

Since Steve beat me to it, you have 2 sites to look at.

 

Fram filters are only good for holding papers to your workbench on a windy day

Not if it is a heavy wind. Fram filters are made so cheap, I doubt they'd even hold the paper.

[RFW]

Not if it is a heavy wind. Fram filters are made so cheap, I doubt they'd even hold the paper.

Speaking of "paper", the internal cardboard gasket(s) Fram uses, are particularly impressive, and a source of much discussion in various sites.

[Bud]

Really? Any facts to support that statement?

Based on one person's testing. As mentioned on his page, not to be taken as gospel. Do you own tests (as I have).

 

Independent oil filter study

 

 

Any lawsuits against Fram because of "crap" Fram filters?

 

We all know fast food is not 'good' for you. Any lawsuits from people getting fat, clogging their arteries, and having heart attacks from eating it? McDonalds "sells millions of" Big Macs "every year".

 

 

EDIT:

Since Steve beat me to it, you have 2 sites to look at.

 

Fram filters are only good for holding papers to your workbench on a windy day

Not if it is a heavy wind. Fram filters are made so cheap, I doubt they'd even hold the paper.

 

Sorry, no scientific tests there. Observations only. Clearly labeled as opinion.

 

"This "study" is not a "test"." taken from Oil filter study

 

This quote "My personal observations:

Fram: Made of cardboard, least filter elementthin gasket, real cheesy construction, good bypass valve design. I wouldn't use it in my electric weedeater. taken from here clearly states it is personal observation, not testing.

 

How about controlled scientific tests, conducted by an independent laboratory, backed up by oil analysis?

 

I'm not saying Fram is the best filter available, I'm only asking for unbiased, scientific testing to prove they are "crap" filters.

[steve.foote]

Sorry, no scientific tests there. Observations only. Clearly labeled as opinion.

 

Oh boy, here we go again.

 

Just curious, but do you believe that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west? Do you trust your eyes, or do you require proof from some scientific study?

[E30TECH]

Really? Any facts to support that statement?

Based on one person's testing. As mentioned on his page, not to be taken as gospel. Do you own tests (as I have).

 

Independent oil filter study

 

 

Any lawsuits against Fram because of "crap" Fram filters?

 

We all know fast food is not 'good' for you. Any lawsuits from people getting fat, clogging their arteries, and having heart attacks from eating it? McDonalds "sells millions of" Big Macs "every year".

 

 

EDIT:

Since Steve beat me to it, you have 2 sites to look at.

 

Fram filters are only good for holding papers to your workbench on a windy day

Not if it is a heavy wind. Fram filters are made so cheap, I doubt they'd even hold the paper.

 

Sorry, no scientific tests there. Observations only. Clearly labeled as opinion.

 

"This "study" is not a "test"." taken from Oil filter study

 

This quote "My personal observations:

Fram: Made of cardboard, least filter elementthin gasket, real cheesy construction, good bypass valve design. I wouldn't use it in my electric weedeater. taken from here clearly states it is personal observation, not testing.

 

How about controlled scientific tests, conducted by an independent laboratory, backed up by oil analysis?

 

I'm not saying Fram is the best filter available, I'm only asking for unbiased, scientific testing to prove they are "crap" filters.

 

You don't need a scientific test. All you need to do is your own comparison. I especially like Fram's plastic check valve that they paint metallic silver.

 

I never said they were crap, just pure junk. They aren't worth the cardboard their packaged in.

 

 

[Bud]

I apologize to all the oil filter experts on this forum. Your observations are infallible as are your remarks on my inability to make them.

[steve.foote]

I apologize to all the oil filter experts on this forum. Your observations are infallible as are your remarks on my inability to make them.

 

'bout time!

[Paul Mihalka]

I think it is really simple: Fram makes a cheaply built filter that is good enough to do the job. Hence no seized engines or documented faster wear. Other filter manufacturers make filters of apparent better build quality that also do the job, but no proof that they do a better job. I use Purolator because they are cheap and fit the same wrench as the BMW filters

[E30TECH]

I apologize to all the oil filter experts on this forum. Your observations are infallible as are your remarks on my inability to make them.

Now that we have that out of the way, dino or synthetic oil...which is better?

[Bud]

I apologize to all the oil filter experts on this forum. Your observations are infallible as are your remarks on my inability to make them.

Now that we have that out of the way, dino or synthetic oil...which is better?

 

Since I have no basis on which to form an opinion, I'm sure all of you know the answer without even asking the question.

[E30TECH]

I apologize to all the oil filter experts on this forum. Your observations are infallible as are your remarks on my inability to make them.

Now that we have that out of the way, dino or synthetic oil...which is better?

 

Since I have no basis on which to form an opinion, I'm sure all of you know the answer without even asking the question.

Well I just wanted to hear what you would say

[Steve W.]

First I have no Interest in Fram. I've used Fram on many cars and motorcycles including BMWs and Harleys, No problem, but I use the Premium Fram "Tough Guard". The standard orange can "Extra Guard" is made real cheap. Fram makes different levels of filters, look here: http://fram.com/products/oilFilters.php

You get what you pay for usually.

Cheers

Steve

[russell_bynum]

Riding a BMW can be more costly than other choices in certain regards and we should all be mindful of where to cut costs when practical. However, saving a few cents on an oil filter just isn't one of those places to skimp. Buy the BMW brand filter and feel good knowing you've made the better choice. In turn, skip the french fries at lunch tomorrow and you'll not only be dollars ahead, you'll feel better for that as well.

 

Hogwash.

 

That assumes (without any actual evidence whatsoever that just because it says BMW on the box and costs 3x more than any other filter that it MUST be the best.

 

That sort of mindset is why the EXACT SAME filter from Mahle is cheaper than the "BMW" filter and why "BMW" oil is way more expensive than the Castrol-branded stuff (hint: "BMW" oil is Castrol with a different label on the bottle and a price increase.)

[E30TECH]

Riding a BMW can be more costly than other choices in certain regards and we should all be mindful of where to cut costs when practical. However, saving a few cents on an oil filter just isn't one of those places to skimp. Buy the BMW brand filter and feel good knowing you've made the better choice. In turn, skip the french fries at lunch tomorrow and you'll not only be dollars ahead, you'll feel better for that as well.

 

Hogwash.

 

That assumes (without any actual evidence whatsoever that just because it says BMW on the box and costs 3x more than any other filter that it MUST be the best.

 

That sort of mindset is why the EXACT SAME filter from Mahle is cheaper than the "BMW" filter and why "BMW" oil is way more expensive than the Castrol-branded stuff (hint: "BMW" oil is Castrol with a different label on the bottle and a price increase.)

 

That is why I used Mahle on my M3. Infact, I think the dealer sold Mahle filters.

 

Mahle filters

[Steve W.]

With all the ongoing problems BMWs have and the corp. seems to ignore. The choice of oil filter seems very very low on the list of concerns. I've never heard of a oil filter failure stranding someone on the road. Maybe we could adapt a good ole Fram to the final drive or the splines. Maybe Fram could go into the HES replacement business LOL.....

Cheers

Steve (running for cover)

[NoHeat]

(hint: "BMW" oil is Castrol with a different label on the bottle and a price increase.)

 

I think you got your 'trols mixed up.

 

The label says it's made for BMW of North America by Spectrol. So it's really Spectrol oil, but it's not necessarily the same formulation as other Spectrol oils.

 

BMW's service manual says BMW recommends Castrol. Maybe that's what you were thinking of.

[Larry]

John is right, looked on the back of a bottle, BMW of North America by Spectrol. I phoned Spectol they say that the additives or amount are not the same. But the engine will be jest fine in any motorcycle. I've used in for years. I can often get a good price ( I buy from from Comp.Accs.in Springfeild Ohio.I get a few guys together, last time and picked up ten cases. Good deal for the shop all they do is order it and hand it to you. No stocking and you get a lower price. By the way, I work testing new aircraft engines. So I get to talk to people from oil compamys. Some own bikes. Most motorcycle oil, at least in the past is what they call an off lable of their own oil. Meaning they change the lable not the oil. Don't fall for the turn "meets or made to some motorcycle or auto mfg. specs". What they don't tell you is it most likely did anyway.

[Jim Miller]

Hogwash.

 

That assumes (without any actual evidence whatsoever that just because it says BMW on the box and costs 3x more than any other filter that it MUST be the best.

 

That sort of mindset is why the EXACT SAME filter from Mahle is cheaper than the "BMW" filter and why "BMW" oil is way more expensive than the Castrol-branded stuff (hint: "BMW" oil is Castrol with a different label on the bottle and a price increase.)

 

Russell...for starters, BMW oil is blended and packaged for BMW by Spectro Oils of Brookfield, CT. Castrol has nothing whatsoever to do with it. While it's claimed to be a different formula, I pay no more for BMW branded oil than I would for the Spectro product of the same vis rating. You really should consider finding a different dealer.

 

As for filters - we weren't blessed with a Mahle Filter Boutique here in Northwest Ohio, so most BMW riders I know buy their filters (and oil) from the local BMW dealer. Works for me. Hint: Get your facts straight, and stop making erroneous assumptions of your own before going off on people in here.

 

You're forgiven.

[russell_bynum]

Russell...for starters, BMW oil is blended and packaged for BMW by Spectro Oils of Brookfield, CT. Castrol has nothing whatsoever to do with it. While it's claimed to be a different formula, I pay no more for BMW branded oil than I would for the Spectro product of the same vis rating. You really should consider finding a different dealer.

 

My bad. I was thinking of the BMW car oil, which is Castrol.

 

As for filters - we weren't blessed with a Mahle Filter Boutique here in Northwest Ohio, so most BMW riders I know buy their filters (and oil) from the local BMW dealer. Works for me. Hint: Get your facts straight, and stop making erroneous assumptions of your own before going off on people in here.

 

You're forgiven.

 

I didn't ask for forgiveness. I may have had some of the details wrong, but I stand behind my argument: Stop assuming that just because it says "BMW" on the box and costs more that it is better, or that buying something else that may be cheaper is somehow wrong. If it meets the requirements, and it is cheaper then there's no logical reason not to buy it.

 

Also, Mahle filters are available online. A friend and I went in together and bought in bulk...enough to do 60K in oil changes each. If memory serves, we paid about 1/3 of what the local dealers were asking for the identical BMW-branded filter. (note: I know the margin on parts is very low...I'm not blaming the dealers for the high cost of BMW-branded stuff.)

[Jim Miller]

...I stand behind my argument: Stop assuming that just because it says "BMW" on the box and costs more that it is better, or that buying something else that may be cheaper is somehow wrong.

 

The BMW brand oil doesn't cost any more - at least not from my sources here.

 

Filter-wise, I paid $11.XX ea last time, including crush washers. I expect the Mahles would have been less.

 

In any event, it beats the Grand Opening promotion at the newest H-D dealer that opened here last weekend. He's advertising a $90 oil change special. But that was for Genuine Motor Company oil and filter...so it must have been good stuff.

[E30TECH]

...I stand behind my argument: Stop assuming that just because it says "BMW" on the box and costs more that it is better, or that buying something else that may be cheaper is somehow wrong.

 

The BMW brand oil doesn't cost any more - at least not from my sources here.

 

The BMW brand oil doesn't cost any more than what? I'm curious of what oils we are comparing.

[Jim Miller]

The BMW brand oil doesn't cost any more than the Spectro branded 20W-50 dino product. My BMW dealer has always priced his oil very competitively, while the local Big 4 dealer is probably on the high side for all other MC specific brands.

[E30TECH]

Thanks for clearing that up.

I haven't seen Spectro brand oils around here.

[Parrothead]

When my RT burns up a motor at 300,000 miles, sometime in the next 20 years, I'll send the cylinder walls for analysis. Maybe someone can then tell me if I had used anything other than a FRAM or BMW filter, and could have made 320,000 miles, maybe I'll care, but not likely..............right now, I don't. Change filter and oil (syn or dino) at regular intervals and ride! End of story!

[russell_bynum]

...I stand behind my argument: Stop assuming that just because it says "BMW" on the box and costs more that it is better, or that buying something else that may be cheaper is somehow wrong.

 

The BMW brand oil doesn't cost any more - at least not from my sources here.

 

Filter-wise, I paid $11.XX ea last time, including crush washers. I expect the Mahles would have been less.

 

In any event, it beats the Grand Opening promotion at the newest H-D dealer that opened here last weekend. He's advertising a $90 oil change special. But that was for Genuine Motor Company oil and filter...so it must have been good stuff.

 

You're missing my point.

 

You said "Riding a BMW can be more costly than other choices in certain regards and we should all be mindful of where to cut costs when practical. However, saving a few cents on an oil filter just isn't one of those places to skimp. Buy the BMW brand filter and feel good knowing you've made the better choice."

 

I pointed out that you don't have any clue if it is the better choice or not. You just know that it says BMW on the box and costs more than the other choices.

 

For all you know, the other choices might be better AND cheaper. You're just blindly buying it because it says BMW on the side and assuming it is better.

[Jim Miller]

You're right again, Russ...I am missing your point. You have no idea what I know, and what I don't know, and in your role here, you shouldn't pretend to.

You can however, be confident in knowing that no meaningful exchange of helpful information was facilitated here. Nice work.

[russell_bynum]

You're right again, Russ...I am missing your point. You have no idea what I know, and what I don't know, and in your role here, you shouldn't pretend to.

You can however, be confident in knowing that no meaningful exchange of helpful information was facilitated here. Nice work.

 

 

If you have some knowledge about oil filters that you can add, by all means please do.

 

Your post didn't indicate anything other than we should just buy the expensive BMW filter and "Feel safe". With no facts to back that statement, it's just BS.

 

If you've got facts to back it, let's hear 'em! Please! I'm all about saving money, but not if it is going to screw up my bike.

 

If you've got info about why the BMW branded filter is better than the cheaper alternatives, including what the actual end-result of using a cheaper filter vs. a "BMW" filter would be, please share that info. i.e. "If you use a Purolator filter instead of a BMW filter, your engine will last 50,000 miles instead of 400,000 miles because the Purolator filter does A, B, and C worse than the BMW filter." That would be really good, useful info.

 

RightSpin, E30TECH, etc provided links to actual comparisons of different filters. That's meaningful and helpful information. "Pay more for the BMW filter and feel safe" isn't.